2024-01-01 00:02:47 minimal: oh ok thanks for clearing up that confusion! if i upgraded the kernel using apk add kernel.apk i noticed only the /boot/initramfs-lts was updated. i assume because apk found nothing changed in the vmlinuz-lts? thank you for your assistance! 2024-01-01 00:04:02 Tglmanprofile: the initramfs file is updated because it contains *some* kernel modules that are needed during boot (i.e to have access to the storage device containing roots, filesystem module etc) 2024-01-01 00:05:22 the /boot/vmlinuz-lts file is part of the linux-lts apk package and so if the package is updated then that file is 99.9999% likely to be updated 2024-01-01 00:06:46 you wouldn't update the kernel via "apk add kernel.apk" unl3ess kernel.apk is a custom-build kernel package you made, you'd use either linux-lts, or linux-virt, or linux-edge 2024-01-01 00:13:43 minimal: thanks for getting back so quickly. it is a custom kernel i am installing. i noticed the apk - after decompressing it- contains a file /boot/vmlinuz-lts .. so perhaps this will be updated on the next reboot? thanks once again 2024-01-01 00:21:57 The file is updated immediately, but isn't loaded until you boot or kexec. 2024-01-01 00:28:07 minimal: no its not part.of initramfs but having a mismatched kernel with initramfs might cause issues 2024-01-01 00:28:25 Happy New Year! 2024-01-01 00:33:32 Forza: yes it *would* cause problems like being unable to load the modules for the storage device containing the rootfs or the module for the rootfs type (ext4, xfs, etc) 2024-01-01 00:33:53 in which the rootfs wouldn't be mounted.........and so openrc wouldn't be run at all 2024-01-01 00:37:00 Well I don't know then. It worked when I fixed the kernel 2024-01-01 00:37:22 I am using direct boot with qemu, so maybe that played a role 2024-01-01 00:39:46 Happy new year Apachez 2024-01-01 00:52:28 zcrayfish: interesting. in my case the vmlinuz file is unchanged on disk after apk add kernel.apk and i am not sure why. if i will find out i'll let you know 2024-01-01 01:17:37 hey again. I'm having issues setting up pipewire on alpine. I added all the packages and have dbus configured to work(ish) with dwl. I added my user to video and audio, but I still get `connection refused` for everything. 2024-01-01 01:17:54 https://paste.sr.ht/~acsqdotme/23fec59c65ae213b259bbf1fa8dc23697a48c642 2024-01-01 01:18:24 here's the outputs of some commands. What is going wrong here? 2024-01-01 01:56:22 hi there, has anybody by chance worked with alpine linux for opengl/xwindow applications specifically on the raspberry pi zero (made in 2017) ? 2024-01-01 02:15:59 wungychungy333, if there is a question you would ask when somebody says 'yes' - just ask that question too 2024-01-01 02:18:25 ty Habbie, in that case, I am simply looking for an image or guide if someone has blazed that trail already. i mostly only have experience with ubuntu and raspberry pi os but for this system I am looking for something that only uses 40-100MB RAM at idle with xwindow/opengl 2024-01-01 02:19:52 that sounds like "install alpine and see" 2024-01-01 02:21:42 in my case, is it simply grab a prebuilt 32 bit arm image, burn it to an sd card and follow some prompts, or is it more involved than that? 2024-01-01 02:22:07 i have never run alpine on pi, so i'm not sure, but https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi looks simple enough 2024-01-01 02:22:08 more or less, https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi 2024-01-01 02:23:07 ty, i will give it a try. thanks and happy new year 2024-01-01 02:23:16 happy new year, and good luck :) 2024-01-01 08:05:38 cristian_c: by chance, you're running in bare metal and *NOT* inside a VM on the core 2 duo machine, right? 2024-01-01 08:06:45 zcrayfish, I tested alpine with *real* hardware, no VMs have been used 2024-01-01 08:07:55 zcrayfish, some days ago, I've emailed jakko, who has replied to me. After that, he has also joined the discussion into your bug report 2024-01-01 08:08:55 I plan to make some checks and then replying into that report too 2024-01-01 08:10:32 cool, I was 99% sure that was the case, but wanted to be 100%. 2024-01-01 08:10:35 Happy new year BTW! 2024-01-01 08:43:00 zcrayfish, in past, I already tried doas apk fix xf86-video-intel, unsuccessfully 2024-01-01 08:43:43 zcrayfish, I don't understand what you mean when you say: "The modesetting driver is pulled in as part of xorg-xorg-base these days and is the appropriate driver" 2024-01-01 08:44:08 zcrayfish, which xorg package you're talking about, exactly? 2024-01-01 08:46:06 I just see (through apk search): xorg-server, xorg-server-common, xorg-server-dbg, xorg-server-dev, xorg-server-doc, xorg-server-zephyr and xorg-server-xnest 2024-01-01 09:07:54 zcrayfish, interestingly (I don't know if that's related): when running doas Xorg -configure, I get in the middle of output: modprobe: FATAL: Module frbcon not found in directory /lib7modules/6.6.7-0-lts 2024-01-01 09:08:03 zcrayfish, interestingly (I don't know if that's related): when running doas Xorg -configure, I get in the middle of output: modprobe: FATAL: Module frbcon not found in directory /lib/modules/6.6.7-0-lts 2024-01-01 09:08:50 I also notice: List of video drivers: 2024-01-01 09:09:00 intel 2024-01-01 09:09:09 modesetting 2024-01-01 09:09:38 zcrayfish, but I've also checked in past that i915 is properly loaded 2024-01-01 09:10:27 *modprobe: FATAL: Module fbcon not found in directory /lib/modules/6.6.7-0-lts 2024-01-01 09:16:45 xf86-video-intel is obsolete. 2024-01-01 09:17:33 zcrayfish, I've found https://bbs.archlinux32.org/viewtopic.php?id=2785 2024-01-01 09:17:57 zcrayfish, btw, i don't know which xorg package you was talking about 2024-01-01 09:19:43 "xorg-xorg-base" was a typo for "setup-xorg-base" hehe. 2024-01-01 09:21:03 anyway the short story is installing LXQt exactly as indicated on the wiki should work just fine in both qemu and gen2-present Intel hardware (PowerVR models excepted) 2024-01-01 09:21:27 zcrayfish, yeah, I tried setup-xorg-base many times in past to fix the issues, unsuccessfully 2024-01-01 09:22:10 zcrayfish, I also tried to reinstall lxqt packages in past, unsuccessfully 2024-01-01 09:23:47 zcrayfish, do you mean https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/LXQt#Basic_LXQt_Desktop_Installation ? 2024-01-01 09:24:02 yep, that's the one 2024-01-01 09:30:07 zcrayfish, btw, fixing those packages doesn't allow to boot lxqt, again 2024-01-01 09:32:59 I'm pretty sure the issue is related to the way something is compiled on the x86 build or it's a bug (hence the bug report) as opposed to the way your system is setup. 2024-01-01 09:34:29 The only quick path forward I can see is for you to install the x86_64 build. 2024-01-01 09:34:31 zcrayfish, i suppose you've not fixed the issue in qemu too 2024-01-01 09:35:03 yeah, no dice there 2024-01-01 10:03:00 zcrayfish, I'm a little scare to reinstall the OS since configuring that has been a long journey (starting from adding a grub entry for alpine) 2024-01-01 10:06:24 zcrayfish, you've also said: "or doing a fresh install of 3.19.0 causes it to fail on x86 only" so installing a fresh 3.19 on x86 is not an option, I guess 2024-01-01 10:10:10 that's right, you'll run into the exact same issue 2024-01-01 10:37:46 cristian_c, do you have any .apk-new files in /etc? 2024-01-01 10:40:45 update-conf -l 2024-01-01 10:52:48 somercet, no 2024-01-01 10:53:01 hmm 2024-01-01 10:54:07 zcrayfish, I've run doas update-conf -l 2024-01-01 10:54:35 that just lists the files that somercet was asking about 2024-01-01 10:54:58 anyway, I verified that 15616 applies to edge as well... but I think everyone was expecting that. 2024-01-01 10:55:34 zcrayfish, no, no dot files in the output 2024-01-01 10:55:36 man, it's 6 am, night 2024-01-01 10:55:59 I get a list of //etc/... lines 2024-01-01 10:56:18 but nothing related to apk 2024-01-01 10:56:54 zcrayfish, btw, I'm running alpine stable 2024-01-01 10:58:11 (no edge branch enabled) 2024-01-01 10:59:53 yeah, I was hoping that the bug had been fixed already without anyone noticing, but no go. 2024-01-01 12:05:11 haloha 2024-01-01 12:25:51 https://paste.tnonline.net/files/UejbCMGIZ5Pn_Cat2023.jpg 2024-01-01 12:26:11 Here's hoping for a good 2024 2024-01-01 12:39:49 hmmm... cats' too like edge, should invite to do dev work 2024-01-01 12:40:50 Haha yes 2024-01-01 21:58:17 Hi... here is Offical Alpine-linux Matrix room? 2024-01-01 22:02:21 this is irc, not matrix 2024-01-01 22:02:51 ohh okay. 2024-01-01 22:04:09 i want know Alpine Linux Disto how settings LUKS2 (Argon2) Full device? 2024-01-01 22:04:52 Becuase i am compay use the computer i want encrypt 2024-01-01 22:05:03 *i in 2024-01-01 22:05:40 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Setting_up_encrypted_volumes_with_LUKS 2024-01-01 22:07:12 i want "LUKS2" not LuKS1 2024-01-01 22:07:31 But thanks for the guide... 2024-01-01 22:10:08 by default cryptsetup should default to luks2 2024-01-01 22:11:22 Oh my God thank you, I have a little question, can I use the secure boot feature on Alpine Linux Disto? 2024-01-01 22:13:25 if it doesnt default to luk2, its simply a switch on the command anyway 2024-01-01 22:14:45 ..... thanks 2024-01-01 22:33:47 totrototrotoro[m]: booting via GRUB? with Grub handling LUKS? 2024-01-01 22:41:50 totrototrototro[m]: ^^^ 2024-01-01 22:42:54 "totrototrotoro[m]: booting via..." <- yes GRUB 2024-01-01 22:43:19 But I want to have a UEFI safe boot 2024-01-01 22:47:04 GRUB currently in Alpine (2.06) does not correctly handle LUKSv2. The latest release (2.12) *does* and I raised a MR before Xmas for the Alpine package to be updated 2024-01-01 22:47:22 however Grub does *not* support Argon, only PBKDF2 2024-01-01 22:52:09 "GRUB currently in Alpine (2.06..." <- ........... 2024-01-01 22:52:25 ? 2024-01-01 22:52:37 But Argon2 is the most powerful encryption algorithm in the world 2024-01-01 22:52:49 *lol* 2024-01-01 22:52:58 It's the only algorithm I know, and it's reputable... 2024-01-01 22:53:01 you point is? Grub (upstream) doesn't support it... 2024-01-01 22:53:19 please feel free to contribute support to grub upstream for it 2024-01-01 22:53:26 if you want to write Argon support for Grub and submit it upstream then off you go 2024-01-01 22:54:04 Argon has been submitted at least once to the Grub devs in the past but they haven't yet added it for "reasons" 2024-01-01 22:54:17 It takes a master of code... I can't write code 2024-01-01 22:54:45 then you take what you can get 2024-01-01 22:55:31 Can I use a launcher other than Grub? support Argon2 2024-01-01 22:56:03 then don't use Grub's LUKS support, use an unencrypted /boot partition and then encrypt rootfs with LUKSv2 Argon 2024-01-01 22:56:36 if I use that solution, how do I enter the password when the disk boots 2024-01-01 22:56:50 initramfs will prompt for it 2024-01-01 22:57:25 in the same way that Grub's LVM support also prompts you to enter the passphrase during boot 2024-01-01 23:00:55 Thank you.... So no one can secretly use my computer at work 2024-01-01 23:01:25 says who? ;-) 2024-01-01 23:04:25 It's invincible because of Argon2 encryption 2024-01-01 23:05:07 ..........except for the small matter of /boot not being encrypted and so files there (e.g. initramfs) could be modified ;-) 2024-01-01 23:05:22 TPM2.0! 2024-01-01 23:05:31 my computer is support 2024-01-01 23:07:18 you mean for Grub to use TPM? you didn't ask that before 2024-01-01 23:07:26 also Alpine GRUB is not signed 2024-01-01 23:08:40 ... Can I sign it myself? 2024-01-01 23:09:30 minimal: I want to avoid Evil maid, I think so, but not through grub, because I need Argon2 2024-01-01 23:09:55 Check into a better class of hotel? ;-) 2024-01-01 23:11:08 I mean... Luks2(Argon2) and /boot partitions are protected using TPM2.0 2024-01-01 23:11:42 I have already told you Grub does NOT support Argon2 2024-01-01 23:11:59 yet to indicated you wanted to use Grub 2024-01-01 23:12:12 now you seem to be saying you want to use something other than Grub 2024-01-01 23:12:27 yes is i mean (encrypt rootfs with LUKSv2 Argon) 2024-01-01 23:12:40 with which bootloader? 2024-01-01 23:12:54 i don't know... 2024-01-01 23:15:10 As I recall, there are many faster grub alternatives 2024-01-01 23:15:35 Also supports btrfs... 2024-01-01 23:16:12 well then decide which bootloader you want to use 2024-01-01 23:17:08 grub2? 2024-01-01 23:17:28 ? you talked about grub alternatives 2024-01-01 23:17:35 yes 2024-01-01 23:17:48 so make your mind up 2024-01-01 23:17:59 I really need Argon2 Luks2 encryption 2024-01-01 23:18:11 yes i mind up 2024-01-01 23:20:00 I have a question, can I make encryption without reinstalling the system? 2024-01-01 23:20:44 which bootloader did you decide on? 2024-01-01 23:22:17 Grub2! 2024-01-01 23:22:33 is your /boot on a separate partition from rootfs? 2024-01-01 23:23:06 If possible, I would like to encrypt both into TPM2.0 2024-01-01 23:23:41 I don't know... 2024-01-01 23:23:54 you can't LUKS encrypt /boot using Argon with Grub, I've told you that several times now 2024-01-01 23:24:48 oh i'am sorry..... 2024-01-01 23:41:36 why are you wanting to encrypt your employer's computer? 2024-01-01 23:50:33 I have Diablo 4 on my computer that I play on, and a lot of Hifi music (copyrighted) and my browser, where I log in to gmail, where I have my credit card information, where I have my photos in my photo album, where my pgp and keepass are not encrypted, and where they are kept on my computer 2024-01-01 23:51:01 your own computer or your employer's computer? 2024-01-01 23:51:35 The employer... 2024-01-01 23:52:04 so you want to prevent your employer from being able to access one of their own computers? 2024-01-01 23:52:28 if your employer gave you a car to use would you change the car's locks to prevent your employer from having access to it? 2024-01-01 23:52:42 no.... 2024-01-01 23:54:19 So, it's wrong? ... 2024-01-01 23:54:36 well the computer belongs to your employer 2024-01-01 23:54:53 so they have the right to access it 2024-01-01 23:54:55 or peontially asking folks to aide you in "theft" in that you're taking away their rights to their property 2024-01-01 23:55:20 ....... 2024-01-01 23:55:21 if you don't like that then use a computer that you own 2024-01-01 23:56:19 But everyone in the office has their own computer password... 2024-01-01 23:56:29 most workplaces have a terms of use and an IT department/policy to consult and aide you if you align with their permitted use 2024-01-01 23:59:36 .......... 2024-01-02 00:00:51 They said that the equipment can only be used in the company, can not be taken out, and every three years a unified replacement of the equipment, the warranty period has expired 2024-01-02 00:06:03 So, should I buy my own laptop, which means I can use the company electricity for free? 2024-01-02 00:08:44 this is the strangest way i've ever seen of testing whether a variable is set. if [ "x$root" = "x" ]; then ... thanks for that, whoever contributed 'update-extlinux' ;) 2024-01-02 00:45:41 first off, it's their computer, they can do what they want. but it really depends on the industry i guess. i work with PHI, proprietary algorithms, designs that are not yet patented, etc. 2024-01-02 00:45:53 you better believe my work pc is encrypted 2024-01-02 00:46:13 Am I correct? 2024-01-02 00:47:22 I am not saying the computer shouldn't be encrypted, I am saying it should not be encrypted to lock out your employer/employer's IT department 2024-01-02 00:58:58 "I am not saying the computer..." <- Yes, it is legal to monitor employee's activity inside the working area of employer, but I think it is unwise to disturb employee's activity too deeply. Such as limiting the time an employee using bathroo 2024-01-02 00:59:42 I'm not talking about monitoring......I've thinking of situation where for example you are fired and they want access to the computer's contents 2024-01-02 01:01:07 it is typical for employers to supply you with an encrypted computer where their IT department also has a key to unlock the encrypted storage (whether for the above scenario or for where you forget the encryption passphrase and they can them unlock and set up a new passphrase for you, etc) 2024-01-02 01:02:04 well,as you are employed, the contents on the office computer is their property 2024-01-02 01:02:34 indeed, so then why do you want to lock your employer out of their property? 2024-01-02 01:03:32 also in many/most companies putting your own games and music etc on a company computer would be in breach of company IT policies 2024-01-02 01:03:40 this is to ensure that the employer always has the final say on your workstation 2024-01-02 01:34:06 Tglmanprofile: that's pretty standard for people that didn't grow up on newer shells (bash/zsh/fish/etc) 2024-01-02 03:53:21 some say one shouldn't admit errors, sothers say one should own the errors one make, and improve from them. i'm a supporter of the later. talking of that - all my problems i have been having has been of the PEBCAK type :D i had set my router to route 172.0.0.0 to my 10.42.0.0 network, did it as a tepmorary thing a while ago and forgot about it 2024-01-02 03:54:36 If one just bury errors i think one will end up like russia, it is said to be a normal thing to do in that hell hole 2024-01-02 05:18:47 Better to find a way to remove your relevant data from the employer laptop and find another system to "work on" 2024-01-02 05:19:33 It sucks, because employer-provided systems are never as good as or tailored to the employee as much as their personal systems, but, it does avoid the exact situation you're describing. 2024-01-02 06:55:09 oh, i didn't think of it that way, however it is all my personal computers at home 2024-01-02 06:55:53 and i'm refering to the problems i have been having for 2 weeks, looked at the wrong place 2024-01-02 06:56:55 finding problem takes longer than fixing the problem imho :) 2024-01-02 10:22:10 Hello, Is there a plan for packaging the kernel 6.7 (edge or stable) ? 2024-01-02 10:23:43 ahmadraniri[m]: linux-edge possible. The -lts kernel will keep tracking 6.6 until a new long term support kernel is declared 2024-01-02 10:25:31 ikke: Thanks, ikke. 2024-01-02 10:42:58 hey again. I'm having issues setting up pipewire on alpine. I added all the packages and have dbus configured to work(ish) with dwl. I added my user to video and audio, but I still get `connection refused` for everything. 2024-01-02 10:43:09 https://paste.sr.ht/~acsqdotme/23fec59c65ae213b259bbf1fa8dc23697a48c642 2024-01-02 10:43:19 here's the output of some commands. 2024-01-02 10:46:37 Is pipewire-pulse installed? Almost everything uses PA. 2024-01-02 10:51:49 it's installed. I have pipe-pulse, pipe-alsa, pipe-jack, even pipe-dev 2024-01-02 10:57:32 question from mastodon: after an upgrade, sway fails to run with: "Failed to create GLES2 renderer" https://fosstodon.org/@xarvos@outerheaven.club/111684151577308347 2024-01-02 10:57:39 and you ran pulse and wireplumber? 2024-01-02 10:59:17 deadbeef in alpine does not come with a PW or PA driver. I tried pulse-alsa but did not like the way it hid the ALSA mixer. 2024-01-02 11:02:29 https://paste.sr.ht/~acsqdotme/b25c9a4ca81e4bcbbbdb5fe91fb5cf919fa482f0 2024-01-02 11:02:44 hmmm, it says I'm missing something with logind. 2024-01-02 11:03:06 Does that mean I need to pull elogind as my login manager then? 2024-01-02 11:29:28 what is this 2024-01-02 11:29:49 first time login here . what is this 2024-01-02 11:32:28 This is the Alpine Linux irc channel. Alpine Linux is a Linux distribution (https://www.alpinelinux.org) 2024-01-02 11:38:14 acsqdotme, yes, you probably need elogind 2024-01-02 14:08:42 Hi 2024-01-02 14:08:54 What is Privacy Alpielinux browser? 2024-01-02 14:08:58 is gnome browser? 2024-01-02 14:09:55 Hi 2024-01-02 14:26:46 firefox with any number of privacy related addons? 2024-01-02 14:28:44 No 2024-01-02 14:28:55 i don't want Plugin or extension 2024-01-02 14:29:05 becuase Is not correect can privacy 2024-01-02 14:29:37 Erveroyne say Extensions no (WebCord) and GrapheneOS PRoject And Bromite github 2024-01-02 14:42:43 Hi 2024-01-02 14:42:57 Postmarket OS is alpine Linux? 2024-01-02 14:56:54 It's a separate project based on Alpine Linux 2024-01-02 15:05:40 Happy New Year from Germany. 2024-01-02 15:08:28 I have issues with cmd line editing. e.g. Ctrl-A doesn't work correctly. 2024-01-02 15:09:51 usuing bash, bash-completion and readline pkgs. 2024-01-02 15:12:14 also working via ssh from a devuan box. 2024-01-02 15:16:01 hey man 2024-01-02 15:16:02 how are you 2024-01-02 15:16:10 no problem 2024-01-02 15:16:18 may be you can to #debian 2024-01-02 15:16:24 becuase here no people 2024-01-02 15:16:39 Happy New Year from USA too 2024-01-02 15:18:42 thank you anyway 2024-01-02 15:19:08 daadm: is this via a console or terminal emulator? 2024-01-02 15:19:26 or just ssh? 2024-01-02 15:20:14 Sleepywattl: See topic... 2024-01-02 15:22:10 it's just ssh root@machine fro a normal user using an xfce4-terminal 2024-01-02 15:23:31 strange. works for me on Alpine Edge from Linux Mint on xfce4-terminal 2024-01-02 15:25:15 via ssh 2024-01-02 15:26:02 Thanks anyway. I thoungt i'm missing out on something 2024-01-02 15:33:30 just checked : x-terminal-emulator is set to lxterminal. Does it make a difference? 2024-01-02 15:34:07 sorry for mis-infotmation. 2024-01-02 15:35:15 same results here, works fine on lxterminal 2024-01-02 15:37:03 thanks everyone have to say bye for now. 2024-01-02 16:14:47 Client: HexChat 2.16.0 • OS: Ubuntu "jammy" 22.04 • CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4,01GHz) • Memory: 7,8 GiB Total (5,4 GiB Free) • Storage: 9,8 GB / 12,1 GB (2,3 GB Free) • Uptime: 3d 13h 37m 1s 2024-01-02 16:14:55 oops 2024-01-02 16:15:14 that was some builtin function of Hexchat 2024-01-02 16:19:04 test 2024-01-02 16:24:56 "that was some builtin function..." <- how find it? 2024-01-02 16:25:02 i want try 2024-01-02 16:36:31 Client: HexChat 2.16.0 • OS: Ubuntu "jammy" 22.04 • CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4,01GHz) • Memory: 7,8 GiB Total (5,3 GiB Free) • Storage: 9,8 GB / 12,1 GB (2,3 GB Free) • Uptime: 3d 13h 58m 46s 2024-01-02 16:36:52 in the menues, Window/send system info 2024-01-02 16:37:25 Client: HexChat 2.16.0 • OS: Ubuntu "jammy" 22.04 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3320M CPU @ 2.60GHz (1,20GHz) • Memory: Physical: 7,4 GiB Total (4,1 GiB Free) Swap: 2,0 GiB Total (1,5 GiB Free) • Storage: 23,7 GB / 172,0 GB (148,2 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 5d 14h 6m 13s 2024-01-02 16:39:43 when i think of it we probably should send such messages in the channel #alpine-offtopic 2024-01-02 16:47:22 or not at all? 2024-01-02 17:45:47 but my hexchat no in the menues, Window/send system info 2024-01-02 17:46:08 only save text and search on other 2024-01-02 17:55:51 It's been years since I used HexChat, but if I remember correctly that was a plugin/extension; which means it's possible to have HexChat without it. 2024-01-02 19:33:59 zcrayfish, any news? 2024-01-02 19:34:50 Nothing, I messed around with it a few hours last night to see if there was another path forward for you (other than waiting) but didn't have any luck. 2024-01-02 19:35:14 upgrading to edge has no effect since that qt5 shared library which seems to be the issue is the exact same version there 2024-01-02 19:36:03 I tried doing a downgrade (to 3.18.5) but sddm failed to start; but I have not looked into why yet. 2024-01-02 19:53:05 zcrayfish, so, have you not found useful suggestions by jakko? 2024-01-02 19:53:59 zcrayfish, I've made a minimal alpine 3.19 installation but i was not able to boot that since I can't update grub (from another os) after creating grub entry for alpine 2024-01-03 01:33:33 hi 2024-01-03 01:33:37 everyone hi 2024-01-03 01:34:06 can i ask a questions? 2024-01-03 01:34:08 why here no people 2024-01-03 01:34:47 asking permission to ask a question is still asking a question 2024-01-03 01:34:53 might as well just skip to the real question 2024-01-03 01:34:58 #alpine-offtopic ? 2024-01-03 01:35:21 oh i like your idea 2024-01-03 01:35:44 if i use alpine Linux VPN is SSL? 2024-01-03 01:36:05 becuase everyone tell me VPN = SSL 2024-01-03 01:36:16 it depends on the type of VPN you are using, not the Linux distribution 2024-01-03 01:36:24 there are SSL VPNs, there is IPsec, there are also others 2024-01-03 01:37:01 so alpine Linux support GNU? 2024-01-03 01:37:15 i want sue init + no support GNU 2024-01-03 01:37:31 init or OpenRC is BEST 2024-01-03 01:37:56 if you want to avoid glibc, and a lot of the GNU userland, then Alpine is a good choice of distro 2024-01-03 01:38:15 good i know 2024-01-03 01:38:32 but i can use alpine bubllewarp? 2024-01-03 01:38:40 +APParrmor 2024-01-03 01:39:00 someone else will have to answer that one, I don't know 2024-01-03 01:40:01 thanks you ok if i want hardened alpine sh script (Hardened Kenerl and other) 2024-01-03 01:40:04 where i can find? 2024-01-03 01:41:25 i want in alpine linux use sway wm 2024-01-03 01:46:20 should not be difficult, what is the problem 2024-01-03 01:46:38 sway is a wayland compositor 2024-01-03 01:47:14 i know 2024-01-03 01:47:59 do you think sway vs xfce good? 2024-01-03 01:48:09 xfce say they is lite + safe 2024-01-03 01:48:23 buy only x11 2024-01-03 02:25:33 does anyone know how to set the cursor theme for wayland firefox in alpine 2024-01-03 02:25:56 i can set gtk3 app cursors through writing to a buch of files 2024-01-03 02:29:37 Would y’all be interested in an immutable/container focused variant of Alpine? 2024-01-03 04:12:16 Hey LMAO 2024-01-03 05:24:07 chexo4[m]: I already use something like that, my root is mounted as overlaytmpfs and to add or upgrade packages I have a script that creates a snapshot, chroots into it and applies the changes once I exit the chroot 2024-01-03 07:49:26 hi, could it be possible to have an alpine in diskless mode and still have some of the heaviest packages, like chrome, installed on disk to avoid using too much ram? 2024-01-03 07:57:05 you want everything except what's required to run chrome in RAM? 2024-01-03 08:02:41 "Would y’all be interested in..." <- https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Immutable_root_with_atomic_upgrades 2024-01-03 08:04:47 fluix, chrome and other big packages, for example latex etc. 2024-01-03 08:05:07 but you don't want a sys install because? 2024-01-03 08:07:08 fluix, I have a computer that randomly corrupts data, I have not been able to pinpoint the cause. diskless install gives me peace of mind for the base system 2024-01-03 08:08:01 oookay then 2024-01-03 08:08:39 not exactly sure of any good solution, most of the "base" system you're thinking of already doesn't get written to so writes shouldn't mess it up 2024-01-03 08:08:47 *you might be thinking of 2024-01-03 08:08:57 perhaps others have good ideas 2024-01-03 08:13:25 fluix, things can get messed up during upgrades, when packages are extracted to disk and it's not easy to detect corruption of the extracted files. 2024-01-03 08:13:54 doesn't apk audit check all package files? 2024-01-03 08:14:27 also yes, but that would be the case for a diskless install too when you commit updates (unless you're never committing updates?) 2024-01-03 08:15:35 yeah it looks like you want apk audit --system 2024-01-03 08:15:40 I do commit, but the corruption would be limited to the config, which is easy to check by diffing a backup 2024-01-03 08:15:59 checking 2024-01-03 08:17:52 fluix, it really seems to do what I want! 2024-01-03 08:18:10 nice! gl until you fix your disc :) 2024-01-03 08:19:57 fluix, thanks, I have no idea what that is, I never have problems in windows, and it happens like every other day on linux 2024-01-03 08:20:39 that's scary. I would look into what your disk says if it supports smartctl 2024-01-03 08:21:06 also what kind of drive is it and what filesystem? 2024-01-03 08:21:28 (just curious tbh, I don't think I could help and I'm off to bed soon) 2024-01-03 08:21:31 yes, smartctl says everything is fine, I also did read/write tests of random gigabytes of data, no issue detected there 2024-01-03 08:21:51 it's an nvme 2024-01-03 08:22:23 ooh those are cool. my laptop's connector/driver crashes every once in a while leaving me unable to write for 30 seconds :p 2024-01-03 08:22:35 anyways gl, nn o/ 2024-01-03 08:22:41 sure, thanks again 2024-01-03 08:22:42 dmesg might say something 2024-01-03 08:22:47 nw :) 2024-01-03 08:24:04 btw I guess checksums for all installed files are stored somewhere, do you know where? 2024-01-03 08:35:45 I think might be related to a mystery about diskless installations, how can apk know which version of a package to install when there is more than one version available in the cache? Does it just list all the files and pick the one that has the highest version number? 2024-01-03 10:52:44 Hello. How can I get access to brcmfmac power management? If my wifi is handled by wpa_supplicant + networkmanager, can i install additional software and use iwconfig command? 2024-01-03 11:10:52 iwconfig? but brcmfmac isn't a WEXT driver, is it 2024-01-03 11:11:19 nmcli con modify "Home" wifi.powersave 2024-01-03 11:11:25 iw wlan0 set power_save off 2024-01-03 11:30:09 i tried iw wlan0 set power_save off 2024-01-03 11:30:28 and iw dev wlan0 get power_save 2024-01-03 11:30:39 it indeed approves that the setting was changed 2024-01-03 11:30:47 but i see no result in performance 2024-01-03 11:30:59 all people say there must be very good difference in performance 2024-01-03 11:31:18 probably networkmanager somehow change the setting being set? 2024-01-03 11:31:19 it mainly makes a difference for inbound connections to the wifi device 2024-01-03 11:31:23 not so much for outbound 2024-01-03 11:32:04 how do i change for both? 2024-01-03 11:32:40 you don't 2024-01-03 11:32:45 for nmcli i need set 2? 2024-01-03 11:32:54 # nmcli con modify "OpenWrt" wifi.powersave 2 2024-01-03 11:32:55 ? 2024-01-03 11:33:00 I think so, yeah 2024-01-03 11:33:41 i also found the recommendation to create this one: # cat /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/wifi-powersave-off.conf 2024-01-03 11:33:42 if I remember correctly, 2024-01-03 11:33:52 [connection] 2024-01-03 11:33:52 # Values are 0 (use default), 1 (ignore/don't touch), 2 (disable) or 3 (enable). 2024-01-03 11:33:54 power_save has no effect on "performance"; it has an effect on latency 2024-01-03 11:33:55 wifi.powersave = 2 2024-01-03 11:34:25 what i read is https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Nokia_N900_(nokia-n900)#Power_saving_/_ping_times 2024-01-03 11:34:57 yes, but in my experience it's mostly *inbound* ping to the device 2024-01-03 11:35:13 that's what i try to replicate on another target https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=mnC9NSNst6k "WiFi problem fix Samsung Galaxy S3" 2024-01-03 11:35:20 they say turn off power save mode 2024-01-03 11:35:25 but they show in android 2024-01-03 11:35:32 and i have postmarketOS, which is alpine linux 2024-01-03 11:37:21 anything else that i might try? that could be such "switching wifi power save mode off" from android? 2024-01-03 12:27:14 I am more used to Debian and how updates work with it and was wondering, is Alpine apk also create files to notify (/var/run/reboot-required and /var/run/reboot-required.pkgs) that an OS reboot is required? Or if something similar exist? 2024-01-03 13:00:14 hello, I discovered ACF (the config framework). I see there is a module for iptables. Is there something for nftables too? 2024-01-03 13:17:02 Kane_: Not that I know of. 2024-01-03 13:18:04 I have my updates automatically scripted and I compare "uname -r" vs "file -bL /boot/vmlinuz-virt | sed 's/.*version //;s/ .*//'" to see if the kernel has been updated (and thus schedule a reboot) 2024-01-03 13:19:36 oh, that's a good idea and an easy one to add onto an ansible update process, thanks zcrayfish :) 2024-01-03 13:22:38 no problem! I really need to update my update script though in case I move that machine to a different kernel. hehe 2024-01-03 13:23:39 probably something like vmlinuz-$(uname -r | awk -F \- '{print $NF }') hahahaha 2024-01-03 13:25:07 @cristian_c: looks like your bug got squashed. 2024-01-03 14:31:45 LMAFO 2024-01-03 14:31:48 hey 2024-01-03 14:31:52 do you like alpine linux? 2024-01-03 14:39:57 yes 2024-01-03 14:43:04 and to answer your further questions: it doesn't use GNU libc, but you can use plenty of other GNU stuff on it; yes, it's a pretty good distro for a variety of purposes; you can download an ISO from https://alpinelinux.org/downloads/ 2024-01-03 14:55:52 We have a funky issue on some alpine boxes and I was wondering if anyone else has seen it before: 2024-01-03 14:56:31 Some boxes sometime lose a static IPv6 address on eth0, even though accept_ra=1 and forwarding=1, so RAs should not play a role 2024-01-03 14:57:19 And it seems to happen "randomly", as in every few weeks or so 2024-01-03 14:57:20 What network manager(s) do you use? 2024-01-03 14:57:50 None, it's just added in /etc/network/interfaces 2024-01-03 14:58:15 ifupdown-ng is installed 2024-01-03 14:58:24 Also make sure that the links don't go down, IPv6 addresses don't persist on link changes unless net/ipv6/conf/$IFACE/keep_addr_on_down=1 2024-01-03 14:58:42 uhh...could that be it 2024-01-03 14:59:06 [764037.425900] igb 0000:07:00.0 eth0: igb: eth0 NIC Link is Up 1000 Mbps Full Duplex, Flow Control: RX 2024-01-03 14:59:08 hmm 2024-01-03 14:59:22 ifupdown doesn't do hotplugging so it won't reconfigure on link/hw changes 2024-01-03 14:59:40 even tough eth0 should be up all the time, it's directly connected to the switch 2024-01-03 14:59:59 some switches lose links temporarily during reconfiguration 2024-01-03 15:00:17 if you can correlate those together, then that's your problem 2024-01-03 15:00:29 otherwise it's indeed something weird 2024-01-03 15:00:42 and needs more debugging 2024-01-03 15:01:17 hm, no. Just checked and the most recent box that experienced it has 8 days uptime and just a single "link up" message in dmesg 2024-01-03 15:02:34 hmm, odd 2024-01-03 15:02:43 I also checked for rogue udhcp / dhcpcd processes, but nothing like that is running 2024-01-03 15:03:01 this machine does no routing, right? 2024-01-03 15:03:04 aka forwarding 2024-01-03 15:03:11 it does do routing 2024-01-03 15:03:14 Quite a bit actually 2024-01-03 15:03:37 if you have forwarding enabled then it will not accept ra 2024-01-03 15:03:55 https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/networking/ip-sysctl.html 2024-01-03 15:03:59 See accept_ra 2024-01-03 15:04:21 there maybe is a race condition and it manages to accept the first ra before forwarding is enabled 2024-01-03 15:04:28 and then cannot renew it 2024-01-03 15:05:08 Interesting theory 2024-01-03 15:05:21 I've seen everything ;) 2024-01-03 15:05:37 If that was true, it should not lose its IPv6 address twice 2024-01-03 15:05:58 Because once it lost it, we manually restart it, after forwarding is on 2024-01-03 15:06:06 How do you enable forwarding? 2024-01-03 15:06:13 or restart it exactly 2024-01-03 15:06:16 via /etc/sysctl.d 2024-01-03 15:06:57 we have net.ipv6.conf.all.forwarding=1 and net.ipv6.conf.eth0.accept_ra=1 in /etc/sysctl.d/99-Z-sysctl-cdist.conf 2024-01-03 15:07:46 Trying to see if sysctl is started before or after networking 2024-01-03 15:08:03 err 2024-01-03 15:08:10 Seems to be before 2024-01-03 15:08:21 networking wasn't enabled at all, so it must have been pulled in by something as a side effect 2024-01-03 15:08:59 Probably by / via chronyd 2024-01-03 15:09:21 Does rc-status show services in the order they are usually started? 2024-01-03 15:09:37 Because chronyd is listed before sysctl and if my theory is correct that would have triggered networking before sysctl 2024-01-03 15:10:20 I don't think so 2024-01-03 15:12:39 But your race condition hint might be a very good direction...I'll check if that server loses its ipv6 address again in the future 2024-01-03 15:13:00 try to see if it's correlated with the address lifetime 2024-01-03 15:13:52 but yeah in general if you have both accept_ra=1 and forwarding=1 then you shouldn't even have the RAs installed by the kernel 2024-01-03 15:14:47 so if your 2nd box doesn't do RAs itself then it should be safe to set accept_ra to 2 2024-01-03 15:14:53 otherwise you could have a routing loop 2024-01-03 15:15:43 oh wait, i'm thinking wrong 2024-01-03 15:15:49 it's a static addr 2024-01-03 15:15:50 my bad 2024-01-03 15:17:33 ignore all related to RAs, i've confused forwarding with RAs 2024-01-03 15:18:48 Hey dude 2024-01-03 15:22:09 Okay so to backtrace, there's no link fluctuations and only ifupdown acts as a network manager, yet the address disappears even though it has no lifetime, right? 2024-01-03 15:22:56 Is there the possibility of a address collision? I'm not sure but it could be possible that the kernel refuses to use a address if it's already responding via NDP 2024-01-03 15:23:22 So once it notices the link has a 2nd address that's the same it uninstalls it 2024-01-03 15:25:01 https://linuxconfig.org/i2p-anonymity-for-the-masses 2024-01-03 15:25:04 Alpine use i2p? 2024-01-03 15:28:30 caskd: I'm not sure if it disappears because there is no lifetime - we have a bit of a quirk 2024-01-03 15:28:30 Alpine i have 2560 package 2024-01-03 15:28:50 The quirk being: we use static addr in /etc/network/interfaces 2024-01-03 15:28:53 i used to run alpine with gnome under 450 package 2024-01-03 15:29:01 However the address itself is the same as the one it would get from RAs 2024-01-03 15:29:05 And there are RAs in the network 2024-01-03 15:29:27 Why we do this? Because originally all hosts in the network were using RAs, even the routers on the primary interface 2024-01-03 15:29:53 So some things like the kubernetes control point configuration are fixed to that specific address, that we changed from retrieved via RA to be static 2024-01-03 15:30:49 Do you have access to any of the hosts right now? Mind checking if they have a lifetime or not? 2024-01-03 15:30:58 I was just doing that :-) 2024-01-03 15:31:10 All of them have: valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 2024-01-03 15:31:47 what about the routes? ip -6 route 2024-01-03 15:32:11 the routes... there are a couple of hundred thousands... 2024-01-03 15:32:15 oh dang 2024-01-03 15:32:17 uhh 2024-01-03 15:32:22 try filtering for the default 2024-01-03 15:32:26 Those are routers with full tables 2024-01-03 15:32:36 And there is no default route for that reason 2024-01-03 15:32:55 v 2024-01-03 15:32:57 ip -6 route show proto kernel 2024-01-03 15:32:58 ip -6 r | wc -l -> 194147 2024-01-03 15:33:10 uh, nice one 2024-01-03 15:33:53 there is no lifetime on them, just metric 256 + pref medium 2024-01-03 15:34:17 well, that is something good but it means the problem is somewhere else 2024-01-03 15:34:21 which isn't great 2024-01-03 15:34:40 I think your original theory might still be valid 2024-01-03 15:34:59 the host boots, accepts an address via RA 2024-01-03 15:35:01 then it sets forwarding=1, accept_ra=1 2024-01-03 15:35:11 then sets the static address, which probably fails, as it is already set via RA 2024-01-03 15:35:16 the accept_ra=1 is a noop if forwarding=1 2024-01-03 15:35:26 true 2024-01-03 15:35:33 but yeah 2024-01-03 15:35:38 We set it explicit, because all k8s workers have accept_ra=2 2024-01-03 15:35:54 they do forwarding, but use the ipv6 address as distributed by the routers 2024-01-03 15:36:34 well, you should check if the others caught a ra and use that by chance 2024-01-03 15:36:56 and if it still happens then i'm quite surprised because i ran out of ideas 2024-01-03 15:37:06 you know what..I can reboot one of the routers, they are all active-active 2024-01-03 15:37:43 To see if / what is being set at boot 2024-01-03 15:39:01 !!!! 2024-01-03 15:39:09 valid_lft 86390sec preferred_lft 14390sec 2024-01-03 15:39:14 there it is 2024-01-03 15:39:20 caskd: I owe you a drink! 2024-01-03 15:39:43 thanks, let's have a chat and a drink sometime! 2024-01-03 15:39:58 Where are you located at? 2024-01-03 15:40:03 near NUE, Germany 2024-01-03 15:40:17 Ah, I just passed there some days, went from Hannover -> Glarus 2024-01-03 15:42:58 So the question is, how to properly fix that. Given that networking is also just a side effect due to chrony loading 2024-01-03 15:43:10 In theory what I want is first sysctl -> then networking 2024-01-03 15:43:26 you could have a pre-up on the interface 2024-01-03 15:43:33 that sets the respective systctls 2024-01-03 15:43:50 Uh, nice 2024-01-03 15:47:06 ok, I tested if I a) add networking to rc-update -> nothing changes (somewhat good, stuff is consistent) 2024-01-03 15:47:28 and b) if I add a different address that is NOT the one that would have been received by RA, it actually stays forever: 2024-01-03 15:47:45 inet6 2a0a:e5c0:10:1::121/64 scope global -> valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 2024-01-03 15:47:45 great 2024-01-03 15:48:01 vs.: inet6 2a0a:e5c0:10:1:3eec:efff:fecb:fea6/64 scope global -> valid_lft 86368sec preferred_lft 14368sec 2024-01-03 15:48:12 So I got to do some k8s reconfigurations to be done... brr.. 2024-01-03 15:48:28 But probably making sense anyway, using the RA assigned address as a static one is kind of a hack 2024-01-03 15:53:00 not really, makes sense, especially for a router that used to use RAs and still is critical 2024-01-03 15:53:22 it's just that this chain of events caused by a race condition is not fun to follow :) 2024-01-03 15:57:55 While updating the kernel, GRUB gives some sort-errors. Is this just trying to sort the ouput? https://termbin.com/rooi 2024-01-03 16:19:25 telmich: you can edit /etc/rc.conf and change/set "rc_logger=YES" and then as each service is started during boot this is logged in order to /var/log/rc.log 2024-01-03 16:33:16 caskd[m]: the sysctl docs specifically mention global addresses so I assume that any ULAs are unaffected when the link goes down 2024-01-03 16:40:46 ham5urg: looks like something isn't right with your Grub config 2024-01-03 16:42:10 minimal, I tinkered with Xen / GRUB_CMDLINE_XEN_DEFAULT, but it is correct. 2024-01-03 16:44:15 hey all.. I'm thinking this is an OpenRC question.. how to get a program to log date/time information.. 2024-01-03 16:44:16 ham5urg: from the output you posted the generated grub.cfg contains at least 2 (or more) entries for Alpine, which tends to point to some sort of configuration issue 2024-01-03 16:44:58 CoreDNS logs to /var/log/coredns/coredns.log but that log has no date/time info in it.. and can't find anything in coredns that shows there is a way for the daemon to generate date/time .. 2024-01-03 16:45:02 minimal, yes, Linux and Xen kernel. 2024-01-03 16:45:13 But it works so I don't want to bother much. 2024-01-03 16:46:13 ham5urg: the grub-mkconfig output you posted doesn't mention Xen... 2024-01-03 16:47:38 I'm not familiar with Xen, it is just adding an additional Grub menu item referencing the same kernel/initramfs files? 2024-01-03 16:48:32 minimal, that's true but I did not touched except GRUB_DEFAULT=1 (to boot Xen as default) and GRUB_CMDLINE_XEN_DEFAULT="dom0_mem=min:512M,max:512M dom0_max_vcpus=1 dom0_vcpus_pin xen-pciback.hide=(00:02.0)" 2024-01-03 16:48:32 No, Xen is an kernel itself which loads the Linux-Kernel which loads its initramfs. 2024-01-03 16:48:32 > I'm not familiar with Xen, it is just adding an additional Grub menu item referencing the same kernel/initramfs files? 2024-01-03 16:49:18 I can post whichever file if you like. 2024-01-03 16:50:10 wel the sort error is likely coming from /usr/share/grub/grub-mkconfig_lib which is called by grub-mkconfig 2024-01-03 16:50:56 as to why the error is happening, no idea as it it likely depends on the precise configuration on your machine 2024-01-03 16:56:02 That to debug is not worth in my eyes. But I can file a bug report if I would know how? I could write directly to the maintainer https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/diff/main/grub/APKBUILD?id=cfa0dd82bcfc8ce50380dadfc571022ced224fda 2024-01-03 16:56:46 Aha 2024-01-03 16:57:33 if someone else cannot reproduce your issue then it will be hard to investigate 2024-01-03 17:01:25 I just rebooted the machine and the GRUB-menu was right. I believe that issue occurs just at giving output to the terminal. Not at generating the GRUB config. 2024-01-03 17:06:48 Guest12731: coredns specifically removed date/time from its logs. One solution is to modify the Alpine coredns init.d file to send output to syslog (which then will add date/time and can be configured to write to a file) rather than a file directly 2024-01-03 17:09:15 minimal: I've added runit for the time being.. I couldn't find the service other than supervise-daemon that might be writing logs.. but yes syslog would work.. 2024-01-03 17:11:22 Guest12731: I meant to keep supervise-daemon but change the "--stdout" and "--stderr" options in the init.d file to use "--stdout-logger" and "--srderr-logger" instead, specifying "logger ..." as the argument for them 2024-01-03 17:17:53 I was trying to find an example.. but replacing --stdout with --stdout-logger and restarting.. didn't produce any logs.. (if that is what you exatly meant.. ) 2024-01-03 17:18:16 How can I check if https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/commit/?id=cfa0dd82bcfc is already in GRUB of Alpine_3.18 ? 2024-01-03 17:31:08 Guest12731: as I explained "--stdout-logger" required an argument telling the program to run 2024-01-03 17:31:52 I suggest using logger (with its arguments) as that 2024-01-03 18:45:01 Hi, I'm curious about the status of OpenRC in alpine linux. On different websites I'm reading that Alpine might be considering a switch to s6-rc at some point. Is this true? Is there any discussion on the topic on a forum or mailing list I can follow? 2024-01-03 18:45:17 Or is it just the idea some unrelated developer had that isn't materializing anytime soon 2024-01-03 18:47:06 mid-kid: the (upstream) s6 developer is working on functionality that will enable Alpine to switch. Timescales are basically "when it's done" 2024-01-03 18:48:02 s/switch/switch or be able to use either OpenRC or s6/ 2024-01-03 18:50:05 What do the alpine developers themselves think about this? Is there some form of consensus or will it be proposed when it's done? 2024-01-03 18:50:29 Or is there just too little to talk about yet 2024-01-03 18:51:49 well what's the point of talking about something that is not yet in place? 2024-01-03 18:52:38 Fair enough. It just also feels like a waste to work on something that has no chance of making it in :) 2024-01-03 18:52:52 But I guess in this case the s6 developer wants to work on the functionality anyway 2024-01-03 18:53:04 you could ask him... 2024-01-03 18:53:06 Thanks for the context 2024-01-03 18:53:19 there is a #s6 channel 2024-01-03 18:53:54 Ah, I might check that out. Thanks! 2024-01-03 19:24:44 unless they are going to make s6 consume openrc files, that's a lot of work adding init scripts to every APKBUILD that has them 2024-01-03 19:28:03 iggy: indeed. It is also why the openrc scripts are packages as a separate sub-package which is only pulled in as openrc is installed. 2024-01-03 19:28:36 there could then be also a s6 subpackage to be pulled in in the other scenario 2024-01-03 19:28:55 are there any packages that package anything other than openrc init scripts? (just curious if that's a thing or not) 2024-01-03 19:29:07 not currently AFAIK 2024-01-03 19:45:45 Hey i am back~ 2024-01-03 19:45:54 EVERYONE BRO 2024-01-03 19:46:06 RUNIT + OPEN-RC VS alpine linux what IS BEST!? 2024-01-03 19:46:21 I don't like systemd becuase that is spy 2024-01-03 19:47:22 [citation needed] 2024-01-03 20:03:34 sounds like troll 2024-01-03 20:10:32 Ermine yes 2024-01-03 20:10:44 indeed 2024-01-03 20:11:22 it's been some time since it's trolling no matrix admin? 2024-01-03 20:11:38 Guess it's abusing HE 6to4 too 2024-01-03 20:11:42 ACTION yawns. 2024-01-03 20:21:22 HE 6to4? 2024-01-03 20:26:46 if discord have admin can kick? 2024-01-03 20:26:59 IRC bridge i know can kick matrix 2024-01-03 20:28:17 scorpion2185[m]: a service provided by Hurricane Electric 2024-01-03 20:28:48 by the way i not use translate if i use everyone think not good 2024-01-03 20:34:36 your English skills certainly are not good 2024-01-03 20:38:17 Ermine: yes bad english 2024-01-03 20:38:27 i want update it 2024-01-03 20:38:55 if i use translate have people say me is troller 2024-01-03 20:39:00 or AI 2024-01-03 20:39:13 so i not use translate is good idea option 2024-01-03 20:58:20 What is the move to apk3 currently preventing? Or could it be possible to create an apk3 package in testing? 2024-01-03 21:00:17 you mean what is preventing the move to apk3? (opposite of what you wrote) ;-) 2024-01-03 21:00:31 No, since the builders will only create APKv2 packages 2024-01-03 21:00:52 (to answer your last question) 2024-01-03 21:00:58 minimal: yes, got the wording a bit wrong 2024-01-03 21:01:02 We did discuss it briefly at the last TSC meeting. 2024-01-03 21:01:14 ikke: as far as I know apk3 supports the apk2 format 2024-01-03 21:03:43 I misunderstood your last suggestion 2024-01-03 21:03:54 Yes, apkv3 should support v2 packages 2024-01-03 21:04:13 But apkv3 atm cannot be installed at the same time as apkv2 (need to be namespaced) 2024-01-03 21:04:58 2 system wide package managers are always a bad idea xD 2024-01-03 21:07:09 The new package / index format are considered a bit of a drawback (no longer possible to untar an apk file to install a package on a non-alpine system (ie, for bootstrapping or something) 2024-01-03 21:09:48 Can't apk be bootstrapped without an alpine system? So using apk -p to bootstrap alpine 2024-01-03 21:10:21 bootstrapping a chroot, not bootstrapping apk itself 2024-01-03 21:10:50 (I'd use apk.static for that myself) 2024-01-03 21:11:03 But apk -p to bootstrap alpine still works? 2024-01-03 21:11:58 I suppose it still works 2024-01-03 21:12:08 Nice, thanks! 2024-01-03 21:13:41 But that's besides the point. People can (and are) currently directly working with apk files using tar (I sometimes use it to inspect or extract single files). With apkv3, it requires apk itself to do that. 2024-01-03 21:16:38 I did that too. But there are options in apk3 that I really want to try 2024-01-03 22:38:28 scorpion2185[m]: Look at the IP address. 2024-01-03 22:48:55 Would I get Alpine to run on https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813140134 ? It is listed as RHEL aarch64 compatible https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=ALTRAD8UD-1L2T#Specifications 2024-01-03 22:49:01 sertonix[m]: we were thinking about setting up a single edge builder with apkv3 2024-01-03 22:59:53 tbf apkv3 is still quite lacking 2024-01-03 23:00:06 for me it's mostly the documentation part 2024-01-03 23:01:00 as in, i can run the apkv3 commands like `mkpkg` but help doesn't have them, nor do the manpages 2024-01-03 23:01:57 and it took a while reading through source to learn about mkndx and adbdump 2024-01-03 23:19:03 if a 3rd party repository has the same package and version as an upstream repo, is there a way to make apk prefer the 3rd party repo? 2024-01-03 23:33:57 repository pinning? 2024-01-03 23:36:16 more on that here: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Package_Keeper#Repository_pinning 2024-01-03 23:40:21 iggy: why would they both have the same version (including pkgrel) if they're different contents? 2024-01-03 23:53:09 because otherwise I have to constantly stay 1 r ahead instead of just rebuilding packages 2024-01-03 23:56:48 repository pinning isn't ideal because then I have to specify the repository for everything from that repo, but that may be the least bad option (I'll just probably have to split up my repo to have dupe packages in one that has a "tag" and the other stuff in a separate repo) 2024-01-03 23:59:34 iggy: different contents should/must have different versioning...as they are obviously not the same thing 2024-01-04 00:00:20 no *I'm* Sparticus! 2024-01-04 00:00:42 to add a little extra flavor to my question, I'm slowly building out a set of packages that are just rebuilds of the upstream apk's with lto and -march=x86-64-v3 2024-01-04 00:01:06 Fascinating. 2024-01-04 00:01:47 so they aren't different in that they are built using the same APKBUILD/patches/etc, just slightly different CFLAGS 2024-01-04 00:02:24 and they're not linked with libs in other packages? 2024-01-04 00:04:50 they should be linked the same as upstream (built using a clean container for each package) 2024-01-04 00:05:47 iggy: not linked to your alternative lto/march compiled lib packages? 2024-01-04 00:08:27 well, anything that's dynamically linked will use whichever libc/etc is installed, but no, I don't install the lto/march'ed libs when building packages 2024-01-04 00:09:05 I don't actually have anything in my repo's that's statically linked currently 2024-01-04 00:09:20 iggy: I'm referring to *dynamically* linked 2024-01-04 00:10:24 so when you "apk add" your lto/march-ed app packages I assume you want them to install the lto-march-ed packages of any lib dependancies 2024-01-04 00:10:41 yeah, the environment they are built in is just upstream alpine packages 2024-01-04 00:11:07 just any that are in my repo 2024-01-04 00:12:24 and no "otherwise I have to constantly stay 1 r ahead" not necessarily, use pkgrel "99" for example ;-) 2024-01-04 00:12:29 so like one of the packages I have is ceph and it links to libc, boost, and a bunch of others like liblz4/libbz2/etc 2024-01-04 00:12:58 I have musl and boost in my repo (built with lto/march), but not bz2/lz4/etc 2024-01-04 00:17:36 these are good ideas, I appreciate the conversation 2024-01-04 01:45:43 hello, Could I use some helps ? For anyone who don't use display manager and login manager daemon (e.g greetd), Could you please share the output of `loginctl` command ? Thanks. 2024-01-04 07:09:50 Hello 2024-01-04 07:10:00 How can I solve this problem : 2024-01-04 07:10:04 DESKTOP-577VVFT:/usr/share/webapps# rc-service mariadb start && rc-update add mariadb default * WARNING: mariadb is already starting DESKTOP-577VVFT:/usr/share/webapps# /usr/bin/mysqladmin -u root password 'roelof' /usr/bin/mysqladmin: connect to server at 'localhost' failed error: 'Can't connect to local server through socket '/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)' Check that mariadbd is running and that the 2024-01-04 07:10:29 it is said that mariadb is running and later it is not running 2024-01-04 07:12:10 what does rc-status report? is it running? 2024-01-04 07:12:20 if it's crashed or stopped, check mariadb logs 2024-01-04 07:13:48 it said this : 2024-01-04 07:13:49 rc-status * Caching service dependencies ... [ ok ] Runlevel: sysinit Dynamic Runlevel: hotplugged Dynamic Runlevel: needed/wanted Dynamic Runlevel: manual 2024-01-04 07:15:37 what does the mariadb row say? 2024-01-04 07:16:06 there is no mariadb or mysql row 2024-01-04 07:16:30 you sure you mean rc-status and not rc-service 2024-01-04 07:16:53 yes. it should list all the services you have started. what does rc-service mariadb status say? 2024-01-04 07:19:38 a long error message : 2024-01-04 07:19:40 ESKTOP-577VVFT:/usr/share/webapps# rc-service mariadb start * You are attempting to run an openrc service on a * system which openrc did not boot. * You may be inside a chroot or you may have used * another initialization system to boot this system. * In this situation, you will get unpredictable results! * If you really want to do this, issue the following command: * touch /run/openrc/softleve 2024-01-04 07:20:07 ahh, there you go, where are you running this 2024-01-04 07:20:33 I figured this was a standard Alpine install based on the hostname 2024-01-04 07:20:55 is this WSL? 2024-01-04 07:21:49 yep,. this is WSL2 2024-01-04 07:23:23 ok nw. please provide these details up front in the future. I don't know about running openrc when it's not used for boot. do you just want to run mariadb or do you need it managed by openrc? 2024-01-04 07:23:48 sorry 2024-01-04 07:24:24 I want to run mariadb so I can install wordpress for learning purposes 2024-01-04 07:28:28 take a look at the /etc/init.d/mariadb file 2024-01-04 07:28:53 you can run the commands manually or look at doing so through openrc-run 2024-01-04 07:29:09 or look at the mariadb docs, though some directories may be different specifically for Alpine 2024-01-04 07:30:55 thanks 2024-01-04 07:32:58 gl! 2024-01-04 08:02:04 Hmm. I have a small little C project which depends on libsodium. Despite compiling with -lsodium, having libsodium{,-dev} installed, I'm getting linker errors, can't find the symbols. `readelf -Ws --dyn-syms /usr/lib/libsodium.so` shows all symbols necessary are present. 2024-01-04 08:02:33 What could I be missing? 2024-01-04 08:02:53 https://doc.libsodium.org/usage <- I have the CFLAGS and LDFLAGS, where the former is blank and latter is just -lsodium. 2024-01-04 08:04:20 > For static linking, Visual Studio users should define SODIUM_STATIC=1 and SODIUM_EXPORT=. This is not required on other platforms. 2024-01-04 08:04:41 Tried adding those for potential alpine's static tendencies hit the same issue. Didn't change anything. 2024-01-04 08:24:56 Huh. Moving the -lsodium to the end of the `cc` line worked... o.o 2024-01-04 08:45:02 Sofia, linking order matters 2024-01-04 08:47:07 Well, I've always had that -lsodium as the first argument to cc and it worked. Just not on alpine it seems. 2024-01-04 08:50:17 No, that's just how C works, it's not specific to any distribution or even operating system 2024-01-04 08:51:03 Maybe you just didn't realize it because that's the first time you're trying to actually link it (statically) 2024-01-04 08:57:30 quinq: Ah, so if it wasn't static, the -lsodium doesn't even contribute? 2024-01-04 08:58:01 It contributes, but dynamic linking is “relaxed” 2024-01-04 08:58:25 Nope. 2024-01-04 08:58:43 Just verified on my exherbo system, it needs the -lsodium and it works in the earlier position. 2024-01-04 08:59:02 So there is something distro relevant here. 2024-01-04 08:59:41 I'm compiling a project I've had untouched for years, migrating from alpine, to gentoo, to nix, to exherbo, and now to alpine. For all except for alpine, the -lsodium was early, now late. 2024-01-04 08:59:44 Either way necessary. 2024-01-04 09:00:04 Well, what could differ is that on your other system, you're not actually linking with libsodium, so it doesn't matter where you place it (check the resulting elf) 2024-01-04 09:00:06 from archlinux* 2024-01-04 09:00:38 libsodium.so.23 => /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib/libsodium.so.23 (0x00007f1fb5546000) 2024-01-04 09:00:40 from ldd 2024-01-04 09:00:50 Yeah, so you're not actually linking :) 2024-01-04 09:00:59 You're building a dynamic elf 2024-01-04 09:01:01 Yet if I omit the -lsodium, it doesn't build. 2024-01-04 09:01:22 I get the same missing symbol errors as before 2024-01-04 09:02:59 *sigh* everybody else calls it linking, even if it's not Static Linking As God And Unix Intended 2024-01-04 09:03:41 If I understand correctly, either way I need -lsodium. If dynamic, it may be early. If static, it must be late. 2024-01-04 09:03:53 More or less 2024-01-04 09:04:04 Weird 2024-01-04 09:04:06 ACTION nods 2024-01-04 09:04:09 It must be *after* the object that requires the symbols from your sodium library 2024-01-04 09:04:48 So if libfoo requires symbols from libsodium, you need -lfoo -lsodium 2024-01-04 09:04:53 In that order 2024-01-04 09:05:38 Could be -lfoo -lbar -lsodium, but for clarity it might be better to do -lfoo -lsodium -lbar, if libbar doesn't require anything from libsodium 2024-01-04 09:06:41 Noted 2024-01-04 09:06:45 Sometimes you have circular dependency, so you need to give it twice in the linking chain 2024-01-04 09:06:46 Thanks for the info 2024-01-04 09:06:54 Lovely... 2024-01-04 09:07:21 Yeah, try to design your software differently if possible :) 2024-01-04 09:07:42 Although it's not so much of a problem 2024-01-04 09:09:28 For reference, this C project is essentially a minimal alternative to gpg because I wanted better crypto. lol 2024-01-04 09:09:38 A toy project years ago and I still use it. 2024-01-04 09:09:43 Should find something better... 2024-01-04 09:09:59 I don't write C, it was just for fun. :) 2024-01-04 09:10:31 Writing C for fun is better than writing C with despair ;) 2024-01-04 09:11:12 These days I prefer Lean or Rust. 2024-01-04 09:13:23 ACTION might see if she can convince lean devs to include musl in their tier#1 support. https://lean-lang.org/lean4/doc/setup.html 2024-01-04 09:15:12 “Lean is a functional programming language that makes it easy to write correct and maintainable code.” 2024-01-04 09:15:14 Happy to report that rustup currently grabs musl builds of rust which actually work (last time they didn't) 2024-01-04 09:15:35 If that language translates to C and is using the C library, they would definitely be interested in using musl which holds the same goals 2024-01-04 09:15:49 Lean does compile to C++ 2024-01-04 09:16:12 Lean 4 that is, though they were working on an LLVM backend skipping C++. 2024-01-04 09:16:28 Either way, yes, musl probably relevant. 2024-01-04 09:17:23 Ah ok, that's only for their testing environment against the rest of the ecosystem 2024-01-04 09:17:29 But still, yeah :) 2024-01-04 09:18:04 localhost:~$ curl https://raw.githubusercontent.com/leanprover/elan/master/elan-init.sh -sSf | sh 2024-01-04 09:18:06 elan: musl-based systems are unsupported at the moment 2024-01-04 09:18:55 I mean it'll probably just build(tm) but they aren't publishing stable or nightly builds for musl. 2024-01-04 09:19:03 So I could build it myself if I'm patient. 2024-01-04 09:19:08 Rather “elan: there is a dependency on glibc” 2024-01-04 09:19:18 Not sure how patient I need. 2024-01-04 09:19:45 Depends on how deep it's using glibc-specific features 2024-01-04 09:20:14 Should be fine though, if they don't do to much crazy things 2024-01-04 09:20:32 https://github.com/leanprover/elan/commit/3aff0ca46026e10f2f1845bb55bfcccce09e4332 2024-01-04 09:20:50 Wonder if it'd actually just work if I tricked it to give me the glibc version while gcompat is installed? 2024-01-04 09:23:19 You could start talking with them directly 2024-01-04 09:23:28 They'd be better placed to help you on the topic 2024-01-04 09:23:48 Eh. 2024-01-04 09:23:54 > thread 'main' panicked at 'called `Result::unwrap()` on an `Err` value: Error { description: "Couldn't resolve host name", code: 6, extra: Some("Could not resolve host: github.com") }', src/elan-utils/src/utils.rs:514:32 2024-01-04 09:24:34 Any chance you'd be willing to test the theory? I have issues with DNS with my setup. Most of the time DNS just works but sometimes I get resolution issues. Something between tor and qemu. 2024-01-04 09:25:22 I just deleted the lines which check for musl to complain. 2024-01-04 09:25:53 At least this shows elan can run on alpine. 2024-01-04 09:39:03 I expect it to work either on alpine directly with gcompat or with arch in distrobox. Either way I can't pass that DNS issue with elan right now. 2024-01-04 09:39:20 (When I install this natively outside of the VM for testing things.) 2024-01-04 09:42:18 setting /etc/hosts doesn't work? also (and beaar in mind I know nothing about Lean) could you install the lean release directly? it looks like this code is just to get lean releases or something 2024-01-04 09:43:27 ACTION tries the /etc/hosts 2024-01-04 09:43:36 And yes 2024-01-04 09:44:31 /etc/hosts worked, just need to add another :) 2024-01-04 09:45:12 Back in a few minutes (downloading) 2024-01-04 09:45:26 aye nice, gl! 2024-01-04 09:46:03 Note I got this elan-init.sh from github, which downloads the rust program from github itself, then the rust code hits the DNS issue. 2024-01-04 09:46:21 And curl/wget/apk occasionally fail; yet nslookup never fails. 2024-01-04 09:46:40 I can `pkill -1 -x tor` on my host to fix the occasional fails. Haven't found a solution for the rust fail. 2024-01-04 09:49:06 that's a few too many layers for my tired brain to fully understand 2024-01-04 09:54:07 Installing gcc and clang on alpine. Oh I miss binary package distros. ........ 2024-01-04 09:54:35 Alpine is a binary package distro 2024-01-04 09:55:18 Exactly. 2024-01-04 09:55:34 ah, misunderstood 2024-01-04 09:55:39 :) 2024-01-04 09:55:41 see previous message :p 2024-01-04 09:56:29 Bedtime? :p 2024-01-04 09:56:47 really aught to write an email first 2024-01-04 09:57:05 Is that wise if half asleep? 2024-01-04 09:57:24 I think I'll wait to send them after I wake up 2024-01-04 09:57:38 1/2 should be simple enough to send now 2024-01-04 10:00:48 So elan + lake + leanc seem to work mostly. Running in distrobox fixes a little. Still something weird. 2024-01-04 10:02:48 sent 1/2 2024-01-04 14:24:45 Correction. Re lean/elan/lake. It is working perfectly as expected. The build artifacts directory changed on me. :) 2024-01-04 14:25:11 That is, it works inside distrobox but is confused on alpine. 2024-01-04 14:26:08 Just needed to install clang on the host and weirdly, git on the arch container. (And symlink /bin/clang to /usr/bin/clang because hardcoded path?) 2024-01-05 00:29:05 hi. after upgrading to grub,grub-efi 2.12 and rebooting, my system didnt boot anymore. i had to reinstall my entire system again (and prior to that had to "apk upgrade grub=2.06-r17" in order to prevent the same scenario). https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/commit/?id=0f3c992e98e2c223d85613db57d21198ecabd66a 2024-01-05 00:29:46 i have no logs, wasnt able to do anything. 2024-01-05 00:37:09 you don't have to reinstall even if grub is hosed; just boot a live media (like the alpine installer), and then just chroot in and replace grub 2024-01-05 00:37:56 or use the live media's bootloader to boot the system if it's also grub (usually is for efi booting) 2024-01-05 00:42:22 i know, but i never had to perform a chroot before, so i had no clue how to do it. it was easier to use my usb stick and my install.sh . i guess i have to learn how to "chroot" after this. without backups... this could have been catastrophic. this was the first major incident in 3 1/2 years on alpine. anyway, something is very wrong with the new grub, grub-efi version. 2024-01-05 00:47:54 oleovit: as the person who made the Grub 2.12 MR, no there is nothing very wrong with the new Grub 2024-01-05 00:47:58 and i had to hold a specific packages via = back. otherwise, after the upgrade to edge and so on, reboot, - same result. 2024-01-05 00:48:35 aha. its my laptop? 2024-01-05 00:48:42 rather there always has been an issue with Alpine's packaging of Grub in that updates/upgrade do not automatically re-run grub-install, so potentially introducing problems 2024-01-05 00:49:36 a similar issue happens with Grub (a new revesion of Grub 2.06) on aarch64 machine upgrading to the Alpine 3.19.0 release 2024-01-05 00:50:11 ah, so it was probably just mismatched image vs modules 2024-01-05 00:50:13 this has already been discussed my me in the past day in the alpine-devel channel - check the logs 2024-01-05 00:51:24 dwfreed: upgrading from Grub 2.06 to Grub 2.12 (or indeed any upgrade of Grub, even between revisions) does NOT change the code that runs at boot time, the modules in /boot/grub/ are NOT updated 2024-01-05 00:51:57 i will minimal, but after 2h restoring my system, i'm tired. what to do. holding the old version... or..? 2024-01-05 00:52:04 but then it should have just worked? 2024-01-05 00:52:23 however grub-mkconfig IS run after update/upgrade (so using the version of that script (and the programs it uses) from the newly updated/upgraded grub but it could for example generate a revised grub.conf that the old Grub still used on boot doesn't like 2024-01-05 00:52:47 which would have dropped you to a grub shell, which it sounds like that didn't happen 2024-01-05 00:53:02 nothing happend 2024-01-05 00:53:06 dwfreed: that's just one scenario I'm pointing out 2024-01-05 00:53:48 dwfree: look at the Grub aarch64 problem with Alpine 3.19.0, isn't not to do with revised grub.cfg but rather another cause 2024-01-05 00:54:39 I don't even run alpine :P 2024-01-05 00:55:18 dwfree: had a relook, the aarch64 problem was kernel functionality enabled that the old Grub couldn't handle so a manual grub-install was required 2024-01-05 00:55:40 updrade grub requires grub-install // nowerdays 2024-01-05 00:57:08 oleovit: as mentioned in alpine-devel yesterday I warned about the potential for exactly the problem you saw at least 3 months ago and I raised a MR for a potential (partial) solution but it didn't go anywhere 2024-01-05 00:57:22 to rerun grub on efi, the trigger has to findout efi dir 2024-01-05 00:57:44 if the dir is not /boot/efi 2024-01-05 00:58:38 basically anyone upgrading ends up with potentially bits of Grub 2.06 & bits of Grub 2.12 being used for booting which likely causes problems 2024-01-05 00:59:12 yes 2024-01-05 00:59:46 the solution is to run "grub-install" manually (before rebooting!) after the Grub package update and passing grub-install the *correct* arguments for your particular boot setup 2024-01-05 01:00:31 hmm 2024-01-05 01:00:31 the solution is to findout efi dir automatically 2024-01-05 01:00:55 also anyone who has manually tinkered with the Grub config in the past (like people trying to kludge Grub 2.06 to support LUKSv2 "FDE") could have Grub upgrade problems 2024-01-05 01:03:25 dwfree: some (many?) other distros also don't run grub-install upon their Grub package update/upgrades so having the same potential for booting problems 2024-01-05 01:06:03 its late night here. 02:02. conclusio? holding back the new version isn't a long-term solution. and why do i have to use grub-install for a grub update 2024-01-05 01:07:00 oleovit: the problems are UPGRADE related, they do not affect new installs of Grub 2024-01-05 01:07:51 oleovit: grub-install either (a) for BIOS machines writes a new version of the MBR and to code the the new subsequent sectors and updated the modules in /etc/grub/i386-pc 2024-01-05 01:08:25 or (b) for UEFI machnies creates a new grubx64.efi file and writes it to the ESP 2024-01-05 01:08:48 and updates modules in /etc/grub/grub/x86-efi/ 2024-01-05 01:09:28 running grub-install ensures that the files I mentioned above are Grub 2.12 versions rather than Grub 2.06 versions 2024-01-05 01:09:38 s/files/files and disk sectors/ 2024-01-05 01:09:55 minimal, why? why do i have to do anything. this is just another upgrade. not the first one. it broke my system. 2024-01-05 01:10:29 also for UEFI you'd then need to manually copy the updated EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi file to also EFI/boot/bootx64.efi 2024-01-05 01:11:03 oleovit~: because the Grub package does not do this, I strongly believe it should do it but it never has 2024-01-05 01:12:01 e.g. if you'd installed Alpine years ago on a machine where Grub 2.0 was originally installed then you'd still have Grub 2.0 code running during boot even if you'd subsequently installed newer versions of Grub multiple times since then 2024-01-05 01:12:14 Is there a way to check how much space would be saved by deleting a set of packages? `apk del blah -s` is dry, showing what would be deleted but it says current size, not would-be size. 2024-01-05 01:12:52 many times such "non-upgrade" upgrades would, by chance, break......but there was always a possibility (however small) of boot breaking due to this 2024-01-05 01:13:11 s/break/not break? 2024-01-05 01:14:06 @minimal holy moly. i copy your answers and read it in the morning. thank you anyway, like always 2024-01-05 01:17:13 have a good night. will fix this. 2024-01-05 01:50:23 Hello. I am installing Alpine on a MacBook 2017 (dual boot, first installed bootcamp windows to parition). Fdisk/parted can read parition information and show 4 GPT paritions. The kernel however, does not see these parition tables (/dev/nvme0n1 exists but p1-p4 does not). It seems like a kernel module is missing that would read the partition table, 2024-01-05 01:50:23 no idea what would need to be loaded... any suggestions 2024-01-05 01:52:06 smcavoy: what does "dmesg" message show regarding the nvme device? normally after partitions are created I'd expect to see new dmesg output appear to show added partitions 2024-01-05 02:04:42 re the Grub discussion, I noticed this: https://archlinux.org/news/grub-bootloader-upgrade-and-configuration-incompatibilities/ 2024-01-05 02:05:34 and this: https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/attention-grub-update/36172 2024-01-05 02:07:55 minimal: it shows the p1-p4.. I created the device files manually and was able to format, copy over the OS. so it seems the creation of the device files does not happen 2024-01-05 02:08:30 smcavoy: that sounds really strange. Are you using mdev, mdevd, or eudev? 2024-01-05 02:08:48 one of those should create the partition device files AFAIK 2024-01-05 02:09:24 this is just booting from an ISO burned to usb.. so mdev I think 2024-01-05 02:10:54 could it be some "weird" about the Mac hardware? They seem to do things differently 2024-01-05 02:24:48 oh, most certinaly :) 2024-01-05 03:25:49 sounds like you may have hybrid mbr or some other unusual mbr, you can diagnose/repair it with gdisk (make backups of course) 2024-01-05 04:15:49 i too had an unbootable alpine today. fixed, but my fault for seeing the grub update and then not acting appropriately... 2024-01-05 04:19:34 invoked: What should you have done? o.o 2024-01-05 05:20:03 grub-install 2024-01-05 05:21:30 note: for full context, this is a luks on lvm efi boot, running edge 2024-01-05 06:44:12 There are some packages I am wanting to learn how to port over to musl---learn more about what it would take to that and manage some community packages, etc. once I have learned more. Any useful suggestions? 2024-01-05 06:50:34 examples of packages in mind are fbdev, fbterm, yaft and also others. the one thing i miss from arch is all those aur packages. 2024-01-05 07:19:45 i would like to find ways to learn more and to contribute back 2024-01-05 07:31:35 hey folks, my computer doesn't boot anymore today. I upgraded yersterday. Any clue? 2024-01-05 07:34:49 reading the backlog, I'll boot an usb live, and try to re-install grub 2024-01-05 07:35:00 I'm not sure I use grub on this machine 2024-01-05 07:37:28 > the solution is to run "grub-install" manually (before rebooting!) after the Grub package update and passing grub-install the *correct* arguments for your particular boot setup 2024-01-05 07:37:28 How do we know/get the correct arguments for our setup? I just lost my laptop and only my desktop hasn't been rebooted yet 2024-01-05 07:56:57 same question 2024-01-05 07:58:19 from https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Bootloaders#GRUB : but I got efibootmgr failed to register the boot entry: No suck file or directory 2024-01-05 08:11:07 Saijin_Naib[m]: grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot/efi --removable /dev/nvme0n1 was enough for me 2024-01-05 08:11:13 adapt /dev/... 2024-01-05 08:11:23 if you use EFI 2024-01-05 08:12:24 Yeah, EFI, xfs over LVM on internal SATA SSD, EFI on ESP partition... 2024-01-05 08:16:50 this isn't funny, could we add at least a warning while upgrading grub? 2024-01-05 08:17:19 I don't like being forced to repair my computer before cofe... 2024-01-05 08:39:23 Not being snarky, but I dont recall ever having to worry about this in Solus or inumerable Debian-deriveds over the years... do they automate this for users? 2024-01-05 08:40:16 Like, I know people whinge about grub being a house of cards but I never knew I had to run post-upgrade scripts each time it updated 2024-01-05 08:58:52 ACTION installs alpine in chroot, adds linux-lts, learns how much more linux-firmware-* you get when you don't get the -none from linux-virt heh. 2024-01-05 09:01:32 Testing alpine in virtual machine seems sufficiently convincing everything I need should work - and workarounds are reasonable enough. Proceeding with manual install to a btrfs subvolume alongside my current exherbo linux install. Will dual boot with the same filesystem. :) 2024-01-05 09:02:28 Don't need to nuke my old install; just share it. <3 2024-01-05 09:03:20 Gonna save a lot of time I would be spending copying everything back from the backup drive. 2024-01-05 09:06:23 Man, I wish why flatpak is not working for me :S 2024-01-05 09:06:35 Under Sway 2024-01-05 09:08:51 hi. after updating to grub 2.12, my system could not boot and i had to reinstall my system due to my lack of knowledge on how to chroot. i am holding back the new grub version. @minimal said in the chat last night that i should run $grub-install before rebooting. 2024-01-05 09:09:03 so just to be sure. my efi system is already mounted on /boot/efi. the default install. if it's mounted on /boot/efi, do i have to use special/additional arguments (i guess no?). i want to avoid a chroot or reinstall, so i'm a little scared. 2024-01-05 09:09:12 https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/commit/?id=0f3c992e98e2c223d85613db57d21198ecabd66a 2024-01-05 09:46:58 Is there no hook for grub updates to run grub-install? 2024-01-05 09:47:22 cause I am now in the same situation as all the rest :( 2024-01-05 09:48:17 https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/tree/main/grub/grub.post-upgrade 2024-01-05 09:48:18 it's complicated. one has to perform the command after every grub update. also for arch. 2024-01-05 09:48:44 There is a hook but it doesn't run grub-install 2024-01-05 09:48:51 is there any reason for this? 2024-01-05 09:49:01 good question 2024-01-05 09:50:57 but what are the parameters if /boot/efi for $ grub-install. only grub-install or $ grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot 2024-01-05 09:52:38 aren't they pulled from your config file? 2024-01-05 09:54:06 i always avoided to dive deeper into Grub, unfortunately. do not like it. according to https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/html_node/Installing-GRUB-using-grub_002dinstall.html one does not have to add special parameters. but this is alpine. i don't want to mess up everything again... 2024-01-05 09:55:42 "If you mount it at /boot/efi then you don’t need any special arguments" -- but is this true for alpine 2024-01-05 09:55:50 exactly. 2024-01-05 09:56:06 beats having to find my usb drive. 2024-01-05 09:56:34 not how I imagined starting my friday morning 2024-01-05 09:58:09 i agree. it was horrible. very late last night and not knowing how to chroot (at least this will change). so, we only need to know: additional params for grub-update or not. 2024-01-05 09:59:29 until i am not sure, i have to hold the new version back 2024-01-05 10:02:39 let's wait here until we get an answer, hopefully. 2024-01-05 10:04:39 I am just gonna do no params 2024-01-05 10:05:48 ;) oh my. you are brave. i'm not.. . plz tell me if it works, if you are able to after a reboot ;) 2024-01-05 10:06:14 Not brave, just have work I need to do. 2024-01-05 10:06:55 you can hold the new version back too 2024-01-05 10:07:37 until we have an answer. or try it ;) 2024-01-05 10:09:05 I already upgraded, how can I hold back the version? 2024-01-05 10:12:13 $ apk add grub=2.06-r17 . and i did $ apk add grub-efi=2.06-r17 2024-01-05 10:13:11 but you already upgraded to the new version 2024-01-05 10:23:54 btw, in your boot dir, is there a directory called "EFI" or is it called "efi"? 2024-01-05 10:24:15 have to look, moment 2024-01-05 10:25:19 efi and in efi EFI 2024-01-05 10:30:12 btw too, here is the chat from last night: https://0x0.st/H6wD.txt 2024-01-05 10:30:27 @Kladky 2024-01-05 10:36:13 + i do not have the mentioned /etc/grub/ dir. i don't know. 2024-01-05 10:37:12 oleovit: I just have /boot/EFI 2024-01-05 10:39:42 grub-install just says it cannot find EFI directory 2024-01-05 10:45:05 @Kladky no clue why. i'm currently searching on alpines wiki for more info. as mentioned, i never cared about grub before, unfort. 2024-01-05 10:45:21 Is grub-update not enough? 2024-01-05 10:46:42 thats the question. additional params - or not. i don't have the answer :( 2024-01-05 10:47:03 Hello. I've been using river for quite a while now and so far it always worked flawlessly, so i was wondering when it will be moved into the community repository. 2024-01-05 10:49:07 @Kladky if you already upgraded to the new version and grub-update doesnt work, dont reboot... 2024-01-05 10:50:17 already did 2024-01-05 10:50:56 seems like i somehow broke it even more 2024-01-05 10:54:30 At least with nixos I would just be able to specify an old generation and just rebuild, but here idk what to do 2024-01-05 10:55:47 i'm sorry :(. i don't know if one should try grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot . i suggest, to wait until we get an answer and leave the chat open. 2024-01-05 11:04:36 It automatically detects the target. 2024-01-05 11:07:28 what about grub-install --verbose . maybe you get more info.. 2024-01-05 11:08:03 cannot open /boot/grub/device.map no such file or directory 2024-01-05 11:11:11 same, i have no file "device.map" (by looking into /boot/grub) 2024-01-05 11:13:18 I think I know what the problem is 2024-01-05 11:13:34 it seems to be looking at the kernel of the current system 2024-01-05 11:13:38 not of the chroot 2024-01-05 11:13:50 use the error message, search for it @ web. 1st google result: https://askubuntu.com/questions/484042/boot-grub-device-map-is-missing-on-ubuntu-14-04# 2024-01-05 11:14:00 oh, what? 2024-01-05 11:14:14 that command isn't provided by any package 2024-01-05 11:15:22 it is trying to use the version of the kernel that is running (from the usb) 2024-01-05 11:15:34 which is not the same as the one in the chroot 2024-01-05 11:17:52 you're in a chroot now? 2024-01-05 11:19:57 yea 2024-01-05 11:20:02 always was 2024-01-05 11:20:20 oh, did not know that 2024-01-05 11:20:21 chroot of the actual system 2024-01-05 11:20:33 (installed on my drive) 2024-01-05 11:20:42 cause I am on a live usb 2024-01-05 11:20:49 not much I can do from there 2024-01-05 11:21:56 ps 2024-01-05 11:22:36 i see. i re-installed it last night again. but before the reboot and upgrade i had to hold the pkg back. 2024-01-05 11:22:52 frag: ? 2024-01-05 11:23:24 changing font does not work with ctrl+shift+pageup/down in st? prob compiling option i guess? 2024-01-05 11:25:06 busybox pgrep -a doesnt show command args? 2024-01-05 11:26:59 @Kladky i just did a doas grub-install (without upgrading to the new version). grub-install: error: efibootmgr: not found. 2024-01-05 11:28:31 just install it 2024-01-05 11:28:37 apk add efibootmgr 2024-01-05 11:28:37 anyone: what params ? 2024-01-05 11:28:45 --efi-directory=/boot ? 2024-01-05 11:28:51 yes 2024-01-05 11:30:56 i don't know if i have to install the efibootmgr...# 2024-01-05 11:32:24 seems like pgrep -a should list args, so bug most likely 2024-01-05 11:34:58 "grub-install: error: /boot doesn't look like an EFI partition. 2024-01-05 11:41:51 You gotta mount /boot 2024-01-05 11:42:42 /boot/efi is already mounted.. lsblk 2024-01-05 11:44:18 i just mount it to /boot 2024-01-05 11:44:34 that's what was always the case 2024-01-05 11:45:36 basic setup-disk resulted in /boot/efi .. 2024-01-05 11:46:41 i don't know - we nooth need the params and i can't find anything of use on the web. we are on alpine, not ubuntu. 2024-01-05 11:46:57 "booth" not "nooth" 2024-01-05 11:47:19 i have work to do, like you... 2024-01-05 11:49:43 i hold it back, you may stay in your chroot, waiting until some big-brain appears in this chat and can help 2024-01-05 11:54:24 Ok, thanks anyway 2024-01-05 11:56:33 I can't find anything in the alpine wiki that addresses the need to run whatever grub-install with whatever parameters. 2024-01-05 11:58:16 i guess this is hidden knowledge, until it breaks your entire system 2024-01-05 12:02:40 I think I fixed it 2024-01-05 12:03:38 yep 2024-01-05 12:03:41 fixed 2024-01-05 12:04:52 for i in /dev /dev/pts /proc /sys /sys/firmware/efi/efivars /run; do sudo mount -B $i /mnt$i; done 2024-01-05 12:05:14 this needs to be ran before chrooting 2024-01-05 12:05:37 and also `modprobe efivars` before the above 2024-01-05 12:05:40 oleovit: 2024-01-05 12:08:15 @Kladky i'm glad you found a fix! but in my case, i am sceptical in my case: not in a chroot.. 2024-01-05 12:08:39 let's take a look... 2024-01-05 12:08:49 I can help you 2024-01-05 12:09:10 minimal: re grub, if I understand it correctly, those links also say the user needs to manually make sure it's fixed? 2024-01-05 12:14:33 @Kladky plz wait a moment, i guess i found 2 other possible solutions.. 2024-01-05 12:25:30 what if i simply perform grub-install /dev/sda1 (according to blkid,lsblk) 2024-01-05 12:25:52 Inside the chroot? 2024-01-05 12:26:14 Also is your drive encrypted? 2024-01-05 12:26:34 i am not in a chroot. i have re-installed the system last night, drive not encrypted 2024-01-05 12:27:09 please chroot 2024-01-05 12:27:17 oh no.. 2024-01-05 12:27:25 It's not difficult 2024-01-05 12:27:40 just mount everything to /mnt 2024-01-05 12:27:47 then chroot to /mnt 2024-01-05 12:29:43 do i really have to... let me try this simple command first on my older grub version. 2024-01-05 12:31:37 doas grub-install /dev/sda1 -> Installation finished. No error reported. 2024-01-05 12:31:46 Works 2024-01-05 12:31:57 I always chroot, but maybe you don't need to 2024-01-05 12:32:27 but: now the big question. is it working if i take the risk and upgrade to the new grub version.. 2024-01-05 12:33:29 yes, at some point i have to dive into this chroot thing, you are right. but now, it looks like there is a simpler solution. maybe 2024-01-05 12:34:04 Just do it 2024-01-05 12:34:12 Since you're already there, might as well 2024-01-05 12:34:23 "dave, i am afraid." (HAL) 2024-01-05 12:34:35 remember to run grub-install and update-grub after 2024-01-05 12:34:45 Obsure reference 2024-01-05 12:36:22 yes, update is important after it: grub-mkconfig --output=/boot/grub/grub.cfg 2024-01-05 12:36:54 Isn't that the same as update-grub? 2024-01-05 12:37:50 reference: movie, 2001 space odyssey ;) yes, its update-grub 2024-01-05 12:41:13 but - i am afraid. and i have to eat something. and i have to remove my holding...so @Kladky, i need a break anyway. i am glad it worked for you, and maybe it will work for me (the /dev/sd1 thing) 2024-01-05 12:41:57 Ok, mention me when you are ready to continue 2024-01-05 12:46:45 @Kladky it can take a while.. if i do it, and it works, i'm back. you do not have to wait for me. let's see, i have to eat. if i see you later, great, if not, no prob and a big thx 2024-01-05 12:47:29 Would be better if I don't see you later then :) (since that means it has been fixed) 2024-01-05 12:49:42 It depends on more than that ;) lets see! 2024-01-05 14:04:24 @Kladky it worked! 2024-01-05 14:06:03 as simple as that. i wish you a good year 2024 2024-01-05 14:06:46 doas grub-install /dev/sda1 2024-01-05 14:07:12 ok see you alpine & thx 2024-01-05 14:41:44 Klady: nope, Grub post-install has never run grub-install. As I said yesterday this has been an "accident waiting to happen".....the update to Grub 2.12 has now exposed that issue but some people saw it also when upgrading aarch64 (Arm) machines to Aline 3.19.0 2024-01-05 14:42:50 oleovit: the efibootmgr error is because efibootmgr isn't installed on your machine - but it wasn't needed previously because the "grub-install" options that setup-disk originally used told grub-install not to use efibootmgr 2024-01-05 14:44:49 olevit: "what params ?" - that depends on how you installed Alpine originally (i.e. did you manually partition or did you just run "setup-disk" and let it decide everything), whether you're booting BIOS or UEFI, whether you made any boot-related changes any time after the initial installation etc 2024-01-05 14:47:25 during an upgrade I was recommended to install cmd:seatd-launch 2024-01-05 14:47:29 what does the prefix cmd: mean? 2024-01-05 14:47:57 ikke: those link show that other distros *whose Grub packages also did not automatically run grub-install upon updates/upgrades* faced EXACTLY the same problems that people here are observing 2024-01-05 14:49:13 also, AS WELL AS running grub-install UEFI users ALSO need to copy the updated EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi file to EFI/boot/bootx64.efi 2024-01-05 14:49:23 minimal: fyi, I'm not trying to argue 2024-01-05 14:49:40 ikke: neither am I, just clarifying the facts 2024-01-05 14:50:16 I was just wondering why those distros are neither automatically running grub-install afterwards 2024-01-05 14:50:40 ikke: when I raised this potential issue months ago the response I recieved basically was "well no other distros run grub-install in their Grub post-install so why should we?" 2024-01-05 14:51:27 ikke: Debian does appear to run grub-install automatically, some other distros have added warning messages that users may need to do so themselves 2024-01-05 14:53:04 ikke: "those distros are neither automatically running grub-install afterwards" - likely because running in automatically can in itself potentially cause problems (if users have made changes to their boot config) 2024-01-05 14:53:30 As far as I understood, that was ncopas main concern 2024-01-05 14:54:34 and that was why the MR I worked on were going to store grub-install arguments used by the original installations in a config file for Grub's post-install to later reuse 2024-01-05 14:54:55 !53133 2024-01-05 14:55:18 that of course would only deal with newer installs (I intended that code to get into 3.19.0 so anyone from then onwards would have it recorded) 2024-01-05 14:56:21 the intention was users of older systems would have to manually set the config file's contents and then could (potentially) have grub-install run automatically from then onwards 2024-01-05 14:57:47 So we still (even in the ideal case of that MR being merged before 3.19) make sure existing users are made aware of this 2024-01-05 14:58:02 ikke: "that was ncopas main concern" - I'm not disagreeing, but basically no further discussion occurred on a solution....then we had the aarch64 Grub problems in the Alpine 3.19.0 due to lack of grub-install on upgrades 2024-01-05 14:58:27 now we have them for (I assume) various archs due to the Grub 2.12 upgrade 2024-01-05 14:59:08 need gentoo's news items 2024-01-05 15:02:14 yes this is pretty reproducible from a 3.19.0 installation, if you switch to edge then upgrade post install you'll more than likely run into this issue 2024-01-05 15:25:08 i was aware of that problem well ahead of grub updating. i haven't looked at the MR but i doubt it's possible to cover all the ways people can set things up. 2024-01-05 15:26:42 in any case, it's good practice 2024-01-05 15:27:06 invoked: indeed, that is something I'm well aware of, the purpose of the MRs was to record grub-install args for *new* installs so they could be reused later but also provide a means for people to manually provide settings (exactly because all the different ways can't be covered) 2024-01-05 15:27:10 if people are running luks/lvm or whatever, it's something they should know how to do. 2024-01-05 15:27:37 i'm not sure alpine wants to get into too much hand-holding, you know 2024-01-05 15:27:42 but it's not for me to say 2024-01-05 15:28:03 invoked: setup-disk supports LUKS and LVM, again the idea was to record its args it used for grub-install 2024-01-05 15:28:14 yeah, i never use setup-disk 2024-01-05 15:28:20 so that's just my particular situation 2024-01-05 15:28:38 but for people who do use that, cool. 2024-01-05 15:28:56 me neither, I create the proposed config file to match the way I installed things 2024-01-05 15:29:07 like dwfreed suggested, something like gentoo news or how the bsds do it for the rest of us. 2024-01-05 15:33:31 is it possible to set env var when starting term to run a command? st -e 'export MBLAZE_PAGER=less;mshow file' 2024-01-05 15:35:28 frag: MBLAZE_PAGER=less st -e file ? 2024-01-05 15:36:25 minimal: I didn't copy the grubx64.efi file over and I booted just fine 2024-01-05 15:36:40 pj ty! 2024-01-05 15:41:37 invoked: Considering that setup-disk can setup luks for you and every other os encrypts your disk by default, I don't think the bar for entry should be high 2024-01-05 15:42:23 Kladky: likely because you *didn't* pass "--no-nvram" to grub-install and so it created an EFI variable to point to grubx64.efi - which is something that setup-disk specifically DOES NOT do, it relied on booting via "fallback" without EFI variables, so it falls back to bootx64.efi 2024-01-05 15:43:14 my earlier references to passing "suitable" args to grub-install was a reference to things like this 2024-01-05 15:46:45 Anyone know of any packages to make firefox hardware acceleration work better 2024-01-05 15:47:06 cuz firefox on alpine runs like garbage on my laptop compared to debian rn 2024-01-05 15:47:14 barely usable 2024-01-05 16:04:43 "my earlier references to passing..." <- So if I used setup-disk and just have xfs over lvm with uefi on esp, do I need special options? Or just doas grub-install && doas grub-update 2024-01-05 16:05:52 Saijin_Naib[m]: check what setup-disk does: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/alpine-conf/-/blob/master/setup-disk.in?ref_type=heads#L310 2024-01-05 16:07:22 Saijin_Naib[m]: look at the setup-disk code and figure out what args it used in your particular situation? (which depends on things like did you pass any config-related env vars to setup-disk, did you manualky partition and then run setup-disk, etc) 2024-01-05 16:09:41 Only envvar was xfs, no manual partition 2024-01-05 16:09:47 in the function ikke pointed to you'll see "$efi_directory" and "$mnt" variables are used whose values depend on how you originally ran setup-disk 2024-01-05 16:10:14 This is looking like a whole box of clean install 😑 2024-01-05 16:13:55 so based on what you've said I guess the command would be: grub-install --target=x86_64 --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id=alpine --boot-directory=/boot --no-nvram 2024-01-05 16:14:40 and then *also* do "cp /boot/efi/EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi /boot/efi/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi" 2024-01-05 16:17:45 for what it is worth, this is the process I followed - your mileage may vary - but I did my best to explain myself here: https://lowsig.com/mygrub-rescue.html 2024-01-05 16:18:31 luckily I wasn't using encryption or anything complicated (i did this by design because it's my edge alpine system) 2024-01-05 16:21:36 "and then *also* do "cp /boot/efi..." <- And we need to be doing this going forward each update yo grub? 2024-01-05 16:22:29 Thanks @minimal & @aquamo4k , see if i have the time and patience to fix my compyters layer 2024-01-05 16:23:14 minimal: do you know if it's easy to find what version of grub is installed as bootloader? 2024-01-05 16:26:21 Saijin_Naib[m]: yes you need to do that EACH time that you run grub-install *unless* instead you don't use the "--no-nvram" arg for grub-install which will instead create a EFI boot variable for Alpine (and so not rely on using bootx64.efi) - but in that scenario you'll need to "apk add efibootmgr" as grub-install will want to run that 2024-01-05 16:27:18 Saijin_Naib[m]: also I assume this is NOT Alpine running from removable media (SDcard, USB stick, USB drive that you use on multiple machines) as then you cannot rely on EFI boot variables 2024-01-05 16:27:52 Correct. Internal sata ssd on one and emmc on the other 2024-01-05 16:29:17 ikke: hmm, not sure it would be a matter of checking (a) on BIOS machines the version of the code installed in the MBR (1st boot sector) and subsequent sectors, and (b) on UEFI machines determining the version of the generated bootx64.efi (or grubx64.efi if boot variable used that points to that) 2024-01-05 16:31:29 Ok, so not really trivial 2024-01-05 16:32:06 ikke: so for BIOS probably need to do something like a dd & strings on start of disk, and for (b) a strings on the appropriate EFI file 2024-01-05 16:32:29 Yeah, was hoping for something that you could ask grub 2024-01-05 16:33:29 ikke: dunno, I'll look into it. I'd expect the grub tools to tell you *their* version which would not necessarily reflect what's used for booting 2024-01-05 16:33:37 yup 2024-01-05 16:39:40 ikke: BTW what is happening is not necessarily a Grub 2.12 specific issue, it's a "a new Grub package has been installed (*even* a subrevision of same version) and grub-install hasn't been run" 2024-01-05 16:41:07 ikke: as illustrated by the problems with aarch64 users upgrading to Alpine 3.19.0 where they were previously on a subversion of Grub 2.06 and then upgrae to a different subversion of Grub 2.06 in Alpine 3.19.0 2024-01-05 16:41:12 the efi binary 'grubx64.efi' does not appear to have any version string in it, maybe there is another way to fingerprint it. 2024-01-05 16:41:34 offline for short while, will check the logs when I'm back for any further questions 2024-01-05 17:20:46 I am getting an error grub_ts_shim_lock_enabled when I try and start my system. I forgot to reinstall grub before rebooting so I chrooted into my system from an alpine usb and ran install-grub but when I try and start it up it gives me that error message. 2024-01-05 17:25:15 My other system I think I did everything right with the install grub but it won't show up on my network and it doesn't have IPMI or a GPU 2024-01-05 17:58:48 cow123: is "Secure Boot" enabled in your UEFI? 2024-01-05 18:02:14 right, I'm writing a Grub MR to display a warning on post-upgrade... 2024-01-05 18:03:19 minimal: secure boot is disabled 2024-01-05 18:04:19 cows_bouncer_is_broken: hmm, try adding "--disable-shim-lock" when you grub-install? 2024-01-05 18:05:10 ok 2024-01-05 18:05:35 ill try that now 2024-01-05 18:05:50 btw I fixed that one computer that was doing it but I rebooted another and now its doing the same error 2024-01-05 18:06:36 I don't know why the shim-lock stuff is being checked if Secure Boot is disabled in your UEFI 2024-01-05 18:08:16 ill check my uefi again 2024-01-05 18:16:30 secure boot got enabled again 2024-01-05 18:17:27 still doing the shim lock error though 2024-01-05 18:17:33 after i disabled it 2024-01-05 18:25:17 then try the "--disable-shim-lock" argument 2024-01-05 18:29:51 that didn't work 2024-01-05 18:29:56 one of my disks won't boot 2024-01-05 18:30:04 and one still does the shim lock error 2024-01-05 18:30:14 minimal: ^ 2024-01-05 18:33:18 and you ALSO copied the grubx64.efi file to bootx64.efi? 2024-01-05 18:35:44 no 2024-01-05 18:36:01 ill try that now 2024-01-05 18:36:41 try? it is (basically) required, otherwise you're still booting using the OLD (non-updated) bootloader 2024-01-05 18:37:56 setup-disk (on original install) sets up the machine to use bootx64.efi, NOT gurbx64.efi, for booting 2024-01-05 18:43:43 minimal: still not working. 2024-01-05 18:44:09 detail EXACTLY the steps you have taken 2024-01-05 18:45:39 boot into live usb, mdadm --assemble --scam; mount /dev/md127 /mnt mount /dev/md125 /mnt/boot/efi mount --rbind /sys sys mount --rbind /proc proc mount --rbind /dev dev install-grub then cp boot/efi/EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi boot/efi/EFI/alpine/bootx64.efi 2024-01-05 18:46:06 you didn't chroot? 2024-01-05 18:46:12 sry I did 2024-01-05 18:46:23 minimal> detail EXACTLY the steps you have take 2024-01-05 18:46:37 I chrooted before install-grub 2024-01-05 18:46:41 chroot /mnt 2024-01-05 18:47:43 install-grub? 2024-01-05 18:47:48 yes 2024-01-05 18:47:54 I said grub-install 2024-01-05 18:48:02 oh yeah grub-install 2024-01-05 18:48:03 sorry 2024-01-05 18:48:10 with which arguments? 2024-01-05 18:48:18 minimal> detail EXACTLY the steps you have taken 2024-01-05 18:48:20 the disable shim 2024-01-05 18:48:32 nothing else? that's possibly your problem 2024-01-05 18:48:46 I might need more because I am on raid1 boot drive 2024-01-05 18:48:51 but I don't know what they are 2024-01-05 18:49:08 whatever setup-disk used in the 1st place... 2024-01-05 18:49:26 which depends on your specific installation type 2024-01-05 18:50:04 My installation type is a 2 disk raid1 2024-01-05 18:50:09 also "cp boot/efi/EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi boot/efi/EFI/alpine/bootx64.efi" - is this EXACTLY what you did? if so it is wrong 2024-01-05 18:50:26 yes that is what I did 2024-01-05 18:50:31 bootx64.efi should be in /boot/efi/EFI/boot/ 2024-01-05 18:50:43 which is where it already would be 2024-01-05 18:50:49 I've a funky problem - since running apk upgrade -a today, my computer resets itself as soon as loading grub. It's a lenovo x1 yoga and maybe just something went wrong during the update, but wanted to give a heads up here, in case someone else is hit by it 2024-01-05 18:51:08 telmich: yes, lots of grub-related issues with Edge currently 2024-01-05 18:51:12 telmich: everyone seems to be having grub issues today 2024-01-05 18:51:21 oh 2024-01-05 18:51:23 (except those of us that don't use grub, of course) 2024-01-05 18:51:34 ok, so not only me, good to know 2024-01-05 18:51:35 zcrayfish: because it was a known "accident waiting to happen" and now it has happened 2024-01-05 18:51:50 Bummer. 2024-01-05 18:52:06 I have 6 alpine edge systems, 2 have grub problems and 1 I am afraid of updating 2024-01-05 18:52:11 3 I fixed 2024-01-05 18:52:24 ah, that explains why another machine is dead, too 2024-01-05 18:52:30 in this case because of the Grub 2.12 update 2 days ago but it could have happened anyway on other Grub versions (i.e. it did happen in Alpine 3.19.0 release for aarch64 upgrades) 2024-01-05 18:53:35 I should really check and see if my VPS is using grub.... ugh. 2024-01-05 18:55:13 cows_bouncer_is_broken: i think you are right, if running raid1, you probably have to manually fix bootloader on each device in the raid mirror because it's not running before boot 2024-01-05 18:55:41 how would I do that? 2024-01-05 18:56:48 Is the bug in the upgrade process or in grub or do we not know yet? 2024-01-05 18:57:40 cows_bouncer_is_broken: depends on all the details but in general, if you are doing software raid on a boot volume, sometimes the efi partition is not mirrored so you end up having to apply boot loader fixes to both disks manually. what does cat /proc/mdstat look like 2024-01-05 18:57:44 telmich: there is NO bug, it is a longstanding "issue" that upon Grub package updates that grub-install is not run to actually rewrite the Grub code used for booting 2024-01-05 18:58:09 telmich: I have been warning about this potential problem for many months 2024-01-05 18:58:31 uh 2024-01-05 18:58:48 aquamo4k: mdstat includes md125 which I think is my efi partition, md126 which might be swap and md127 which is my root partition 2024-01-05 18:59:09 ok... so the "fix" to the "non bug" is actually to just run grub-install? 2024-01-05 18:59:10 hmm 2024-01-05 18:59:24 telmich: yes 2024-01-05 18:59:29 aquamo4k: the UEFI spec makes no mention of RAID for ESP, there are however "methods" on Linux to use RAID for ESP 2024-01-05 18:59:48 hey hey, how's everyone 2024-01-05 18:59:52 my system is just whatever setup-alpine does 2024-01-05 19:00:06 minimal: yeah, it's been a while since i've had a config like yours 2024-01-05 19:00:13 err, like cows_bouncer_is_broken 2024-01-05 19:00:17 telmich: run grub-install with the correct arguments and also, if using UEFI, to also copy the updated grubx64.efi file over the existing bootx64.efi file 2024-01-05 19:00:18 Interesting, I was always wondering why Debian is asking where to install grub, even though it was already installed, never came to my mind that there is/can be a version mismatch 2024-01-05 19:00:21 if there is anybody who could point me to source code which describes how the modloop file is created and signed i would reeeeally appreciate it 2024-01-05 19:00:36 minimal: ack, thanks! 2024-01-05 19:01:28 telmich: because if you don't run grub-install on ANY revised Grub package update then it doesn't actually update the run-time boot code (i.e BIOS MBR or UEFI EFI file(s) etc) 2024-01-05 19:02:25 For grub/mbr/bios that kinda makes sense, I somewhat assumed that for uefi it's a non issue due to just being able to place stuff into /boot that is already mounted 2024-01-05 19:02:33 But...I guess it's not that easy, because the efi partition does not have to be there 2024-01-05 19:03:06 telmich: ? if you're booting via UEFI there has to be an ESP partition/filesystem 2024-01-05 19:03:22 Right, but it might be placed anywhere in the filesystem 2024-01-05 19:03:37 I.e. we cannot just update modules in /boot/grub, where I have it all the time 2024-01-05 19:04:00 "anywhere in the filesystem"? nope, it has to be in a ESP partition and formated as FAT with "EFI/" directory hierarchy 2024-01-05 19:04:15 Right, but where or if the efi partition is mounted, is system dependent 2024-01-05 19:04:16 unless you mean it might be MOUNTED anywhere? that's a different issue 2024-01-05 19:04:22 EXACTLY 2024-01-05 19:04:43 but even if it is mounted grub-install STILL needs to be run to update the EFI files 2024-01-05 19:04:57 So by default what I do is, first partition of whatever is there is vfat32, mounted on /boot, with /boot/EFI being accessible 2024-01-05 19:05:04 jwhen I try and run grub-install I get the error efibootmgr failed to register the boot entry operation not permitted. 2024-01-05 19:05:05 That's clear 2024-01-05 19:05:28 cows_bouncer_is_broken run apk add efibootmgr, you need to have it installed 2024-01-05 19:05:32 What I meant is, even with UEFI, there is no "standard way" to always run grub-install and succeeed 2024-01-05 19:05:47 its installled 2024-01-05 19:05:48 Because of the previously mentioned issue that the efi partition might be anywhere mounted, if at all 2024-01-05 19:05:49 cows_bouncer_is_broken: yeah, because of the (lack of) arguments you gave grub-install 2024-01-05 19:06:34 what arguements should I give it? 2024-01-05 19:06:47 telmich: indeed, I did raise a MR back in Oct aimed at recording which specific grub-install arguments setup-disk used on 1st install so that they could be reused upon Grub updates....but that MR was not accepted 2024-01-05 19:07:05 That would be kind of sane 2024-01-05 19:07:13 grub-install --efi-directory=/boot/ --no-nvram --disable-shim-lock worked for me 2024-01-05 19:07:35 telmich: as I said I've been warning of this "accident waiting to happen" for some time to no avail 2024-01-05 19:08:07 alexblueselene: what works for you may not work for others, that's the underlying point 2024-01-05 19:09:11 So the additional problem is that so far the grub updates were not ABI or version breaking or whatever you want to call it 2024-01-05 19:09:22 So the updates silently succeeded 2024-01-05 19:10:00 telmich: there are various reasons why a Grub package update might cause booting problems if grub-install has not been re-run 2024-01-05 19:10:57 Do you have the MR still somewhere at hand? 2024-01-05 19:11:33 alexblueselene: I tried that and it is not working for me. 2024-01-05 19:11:36 But independent of that, I think we should/need to issue some kind of warning, if that happened to me and 2 machines today, there must/will be thousands of machines soon unbootable that use grub under alpine 2024-01-05 19:12:19 e.g. the Alpine 3.19.0 broke Grub booting for people on aarch64 upgrading to 3.19.0 as in 3.19.0 the aarch64 kernel package enabled compressed kernels but the backport to Grub 2.06 in Alpine 3.19.0 of compressed aarch64 kernel support wasn't applied during upgrades as grub-install wasn't run to rewrite the active Grub booting code 2024-01-05 19:13:01 telmich: yes, as we speak I'm working on a MR to add a post-install warning message to the Grub package 2024-01-05 19:13:43 however it can't/won't tell people what exactly they need to do to resolve the issue as the procedure (grub-install args) differ depending on various criteria 2024-01-05 19:14:25 True - I wonder if we should put up a wikipage or similar that explains the issue in detail and how to recover from it with detailed steps 2024-01-05 19:15:23 cows_bouncer_is_broken: the arguments I used for EFI grub-install also included --bootloader-id= and --efi-directory= arguments. Not sure what you used. I put my notes here but they might not work for you: https://lowsig.com/mygrub-rescue.html 2024-01-05 19:15:47 telmich: who can determine all the N various detailed steps? 2024-01-05 19:15:54 ok thanks, I will look at your notes 2024-01-05 19:16:25 i added a note about how the grubx64 and bootx64 files should look after a successful run too from minimal 2024-01-05 19:16:33 aquamo4k: as I've said before people should use the same grub-install arguments as setup-disk did when they 1st installed 2024-01-05 19:16:36 apologies if I've missed it: what's with this alpine boot/bootx64.efi -> alpine/grubx64.efi shenanigins 2024-01-05 19:16:52 fluix: you have it the wrong way around 2024-01-05 19:16:59 grubx64.efi -> bootx64.efi 2024-01-05 19:17:03 sure, sorry 2024-01-05 19:17:06 minimal: sorry - your advice is smarter. i meant to look into that 2024-01-05 19:17:31 minimal: The question is, is it broken for both efi and bios? I think for EFI I can put together the steps 2024-01-05 19:17:34 i figured setup-disk obviously knows how to do it properly since it did it during install 2024-01-05 19:17:36 because bootx64.efi is what is used to boot system installed by setup-disk...........unless you have changed things afterwards 2024-01-05 19:18:26 aquamo4k: yes exactly, however setup-disk does not have a "hardcoded" grub-install command, it used variables which differ depending on some criteria of the installation 2024-01-05 19:19:19 telmich: for BIOS because the MBR (and subsequent sectors), which is what are actually used to boot, are not rewritten unless you run grub-install 2024-01-05 19:20:27 ah it's this part: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/alpine-conf/-/blob/master/setup-disk.in?ref_type=heads#L327-333 2024-01-05 19:20:48 telmich: if you update a system to the Grub 2.12 package but never run grub-install afterwards you end up with 2.12 binaries etc installed but Grub 2.06 (or whatever version was previously there) code STILL used for booting 2024-01-05 19:22:43 e.g. Grub 2.12 package installs 2.12 modules into /usr/lib/grub/ directory structure but the boot-time Grub code loads (old) modules from /boot/grub/*/ directory 2024-01-05 19:23:35 it seems like this alpine -> boot is only sometimes necessary: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GRUB#GRUB_UEFI_not_loaded 2024-01-05 19:24:04 except always for setup-disk because it doesn't use efibootmgr? 2024-01-05 19:24:38 fluix: Arch docs are not relevant to Alpine... 2024-01-05 19:25:02 EXACTLY because Alpine (in setup-disk_) does NOT use ~EFI boot variables 2024-01-05 19:25:24 so ignore any non-Alpine "guides" regarding Grub 2024-01-05 19:25:24 right, except calling grub-install directly (as people have here) _does_ use efi variables 2024-01-05 19:25:51 and the alpine wiki similarly doesn't use the --no-nvram flag that setup-disk does: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Bootloaders#GRUB 2024-01-05 19:26:19 fluix: setup-disk specifically calls grub-install with "--no-nvram" 2024-01-05 19:26:29 mhm, I think I said that 2024-01-05 19:26:50 albeit with a question mark at the end 2024-01-05 19:27:57 the problem is *anyone* can write a wiki article about anything, the existance of one doesn't specifically make it correct (in any or all situations) 2024-01-05 19:28:55 bootloader config is complicated - are you using RAID? using LVM? using LUKS? using which root filesystem type? using LVM-on-LUKS-on-RAID? etc 2024-01-05 19:29:15 yeah very true - also are you doing root on zfs :-) lol so many permutations. 2024-01-05 19:29:33 using BIOS? using UEFI? using UEFI with EFI boot variables? using Alpine as the only OS on a disk or with multiple OSes on the same disk? 2024-01-05 19:30:18 did you install Alpine first before any other OSes on the same disk? or after one, or more, other OSes were installed? 2024-01-05 19:30:45 ok that worked and I got one more server back up, 2024-01-05 19:30:58 did you custom partition the disk before running setup-disk? etc 2024-01-05 19:31:13 i wonder what the update code looks like on fedora and ubuntu. I suspect they figured out some happy paths based on all the telemetry they get back from installs. 2024-01-05 19:31:20 now I have no clue what to do with my server that does not have a display out 2024-01-05 19:31:28 yes I understand and agree, was just looking at some more info specifically about the boot/alpine distinction. some people here (and the wiki) have suggested running grub-install without --no-nvram and installing efibootmgr 2024-01-05 19:31:32 cow123: no serial console? 2024-01-05 19:31:44 i don't think so 2024-01-05 19:31:49 IPMI? 2024-01-05 19:31:53 nope 2024-01-05 19:31:59 its a x299 gaming 7 pro motherboard 2024-01-05 19:32:05 with no integrated graphics 2024-01-05 19:32:07 and no gpu 2024-01-05 19:32:37 fluix: that then deviates away from what the standard Alpine installer (setup-disk) does and won't work right for removable boot devices 2024-01-05 19:32:46 (regarding UEFI) 2024-01-05 19:32:49 is it in a remote location cow123 ? 2024-01-05 19:32:56 no I have physical access 2024-01-05 19:33:01 yes I understand 2024-01-05 19:33:01 its right next to me 2024-01-05 19:33:22 and it's still running or did you already break it by rebooting? 2024-01-05 19:33:27 cow123: how did you manage to install the machine in the 1st place then? 2024-01-05 19:33:30 idk what its doing 2024-01-05 19:33:44 minimal: It used to have a gpu a few months ago 2024-01-05 19:33:55 but I needed it for somsething else 2024-01-05 19:34:13 and "forgot" to set up alternative console access method? 2024-01-05 19:34:13 I think the right solution here is better documentation on bootloaders and linking to that on grub updates. as you mention, people have different setups and automation would be difficult 2024-01-05 19:34:25 the link lights are blinking but its not showing up in my router 2024-01-05 19:34:29 and I can't ssh 2024-01-05 19:34:41 fluix: and who is going to maintain that documentation? 2024-01-05 19:34:45 maybe move the system disk to another box and mount it up there to backup and repair in that order :-) 2024-01-05 19:35:01 the community:tm:, as is the case with everything else 2024-01-05 19:35:29 any way without opening it? its in the top of a server rack 2024-01-05 19:35:53 and it has servers surrounding it 2024-01-05 19:35:53 fluix: automation for "typical" setups going forward could be handled, that was the intention behind my MRs 2024-01-05 19:35:55 cow123: you keep throwing out additional challenges :-) next, no screwdriver lol 2024-01-05 19:36:01 lol 2024-01-05 19:36:12 cow123: does it have a serial port? 2024-01-05 19:36:21 x299 don't think so 2024-01-05 19:36:24 no, its a gaming motherboard 2024-01-05 19:36:26 x299 2024-01-05 19:36:43 and those sound good based off what you've said on IRC. I know it's not much since you've been talking about this for a bit and nothing's been done, but thanks for working on it :) 2024-01-05 19:37:11 new training course : Grub Mastery 101 2024-01-05 19:37:39 fluix: I haven't been working on it since October when my MR was basically rejected but no alternative was proposed or any real feedback provided 2024-01-05 19:38:24 yeah, definitely fair. and as you mention, being frustrated doesn't help. I think I personally would have taken interest in looking at it, but I don't watch all opened MRs 2024-01-05 19:38:48 (I also didn't know your nick on gitlab until now :p) 2024-01-05 19:39:27 so you think I will need to open up that one server? 2024-01-05 19:39:36 fluix: that MR was me trying to find a solution, I'd mentioned the potential problem several times before Oct 2024-01-05 19:42:37 I've only been active on IRC more recently. I don't recall your messages. This seems to be the way Alpine works for some things. it's not great but hopefully we can get better 2024-01-05 19:46:22 I just checked and I don't see anything about serial console on the manual 2024-01-05 19:46:25 or a port for it 2024-01-05 19:46:37 same with ipmi 2024-01-05 19:46:49 and there is no hdmi or vga port 2024-01-05 19:53:04 minimal: was the disagreement with the approach in the MR voiced in IRC or? 2024-01-05 19:54:20 I believe in another gitlab Issue it was basically said that as other distros didn't run grub-install upon package updated then why should Alpine 2024-01-05 19:55:03 following on from that seems to be the comment in my MR pointing to Debian actually running grub-install on update but no further discussion 2024-01-05 19:55:36 ACTION nods 2024-01-05 19:55:51 I guess not running grub-install is safe if grub.cfg isn't changed? 2024-01-05 19:58:51 fluix: no, there are other reasons to run it 2024-01-05 19:59:38 and as there is basically no way to automatically determine if it *needs* to be run or not then it basically should be run every time 2024-01-05 19:59:51 of course (updates), but yeah there was that aarch64 issue 2024-01-05 20:00:40 it looks like Arch just warns people https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/grub/-/blob/main/grub.install?ref_type=heads#L12 and Debian runs it automatically 2024-01-05 20:01:54 fluix: and security fixes too....you won't get them if the running code isn't updated 2024-01-05 20:02:14 what I meant by (updates) 2024-01-05 20:02:22 fluix: yes I'm adding post-upgrade code to display a "scary" warning message 2024-01-05 20:20:36 what do you use as bulletpoint symbol in ascii texts? 2024-01-05 20:22:35 this is the sort of discussion edge should shake out. although it's unfortunate you didn't get more input on your MR before this. 2024-01-05 20:22:48 - 2024-01-05 20:23:40 frag: I use the Markdown ones: - or * 2024-01-05 20:25:06 makes sense yeah.. 2024-01-05 20:53:14 • utf8 • html 2024-01-05 20:56:52 ah yes also possible 2024-01-05 20:57:18 that's not ascii 2024-01-05 20:57:26 i try to stick with ascii 7bit mostly, hehe 2024-01-05 20:58:15 I am torn between 7bit and Typography 2024-01-05 20:59:25 yes, not so beautiful always with - ... 2024-01-05 21:00:05 function vs beauty 2024-01-05 21:00:13 frag: isn't ASCII always 7bit? 2024-01-05 21:00:13 guess it depends on the rest of the formating tho 2024-01-05 21:00:54 minimal probably, so ascii is 7bit utf? 2024-01-05 21:01:09 "ASCII has just 128 code points" 2024-01-05 21:01:27 7bit UTF? never heard of it 2024-01-05 21:02:27 hmm, there actually *is* a UTF-7 defined apparently 2024-01-05 21:02:34 > There are several different variations of the 8-bit ASCII table 2024-01-05 21:03:00 "UTF-7 has never been an official standard of the Unicode Consortium. It is know to have security issues..." 2024-01-05 21:04:07 frag: that is "Extended ASCII", not "ASCII" 2024-01-05 21:04:42 yeah 2024-01-05 21:04:46 you really mean ISO 8859-X 2024-01-05 21:04:57 typically -1 or -15 2024-01-05 21:38:03 ACTION laughs in windows-1252 2024-01-05 21:48:22 >_< 2024-01-05 21:49:36 … 2024-01-05 21:56:11 bring back EBCDIC... 2024-01-05 21:59:17 :vomit: 2024-01-05 22:06:30 ECMA-35 ought to be enough for anyone - Bill Gates, probably 2024-01-05 23:59:24 Hello world from new alpine install. <3 2024-01-05 23:59:32 o/ 2024-01-06 00:02:29 NIce 2024-01-06 00:25:04 Dual booting on the same encrypted filesystem is really nice. No arbitrary partition to allocate, just btrfs subvolumes. 2024-01-06 00:25:24 Did the bulk of the install in a chroot before the reboot. 2024-01-06 00:25:31 Now I chroot into my old system. :) 2024-01-06 00:26:40 oh that's clever 2024-01-06 00:31:10 At first I forgot I had btrfs, thinking of prior migrations on ext4, was going to boot something just to mv / to /old and /alpine to /. But subvols, even better, can keep both active. \o/ 2024-01-06 00:32:22 so, uhm, i hope this is not a stupid question - you can tell grub what subvol you want or something? 2024-01-06 00:38:12 Yes, though I don't use any boot loader, just uefi itself, or efibootmgr. 2024-01-06 00:38:28 ah, UKI? 2024-01-06 00:38:31 Alpine is the default. 2024-01-06 00:38:33 Yes. 2024-01-06 00:38:42 (i haven't used alpine on physical systems so i don't know everything) 2024-01-06 00:38:48 Signed with the same key from my last install. 2024-01-06 00:38:51 nice 2024-01-06 00:39:16 Habbie: never tried subvols but Arch wiki says "after changing the default subvolume on a system with Grub, you should run grub-install again..." 2024-01-06 00:39:43 right, that i believe 2024-01-06 00:40:46 Habbie: behaviour on VMs should be basically the same 2024-01-06 00:41:10 oh, sure - let me rephrase, i only ever used alpine in Docker :) 2024-01-06 00:41:28 but what Sofia said was interesting to me outside of Alpine too :) 2024-01-06 00:41:51 I've used UKIs also but, so far, not with secure boot 2024-01-06 00:43:31 you can also use the kernel EFISTUB instead of UKI 2024-01-06 00:47:46 You just add the rootflags=subvol=path/to/alpine/subvol 2024-01-06 00:47:53 Sofia, cool 2024-01-06 00:48:57 doh! the wiki I quoted as regarding changing the *default* subvol 2024-01-06 00:53:51 I might be missing some things because I did the install manually. *adds ntp* 2024-01-06 00:59:56 ACTION reconnected 2024-01-06 00:59:59 I might be missing some things because I did the install manually. *adds ntp* 2024-01-06 01:01:01 i've been running btrfs that way for a while, it's not borked on me yet 2024-01-06 01:01:26 i started using btrfs as a laugh, really, but i'm still using it because it works. 2024-01-06 01:01:46 probably just jinxed myself 2024-01-06 01:03:35 heh 2024-01-06 01:03:44 First time I used it, it broke and ate my data. 2024-01-06 01:04:04 Started using it on the previous install, forgot it was btrfs and carried on thinking it was ext4. :p 2024-01-06 01:04:37 i started whenever it was they first introduced subvols 2024-01-06 01:05:49 I might experiment with the immutable alpine wiki 2024-01-06 01:11:48 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Immutable_root_with_atomic_upgrades 2024-01-06 01:23:42 "fluix: automation for "typical..." <- Does typical mean anything done via setup-disk/setup-alpine? 2024-01-06 01:24:27 in the future, yes 2024-01-06 01:25:42 Saijin_Naib[m]: basically "yes" assumed nothing you have partitioned etc before running setup-disk and nothing related to boot has been customised afterwards 2024-01-06 01:26:42 Alright, sounds like what I do, I think 2024-01-06 01:26:55 Still down on both machines 😑 2024-01-06 01:27:02 This was a nasty surprise 2024-01-06 01:27:03 Saijin_Naib[m]: as you're on Matrix you're IM only shows me a *part* of what you're quoting so I'm guessing exactly what I said that you're referring to 2024-01-06 01:27:55 minimal: Oh sorry, it was in reference to automation for typical setups being an eventual MR goal 2024-01-06 01:30:04 ok, so the potential automation refers to to steps, (a) when Alpine is 1st installed then setup-disk would write a record of the grub-install args used, and (b~) Grub post-upgrade could then automatically run grub-install again using this recorded set of grub-install args 2024-01-06 01:30:54 this wouldn't cater for anyone upgrade Grub they hadn't used a proposed modified setup-disk in the first place to record the args 2024-01-06 01:31:43 but users could manually put the relevant args (if they know them) in the config file so then grub post-upgrade could potentially use those settings in future 2024-01-06 01:31:50 Okay. Makes sense. 2024-01-06 01:32:24 So atm I am stuck until I figure out what args I need in a chroot from a liveusb 2024-01-06 01:32:41 No updated grub package is going to save me 2024-01-06 01:33:03 but one issue if that if setup-disk did record the args and then the user later made some changes to boot related stuff then a later automatic run of grub-install using the original setting could unfortunately also cause booting problems... 2024-01-06 01:33:06 Since what that would need was never recorded 2024-01-06 01:33:17 minimal: 😭 2024-01-06 01:33:37 Is there something like grub that hurts less haha 2024-01-06 01:34:29 yeah, LILO the good old days :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LILO_(bootloader) 2024-01-06 01:35:37 Saijin_Naib[m]: the script I'm writing currently (for Grub to call in post-upgrade) will only *display*, not run, a typical grub-install command, so you could perhaps use it to see what it "suggests" 2024-01-06 01:36:28 Saijin_Naib[m]: anything you use as an alternative method of booting won't be officially supported by Alpine 2024-01-06 01:36:44 basically what setup-disk uses is the "official" method 2024-01-06 01:37:19 you could use potentially kernel EFISTUB, UKI, Limine, U-Boot, etc 2024-01-06 01:37:33 Okay, so grub is the best it gets for not going fully custom/manual 2024-01-06 01:38:02 Nah, I try to stick as close to Alpine defaults as I can to avoid, well, this 2024-01-06 01:47:15 Keep using grub but have an EFI boot entry (EFISTUB) as a backup for those times when grub fails? 2024-01-06 01:57:26 zcrayfish: for that to work he'd need to add a EFI boot variable for booting EFISTUB and then that would take precedence over the UEFI "fallback" booting of bootx64.efi so then he'd need to add a *second* EFI boot variable for booting either grubx64.efi or bootx64.efi and also set/change the EFI BootOrder variable to define that the 2nd boot var is used before the 1st one ;-) 2024-01-06 02:00:44 hehe 2024-01-06 02:10:48 as if you don't use a EFI boot variable for booting kernel EFISTUB then you're either going to have to use the EFI Shell to manually boot it (including typing all the relevant settings including cmdline values) or else you try and rely on EFI Shell startup.nsh support which possibly may not be there........or indeed your machine may not even have a EFI Shell 2024-01-06 02:11:06 :-) 2024-01-06 02:48:41 If I have a working EFI shell thay does nothing, right? Because I still need the updated efi binaries from the grub-install I never ran, right? 2024-01-06 02:49:17 And those are on my xfs/lvm2 volume the EFI shell cant mount 2024-01-06 02:50:14 right 2024-01-06 02:50:49 I was referring to zcrayfish talking about using kernel EFISTUB and Grub as to boot options on a *working* system 2024-01-06 02:50:58 s/to /two / 2024-01-06 02:51:12 yeah, I'm distracting from the problem, sorry :p 2024-01-06 02:51:44 Ahh okay 2024-01-06 02:51:52 Yeah, not working haha 2024-01-06 02:52:57 Got a glimmer of hope there, though :P 2024-01-06 02:54:05 ikke, minimal: I wonder if we ought to have a warning hint on the main page of the wiki for the upcoming release? 2024-01-06 02:54:31 steering folks towards the release notes... 2024-01-06 02:54:48 which release notes? 2024-01-06 02:56:19 minimal: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0#grub_2.12 2024-01-06 02:56:40 well 3.20.0 isn't coming out for alomst 6 months yet... 2024-01-06 02:56:56 the current issue is with Alpine Edge 2024-01-06 02:57:54 I had in mind composing the warning ahead of time and having the wiki only display the message when the version actually drops 2024-01-06 02:58:00 If I did the grub install command with the flags you suggested prior and it boots, do I still need to cp the efi binary? 2024-01-06 02:58:03 something like... {{#ifeq: {{AlpineLatest}} | 3.19.0 | {{Warning|There are breaking changes to the GRUB bootloader in Alpine 3.20.0
GRUB users are highly encouraged to read the [[Release Notes for Alpine 3.20.0#grub 2.12|release notes]]}}}} 2024-01-06 02:58:15 s/3.19.0/3.20.0 2024-01-06 02:59:45 Saijin_Naib[m]: yes as grub-install will only update EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi, not EFI/boot/bootx64.efi whereas setup-disk set things up to use "fallback" i.e. EFI/boot/bootx64.efi booting 2024-01-06 03:00:16 So how/why did I just boot successfully? 2024-01-06 03:00:30 Sorry, just trying to understand the relationship of the two sets of efi binaries 2024-01-06 03:00:40 what "grub-install" arguments did you use? 2024-01-06 03:00:48 I did lsd -lla for both folders and they are different, so yeah, I'm doing it now 2024-01-06 03:01:03 doas grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id=alpine --boot-directory=/boot --no-nvram 2024-01-06 03:01:22 i think it should be "Upgrade_Notes" 2024-01-06 03:01:22 I assume you forgot to specify "--no-nvram" 2024-01-06 03:01:35 No, it was on there 2024-01-06 03:02:12 so then I don't know how you managed to boot *IF* (a) you didn't had a suitable EFI boot var or (b) you didn't manually update the bootx64.efi file 2024-01-06 03:02:14 releae notes should mention the issue with its link 2024-01-06 03:02:32 what link? 2024-01-06 03:02:40 minimal: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0#grub_2.12 2024-01-06 03:02:56 I was asking vkrishn 2024-01-06 03:03:10 "the issue with its link" - what link? 2024-01-06 03:04:07 minimal oh, that's terrifying. It works but shouldnt. Fantastic 2024-01-06 03:04:14 No way that won't bite me in the ass later 2024-01-06 03:04:16 i mean having the wiki page named "Upgrade_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0" 2024-01-06 03:04:38 Saijin_Naib[m]: or else you did something else you didn't mention? 2024-01-06 03:04:44 it was for zcrayfish ^ 2024-01-06 03:05:02 minimal just the grub-install command I posted above based upon your earlier direction 2024-01-06 03:05:28 Well all of the previous release notes were named so.............. but the anchor name could still be changed, after all, it's ~6 months until that release 2024-01-06 03:06:37 ok 2024-01-06 03:06:43 Saijin_Naib[m]: so do you have any EFI boot variables? 2024-01-06 03:07:25 I have no idea what those are, so no? Both machines were pretty vanilla setup-alpine with the exception that both had setup-alpine with a variable for using LVM and XFS 2024-01-06 03:08:03 vkrishn: your suggestion is great though, we could add something to the "Upgrading from older versions" page as well 2024-01-06 03:08:08 much appreciated 2024-01-06 03:08:13 thanks 2024-01-06 03:08:24 Saijin_Naib[m]: try runnnig "efibootmgr"? if it is installed and you have EFI vars it will show them 2024-01-06 03:08:48 That will just print without arguments, right? I'm not foot-gunning here? 2024-01-06 03:08:54 Not that you normally hand people foot-guns 2024-01-06 03:09:03 yeah, no args means show the settings 2024-01-06 03:09:21 ACTION sent a code block: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/zJIKOyyEHvlemsfagtXMccpd 2024-01-06 03:10:19 so you DO have 2 EFI boot variables... 2024-01-06 03:10:36 and the 1st one is using GRUBX64.EFI to boot... 2024-01-06 03:10:54 On this machine, at least. The other one failed to boot so... that must be different 2024-01-06 03:10:59 and the 2nd one is using BOOTX64.EFI to boot 2024-01-06 03:11:10 Is that good/correct? 2024-01-06 03:11:17 but setup-disk would not have created those entries 2024-01-06 03:11:23 so something else did 2024-01-06 03:11:38 Me installing efibootmgr or other packages? 2024-01-06 03:11:47 I 100% do not know enough to have set this up myself 2024-01-06 03:11:52 And nobody else touches these 2024-01-06 03:12:07 So a package/post-install did this for me 2024-01-06 03:12:23 nope, doubt it 2024-01-06 03:13:06 try "efibootmgr -v" to get more info 2024-01-06 03:13:34 ACTION sent a code block: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/dfSUTStJXnMsqantjLdwuTac 2024-01-06 03:14:16 hmm, not useful 2024-01-06 03:14:26 I don't know exactly what these entries have defined 2024-01-06 03:14:50 anyway the 1st one is why you're able to boot even though bootx64.efi was not updated 2024-01-06 03:14:55 This isn't something my board sets up, right? 2024-01-06 03:15:10 but "stock" Alpine setup-disk does NOT create EFI boot variables 2024-01-06 03:15:12 My UEFI firmware? It can't touch this or set this? 2024-01-06 03:16:01 dummo, perhaps if you go into your UEFI settings it had some "smart" mode to scan all ESP partitions on all devices looking for EFI files to create EFI boot variables for 2024-01-06 03:16:13 Yes, it does that on boot 2024-01-06 03:16:14 s/dummo/dunno/ 2024-01-06 03:16:25 Clears them after disconnect on next reboot, too 2024-01-06 03:16:34 My laptop adds them but does not clear them -_- 2024-01-06 03:16:43 So it has a mile-long list of dead garbage I can't clear 2024-01-06 03:16:46 normally I'd expect it to display a boot menu using pre-existing EFI boot variable, not to create EFI boot variables itself 2024-01-06 03:17:31 Hm... And this isn't an amazing board, either. B150m-itx. Old, entry-level business board 2024-01-06 03:17:50 Maybe it wasn't completely trash after all, haha 2024-01-06 03:17:59 1/2 machines live! 2024-01-06 03:18:04 you can use "efibootmgr" to delete individual EFI boot entries 2024-01-06 03:18:14 >_> 2024-01-06 03:18:23 I will attempt that on the craptop once I get it living 2024-01-06 03:18:57 It would be nice to clear Arch, Artix, Gecko, Ubuntu, Solus, Devuan, MXLinux, et al 2024-01-06 03:19:41 Did some mega distro-hopping when I got it trying to find a distro that worked with my touchpad until you folks helped me figure out what module/kernel config needed changing and now here I am using Alpine on everything 2024-01-06 03:20:07 So again, thanks for being the most helpful linux community I've ever been a part of 2024-01-06 03:20:20 Astonishingly welcoming, really 2024-01-06 03:21:46 I only consider changing distros every couple of decades ;-) 2024-01-06 03:22:11 This grub thing almost got me 🤬 2024-01-06 03:30:52 Poop. alpine-extended does not seem to be the right call as a recovery drive... no lvm service, cant mount drive 2024-01-06 03:33:45 no lvm command? 2024-01-06 03:34:10 uuuh 2024-01-06 03:34:18 rc-update and rc-service don't show lvm 2024-01-06 03:34:26 didn't try to use it directly 2024-01-06 03:35:27 well the ISOs aren't really intended to do stuff like that 2024-01-06 03:35:35 they're basically installers 2024-01-06 03:36:38 they're run-from-ram Alpine, so they would only setup whichever services that are defined in the LBU config file 2024-01-06 03:36:54 or whatever you call it 2024-01-06 03:38:41 Ahh, gotcha 2024-01-06 03:38:50 I'll respin an MXLinux liveusb then 2024-01-06 03:50:25 going offline now... 2024-01-06 04:00:47 Thanks for saving my desktop 2024-01-06 04:00:57 Thats most important for work and home stuff 2024-01-06 04:01:00 😍 2024-01-06 05:23:29 these were probably created by runnijg grub-install without --no-nvram at least once 2024-01-06 06:13:17 So... mistake or? 2024-01-06 06:13:28 It saved my ass 🤣 2024-01-06 06:14:21 And I absolutely ran grub-install with no arguments before I read minimal instructions 2024-01-06 07:46:39 Two machines back! 2024-01-06 07:46:51 Am I a sysadmin now? 🤔 2024-01-06 07:56:16 Hmm, emptied out EFI boot vars and laptop firmware only auto-found the grub efi, not the boot efi, whereas desktop finds both. So odd 2024-01-06 08:46:09 Saijin_Naib: you can add pkgs to a live session for recovery. 2024-01-06 10:56:57 sry for grub-upgrade-topic again. but after reading the later responses yesterday, i guess there must be still something wrong. i can boot now, but for further information, please take a look into: https://0x0.st/H6lg.txt 2024-01-06 11:13:30 can 'find || echo fail' if it doesnt find anything somehow? 2024-01-06 11:14:04 late chiming in but had the same issue, thought grub was faulty. Read the logs here and followed the bootloaders instructions and fixed my install 2024-01-06 11:14:19 i can boot now! yay!! 2024-01-06 11:14:20 haha 2024-01-06 11:14:26 maybe more explanatory: 'find -type p || echo fail' 2024-01-06 11:16:07 using busybox find 2024-01-06 11:19:41 maybe more explanatory: 'find -type p |grep . ii echo fail' 2024-01-06 11:20:07 ups, disregard the last message 2024-01-06 11:20:47 additional problem: further consequences: the aforementioned post-install script (which also includes upgrading to edge and updating grub), will result in a non-bootable system if a user does not run grub-install + a grub update _before_ using the post-install. the only way i can prevent this would be to hold back the new grub version in the script. less evil then a non-bootable 2024-01-06 11:20:53 system. it is frustrating after a for me necessary 3 month linux tinkering break. 2024-01-06 11:22:20 [ -n "$( find … )" ] || echo none found 2024-01-06 11:24:35 i think how Debian handles it is a good idea, show a curses interface stating changes and what to do, not saying that should be implimented but its a nice idea. I definetly didnt read the logs from my upgrade 2024-01-06 11:26:23 lopid ty! 2024-01-06 11:43:24 .. in my own case, see https://0x0.st/H6lg.txt - is: grub-install --target=x86_64 --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id=alpine --boot-directory=/boot --no-nvram / the correct way to do it? 2024-01-06 11:46:16 oleovit: there is a 2nd step 2024-01-06 11:46:29 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0#EFI 2024-01-06 11:49:53 @ikke thx, yes, i've read your new wiki entry today, thx for that. do you mean install -D ? 2024-01-06 11:50:04 yes 2024-01-06 11:51:15 and after that grub-mkconfig --output=/boot/grub/grub.cfg 2024-01-06 11:52:00 update-grub, which does that 2024-01-06 11:52:06 Forgot that, will add that 2024-01-06 11:55:56 regarding: install -D /boot/efi/EFI/alpine/grub$fwa.efi /boot/efi/EFI/boot/boot$fwa.efi 2024-01-06 11:56:39 as you see, i dont understand what you mean with fwa (firmware architecture) 2024-01-06 11:57:46 ah, x64 2024-01-06 11:59:39 oh, the link didn't copy correctly 2024-01-06 12:01:08 so, in my case, 2nd command: install -D /boot/efi/EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi /boot/efi/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi 2024-01-06 12:01:46 I would say so 2024-01-06 12:01:56 i hope it works. 2nd time afraid. so doas grub-install /dev/sda1 2024-01-06 12:02:13 was incomplete 2024-01-06 12:02:34 oleovit: have you tried following the steps under here - https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Bootloaders#GRUB 2024-01-06 12:02:57 i followed the steps for EFI boot and my system is up and running again 2024-01-06 12:03:57 once you make the config with # grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg then try rebooting 2024-01-06 12:05:26 I think I need to do this for my laptop as well 2024-01-06 12:05:57 yes, but at that time efibootmgr was not installed..and other problems.. . i try it now with the commands in the updated wiki. only grub-install /dev/sda1 saved me, i could boot. but i guess this was incomplete 2024-01-06 12:06:35 the last msg was @hazardchem 2024-01-06 12:08:33 @ikke before i do it, full of fear - do you know why grub-install /dev/sda1 "worked" yesterday (at least i could boot again) 2024-01-06 12:09:44 Only thing I can think of is that the default grub options work 2024-01-06 12:09:47 for you 2024-01-06 12:11:11 exact. for me. not for others. thats the problem with my public install.sh now. i will refer in the readme to the wiki-link. thats all i can do. 2024-01-06 12:11:23 But because --no-nvram is missing, it does mean it modifies boot vars, which is different from what setup-disk does 2024-01-06 12:12:53 @ikke so, i should execute the 2 commands we have now + update grub - reboot 2024-01-06 12:14:14 oleovit: One thing I don't know is whether you should clean up the efi boot vars 2024-01-06 12:14:27 assuming you use efi 2024-01-06 12:15:01 see output of some commands in: https://0x0.st/H6lg.txt 2024-01-06 12:15:17 hazardchem did you finish svkbd layout? 2024-01-06 12:15:27 i dont want to break it again 2024-01-06 12:17:32 scorpion2185: totally forgotten about that, can you remind me of what that was about? Or we can move it to #sxmo 2024-01-06 12:18:10 it was svkbd with wvkbd layoutù 2024-01-06 12:19:58 ah! i think I stopped working on that when I was having issues with dwm so I had to only use sway 2024-01-06 12:20:10 oleovit: I've updated the explenation of efi_directory with a command to confirm what it should be 2024-01-06 12:20:19 and then got distracted with a lock screen for sxmo 2024-01-06 12:20:57 ok, just to know 2024-01-06 12:23:28 @ikke thx for awk. yes, it's /boot/efi 2024-01-06 12:23:33 in my case 2024-01-06 12:23:40 right, for me it was just /boot 2024-01-06 12:25:18 so lets just do it. what can go wrong ;) 2024-01-06 12:25:48 I'm rebooting as well now 2024-01-06 12:26:07 good luck 2024-01-06 12:27:51 My laptop dies not 2024-01-06 12:27:59 Does not boot :-( 2024-01-06 12:28:05 ohh 2024-01-06 12:28:39 well... 2024-01-06 12:31:31 sorry for that :( . i have not run the commands yet. 2024-01-06 12:35:06 only have one laptop, i can't risk it, until it's clear what works. i guess, the boot vars are not updated, like you mentioned (--no-nvram was missing) 2024-01-06 12:40:18 make a live usb and keep it handy, saved me today 2024-01-06 12:41:50 ventoy it's good to make bootabel usb 2024-01-06 12:44:30 Ah, i forgot to run update-grub 2024-01-06 12:45:59 i'm cooking... oh, ok. plz tell me if it worked for you 2024-01-06 12:47:08 the wiki will then be a good source to link to 2024-01-06 12:51:26 @hazardchem my usb saved me too 2 days ago. i do not chroot (for now). i reinstall everything. just some setup-xy, git clone a post-install-script, run it, done. rsync backup /home/ from other disk, done 2024-01-06 12:52:08 i have to eat, pause 2024-01-06 13:03:01 oleovit: I'm away now as well and need to create a bootable usb 2024-01-06 13:04:45 @ikke ok, thx for the info. so i stay away for the moment executing these commands. i visit the chat later. 2024-01-06 14:22:53 oleovit: just running update-grub didnt seem to help 2024-01-06 14:23:53 @ikke do you mean qithout the additional params? 2024-01-06 14:24:00 "without" 2024-01-06 14:24:15 ah, update-grub 2024-01-06 14:25:55 grub-mkconfig --output=/boot/grub/grub.cfg is the same i guess 2024-01-06 14:27:38 oh my... 2024-01-06 14:30:47 Yes, update-grub makes a backup first 2024-01-06 14:31:44 yep, i confused it with grub-install 2024-01-06 14:33:16 oleovit: Ok, working again, apparently the bootx64.efi file was not upated properly 2024-01-06 14:33:38 So just following the instructions properly should work 2024-01-06 14:34:50 @ikke thx that you are working on this. so would you suggest that i try it with your instructions? i linked them already on my git 2024-01-06 14:35:52 oleovit: yes, but verify that /boot/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi matches /boot/EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi (or whatever the path is on your system) 2024-01-06 14:36:19 and the efivars? sometnig to clear? see: https://0x0.st/H6U6.png 2024-01-06 14:38:14 i don't want to hold you back from other work. i guess i simply have to do it. 2024-01-06 14:48:38 I have no experience with that 2024-01-06 14:52:19 I wiped EFI vars on both my laptop and desktop. Desktop found and added both grub and boot EFI binaries. Laptop only found boot EFI binary 2024-01-06 14:54:03 So at the least, behavior sheet clear can vary by machine 2024-01-06 14:55:38 @aijin_Naib[m] should i wipe it or simply execute ... 2024-01-06 14:58:04 na. i try it now with the commands @ wiki, end of file. if everything is messed up again, so be it. lets reboot then. 2024-01-06 15:14:02 grub-install --target=x86_64 --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id=alpine --boot-direc 2024-01-06 15:14:05 tory=/boot --no-nvram 2024-01-06 15:14:41 result 2024-01-06 15:14:44 grub-install: error: /usr/lib/grub/x86_64/modinfo.sh doesn't exist. Please specify --target or --directory. 2024-01-06 15:18:01 is te target "x86_64-efi" ? 2024-01-06 15:20:06 yes it was. everything done. now reboot. 2024-01-06 15:20:16 no err at least 2024-01-06 15:30:59 @ikke worked. reboot done. ... 2024-01-06 15:31:12 oleovit: nice, glad to hear 2024-01-06 15:32:46 I can't wait to see kde 6 anymore. Let's see what QT 6 can bring us. 2024-01-06 15:34:15 thx, the new wiki entry is important. maybe implementeting a warning to execute grub-install et cetera with every new grub-uprade would be important too. ok i am out 2024-01-06 15:34:49 zcrayfish, hi 2024-01-06 15:47:33 i am thinking of doing "create al rescue disk", this would be simple as putting a curated pkgs list to down for ram-based install 2024-01-06 15:47:45 based on howto as in, https://wiki.insteps.net/AlpineLinux/Create-what-is-only-needed-repo 2024-01-06 15:48:45 this downloadable list can be git-ified to keep up with rolling-release style 2024-01-06 15:51:35 pkgs similar to sys-rescuecd, finnix or grml, will try to add xfce 2024-01-06 15:53:37 theoritically creating an bootable/live iso from it is also possible 2024-01-06 15:59:10 hi @cristian_c 2024-01-06 16:03:08 zcrayfish, I've installed 3.19 again and entered desktop but I'm not able to use networkmanager 2024-01-06 16:03:32 zcrayfish, I've also followed https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/NetworkManager 2024-01-06 16:03:52 networkmanager is not able to scan wifi networks 2024-01-06 16:04:40 nmcli dev wifi rescan returns Error: No Wi-Fi device found. 2024-01-06 16:08:58 is there a way to add "never install package x" to world? so that any attempt to pull in something with x as a dep produces an error? 2024-01-06 16:11:47 dalias: apk add '!package' 2024-01-06 16:12:50 or add it as a virtual? 2024-01-06 16:13:22 I was told apk add !package, and that seems to have worked 2024-01-06 16:14:02 @cristian_c you have the firmware for that WiFi NIC? 2024-01-06 16:14:11 a virtual would satisfy the dependency iirc 2024-01-06 16:14:30 @vkrishn a GUI Alpine LiveUSB would make me very happy 2024-01-06 16:15:39 Saijin_Naib[m], yes 2024-01-06 16:15:52 Saijin_Naib[m], any other ideas? 2024-01-06 16:16:38 What groups is your user a member of? 2024-01-06 16:20:21 Saijin_Naib[m], user lp wheel audio video netdev plugdev 2024-01-06 16:30:42 ikke, thanks! 2024-01-06 16:30:45 # apk add '!polkit' '!polkit-common' 2024-01-06 16:32:19 has anyone any other ideas? 2024-01-06 16:55:34 apk deleted my old kernel modules but failed to upgrade the kernel 2024-01-06 16:56:47 how can I either get the old modules back or upgrade the kernel properly? 2024-01-06 16:57:13 there’s no network devices 2024-01-06 17:04:52 "there’s no network devices" <- I grab the packages from the apk mirror on another computer, flashdrive it over, apk add the package by full path 2024-01-06 17:05:06 Then later apk upgrade -al 2024-01-06 17:10:59 Saijin_Naib[m], any other ideas? 2024-01-06 17:12:01 Saijin_Naib[m]: which packages? linux-lts? 2024-01-06 17:12:41 cristian_c: What does rc-update show 2024-01-06 17:13:08 stonks3141: It can be painful to solve the deps all... but start with that, dev, and headers 2024-01-06 17:13:24 You may need to go back and forth to get all the depends 2024-01-06 17:13:44 Dont know how to fetch a package and all its depends autpmaticallt 2024-01-06 17:16:16 sorry, by "no network devices" I meant the drivers are missing 2024-01-06 17:19:57 Hmm... grab the linux-firmware-* apks? 2024-01-06 17:23:29 Saijin_Naib[m], rc-update without arguments? 2024-01-06 17:23:49 Yeah, lists all services in any runlevel 2024-01-06 17:23:58 ok, sorry 2024-01-06 17:24:09 rc-service -l lists all installed/available 2024-01-06 17:24:27 cristian_c: No need to apologize. I wasnt explicit. My bad 2024-01-06 17:29:58 Saijin_Naib[m], https://termbin.com/sa6x 2024-01-06 17:31:40 cristian_c: 🤷 2024-01-06 17:31:40 Looks right. I am unfortunately out of ideas then 2024-01-06 17:31:45 ok 2024-01-06 17:42:33 posted this in the wrong channel earlier, ikke: running update-grub shouldn't be necessary (as it was run by Grub post-upgrade already 2024-01-06 18:39:26 I tried `apk del linux-lts && apk add linux-lts-6.6.9-r0.apk` but after reboot uname still says 6.6.7 2024-01-06 18:44:34 stonks3141: Alpine installed in Sys-mode or run-from-ram? 2024-01-06 18:45:15 it’s a desktop install 2024-01-06 18:45:28 stonks3141: that's not what I asked 2024-01-06 18:46:10 sys-mode, who daily drives run-from-ram 2024-01-06 18:47:09 was there perhaps insufficient disk space when apk attempted to update your kernel? 2024-01-06 18:48:33 du says 35/300M used on /boot and 121/472G on / 2024-01-06 18:48:43 which Alpine version are you running? 2024-01-06 18:48:47 edge 2024-01-06 18:50:06 and have you been upgrading correctly (i.e. remembering to pass "-a / --available" option to "apk upgrade") to Releases and/or Edge since you 1st installed the system? 2024-01-06 18:51:17 no, I’ve been running apk upgrade with no flags 2024-01-06 18:51:20 originally apk upgrade updated my kernel but after reboot I was running a 6.6.7 kernel with no 6.6.7 modules 2024-01-06 18:51:46 I shouldn’t have to pass an obscure flag to avoid obliterating my kernel modules 2024-01-06 18:52:02 you should be using "-a / --available" any time you switch releases, including switching to Edge 2024-01-06 18:52:22 I have been on edge since first install 2024-01-06 18:52:35 stonks3141: how did you install Edge in the 1st place then? 2024-01-06 18:52:46 from a bootable usb 2024-01-06 18:53:29 and the bootable USB's contents was not once of the (non-Edge) published Alpine ISO downloads? 2024-01-06 18:54:16 it was a published ISO from alpinelinux.org 2024-01-06 18:54:25 i.e. if you go to the Alpine Linux download page there is no Standard or Enhanced ISO for Edge, only for Releases 2024-01-06 18:54:50 so you must have installed a Release and then upgraded to Edge 2024-01-06 18:54:56 how is that relevant to my problem? the system has been running fine, using edge repos, for a year 2024-01-06 18:55:25 stonks3141: fine, I'll leave you to figure it out yourself then... 2024-01-06 18:56:44 You are correct, I used a release ISO and switched to edge after installation 2024-01-06 18:57:38 I’m just confused because apk has always left the old modules in /lib/modules when upgrading the kernel, but this time it removed them 2024-01-06 19:14:23 Your software almost bricked my system. I’m unable to do any of the things I need to do. I’ve been answering all of your questions. I apologize for appearing frustrated and exceeding your (apparently low) tolerance for genuine questions. 2024-01-06 19:23:19 sounds like edge isn't what you should be running 2024-01-06 19:24:42 it's a development tree. if you're not comfortable with potential breakage, you shouldn't be on it. 2024-01-06 19:47:18 Fixed the problem, /boot wasn’t mounted 2024-01-06 19:47:39 wouldn’t have been a problem if the old modules hadn’t vanished though 2024-01-06 19:56:18 use the point releases they are great 2024-01-06 20:02:26 "use the point releases they..." <- Or use semi-rolling, set the apk sources to latest-stable endpoint. I liked that at lot early on 2024-01-06 20:11:49 thanks for the suggestions, but at least right now I need some things from edge 2024-01-06 21:58:25 Some feedback: would be nice if cryptsetup could be on the Alpine boot image 2024-01-06 21:58:36 I just had an unbootable system and couldn't fix it with the Alpine boot image alone 2024-01-06 21:59:07 No idea how I broke it, but booting the Debian rescue system, chrooting into my Alpine system with that one and running grub-install again fixed it. 2024-01-06 22:00:09 (symptom was seeing just early GRUB messages, then it rebooted right into UEFI setup, grub didn't respond to anything, even hammering the e key did not do anything) 2024-01-06 22:01:05 Yes, one can apk add from the Alpine image, but only if one gets network to work with, and on that laptop, that requires both a firmware file and an out-of-tree driver - I initially installed using a wifi stick instead, but still needed extra firmware files from a second flash drive 2024-01-06 22:01:16 s/with/first/ 2024-01-06 22:02:15 (pretty sure, although I don't really know how to confirm, I have the "extended" Alpine image and it still has no cryptsetup) 2024-01-06 22:02:27 divVerent: yeah, there's a known problem since the grub upgrade in edge, if you had reinstalled grub before rebooting it would have been okay... there's a mismatch between the config generated by 2.12 and the installed 2.06 grub 2024-01-06 22:03:00 so it was a known problem that blind apk upgrade wrecks the machine w/o any warning? 2024-01-06 22:03:02 That seems... broken. 2024-01-06 22:03:12 But yeah, that's what I did. 2024-01-06 22:03:40 but anyway, shit happens - would just be nice if shit could be fixed without needing a different distro first 2024-01-06 22:04:44 I'm not sure why there's no warning about it, but hopefully that gets fixed before the next release (i.e. it only bites people on edge and not releases) 2024-01-06 22:04:49 alpine-ext 3.19.0 x86_64 is what my boot image claims to be when I mount it, so it's the extended one - I presume if just cryptsetup were to be added (and lvm for some other users I guess), it'll be enough to chroot into a previously working Alpine system to fix it 2024-01-06 22:05:04 well, maybe there was a warning but it got lost among all the other spam 2024-01-06 22:05:28 it sure wasn't an interactive warning like "hit y to continue and acknowledge you're aware of this" 2024-01-06 22:06:13 given I have an akms module for the wifi chipset, it might be that there was a warning but it was not bottom-most or otherwise easy to notice either 2024-01-06 22:06:28 given that kernel module compiling usually is like 10 screenfuls 2024-01-06 22:06:40 divVerent: AFAIK it is Alpine policy that on package installs/updates it should NOT pause for user input, unlike in Debian 2024-01-06 22:06:55 yeah, but it should also be policy that upgrades don't wreck the system 2024-01-06 22:07:06 also I am working on a Grub packafe post-upgrade policy to display a warning 2024-01-06 22:07:07 I guess an option would be failing the upgrade and requiring a flag to acknowledge in such a case 2024-01-06 22:07:25 but anyway, my bigger issue is that the alpine-ext 3.19.0 x86_64 was insufficient to repair it 2024-01-06 22:07:31 and I had to boot a Debian image instead 2024-01-06 22:07:35 just so I can chroot into my system 2024-01-06 22:07:58 the underlying issue is that Alpine's Grub post-upgrade has *never* run grub-install and that was an "accident waiting to happen" that I warned about multiple times in the past 2024-01-06 22:08:08 yeah... that's understandable 2024-01-06 22:08:14 and Alpine also has no good way to display such a warning 2024-01-06 22:08:20 so I guess failing the upgrade is the only real option 2024-01-06 22:08:20 what's understandable? 2024-01-06 22:08:25 printing a warning to stderr won't do 2024-01-06 22:08:28 as it will likely be missed 2024-01-06 22:08:51 it's understandable that the current way of "grub config gets touched, grub bootloader not reinstalled" is... suboptimal 2024-01-06 22:09:13 "printing a warning to stderr won't do" - ok, I'll just stop work on my MR then... 2024-01-06 22:09:25 as for warnings, any warnings would at the very least have to be printed AFTER any other postinstall stuff 2024-01-06 22:09:28 so they're actually visible 2024-01-06 22:09:40 in particular needs to be after akms modules which spam LOTS of stdout 2024-01-06 22:10:01 anyway, my real request is - can we add the cryptsetup package to the install images? 2024-01-06 22:10:06 there's no way to do so if they're displayed by an individual package's post-upgrade script 2024-01-06 22:10:20 setup-alpine can use "cryptsys" for disk partitioning, so it's surprising that the same image with the installer can't mount it 2024-01-06 22:10:41 minimal: In theory there could be priorities or ordering of post-upgrade scripts 2024-01-06 22:10:48 so "critical" messages get to the end 2024-01-06 22:11:19 is there currently any logic for their ordering? Maybe naming something zz-foo is all it takes? The usual hack... 2024-01-06 22:11:24 "in theory".....current packaging mechanism doesn't provide that 2024-01-06 22:11:46 cryptsetup SHOULD be on the ISO as setup-disk specifically runs cryptsetup 2024-01-06 22:12:00 it's definitely not in PATH at least 2024-01-06 22:12:02 let me boot again 2024-01-06 22:12:49 ordering? the Grub post-upgrade script is inside the Grub package, the update/upgrade of each individual package is self contained 2024-01-06 22:13:51 on that boot image, find / -name cryptsetup finds nothing 2024-01-06 22:14:24 boot image (i.e. ISO)? on searching rootfs of booted ISO? 2024-01-06 22:14:28 hm... but there is a /media/sdb/apks/x86_64/cryptsetup-2.6.1-r0.apk 2024-01-06 22:14:30 s/on search/or searching/ 2024-01-06 22:14:34 yeah 2024-01-06 22:14:50 yes, you searched the ISO, not the runnnig rootfs 2024-01-06 22:14:56 ah, so the apk is there, and apk add cryptsetup finds it w/o network 2024-01-06 22:15:13 ok, I understand - I didn't expect to have to do that, but sure, that works, now I know 2024-01-06 22:15:32 the ISO is run-from-ram, so rootfs existing only in ram and it creates rootfs by installing from APK packages, like that cryptsetup one, on the ISO 2024-01-06 22:15:45 as for stable, I wonder if the problem can be avoided better than just with a warning people may miss (especially between releases, there could be so much text printed, it's easily missed) 2024-01-06 22:16:02 when you boot it then cryptsetup should be present 2024-01-06 22:16:13 like... any chance as a transition, the config could be written in a way that works with both version? 2024-01-06 22:16:19 after fresh boot cryptsetup is missing 2024-01-06 22:16:26 but then I can run apk add cryptsetup 2024-01-06 22:16:27 and it's there 2024-01-06 22:16:36 Grub? it is *NOT* a config issue 2024-01-06 22:17:00 oh, I thought the issue is "older already installed grub doesn't work with newer config" 2024-01-06 22:17:21 I don't understand how cryptsetup is missing after ISO boot as they setup-disk would fail if you then tried to do a LUKS install... 2024-01-06 22:17:28 if it were that, one could workaround by temporarily not using new features until the installed grub is updated 2024-01-06 22:17:52 I'm not gonna run setup-disk to try, but I vaguely remember that during setup apks get installed 2024-01-06 22:17:55 divVerent: that is one *possible* scenario for problem, not the only one 2024-01-06 22:19:05 but yeah, in general - if an edge upgrade occasionally makes the system unbootable with an easy fix, I guess that's fine; for stable version to stable version, that either shouldn't happen or at least be documented on some updating instructions + a warning 2024-01-06 22:19:55 so, I guess if it prints a warning at or near the end (as conspicous as possible) + an entry on next release notes, I guess that's fine 2024-01-06 22:20:11 speaking of "other spam possibly hiding the warning"... any chance akms can be turned more quiet? 2024-01-06 22:20:17 I don't NEED to know every file name it's compiling 2024-01-06 22:20:18 you're assuming people know about problems existing with a release (i.e. who tests *all* supported hardware and their possible configurations) 2024-01-06 22:20:32 can always add something to release notes AFTER release ;) 2024-01-06 22:20:48 open an Github Issue for the akms package? 2024-01-06 22:21:08 yeah, will do; it seems a more general thing 2024-01-06 22:21:17 kernel installing also eats a half screenful on upgrade 2024-01-06 22:21:34 if we want critical warnings at the end, we probably shouldn't spam it with other stuff 2024-01-06 22:21:39 divVerent: you mean like the 3.19.0 Release Notes mention of Grub aarch64 upgrade problem with incomplete solution? 2024-01-06 22:22:02 yeah 2024-01-06 22:22:15 there's no current method to have "critical" warnings at the end of package updates 2024-01-06 22:22:20 such an entry is probably the most important part for the concrete issue that broke the system 2024-01-06 22:22:30 yeah, I guess there's two general solutions to provide critical warnings 2024-01-06 22:22:47 a) declare by policy that postinstall scripts should be quiet / at most like 2 lines UNLESS they have a critical warning 2024-01-06 22:23:00 it wasn't a concrete issue, it was a Grub issue ;-) 2024-01-06 22:23:00 b) have a second round of post-scripts just for warnings and run them at the end 2024-01-06 22:23:04 (kinda like apt-listchanges) 2024-01-06 22:23:38 then raise your "proposal" as a Gitlab Issue? this channel isn't really the place to raise such things if you want to get them officially considered 2024-01-06 22:23:39 on my systems the only "verbose" post scripts are kernel installing (which runs grub-mkconfig) and akms compiling a kernel module 2024-01-06 22:24:00 yeah, will do on my next upgrade that has a new kernel so I have stuff to illustrate it with 2024-01-06 22:24:10 so, again, there is currently nothing like apt-listchanges in place 2024-01-06 22:24:49 indeed - my proposal, which I'll post on gitlab later when I have a "sample output" for it, would be basically about that 2024-01-06 22:24:58 thanks, now I understand more and can write the proposal later 2024-01-06 22:25:13 which would probably require changes to the "apk" tool 2024-01-06 22:25:29 some impls of that would, other impls could be done as a pure policy change 2024-01-06 22:25:48 (e.g. one could change grub, akms and other post-upgrade scripts to be less verbose and log their details to a file) 2024-01-06 22:25:58 anyway the Grub problem wouldn't have occurred in the 1st place if steps had actually been taken to prevent it... 2024-01-06 22:26:20 yeah; the grub problem seems to be a deeper problem to be honest 2024-01-06 22:26:28 it seems the system can't know HOW I ran grub-install in the past 2024-01-06 22:26:33 so it also can't really know how to rerun it 2024-01-06 22:26:35 well I did warn people months ago..... 2024-01-06 22:26:38 like which efi directory I installed to 2024-01-06 22:27:08 exactly, I raised exactly that point as part of a proposed "solution" 2024-01-06 22:28:18 and that's why the warning message I'm adding to Grub post-upgrade can only *suggest* the manual step(s) to fix the issue....as you have tweaked things during or after original installation 2024-01-06 22:29:16 indeed 2024-01-06 22:29:59 personally I'm guilty of having ended up with /boot/efi/EFI/alpine/ 2024-01-06 22:30:05 so if you diverge from the way setup-disk does things then you'd have to figure out yourself the required grub-install arguments to use 2024-01-06 22:30:30 efi mentioned twice in the path... probably isn't default, just happened that way from how I mounted the EFI partition (and not using it as /boot itself) 2024-01-06 22:30:32 for what? bootx64.efi file? 2024-01-06 22:30:44 don't remember if I did that or setup-disk did 2024-01-06 22:30:45 yes 2024-01-06 22:31:03 yeah, grubx86.efi is the only file in there 2024-01-06 22:31:09 no, that's a typical path as /boot/effs is the mountpoint, EFI/alpine are directories in the ESP 2024-01-06 22:31:45 setup-disk doesn't use grubx64.efi, it uses bootx64.efi (in the EFI/boot/ directory) 2024-01-06 22:31:56 there's also a windows bootloader in there, so I was careful not to touch anything else in there - there's also two dirs that definitely are wrong but I am too careful to touch them 2024-01-06 22:32:16 oh, your multi-booting......setup-disk doesn't handle that 2024-01-06 22:32:31 yeah, I may have skipped that step and done it manually 2024-01-06 22:32:42 to not ruin the preinstalled Windows which is the only way to get FW upgrades on this laptop 2024-01-06 22:32:50 so you're either use EFI boot variables or you've configured Grub for booting both Alpine and Windows... 2024-01-06 22:33:04 I sure messed with efibootmgr manually many times on this thing 2024-01-06 22:33:28 grub doesn't list Windows, but I can select it as boot-once from EFI setup, that's good enough for me there 2024-01-06 22:33:42 right, so then there's no way for my post-upgrade message to tell you the correct grub-install command args to use to fix the issue 2024-01-06 22:33:45 not important enough for me to fix 2024-01-06 22:33:51 indeed, at least not yet 2024-01-06 22:33:56 yet? 2024-01-06 22:34:00 the command is the default one 2024-01-06 22:34:11 what command is what default? 2024-01-06 22:34:31 I presume this will be done better in the future, by Alpine somehow taking over the grub-install command - that's a design change, though, but necessary sooner or later 2024-01-06 22:34:59 grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot 2024-01-06 22:34:59 is the exact command how I "repaired" it 2024-01-06 22:35:14 I don't see how you expect this to be happen unless setup-disk is extended to cater for more varying installation scenarios 2024-01-06 22:35:15 I assume that writes to the alpine subdir?> 2024-01-06 22:35:33 right, but that's NOT the default grub-install command that setup-disk uses for UEFI 2024-01-06 22:35:44 oh? Interesting 2024-01-06 22:35:50 I took that exact command just now from https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Bootloaders 2024-01-06 22:36:17 (well, sorry, that's NOT the command I used - I used --efi-directory=/boot/efi, so that's how it deviates) 2024-01-06 22:36:20 sigh, that's not the installer (setup-disk), that's a "random" wiki article written by a "random" person 2024-01-06 22:36:30 that one change is kinda "obvious" from fstab though 2024-01-06 22:36:43 yeah, I had "assumed" that the Wiki matches what the installer does 2024-01-06 22:36:50 given it's the official documentation of how to install manually 2024-01-06 22:37:03 official as in "on alpinelinux.org domain" 2024-01-06 22:37:07 am aware it's a wiki 2024-01-06 22:37:23 how does setup-disk do it differently then? 2024-01-06 22:37:25 the installer for UEFI does grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id-alpine --boot-directory=/boot --no-nvram 2024-01-06 22:37:36 ah, I see 2024-01-06 22:38:01 so _mostly_ compatible but more detailed; I already changed efi-directory, boot-directory I _presume_ is default, and --no-nvram means "someone else runs efibootmgr" 2024-01-06 22:38:21 bootloader-id I just now did not pass, so wonder where it actually wrote 2024-01-06 22:38:35 and it then also does "install -F /boot/efi/EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi /boot/efi/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi" which I expect *YOU* do NOT want it to do in your multiboot scenario (assuming the current bootx64.efi file is from Windows) 2024-01-06 22:38:49 yeah, definitely 2024-01-06 22:38:54 that'd make Windows fully unbootable 2024-01-06 22:39:12 I sure wouldn't want an automatic upgrade to do that 2024-01-06 22:39:30 that's highlight one example of why a Grub post-install script cannot magically run grub-install with the "right" args in all cases as it doesn't know the "right" args 2024-01-06 22:39:35 now curious what I have in efibootmgr as it worked without --bootloader-id 2024-01-06 22:39:45 yeah, before such a postinstall script can exist 2024-01-06 22:39:50 we'd first need a config file that contains the info 2024-01-06 22:40:07 and ~I trying to preemptively address this back in October to no avail... 2024-01-06 22:40:13 s/trying/tried/ 2024-01-06 22:40:15 otherwise it's basically near impossible, not sure if fully impossible (there MIGHT be ways to inquire how the system booted) 2024-01-06 22:40:32 you're describing my Oct MR *exactly* 2024-01-06 22:40:54 and yeah, I'm not even using that alpine/ dir at all 2024-01-06 22:41:05 apparently my real bootloader is in /boot/efi/EFI/grub/ 2024-01-06 22:41:08 gonna fix that then 2024-01-06 22:41:13 as bootloader-id is sure a good idea 2024-01-06 22:41:18 https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/merge_requests/53133 2024-01-06 22:41:37 read that and get a deja vu feeling... 2024-01-06 22:41:53 minimal: fyi, the MR is still marked as a draft 2024-01-06 22:43:29 ikke: I didn't progress after getting negative feedback 2024-01-06 22:44:57 some of that feedback: "UEFI systems should boot Linux directly, there’s no need for a legacy boot loader, let alone a complexity hell like GRUB2." 2024-01-06 22:45:04 I agree actually - but don't know how to do that 2024-01-06 22:45:13 I know EFI can theoretically boot a Linux kernel directly 2024-01-06 22:45:17 but not where to set up its boot flags 2024-01-06 22:45:29 that's feedback in the past day or 2, I'm referring to back when I raised the MR - there is feedback I received elsewhere than in that MR 2024-01-06 22:46:00 so I'm kinda stuck with GRUB, which seems to be a huge program all it really achieves is passing the right kernel command line 2024-01-06 22:46:09 (ok, and a fullscreen editor for the boot arguments in case I need to change them) 2024-01-06 22:46:15 nope, it does a lot more than that 2024-01-06 22:46:26 yeah, it does, but it shouldn't need to 2024-01-06 22:46:35 like encrypted /boot 2024-01-06 22:46:42 obviously it also mounts a file system, loads the kernel from there etc. 2024-01-06 22:46:48 like /boot on LVM 2024-01-06 22:46:50 but all this I could live without 2024-01-06 22:47:12 if the kernel lived on the EFI partition instead 2024-01-06 22:47:15 *you* can live without, but what about the varying users of Alpine? 2024-01-06 22:47:24 oh, I don't say nobody needs it 2024-01-06 22:47:29 from user perspective, grub is easy to work with 2024-01-06 22:47:31 what about BIOS users? 2024-01-06 22:48:01 grub is way overengineered, but even with secure boot - the kernel COULD live directly on the efi partition 2024-01-06 22:48:03 you're thinking of your specific use case rather than the multiple varying usecase of Alpine users out there 2024-01-06 22:48:10 ok, another fun issue: kernel on efi partition can eventually grow too big ;) 2024-01-06 22:48:21 Alpine doesn't currently officially support secure boot... 2024-01-06 22:48:27 that anyway 2024-01-06 22:48:31 more talking in theory 2024-01-06 22:48:42 encrypted /boot adds zero security if /boot/efi is open 2024-01-06 22:48:58 my point is that the installer caters for a narrow set of installation types 2024-01-06 22:49:02 sure 2024-01-06 22:49:05 and that's definitely fine 2024-01-06 22:49:09 and grub is a good choice for a default 2024-01-06 22:49:23 you're thinking UEFI again......BIOS has no ESP partition/filesystem... 2024-01-06 22:49:38 that too 2024-01-06 22:49:45 on BIOS something like grub is definitely necessary 2024-01-06 22:49:58 there all the stuff it does is most definitely NOT redundant - BIOS itself can just load 512 bytes 2024-01-06 22:50:01 kernel is bigger than that 2024-01-06 22:50:04 though Alpine defaults to using Syslinux on BIOS 2024-01-06 22:50:25 although IIRC the Linux kernel even has a builtin BIOS bootloader 2024-01-06 22:50:31 don't know anyone who actually uses that though 2024-01-06 22:50:39 you mean EFISTUB? 2024-01-06 22:50:47 wasn't there a BIOS one too? 2024-01-06 22:50:57 not that I'm aware of 2024-01-06 22:51:02 too long ago that I looked there, it seemed utterly pointless anyway 2024-01-06 22:51:07 as no kernel ever boots without 500 arguments 2024-01-06 22:51:25 EFISTUB at least kinda makes sense 2024-01-06 22:51:32 I once worked on IA64 systems back then 2024-01-06 22:51:36 as long as you use EFI boot variables 2024-01-06 22:51:36 and learned how EFI was really meant to work 2024-01-06 22:51:39 with command prompt etc. 2024-01-06 22:51:50 UEFI seems dumbed down version of the same 2024-01-06 22:52:08 like, same concepts, but command prompt replaced by a BIOS setup lookalike, and no way to specify boot args 2024-01-06 22:52:17 try using EFISTUB on a VM using a pre-existing disk image... 2024-01-06 22:52:27 (other than efibootmgr from an already running system) 2024-01-06 22:52:32 there's no EFI variables to rely upon 2024-01-06 22:56:11 anyway, added some thumbs up to that issue - this does need a solution in the long term - auto reinstalling GRUB (or, to be fair, any other bootloader) sounds like the right thing when config file changes can be incompatible 2024-01-06 22:56:32 obviously it's not trivial, but that's what the issue is about - a design change to store the info somewhere first 2024-01-06 22:58:03 Thank you for this work, and all! 2024-01-07 00:04:09 divVerent: yeah, what happens since ia64 is oems take tianocore and then just somewhat arbitrarily take things out 2024-01-07 00:04:41 so it's hard to know what uefi you've got, at least outside of server boards 2024-01-07 00:06:45 nobody except microsoft can actually make oems do anything 2024-01-07 00:46:16 Hello guys I have a big problem 2024-01-07 00:46:28 I updated my install and now I can't boot into it 2024-01-07 00:47:08 I can see "Welcome to GRUB" flashing for half a second before being thrown into the BIOS 2024-01-07 00:47:49 That's all the info I have, I don't know what to do please help me 2024-01-07 00:55:29 Please I beg for help 2024-01-07 00:55:51 do you have an ISO or something you can boot with to get access to the files? 2024-01-07 00:56:10 Yes, I already booted into it 2024-01-07 00:56:24 Should I mount the drive? 2024-01-07 00:56:26 can you chroot into the alpine installation? 2024-01-07 00:57:08 Doing that right away 2024-01-07 00:58:08 divVerent: UEFI is standardised whereas the likes of the EFI Apple originally used (not sure about what they use these days) was not 2024-01-07 00:58:52 ProblemHaver: make sure you set up a chroot correctly before running anything 2024-01-07 01:00:20 I mounted mnt, sys, dev and run 2024-01-07 01:00:23 Then I chrooted 2024-01-07 01:00:30 and /proc ? 2024-01-07 01:00:39 Oh yeah that too 2024-01-07 01:00:46 do you have an EFI System partition? 2024-01-07 01:00:47 and /boot ? (if separate) 2024-01-07 01:00:57 and ESP partition if UEFI ? 2024-01-07 01:01:05 I did not mount boot 2024-01-07 01:02:05 is boot a separate partition/filesystem? 2024-01-07 01:02:21 It's on a separate partition but I can see it in the chroot 2024-01-07 01:02:46 how can that be if you didn't mount it into the chroot? 2024-01-07 01:03:35 I don't know 2024-01-07 01:03:53 Now I mounted the boot partition and the files inside are different 2024-01-07 01:04:01 After chrooting 2024-01-07 01:04:12 it sounds like you put files in /boot on the root filesystem and you put files in / on the boot filesystem 2024-01-07 01:04:28 right, so it sounds like you have a "/boot" directory in your rootfs and also have a /boot filesystem as well - 2 different things 2024-01-07 01:04:35 is /boot in /etc/fstab? 2024-01-07 01:04:47 which one were you using when booting? 2024-01-07 01:05:13 I'm not sure, I just used the alpine installer 2024-01-07 01:05:24 But I suppose the one in the partition was used 2024-01-07 01:05:47 so then how did the separate boot partition/filesystem get created? 2024-01-07 01:05:53 It's in fstab 2024-01-07 01:06:08 I don't know, I didn't create anything 2024-01-07 01:06:29 are you booting with BIOS or UEFI? 2024-01-07 01:06:35 All I did was run `apk upgrade` and restart 2024-01-07 01:06:41 UEFI 2024-01-07 01:06:54 I was talking about when you first installed 2024-01-07 01:07:15 if the installer created a separate boot partition then it would be using it 2024-01-07 01:07:36 is /boot the EFI System partition? 2024-01-07 01:07:42 The installer made a separate boot partition, yes 2024-01-07 01:07:48 Yes it is 2024-01-07 01:07:58 a separate /boot partition or a separate ESP partition? 2024-01-07 01:08:01 I mounted it and chrooted 2024-01-07 01:08:18 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Bootloaders#GRUB has /boot as the EFI System partition 2024-01-07 01:08:51 in that case, try grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot, then grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg 2024-01-07 01:09:07 Oh now I'm not sure, the boot partition has a BackupSbb.bin file and an EFI directory 2024-01-07 01:09:25 it's probably an EFI System partition 2024-01-07 01:09:28 The /boot that was on the root partition had initframs 2024-01-07 01:09:37 raven523: that Wiki article is not necessarily rated to that the Alpine installer (setup-disk) does 2024-01-07 01:09:42 s/rated/related/ 2024-01-07 01:09:55 strange 2024-01-07 01:10:01 maybe this was meant to be mounted at /boot/efi? 2024-01-07 01:10:32 You're right 2024-01-07 01:11:10 in any case, you probably need to reinstall the kernel and initramfs, reinstall grub, and regenerate grub.cfg 2024-01-07 01:11:13 so you have both a boot partition mounted at /boot and a ESP partition/fs mounted as /boot/efi ? 2024-01-07 01:11:23 Alright I mounted the partition to /mnt/boot/efi, now I should be properly chrooted 2024-01-07 01:12:04 raven523: please don't recommend that people follow bootloader instructions from a "random" wiki article 2024-01-07 01:12:35 I have and ESP partition mounted on /boot/efi 2024-01-07 01:12:41 There was no boot partition 2024-01-07 01:12:55 minimal: sorry. I'll let you handle this 2024-01-07 01:13:37 I won't need a network connection for this right 2024-01-07 01:13:51 ProblemHaver: ok, misread your earlier IM about /boot 2024-01-07 01:14:05 nope, no connection needed 2024-01-07 01:14:17 but you need to decide what args to use for grub-install 2024-01-07 01:14:42 Is there a way to recycle the ones that alpine usually uses? 2024-01-07 01:14:53 Or at least check what args are there right now 2024-01-07 01:15:21 that depends on whether to have done anything "non standard" during or since you originally installed 2024-01-07 01:15:37 I haven't done anything 2024-01-07 01:15:51 Haven't touch anything that has to do with booting 2024-01-07 01:16:29 Could you walk me through the commands? I have never done this before 2024-01-07 01:16:35 there are no args "there right now". The args used when setup-disk ran grub-install were not recorded, and even if they were if you changed some aspected of OS config related to boot configuration then the original args might no longer be the correct ones to use now 2024-01-07 01:19:56 I can suggest the commands to run but I *cannot* guarantee that they are correct for your individual circumstances 2024-01-07 01:20:25 Please do, I don't think there's much else to break 2024-01-07 01:20:43 Do I just run `grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot`? 2024-01-07 01:21:09 so to clarify this is a x86_x64 (64bit) UEFI Alpine system? 2024-01-07 01:21:15 Yes 2024-01-07 01:21:25 do you have any other OSes installed on the same machine? 2024-01-07 01:21:28 No 2024-01-07 01:21:46 so in theory: 2024-01-07 01:22:38 grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id-id=alpine --boot-directory=/boot --no-nvram 2024-01-07 01:22:42 followed by: 2024-01-07 01:23:07 install -D /boot/efi/EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi /boot/efi/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi 2024-01-07 01:23:37 oops, correction, "--bootloader-id=alpine" 2024-01-07 01:25:42 Alright, I ran those commands and no errors were reported 2024-01-07 01:26:10 so then it should, in theory, reboot ok 2024-01-07 01:27:05 don't you also need to generate a grub.cfg? 2024-01-07 01:27:22 no,, that was generated when the grub package was updated 2024-01-07 01:27:50 with update-grub ? 2024-01-07 01:27:56 yes 2024-01-07 01:28:21 It worked! Thank you so much 2024-01-07 01:28:41 What might have caused this? All I did was update 2024-01-07 01:29:02 did you change anything in fstab or change anything in your BIOS setup? 2024-01-07 01:29:21 it is caused precisely because the Grub package update does NOT run grub-install 2024-01-07 01:29:26 Not at all 2024-01-07 01:30:00 All I did was update and reboot 2024-01-07 01:30:06 the only time grub-install is ever automatically run is by setup-disk during the original system installation 2024-01-07 01:30:19 in the future the grub.cfg could change but not in this case. 2024-01-07 01:30:58 What if grub updates? Isn't grub-install ran then? 2024-01-07 01:31:09 Because I haven't touched grub 2024-01-07 01:31:24 I'm on edge however, that might have to do something with it 2024-01-07 01:31:28 I just said: "...because the Grub package update does NOT run grub-install" 2024-01-07 01:31:29 yes it does. 2024-01-07 01:31:51 Oh sorry, phoneposting is hard 2024-01-07 01:32:07 I warned of this risk many months ago 2024-01-07 01:32:25 there's every chance that edge could break stuff in the future, it's for development and testing, so if you're not comfortable with that, don't run edge 2024-01-07 01:33:17 Yeah I was afraid of that since the beginning, but I have to run it because the main alpine repos have a version of libreoffice that looks like it's from 1995 2024-01-07 01:33:24 invoked: the general Grub issue is NOT Edge specific 2024-01-07 01:33:43 agreed, but it surfaced in edge 2024-01-07 01:33:54 people on aarch64 upgrade to Alpine 3.19.0 have also had a related Grub issue 2024-01-07 01:33:56 as most problems will (and hopefully should) 2024-01-07 01:34:06 so it surfaced previously at least once 2024-01-07 01:34:11 Is there a way to pull a single package and its dependencies from edge? 2024-01-07 01:34:37 ProblemHaver: if you're not running Edge then pulling stuff in from Edge is *not* supported 2024-01-07 01:34:48 don't mix repos 2024-01-07 01:36:13 I guess I'll sacrifice stability and run edge (solely because of the newer libreoffice version) 2024-01-07 01:36:30 At least I can announce bugs 2024-01-07 01:36:38 if you "live on the Edge" you have to be prepared for things breaking 2024-01-07 01:37:35 I have to go sleep guys it's 2:37 over here, thanks again for the help, I appreciate it a lot 2024-01-07 01:39:00 It is SLIGHTLY safe to install stuff from edge/testing on a released version, but definitely no edge/main or edge/community as most package names overlap and once it pulls dependencies, you are basically screwed 2024-01-07 01:39:46 divVerent: the issue is that most stuff in Edge will be dynamically linked against libs in Edge 2024-01-07 01:39:51 (but even edge/testing is only "safe" in the sense of "if it installs, it should at least do no major harm", but much stuff just won't work that way) 2024-01-07 01:40:42 minimal: exactly - so most stuff will plain not even install as apk will not be able to resolve version dependencies 2024-01-07 01:40:47 so if you try and run a package from Edge with related libs from a Release then its fairly likely the program will either not work at all or be unstable 2024-01-07 01:40:48 or even if it installs, it may just fail to start 2024-01-07 01:41:24 the use case for that combo is very limited, I once did that just to test my own package on the latest released version 2024-01-07 01:41:29 if you decide to pull in the deps from Edge then there's a risk that will break other non-Edge stuff as you can't have more than 1 versioned package installed for the same thing 2024-01-07 01:41:46 indeed 2024-01-07 01:42:00 that is basically either impossible or just will convert your entire system to edge 2024-01-07 01:42:12 so unless what you want to use from Edge is statically linked, the it probably won't work, plus you'll be in unsupported territory 2024-01-07 01:42:22 exactly 2024-01-07 01:42:47 but here you are anyway, supporting people in edge :) 2024-01-07 01:43:00 people often seem to want "Stable Edge" but there's no such thing 2024-01-07 01:43:25 invoked: nope, I'm support on a Grub issue that is not specific to Edge 2024-01-07 01:44:38 And yet edge is still more stable than Windows 10. I broke the Windows 10 on that same laptop - to no fault of Alpine at all (other than existing and taking up disk space). The grub issue was at least somewhat easy to fix, just had to learn how to work with the recovery image. 2024-01-07 01:44:53 So there's that ;) 2024-01-07 01:45:41 i run edge selectively, but i can fix things without making noise here, even if i'm not ultimately part of the solution 2024-01-07 01:45:49 I'll have a Grub MR raised hopefulyl in the next 30 mins or so to add a post-upgrade warning message with repair *suggestions* 2024-01-07 01:46:05 when i was at gentoo ages ago, people would unmask packages, etc and then beg for help and it gets tiresome 2024-01-07 01:46:06 I just need to test some more install config variants first 2024-01-07 01:46:35 thanks, that's definitely a good step 2024-01-07 01:47:13 I don't think it's really that useful a step - a partial automation solution would be better 2024-01-07 01:47:42 (and jftr I do not actually recommend anyone to rely on edge/testing packages on an otherwise stable system - even if it works, once the package transitions to edge/community it's over, as you definitely shouldn't even think about adding edge/community on a stable system, unless you currently use NOTHING AT ALL from community which is... unlikely) 2024-01-07 01:48:06 * is... unlikely - so it only ever makes sense to do that if you test your _own_ package) 2024-01-07 01:49:29 I guess though there's always docker/podman for those who want to experiment with franken-installs 2024-01-07 01:50:58 in fact, even to run a single app from edge on an otherwise stable system - https://gist.github.com/sham1/aa451608775d36fb55ebdbbc955bcb4d (never done this myself) explains a way how one could set that up 2024-01-07 01:51:28 "but I want to use a package that's only in Testing..." is often heard from people using a Release 2024-01-07 01:51:41 i.e. have a container running edge, and forward X11 sockets, maybe audio too, etc. 2024-01-07 01:52:16 kinda sad, this tutorial is about Xonotic as an example, which includes making 3D rendering work - nice - but doesn't handle audio? Weird. 2024-01-07 01:53:20 Probably all it takes is figuring out which env vars and files/sockets pipewire/pulseaudio use and it should work the same way - I guess that's the only actually "somewhat supported" way to run edge stuff on a stable install. 2024-01-07 01:53:46 docker is a whole different story, people doing "FROM alpine:latest" and then adding packages from various places, or doing "FROM alpine: sure, but at least it won't mess up your main system 2024-01-07 01:54:05 where they have no idea what version "latest" is.... 2024-01-07 01:54:30 or rather what version "latest" *was* at the time they built the docker image 2024-01-07 01:55:01 I'm referring to people who's only Alpine exposure/use is via containers 2024-01-07 01:55:38 I am kinda guilty of this too: https://github.com/divVerent/aaaaxy/blob/main/scripts/publish-release.sh#L65 ;) 2024-01-07 01:55:57 abusing podman basically just so I can run abuild -F checksum from the build machine for my game 2024-01-07 01:56:19 (ok, it also validates that it compiles) 2024-01-07 01:57:57 i assume everyone's going to be yocto'd out of their minds 5 years from now 2024-01-07 01:58:01 (not me, but maybe you) 2024-01-07 01:58:42 I hope not. But we'll see. 2024-01-07 02:02:20 invoked: Only yocto I know is in my 3DR Solo and its Artoo controller, and way out of date at that 2024-01-07 02:03:15 but OK, given Alpine kinda almost works on smartphones... (in form of postmarketOS, but on the Nexus 7 tablet I tried it on, none of the supported UIs worked at all - it did work on the shell with USB keyboard though, so there's that) 2024-01-07 02:04:02 sxmo almost worked, but permanently complained that it couldn't find a modem - no surprise, it's a tablet... 2024-01-07 02:06:16 divVerent: there is an env variable to tell sxmo that there isnt a modem, look under $HOME/.config/sxmo/profile 2024-01-07 02:06:31 too late, that was years ago and the tablet is gone now 2024-01-07 02:06:56 ah right 2024-01-07 02:07:05 but... I now have a semi-bricked Moto G7 Play lying around (lost mobile carrier capability)... maybe gonna try that before throwing it away 2024-01-07 02:07:57 that one at least has more RAM, so the more advanced UIs at least have a chance of working. They're just not gonna be great with touch input I guess. 2024-01-07 02:08:07 worth a shot! 2024-01-07 02:08:49 and maybe I'm even lucky and the SIM will work in there again, who knows. Sure gonna try. 2024-01-07 02:09:39 I just know it "broke" in lineageos, and also broken in what websites _say_ is the stock image but who knows if it actually is; at least on postmarketOS I might get an actual error message and not just "it does not work" 2024-01-07 02:16:34 phones and tablets with mobile hardware are a whole different kettle of fish from "normal" computers... 2024-01-07 02:19:10 a lot of telecoms-related info/specs are behind "paywalls" 2024-01-07 02:19:57 yeah, that anyway 2024-01-07 02:23:45 I spend years working in (mobile) telecoms infra, having to trawl through specs and deal with interoperability etc 2024-01-07 02:34:29 @minimal does install -D from minimal© install v2 need to be done if I copied boot to grub with minimal© install v1? 2024-01-07 02:34:50 "I spend years working in (mobile..." <- I only managed a small PBX and I hated it 🤣 2024-01-07 02:35:59 you mean copied *grub* -> boot? you said it the other way around 2024-01-07 02:36:37 grubx64.efi -> bootx64.efi 2024-01-07 02:37:13 "install -D" is just an alternative way of doing the from rather than using "cp" 2024-01-07 02:37:28 s/the from/the copy/ 2024-01-07 02:42:57 Yeah, did it right, recalled backwards, haha. 2024-01-07 02:42:57 Okay, so it isnt needed... thank you. Didnt know if it did someyjing better 2024-01-07 02:45:00 sigh, the "joy" of trying to write simple shell code to work out the underlying device name that a /dev/mapper/ entries is actuall stored on... 2024-01-07 06:03:12 my ssd becomes slow/inoperable during generation and deletion of ~20k files, ionice seems to have no effect; any advice for how to limit I/O impact so the rest of the system can stay happy? 2024-01-07 06:03:42 i've moved the operation to an nvme array, but it'd be sweet to be able to localize everything on the same system 2024-01-07 06:46:29 Anyone able to get gaming through *flatpak steam* working? This seems to be the one barrier for me i cannot solve. No games, native or proton, will run. 2024-01-07 06:47:24 gamingirc: which alpine version? 2024-01-07 06:48:00 3.19 2024-01-07 06:48:07 also, i assume you're using com.valvesoftware.Steam from flathub, version 1.0.0.78 (current latest)? 2024-01-07 06:48:29 Correct 2024-01-07 06:49:10 The game starts, steam says it's running, but a window never shows up. 2024-01-07 06:49:22 if you run it with `flatpak run com.valvesoftware.Steam` in a terminal, does it print anything interesting in the logs when you try to launch a game? 2024-01-07 06:49:38 oh, which window manager / desktop environment are you using? 2024-01-07 06:49:49 Sway 2024-01-07 06:50:34 The logs from running it in the terminal weren't interesting. But when a game was run with PROTON_LOG=1 I would get these two lines near the bottom of the log 27818.186:0020:010c:err:winediag:nodrv_CreateWindow Application tried to create a window, but no driver could be loaded. 27818.186:0020:010c:err:winediag:nodrv_CreateWindow L"Make sure that your X server is running and that $DISPLAY is set correctly." 2024-01-07 06:51:06 I checked $DISPLAY inside the flatpak container, and it seems to be set properly (:0) 2024-01-07 06:52:17 hm, try running `xhost +` in a terminal and restarting steam? 2024-01-07 06:52:31 alright 2024-01-07 06:53:11 xhost isnt a command. Do I need an xorg package for that 2024-01-07 06:53:33 just xhost 2024-01-07 06:53:35 as in 2024-01-07 06:53:39 it's in a package named xhost 2024-01-07 06:53:43 gotcha 2024-01-07 06:55:36 Proton games are still failing with the same error 2024-01-07 06:56:38 Its weird because if I force flatpak librewolf to run under x11, or flatseal, they run just fine under xwayland 2024-01-07 07:04:13 Happens both on my installation on an laptop with intel and an igpu, as well as a pc with intel and amd gpu. So I don't think it's hardware related 2024-01-07 08:38:49 hi. grub again. one tiny question: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 worked. everything seems to be updated. the tiny q: would it be wise to add --recheck as well? 2024-01-07 09:08:41 sry, i guess no, after reading confusing ubuntu/manjaro/arch etc. forum posts. wish a nice sundday. 2024-01-07 17:16:00 oleovit: why would you consider using "--recheck" for grub-install? 2024-01-07 17:17:05 inedia: are you TRIMming your SSD? (whether at intervals via a cronjob or via a mount option) 2024-01-07 17:17:18 how full is your SSD? i.e. percentage used? 2024-01-07 17:17:52 did you leave any unprovisioned space on the SSD? 2024-01-07 18:32:04 minimal: i have not been TRIMming, i'll look into that, thank you! the disk is at ~60% capacity 2024-01-07 18:34:03 inedia: in general you should be TRIMming SSDs. It is typically recommended to do it via cron (i.e. weekly). 2024-01-07 18:34:34 minimal: understood; and fstrim, for instance, is safe to run against a mounted partition on regular intervals? 2024-01-07 18:34:49 lack of TRIMming is likely to affect the performance of SSDs over time due to the way that SSDs work 2024-01-07 18:36:34 inedia: in theory yes 2024-01-07 18:36:56 some brands/models of SSD have been know to have buggy TRIM support 2024-01-07 18:37:59 personally when I first use an SSD I only partition 90% of the device and leave the remaining 10% unallocated to "help" the SSD controller 2024-01-07 18:38:34 Most buggy part is continuous trim iirc 2024-01-07 18:40:10 minimal: sweet, thank you again for your help! 2024-01-07 18:40:39 also are you using LVM or LUKS encryption? if so then you need to ensure their config is suitable for TRIM to make it through to the SSD 2024-01-07 18:42:38 you can check if TRIM is supported by a device by running "lsblk -D" and looking at the DISC-GRAN and DISC-MAX values for your device - if they are non-zero then it supports TRIM (aka discard) 2024-01-07 18:43:46 minimal: i'm using LUKS in the VM, but the host is not; DISC-GRAN and DISC-MAX are non-zero 2024-01-07 18:44:14 is it sensible to think trimming on the host is sufficient, or should i do so from the VMs as well? 2024-01-07 18:45:25 I think you meant to ask "do/should TRIMs/discards in a VM result in TRIMs/discards on the host machine?" and that depends on various things.... 2024-01-07 18:45:38 hi everyone. hope i'm not repeating a faq. haven't upgraded in a few months, on stable in apk/repositories. i now get a glibc error when launching mosh, and apk upgrade keeps telling me that ERROR: shared-mime-info-2.4-r0.trigger: script exited with error 127. 2024-01-07 18:45:44 even apk fix doesn't fix it. 2024-01-07 18:45:46 minimal: that's right, yeah 2024-01-07 18:45:59 (I upgraded a few hours ago, fwiw) 2024-01-07 18:46:04 including how the VM is stored on the host machine - QCOW file? SSD device passed through to the VM? etc 2024-01-07 18:46:31 wart_: glibc error? Alpine doesn't use glibc 2024-01-07 18:46:32 qcow, yes; my plan was to run fstrim regularly on the host 2024-01-07 18:47:44 yeah weird, right? Error relocating /usr/bin/mosh-client: _ZSt21__glibcxx_assert_failPKciS0_S0_: symbol not found 2024-01-07 18:48:04 i tried apk del mosh and apk add mosh just to see and same problem 2024-01-07 18:49:01 afaik its the only program bugging out, and it seems like it should be unrelated to the shared-mime-info bug. 2024-01-07 18:49:06 inedia: QCOW files can be sparse, however if the VM isn't doing TRIM/discard then they're the QCOW is not likely to be sparse over time 2024-01-07 18:49:26 also fwiw its been so long since i upgraded it upgraded 1500 packages and i didnt read everything closely before rebooting :P so maybe i had to manually do some things? 2024-01-07 18:50:25 the full mosh error is this: http://sprunge.us/0SdzMN 2024-01-07 18:53:46 wart_: upgraded from which version to which version? 2024-01-07 18:53:52 of Alpine I mean 2024-01-07 18:54:40 minimal: according to /etc/os-release i'm on 3.19.0. tbh i forget what version i was on before. I don't think i've upgraded since september, so maybe 3.15? not sure 2024-01-07 18:55:16 i use the 'latest-stable' in my repositories file. 2024-01-07 18:56:37 i upgraded with -aiv since it was a major release (and its what i usually do) 2024-01-07 18:59:06 after doing an "apk update" first? 2024-01-07 19:01:29 cyep 2024-01-07 19:01:43 apk update && upgrade upgrade -aiv 2024-01-07 19:02:06 it then updated 1500 packages or so. I got that shared-mime-info error, and tried apk fix. 2024-01-07 19:02:10 rebooted and tried apk fix again 2024-01-07 19:03:19 unrelated: what's -i? 2024-01-07 19:03:46 fluix: 'interactive' prompts you with a y/n :) 2024-01-07 19:04:07 now how did I miss that in `man apk`... thanks! 2024-01-07 19:04:46 wart_: does the file /usr/bin/update-mime-database exist? 2024-01-07 19:05:05 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 67904 Nov 13 11:22 /usr/bin/update-mime-database 2024-01-07 19:05:07 yep 2024-01-07 19:05:42 that's what the trigger runs. The error 127 is "command not found" 2024-01-07 19:05:52 interesting: Error relocating /usr/bin/update-mime-database: _ZSt21__glibcxx_assert_failPKciS0_S0_: symbol not found 2024-01-07 19:06:09 what the heck is going on, lol! 2024-01-07 19:06:25 now i wish i had read the output of apk upgrade more carefully 2024-01-07 19:09:13 it's probably not a good idea to do a jump like 3.15.x -> 3.19 2024-01-07 19:09:36 just as a general comment 2024-01-07 19:11:07 yeah didn't realize how busy you'all have been in the last six months :) 2024-01-07 19:11:09 whilst if changes are made to various packages in a particular release their pre-upgrad/post-upgrade may have checks added to deal with impacts during upgrades such "checks" may only consider the "way things were done" for a few previous releases 2024-01-07 19:11:29 better to hop via intermediate releases in my opinion 2024-01-07 19:11:52 AND read the Release Notes for each intermediate release 2024-01-07 19:15:51 ok checking my logs i was on 3.18.2. 2024-01-07 19:16:11 last update was 07-06-2023 2024-01-07 19:19:53 i wonder if it has to do with the python changes in 3.19.0 2024-01-07 19:34:46 hmm, mosh - curiously it has 44 c++ package dependencies ugh.... see if I can repro you issue; kinda think we need a mosh replacement :-) 2024-01-07 19:35:09 uses abseil-cpp library i guess 2024-01-07 19:36:35 yeah, i haven't looked at mosh code in a while. but update-mime-types is a pretty simple xorg program without strange dependenceis afaik 2024-01-07 19:38:00 https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/tree/main/shared-mime-info/APKBUILD 2024-01-07 19:40:16 it depends on libstdc++ as does mosh-client 2024-01-07 19:40:42 i installed it fine on edge .. it's a dynamic library, what missing libs show up from "ldd /usr/bin/update-mime-database" ? 2024-01-07 19:40:55 err, dynamic linked binary, sry 2024-01-07 19:43:12 http://sprunge.us/pGpSeh 2024-01-07 20:01:04 i have the same list but version nos are a little different is all. looks like a version incompat thing, i would probably just try uninstalling an reinstalling that and some of its dependencies; good luck 2024-01-07 20:02:43 thanks 2024-01-07 20:21:09 hi there! I might have been too naive by just running ¨apk upgrade¨ the other day, but I think I´m affected by the breaking GRUB-changes for ARM. These are mentioned here (https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/issues/15263), here (https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/ncopa/alpine-mksite/-/commit/4ab5e66592054e2078b804c00c36f96454e7749a, here (https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/issues/15557#note_363246), and he 2024-01-07 20:21:09 re (https://alpinelinux.org/posts/Alpine-3.19.0-released.html). Most/all of these mention to run ¨grub-install¨ but how would I do this if I have already rebooted and can now no longer boot into Alpine Linux as GRUB appears broken? 2024-01-07 20:22:55 Guest13204: did you read the 3.19.0 Release Notes "Upgrade Notes" section before upgrading? 2024-01-07 20:24:20 @minimal I had not, being used to other distro´s I did not expect a breaking change to occur upon updating software packages. I´ve learned from this, but would very much like to restore to a working state. 2024-01-07 20:25:35 Guest13204: are you using 3.19 or edge? 2024-01-07 20:25:43 the Upgrade Notes are there for a reason... e.g. 3.19.0 also raised the mimimum CPU requirements for x64/x86_64 2024-01-07 20:26:36 hmm, that's not mentioned in the 3.19.0 Release Notes... 2024-01-07 20:26:42 it should be 2024-01-07 20:26:48 @minimal that makes sense, and I will absolutely make sure to read hem the next time _before_ running ´apk upgrade´ 2024-01-07 20:27:25 Guest13204: Within a stable release, it should not be necessary. Only when switching to a new release, or when running edge 2024-01-07 20:27:28 @ikke let me check, I was able to mount the boot drive of the fauly VM to a new Ubuntu VM in OCI. I think it was edge 2024-01-07 20:27:38 Ok, edge can break at any moment 2024-01-07 20:27:56 well you'll have to boot your machine some other way (i.e. via USB stick) and then chroot (correctly) into the Alpine installation and run grub-install manually 2024-01-07 20:28:23 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 2024-01-07 20:28:32 Guest13204: did you already post a question about this on Reddit? Sounds like a post I noticed there 2024-01-07 20:29:20 @minimal I have, last night 2024-01-07 20:29:44 ok, so it is the one I noticed. 2024-01-07 20:30:09 I came here because this IRC channel is listed as official community, whereas the Reddit is not 2024-01-07 20:30:17 (on the Alpine Linux website, that is) 2024-01-07 20:30:47 indeed, I don't a Reddit account and wouldn't create one just to reply to a single post 2024-01-07 20:37:32 @ikke /etc/release in the (now mounted to a Ubuntu VM) Alpine Linux filesystem states: 2024-01-07 20:37:55 VERSION_ID=3.20.0_alpha20231219 2024-01-07 20:38:23 yeah, that's edge 2024-01-07 20:38:39 interesting, I don´t recall installing / configuring it to be ¨bleeding edge beta¨ on purpose 2024-01-07 20:39:00 check the /etc/apk/repositories file 2024-01-07 20:40:20 contains v3.17 and three identical copies of /edge/main 2024-01-07 20:41:01 uncommented entries? 2024-01-07 20:41:03 dont know how they got up there, probably won´t find out either, but makes sense that upgrading to said release train may break things without (much) warning 2024-01-07 20:41:44 yeah, I don think I can copy/paste multiline stuff here in IRC - any tips on where I could dump stuff? pastebin for example? 2024-01-07 20:41:59 https://tpaste.us 2024-01-07 20:43:45 https://pastebin.com/UXKPyAkP 2024-01-07 20:44:37 almost looks like something appended the three edge repositories to the file, four times in a row 2024-01-07 20:46:18 yeah that doesn't look good 2024-01-07 21:05:27 Is there any interest from Alpine packagers to adopt modern CPU features (like avx2) like Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, and RHEL are switching to soon? 2024-01-07 21:06:33 Ex. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Fedora-40-Faster-x86-64 2024-01-07 21:07:40 Sofia: Alpine only just raised the minimum x86/x86_64 requirements in Alpine 3.19/Edge 2024-01-07 21:07:47 https://www.phoronix.com/review/ubuntu-x86-64-v3-benchmark 2024-01-07 21:08:01 minimal: Oh? 2024-01-07 21:08:52 yes, now needs SSE2 and CMOV 2024-01-07 21:09:19 for some reason it was now mentioned in the Release Notes 2024-01-07 21:09:22 s/now/not/ 2024-01-07 21:09:40 ACTION just checking those... 2024-01-07 21:09:44 Sounds like that should be fixed. 2024-01-07 21:09:57 So no AVX2 et al yet? 2024-01-07 21:10:35 as *requirements*? that would mean many people would have hardware they could no longer use with Alpine 2024-01-07 21:11:35 hi 2024-01-07 21:12:18 Sofia: there's mention in https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Requirements in the x86 row of the "Architectures" table 2024-01-07 21:13:21 alpine linux, no probleme with cherry trail atom x5 8300, very small pc 2024-01-07 21:13:31 I thought the SSE2 + CMOV requirements also applied to x86_64 too (I'm assuming there are some x86_64 CPUs that might not actually support those) 2024-01-07 21:14:05 sse2 came around in like p4 era 2024-01-07 21:14:09 must have a light and optimized systeme for have a good performance with X and video 2024-01-07 21:14:45 minimal: Ubuntu, Fedora, et al are adding variants to tune for different eras of hardware. RHEL is dropping older support entirely. 2024-01-07 21:15:37 Sofia: and you think it would be a good idea for Alpine to drop all x86/x86_64 CPUs that don't support AVX2? 2024-01-07 21:15:52 ubuntu, debian run on, but i think these are quite heavy distributions in fact 2024-01-07 21:16:00 RHEL has a different customer base tho, you'd expect not to have ancient hardware around. most distros are not in that position 2024-01-07 21:16:04 I'm sure I have some boxes running Alpine with no AVX2 capable CPU 2024-01-07 21:16:07 lubuntu too 2024-01-07 21:16:15 So I guess a question of packaging infrastructure increased load vs. the ~10% performance boost. 2024-01-07 21:16:39 minimal: No, I was suggesting more a la Ubuntu and Fedora to keep and expand rather than RHEL to force drop. 2024-01-07 21:16:58 keep and expand? 2024-01-07 21:17:08 sure i haven't test fedora.... 2024-01-07 21:17:44 > The x86-64-v3 micro-architecture feature level makes AVX/AVX2 support assumed by default as well as other modern x86_64 ISA features typically common of AMD and Intel processors the past number of years (with exceptions). 2024-01-07 21:18:00 Maintaining separate series. 2024-01-07 21:18:31 At the moment we don't have the infrastructure or bandwidth to support another x86_64 build 2024-01-07 21:18:36 Sofia, readable as "duplicate workflows needed to branch supported features" 2024-01-07 21:18:50 you mean packaging multiple "versions" of each package build with different CPU options? I don't believe there is any APK support for that currently 2024-01-07 21:19:34 ok, thk for advice 2024-01-07 21:19:34 Yes, something like that. 2024-01-07 21:20:10 or you mean, as ikke mentioned, having completely separate "x86_64-basic" and "x86_64-advanced" versions of Alpine? 2024-01-07 21:20:11 bandwidth meaning developer bandwidth, not developer 2024-01-07 21:20:12 look my cpu flag ryzen 5 6600H 2024-01-07 21:20:15 lags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc rep_good nopl nonstop_tsc cpuid extd_apicid aperfmperf rapl pni pclmulqdq monitor ssse3 fma cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic movbe popcnt aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw 2024-01-07 21:20:15 ibs skinit wdt tce topoext perfctr_core perfctr_nb bpext perfctr_llc mwaitx cpb cat_l3 cdp_l3 hw_pstate ssbd mba ibrs ibpb stibp vmmcall fsgsbase bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 erms invpcid cqm rdt_a rdseed adx smap clflushopt clwb sha_ni xsaveopt xsavec xgetbv1 xsaves cqm_llc cqm_occup_llc cqm_mbm_total cqm_mbm_local clzero irperf xsaveerptr rdpru wbnoinvd cppc arat npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save tsc_scale vmcb_clean 2024-01-07 21:20:17 flushbyasid decodeassists pausefilter pfthreshold avic v_vmsave_vmload vgif v_spec_ctrl umip pku ospke vaes vpclmulqdq rdpid overflow_recov succor smca fsrm 2024-01-07 21:20:21 not network* 2024-01-07 21:20:41 very lot of flag........ 2024-01-07 21:21:11 I already know people who shy away from alpine as they fear the slowdown from the hardened allocator. Can imagine how many would shy away from further performance decrease. Though I don't imagine alpine is much about chasing the performance-critical market share. Even when I feel anyone who cares about performance should actually just use alpine for many other reasons. 2024-01-07 21:22:13 cool avx2 :D hard to find this..... 2024-01-07 21:22:18 Only reason I haven't been using Alpine for years was due to glibcisms polluting software. Fortunately between gcompat, flatpak, chroots, and distrobox; no longer really an issue (though I was using the chroot option previously) 2024-01-07 21:22:19 Sofia: what "performance decrease"? you're referring to a potential performance *increase* if things are built to support instructions like AVX2 2024-01-07 21:22:46 minimal: Vs. other distros closer supporting the hardwares' capabilities. 2024-01-07 21:23:18 If alpine stays behind, others appear faster. 2024-01-07 21:23:20 Note that some projects build with avx2 support and detect at runtime that it's available 2024-01-07 21:23:46 ikke: Yes and any where it actually matters should seriously do this but too few do. 2024-01-07 21:24:58 What would be easier. 1) Increasing packaging work for more targets. 2) benchmarking and patching each package where the difference is significant. 2024-01-07 21:25:08 @minimal and @ikke: I think I´ve seen enough not to continue my efforts to try and restore the existing install (too much unknown territory for my appetite); I will rebuild from scratch and take this new experience and make sure not to make the same mistake again. Thank you for your help. 2024-01-07 21:25:18 ACTION thinks 1 is easier, though 2 would be better (modulo costs of dynamic checks) 2024-01-07 21:27:11 ACTION notes this upgrade breakage for Guest13204 and switches her /latest-stable/ back to /3.19/. 2024-01-07 21:27:11 and as ikke already pointed out creating a new "advanced" x86_64 Alpine version, whilst keeping the existing one too, is not possible due to infrastructure and developer time overheads 2024-01-07 21:27:44 avx2 --> SIMD not easy to understand SIMD.... 2024-01-07 21:28:03 ACTION nods, unfortunate. 2024-01-07 21:28:57 and are you talking about creating just *one* more version with many/all of the "advanced" CPU instructions? or multiple ones? 2024-01-07 21:29:29 i.e.. what about instructions only supported on latest CPUs? or on server-class CPUs? 2024-01-07 21:31:51 avx2 good for linux raid, and gimps, cool 2024-01-07 21:32:02 and some other 2024-01-07 21:32:16 minimal: I was thinking just one more. Another option, a hybrid of (1) and (2) enumerated above, to case-by-case promote relevant packages in another repo taking precedence when there are cross-repo collisions. 2024-01-07 21:32:18 i wait dl fedora.... 2024-01-07 21:32:43 (2) requires recognizing which packages matter but (1) is as simple as another build vs. (2) updating the code to be dynamic. 2024-01-07 21:32:54 i have create a mqtt server with alpine on docker, very good 2024-01-07 21:33:08 Updating the code benefits everyone but this hybrid would work when such updates are too much to ask for. 2024-01-07 21:33:19 and i test in kvm now, i think very good distro 2024-01-07 21:34:32 possibly netbsd, is the best way for very small pc 2024-01-07 21:34:49 Sofia: "(1) is as simple as another build" - it's not simple as ikke pointed out 2024-01-07 21:36:08 linux is the best with xen for virtualization, netbsd possibly for all arch 2024-01-07 21:36:28 I meant simpler contrast to (2) 2024-01-07 21:40:30 minimal: I think the hybrid approach would work well with minimal changes? Only another repo with the same architecture URL format, just significantly fewer packages, as-needed when benchmarks demonstrate the difference matters (and dynamic code to adapt isn't implemented by the project upstream; and patching that would be too much effort) 2024-01-07 21:41:21 Or just maintain a list for users who care to manually update flags and build the specific packages personally. 2024-01-07 21:42:57 Thank you very much for your help, have a good evening, day, night! 2024-01-07 21:50:09 Anyone able to get gaming on flatpak steam to work? 2024-01-07 21:50:50 Yes. 2024-01-07 21:51:04 gamingirc: What issues are you having? 2024-01-07 21:51:31 I had unknown issues but they resolved after some fiddling around but I'm not sure if anything I did fixed it or if it fixed itself. 2024-01-07 21:52:11 I'm using swaywm and flatpak with several things, including steam to play some games with my girlfriend. 2024-01-07 21:52:40 Im on Alpine 3.19. Flatpak works great, I can run x11 applications and wayland applications. But with steam, when i start a proton game, I get an error in the proton logs: 4700.854:0020:010c:err:winediag:nodrv_CreateWindow Application tried to create a window, but no driver could be loaded. 4700.854:0020:010c:err:winediag:nodrv_CreateWindow L"Make sure that your X server is running and that $DISPLAY is set correctly." 2024-01-07 21:52:49 Also im running on sway as well 2024-01-07 21:53:09 I haven't touched proton yet. 2024-01-07 21:53:10 Steam will say the game is running, but no window ever shows up 2024-01-07 21:53:32 ACTION points at the lower section of running glibc things wiki article. 2024-01-07 21:53:59 Oop wrong article 2024-01-07 21:54:08 Ive read that article and i tried both distrobox and flatpak and neither worked 2024-01-07 21:54:35 distrobox is also very finicky so im trying to get flatpak working mostly 2024-01-07 21:54:40 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Sway#Steam_games_launched_via_Proton_crash_before_creating_a_window 2024-01-07 21:54:43 Well that sounds fitting 2024-01-07 21:56:16 I had seen something about xauth things. 2024-01-07 21:56:22 Yeah i've tried different proton versions and none seem to fix the issue. Also com.valvesoftware.Steam.CompatibilityTool.Proton-Exp is end of life, as it says when you download it. So maybe the article needs updating 2024-01-07 21:56:33 Ah 2024-01-07 21:56:46 You have xwayland? 2024-01-07 21:56:51 yeah 2024-01-07 21:57:14 Running Librewolf through xwayland works great 2024-01-07 21:57:20 the flatpak version 2024-01-07 21:57:26 so idk why steam has an issue 2024-01-07 21:58:18 Oh I was right with the first wiki search. glibc page. `xhost +si:localuser:$USER` 2024-01-07 21:58:33 i will try that 2024-01-07 21:59:24 Might need some flatpak --options instead, like my girlfriend uses drawpile and I tried that but needed to add --socket=wayland to get it to open under wayland, or with --env=QT_QPA_PLATFORM=xcb to use X anyway. 2024-01-07 22:00:55 That option doesnt seem to fix it 2024-01-07 22:01:15 Ive tried giving it tons of extra permissions with Flatseal, but that doesn't help it either 2024-01-07 22:03:26 ACTION nods 2024-01-07 22:04:18 Even native games don't seem to function properly 2024-01-07 22:04:40 I can confirm portal & portal 2 run. :) 2024-01-07 22:04:53 Valve games may be a bit biased for good support heh. 2024-01-07 22:05:20 I have those, i will try portal 1 2024-01-07 22:05:45 Though I need to figure out the sway input settings because my trackpad stops moving when I type... which doesn't help when you try to play the game with trackpad. :p 2024-01-07 22:06:10 thats an easy fix, one sec lemme look at my config 2024-01-07 22:06:36 input type:touchpad { dwt disabled } 2024-01-07 22:06:52 disables disable-while-typing 2024-01-07 22:09:02 Ohh thanks <3 2024-01-07 22:09:11 you're welcome 2024-01-07 22:09:12 Suspected that dwt was this but didn't get to the docs yet :) 2024-01-07 22:09:57 never understood why that was the default anyways 2024-01-07 22:10:32 "I'll help anyone interested on how to earn 100k in just 24hours from the crypto market. But you will have to pay me my commission! when you receive your profit! if interested click on the group link and send me a direct message 2024-01-07 22:10:32 https://t.me/+FGhsj-vpp7dmZDc0 2024-01-07 22:10:32 by asking me HOW 2024-01-07 22:11:33 lol bot 2024-01-07 22:14:11 gamingirc: Time to diff my old and new default sway configs and tweak to the better subsets. :) 2024-01-07 22:16:19 i have trouble keeping my configs synced between laptop and PC 2024-01-07 22:17:32 heyt 2024-01-07 22:17:34 hey 2024-01-07 22:17:58 excuse me if im stupid but i cant get audio working? sorry im new to alpine 2024-01-07 22:18:41 ive been trying with alsa utils and stuff, alsamixer picks up my sound card but audio isnt working 2024-01-07 22:19:29 did you install pipewire/pulseaudio ? 2024-01-07 22:19:53 yeah im pretty sure i did 2024-01-07 22:19:58 lemme reinstall it rq 2024-01-07 22:20:22 yeah ive got it installed and audio still isnt working 2024-01-07 22:21:39 Is it started? 2024-01-07 22:22:14 so i tried starting it and got an error cause it was apparently installed system-wide so that might be it 2024-01-07 22:22:46 how did you try to start it? 2024-01-07 22:22:57 using rc-service 2024-01-07 22:23:03 is that not correct? 2024-01-07 22:23:18 It's not 2024-01-07 22:23:25 ohh sorry im dumb 2024-01-07 22:23:35 how would i start it properly? 2024-01-07 22:24:44 Using sway, i have pipewire set to launch by running /usr/libexec/pipewire-launcher 2024-01-07 22:25:03 ^ 2024-01-07 22:25:06 ill try that using pipewire then 2024-01-07 22:25:30 It needs to run every time you start your session. 2024-01-07 22:25:44 sorry for being stupid im not very familiar w alpine or linux in general lol 2024-01-07 22:26:06 that might make it a bad distro to use idk but its good for learning 2024-01-07 22:26:11 gamingirc aight 2024-01-07 22:26:56 It is good for learning, but it might be more frustrating at the start 2024-01-07 22:27:08 yeah it kinda is 2024-01-07 22:27:16 but most things have gone surprisingly smooth so far 2024-01-07 22:27:33 like ive got basically everything i need except audio working at least 2024-01-07 22:27:56 running pipewire launcher gives me an error 2024-01-07 22:28:16 What error 2024-01-07 22:28:18 post it 2024-01-07 22:28:29 the entire log thing? 2024-01-07 22:28:43 its something abt xdg or pipewire runtime dirs 2024-01-07 22:29:02 so i probably need to set that 2024-01-07 22:29:16 Look at pipewire's page on the wiki 2024-01-07 22:29:24 aight 2024-01-07 22:33:19 thanks a lot 2024-01-07 22:33:40 got xdg runtime stuff set up through elogind cause its easier and now audio works 2024-01-07 22:35:59 what desktop environment or window manager are you using 2024-01-07 22:49:54 Can confirm that portal doesn't run either. I sat there with it running in the background for a couple minutes and it only showed a window the second that i hit STOP 2024-01-07 22:55:59 would it be fine if i make an issue to request for man pages for bupstash? (upstream has man pages written already, just doens't seem to be anywhere in alpine) 2024-01-07 22:56:53 gamingirc: Configurations merged =^,^= 2024-01-07 22:57:59 and _everything broke_ right? lol 2024-01-07 23:00:05 Nothing I didn't fix :) 2024-01-07 23:00:14 Basically just typos updating configs. 2024-01-07 23:00:23 Learned I can have multiple bars :p 2024-01-07 23:04:21 swaybar is underrated tbh 2024-01-07 23:04:24 the simplicity 2024-01-07 23:06:36 Yeah. I have it set to hide except while holding the super key. 2024-01-07 23:06:51 The only clock I have on my system, hidden by default. Where it should be. :) 2024-01-07 23:08:48 Only downside about swaybar is everything updates at the same time. So if you have a part of the bar script that is really slow, the whole bar will have to wait to update 2024-01-07 23:09:17 Ran into that when i was making a script to check if network was up by ping a remote host 2024-01-07 23:11:18 gamingirc: It updates when you navigate workspaces ? 2024-01-07 23:11:58 does it? 2024-01-07 23:12:28 Yes. 2024-01-07 23:13:33 that is a bit hacky though. i dont wanna have to switch workspaces for it to update. Plus, i like seeing the seconds tick on the date part of the script. A slow bar ruins that 2024-01-07 23:13:56 It ticks on its own? 2024-01-07 23:14:22 what does 2024-01-07 23:14:27 Meanwhile I remove the seconds and tell it to sleep 30 seconds to be mostly accurate :p 2024-01-07 23:14:50 lol 2024-01-07 23:14:51 Sleeping 1s is already silly because it drifts. 2024-01-07 23:15:59 you mean the clock naturally get out of sync 2024-01-07 23:19:33 A little. The date command gives accurate results but the delay drifts such that the time aliases. It may be inaccurate up to 1s. I.e. If it should tick a few frames after updating, it'll still wait for that sleep before drawing again. 2024-01-07 23:20:42 Yeah im fine for small inaccuracies. It's mostly the "feel" of the clock ticking, makes the system feel more alive in a way. 2024-01-07 23:21:15 Kind of like the blinking cursor in a terminal window, waiting for input 2024-01-07 23:24:17 Hehe 2024-01-07 23:24:19 Suppose. 2024-01-07 23:24:34 I just need it to be responsive. Reacting to what I need. <3 2024-01-07 23:24:40 ACTION notes the foot terminal's cursor doesn't blink huh. 2024-01-07 23:24:57 yeah but it has an option to blink 2024-01-07 23:25:14 bless the foot terminal, it's great 2024-01-07 23:38:15 j/go 5 2024-01-07 23:38:17 s/// 2024-01-07 23:38:19 oops 2024-01-08 00:33:24 lol i tried to install fedora on my main pc, everything was going fine, rebooted and installed some flatpaks, it said "not enough space". I was like, oh shit. I checked the partitions and even though i clicked the default partition options and let fedora decide, it made my / a 5gb parition wtf 2024-01-08 00:34:12 i had 990 GB of space doing jack shit. Suffice to say i installed something else 2024-01-08 00:59:45 More alpine? :) 2024-01-08 01:01:09 Well the reason I was installing something else was because alpine gaming wasn't working 2024-01-08 01:01:15 so for now im on Artix 2024-01-08 01:01:23 not happy about it though trust me 2024-01-08 01:02:40 I should probably open up an issue on the flatpak github and see if i cant get help 2024-01-08 02:55:46 Oh they're gone. 2024-01-08 03:06:54 What was his issue with flatpak anyway? I missed it 2024-01-08 03:17:43 Having a problem in Alpine Linux where i can't set broadcast address, i'm writing "broadcast 10.39.43.255" in /etc/network/interfaces under "auto eth0" and "iface eth0 inet static" then i restart network, but ifconfig says "Bcast 0.0.0.0" any idea why or how to solve this? 2024-01-08 03:24:47 step 1: don't use ifconfig; step 2: what's wrong with address 10.39.43.whatever/24 ? 2024-01-08 03:25:08 step 3: is anything *actually* broken? 2024-01-08 03:27:45 zcrayfish: Best context was around the 'proton' keyword ^ 2024-01-08 03:28:35 I would just set the "address" and "netmask" (and optionally "gateway") options in /etc/network/interfaces; it ought to pick an appropriate broadcast address then. 2024-01-08 03:29:41 this is a working example setting up the lo and eth0 interfaces: https://pastebin.com/Ff7HUfCZ 2024-01-08 03:31:12 but more importantly, dwfreed's step 3 2024-01-08 03:38:32 yea 10.39.43.1/24 2024-01-08 03:39:04 i tried to set only address and netmask but still the same result 2024-01-08 03:39:36 why not use ifconfig? is there a better command to check stuff? 2024-01-08 03:39:43 ip addr show 2024-01-08 03:40:00 but I am seeing exactly what you are talking about now. 2024-01-08 03:42:26 tried ip addr show, but it dosnen't show broadcastaddress as far as i can tell? 2024-01-08 03:42:51 that's because there is none 2024-01-08 03:43:23 :D 2024-01-08 03:44:11 if i try to read between the lines one dont need to bother with broadcastaddress not being listed as anything but Bcast 0.0.0.0 ? 2024-01-08 03:44:47 maybe it is not an error really? 2024-01-08 03:44:58 just me thinking it is? 2024-01-08 03:45:52 Not sure. I see it set on my DHCP machines in both ifconfig and ip addr show \o/ 2024-01-08 03:46:44 dwfreed, about actually broken, all the machines are M$ VMs 2024-01-08 03:48:16 oh i see, sounds like i have learned 2 things today :D 2024-01-08 03:53:47 that does not describe anything actually broken, though :P 2024-01-08 03:54:01 other than being M$ means broken by default :P 2024-01-08 03:56:06 =) 2024-01-08 03:56:49 yea :D however M$ stuff does work, i'm actually using M$ software for work and it does it's job 2024-01-08 04:00:53 Well anyway, this makes me beg the question... are you using SAMBA without WINS? =) 2024-01-08 04:02:14 me? no i dont, for transfers i'm using ftp for just about everything 2024-01-08 04:03:55 oh that's cool, I was just thinking that samba is a decent way to test broadcast functionality. heh. 2024-01-08 04:05:26 ah, i'm aware that SAMBA exist and i have had it once but it seems like too many services i dont know much about 2024-01-08 04:05:48 i tried to use tcpdump to see what happens 2024-01-08 04:32:09 if nothing is obviously broken, it's probably fine as is 2024-01-08 04:40:45 most likely my knowledge is broken, that is actually something i'm trying to fix on a daily basis :) 2024-01-08 04:41:06 about most things 2024-01-08 04:45:56 It's cool, best forget about broadcasting if you're not having an issue, it's going the way of the dinosaur, being replaced by multicasting 2024-01-08 05:33:04 Supertuxkart on Alpine is sweet 2024-01-08 07:36:15 hmm, i'm getting a lot more apps that through some form of the following Error relocating /usr/lib/libicuuc.so.74: _ZSt21__glibcxx_assert_failPKciS0_S0_: symbol not found 2024-01-08 07:36:51 (that was xelatex. update-mime-types, firefox, mosh and others do so too). this is related to my upgrade (and discussion) last night form 3.18.x to 3.19. 2024-01-08 07:37:25 I couldn't find anything in release notes or in the bugtracker on this. i'm on x86_64 so maybe that's the culprit? sort of stumped. Is there a way to force re-install something without having to del and re-add it? 2024-01-08 07:37:39 since a lot of things depend on e.g. libicuuc for instance 2024-01-08 07:37:57 You could have a look at what packages apk wants to update with: apk update -a 2024-01-08 07:38:08 (I recommend making apk “interactive”, as a side-note) 2024-01-08 07:38:16 yeah i ran upgrade -aiv 2024-01-08 07:38:30 it says it has upgraded everything 2024-01-08 07:39:09 i ran sudo apk update && sudo apk upgrade -aiv yesterday. My repository is 'latest-stable'. I hadn't updated since October, so there were about 5000 packages it upgraded. 2024-01-08 07:39:11 and with -l? 2024-01-08 07:39:28 I rebooted and everything seems fine except a whole chunk of apps :) 2024-01-08 07:39:31 what is -l? 2024-01-08 07:42:42 oh nice, never new about -l (just did --help, couldn'tfind it in the man page) 2024-01-08 07:42:49 ok that's interesting, -l tosses this error 2024-01-08 07:43:19 http://sprunge.us/xsgVjm 2024-01-08 07:43:46 I have it in mine: -l, --latest: Upgrade all other packages than the ones listed. This inverts the given package name list to mean packages that should not be upgraded. 2024-01-08 07:44:38 Maybe gcc-gnat has been removed 2024-01-08 07:44:50 nothing depended on it so i just removed it by hand 2024-01-08 07:44:56 just now, let me see if that fixes it 2024-01-08 07:45:05 In any case, I doubt that'd solve your ICU issues 2024-01-08 07:45:36 well now it wants to upgrade gcc so that's hopeful 2024-01-08 07:46:23 yeah didn't fix it :( 2024-01-08 07:46:56 oh wait, ran fix 2024-01-08 07:46:58 and it works! 2024-01-08 07:47:14 yesss! thank you! 2024-01-08 07:47:19 good to learn about -l 2024-01-08 07:50:35 I can't tell you why apk has three mode of upgrade though, “regular”, “available”, and “latest”, that's above my understanding :/ 2024-01-08 07:50:41 Maybe somebody else can 2024-01-08 07:52:00 yeah now i'm tempted to do upgrade -aliv each time, lol :) 2024-01-08 08:05:05 ACTION petitions fabled to add an -e option as well 2024-01-08 08:12:41 jaja 2024-01-08 10:39:04 a single root partition can be filled up, look 2024-01-08 10:39:06 ACTION uploaded an image: (42KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.im/PlURWUfNcnBrjYyChQpeTNSr/image.png > 2024-01-08 11:59:01 dont remember if i asked this before, if you have output from command thats say less than 80 chars wide, but prints past your vertical screen size, is there some way to wrap the output into two columns, kinda like a book | 1 | 2 | 2024-01-08 12:08:28 With the pr command apparently 2024-01-08 12:14:04 You have to make sure it's wrapped narrower than 40 columns first for pr to work 2024-01-08 12:14:33 in the core-utils :| 2024-01-08 12:14:36 so maybe an fmt pipeline first 2024-01-08 12:15:11 frag: you mean busybox? 2024-01-08 12:16:05 If so, then I suspect you're doomed to write something in awk. 2024-01-08 12:16:36 busybox dont have pr seems 2024-01-08 12:34:54 Hey, anyone here that made an APKBUILD file and packaged anything for Alpine? trying too myself but its whining the APKINDEX.tar.gz file has an untrusted signature 2024-01-08 12:45:34 Please don't cross-post, I've answered in #-devel 2024-01-08 13:32:43 is there an andale font in repo? 2024-01-08 13:33:47 made an svg with inkscape long ago, aparently with some andale mono font... 2024-01-08 13:34:17 frag: msttcorefonts-installer may be your best route 2024-01-08 13:35:36 spacehobo ty! 2024-01-08 13:36:01 I can't remember if there's a liberated andale mono 2024-01-08 13:46:03 got it sorted with some help 2024-01-08 14:10:40 dunno if ppl know about svg, but it says the font size is 100px, but its still small, and it doesnt help to double the size to 200px, just editing the svg file with editor, and converting with imagemagick 2024-01-08 14:11:24 this was also a line that uses sans font-family 2024-01-08 14:18:26 is alpine anti-GNU? 2024-01-08 14:21:33 no. 2024-01-08 14:27:54 Case in point, the main compiler is still gcc 2024-01-08 14:30:01 the kernel is still linux! 2024-01-08 14:38:40 https://i.imgur.com/LwVUzB6.png reinstalled Alpine Linux edge on a Raspberry Pi 4 today 2024-01-08 14:41:39 fury999io: i assume you're reading into alpine's use of musl as some sort of slap against gnu, and generally only people who see the world in "gnu or nothing" see it that way. 2024-01-08 14:42:38 if alpine were anti-gnu there wouldn't be any gnu in the tree 2024-01-08 14:45:48 and yet, I use Alpine specifically because of musl - not because I don't like GNU tools, but because it helps testing and ensuring portability of my code 2024-01-08 14:46:34 "Case in point, the main compiler..." <- in fact, a lot of GNU userland on Alpine as well, although a bunch of things are IIRC replaced by simpler busybox equivalents 2024-01-08 14:47:55 but vast majority of shell scripts will work unmodified, and the main "user facing" tools are definitely the GNU ones as well (e.g. "ls" with all its 5 million options) 2024-01-08 14:51:06 As an example where there's an actual difference that may trip up some shell scripts, xargs is busybox's, not GNU's 2024-01-08 14:51:07 however, the only option I ever use with it is -0 and that exists 2024-01-08 14:51:08 it even has the parallelism stuff in there 2024-01-08 14:51:43 so in a way, Alpine feels like a middle ground between "typical desktop Linux userland" and "FreeBSD" for shell scripts 2024-01-08 14:54:17 even FreeBSD isn't really anti-GNU, but it demands that its core system has no GPL components for licensing reasons - if a program requires the GNU versions of utilities, they're packaged but may require some patching to use (primarily utility names have a prepended letter g) 2024-01-08 14:55:10 such a policy would be nonsense for a Linux distro though, as the kernel itself already is GPL anyway 2024-01-08 14:56:59 also there's been stuff like debian's GNU/kFreeBSD for a long time, although that got killed off last year finally 2024-01-08 14:57:53 yeah; it never really had good chances of working out 2024-01-08 14:58:14 I would actually think that if one really wants a FreeBSD kernel, one would have better chances with Alpine's userland 2024-01-08 14:58:29 is the edge or testing repos the one with the latest software? 2024-01-08 14:59:12 The testing repo is part of the edge branch 2024-01-08 14:59:30 and using Linux binaries using FreeBSD's support for that 2024-01-08 14:59:31 at least everything's already patched to not need systemd :) 2024-01-08 14:59:37 ikke: ah alright i see thanks 2024-01-08 14:59:46 zestyluna: edge is for latest versions, testing is for packages not yet fully accepted (and testing is only available for edge) 2024-01-08 14:59:56 divVerent: ah alright thanks 2024-01-08 15:00:17 note that testing packages may disappear any time; they're primarily there for trying out "upcoming" new packages 2024-01-08 15:00:41 alright 2024-01-08 15:01:38 Hm... I am now seriously wondering how well a "Linux distro using FreeBSD kernel" could work, but not like Debian's kFreeBSD, but using FreeBSD's Linux emulation layer for "almost everything". Can't see how to make Wayland/X11 work with that though, and network configuration probably also would need FreeBSD specific utilities. 2024-01-08 15:02:30 thanks i am pretty new to Alpine only used it for around 6 days 2024-01-08 15:03:07 Is there any specific package you're interested in that's only in edge/testing right now, or how did you get to that question? 2024-01-08 15:04:06 divVerent: nope was just curious as i checked https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/ always good to know how the repos works, using edge to get a newer kernel and like newer packages in general 2024-01-08 15:05:13 i use alpine linux for my primary workstation but if I need something that simply is a pain to install because of musl, I also have NIX installed. with nix, you can pretty much build anytool you need and keep alpine pristine 2024-01-08 15:06:03 some "opensource" projects are just a pain in the a## to build from source code -- like librusty, deno, and others. 2024-01-08 15:06:27 aquamo4k: don't think i will build much on this Raspberry Pi 4 but good to know nix might help with some packages that might not work 2024-01-08 15:06:54 even though those two are built on rust with cargo which uses llvm which supports so many things; their error is making something too dependent on glibc I think 2024-01-08 15:10:48 zestyluna: nix has a lot of pre-built packages for aarch64-linux fyi: https://search.nixos.org/ so your one-off package needs might be available already 2024-01-08 15:11:12 alright thx 2024-01-08 15:27:19 Hi 2024-01-08 15:28:26 zestyluna: edge is not just newer packages, it is also a development tree. things break 2024-01-08 15:28:51 if you're not comfortable being part of that testing, you should pick a point release 2024-01-08 15:29:38 Is there a way to get informed that on the Alpine System a rebboot is needed? Like on Debian "/var/run/reboot-required" or some other way? 2024-01-08 15:30:20 feuerteufel, you can check the running kernel version 2024-01-08 15:30:26 uname -r 2024-01-08 15:30:53 If it's different from the installed package, you *might* need to reboot 2024-01-08 15:31:24 Like if you need to load a module, as Alpine erases the running kernel modules on upgrade 2024-01-08 15:31:34 Otherwise, there's little reason to reboot 2024-01-08 15:31:52 You might want to restart some services though, but that's different 2024-01-08 15:32:01 Ok, on new Kernel I'm rebooting all the time 2024-01-08 15:33:29 But a last time on Docker upgrade, there was a reboot needed 2024-01-08 15:36:15 And last week, I found that File on Debian. So I yust think to my self, is that also possible on Alpine? 2024-01-08 15:39:08 But what would be its meaning? 2024-01-08 15:39:35 (direct answer, though, is “no there's no such file on Alpine”) 2024-01-08 15:42:43 It's yust a question. If I'm not asking, I'll never know! :-)) 2024-01-08 15:43:09 Tks quinq! 2024-01-08 15:43:25 iirc, on debian, the package manager creates that after detecting that "in-use" libraries got upgraded, or something like that 2024-01-08 15:43:27 No prob :) 2024-01-08 15:43:41 Alpine has no equivalent 2024-01-08 15:43:50 grawity, but that doesn't necesitate a reboot, just restarting concerned services 2024-01-08 15:44:14 There are “checkrestart” scripts that tell you that 2024-01-08 16:13:30 invoked: alright good to know 2024-01-08 16:42:48 my chromium is crashing on me pretty frequently nowadays. its it only for me? 2024-01-08 16:43:12 i mean, anyone else experiencing that chromium crashes frequently? 2024-01-08 16:43:29 i mainly use firefox - so cannot help there 2024-01-08 16:51:39 ncopa: just out of curiosity, what arch? i know chromium did some malloc type changes with arm recently 2024-01-08 16:51:58 i only use ungoogled-chromium (the flatpak) occasionally 2024-01-08 16:52:29 another question is there anything to provide a tray icon that tells when there is updates in the apk repos for my computer? 2024-01-08 16:53:15 oh, man, I just installed swaylock-effects... the --grace option... I'll need to type my pwd about a thousand times less a day now. 2024-01-08 16:59:43 also is the forums archived/broken can't seem to create an account 2024-01-08 17:13:02 @ncopa regarding chromium - not one single chrash. only the open opus/yt-problem. 2024-01-08 17:36:24 Running CLion was working like 2 weeks ago, but now it crashes right when I start, with: "g_error_new_literal: assertion 'message != NULL' failed". I updated my OS since the last time I ran it. Could it be a musl/glibc issue? 2024-01-08 17:37:28 A month ago I was pleased to see that the JetBrains IDE "just worked" with gcompat, but maybe now there is an issue? 2024-01-08 17:59:20 Hi 2024-01-08 17:59:26 ALpine is Arch linux distro 2024-01-08 17:59:37 No. 2024-01-08 17:59:40 why no 2024-01-08 17:59:48 It is unrelated 2024-01-08 17:59:54 Alpine & Artix & Arco 2024-01-08 17:59:54 you confuse with artix 2024-01-08 17:59:58 yep 2024-01-08 18:00:14 So ALpine not base in arch? 2024-01-08 18:00:22 nope 2024-01-08 18:00:23 nope 2024-01-08 18:00:32 so what is base in alpine? 2024-01-08 18:00:38 debian? 2024-01-08 18:00:39 it's original 2024-01-08 18:00:49 what is original 2024-01-08 18:00:51 like void 2024-01-08 18:00:57 it has nothing as a base 2024-01-08 18:00:58 oh 2024-01-08 18:01:05 it's a base itself 2024-01-08 18:01:06 so alpine is use nixpkg 2024-01-08 18:01:31 user_ee: nope its using apk 2024-01-08 18:01:35 also sells crack 2024-01-08 18:01:37 ah 2024-01-08 18:01:41 i know so alpine is android? 2024-01-08 18:02:03 more like freebsd 2024-01-08 18:02:08 netbsd? 2024-01-08 18:02:17 i no try freebsd 2024-01-08 18:02:26 Alpine is based on Alpine 2024-01-08 18:02:44 you yes try freebsd 2024-01-08 18:02:48 Alpine use what kernel? 2024-01-08 18:02:52 Linux 2024-01-08 18:02:57 Not zen? 2024-01-08 18:03:02 zen? 2024-01-08 18:03:04 yes 2024-01-08 18:03:10 what's a zen 2024-01-08 18:03:11 State course and speed. 2024-01-08 18:03:12 Ryzen optimzed Linux kernel 2024-01-08 18:03:13 SeL4 or Xen 2024-01-08 18:03:24 Linux kernel i know 2024-01-08 18:03:29 have Hardened? 2024-01-08 18:03:38 this is a family channel 2024-01-08 18:03:38 i see offical website say alpine secuirty 2024-01-08 18:04:01 user_ee: https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages?name=linux-*&branch=v3.19&repo=&arch=&maintainer= 2024-01-08 18:04:02 meh, it's based on musl 2024-01-08 18:04:13 so expect a security holes there 2024-01-08 18:04:29 LTS ... coool 2024-01-08 18:04:46 i can use Runit Alpine linux? 2024-01-08 18:04:51 i hate systemd 2024-01-08 18:05:02 Alpine does not use systemd i think 2024-01-08 18:05:09 atleast the Raspberry Pi variant use OpenRC 2024-01-08 18:05:24 good 2024-01-08 18:05:35 Alpine can de gnu? 2024-01-08 18:05:50 it's degnu by default 2024-01-08 18:05:55 wow 2024-01-08 18:06:10 because of busybox 2024-01-08 18:06:45 i want know 2024-01-08 18:06:54 if Chimera linux vs Apline Linux 2024-01-08 18:06:59 what is BEST? 2024-01-08 18:07:12 Chimera (De GNU) Alpine Also 2024-01-08 18:07:22 ubuntu 2024-01-08 18:07:25 no 2024-01-08 18:07:28 you probably want ubuntu 2024-01-08 18:07:29 ubuntu use snap is spy 2024-01-08 18:07:40 i hate gnu + systemd 2024-01-08 18:08:03 therapy perhaps? 2024-01-08 18:08:17 maybe 2024-01-08 18:08:40 what do you wanna do with alpine? 2024-01-08 18:08:47 server/embedded/vm? 2024-01-08 18:08:53 Xen VM 2024-01-08 18:09:00 for what? 2024-01-08 18:09:08 like what do you wanna run there 2024-01-08 18:09:19 nothing, I just think they're neat! 2024-01-08 18:09:39 NAS & website & minecraft server 2024-01-08 18:09:48 i use Citrix 2024-01-08 18:09:59 alpine should do 2024-01-08 18:10:12 WoW 2024-01-08 18:11:02 https://dcclost.com/blog/alpine-mc.html 2024-01-08 18:11:56 There is a rumor that Alpine Linux can run at 192MB of ram? 2024-01-08 18:11:59 consus: anyway if Alpine is just used for dom0, it doesn't matter much, right? The VMs can be whatever distro is needed, can't they? 2024-01-08 18:12:24 yes 2024-01-08 18:12:53 There is a guide for Alpine ad dom0 here: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Xen_Dom0 2024-01-08 18:12:57 But I don't want my server of too many resources 2024-01-08 18:13:03 wow thanks 2024-01-08 18:14:10 I run Alpine on an old Pi Zero that only has 512MB RAM, and it's fine even with half that taken up with the ramdisk. 2024-01-08 18:14:23 But it's limited, of course. 2024-01-08 18:14:45 cool 2024-01-08 18:14:56 That said, my first Linux system had 8MB of RAM and a 340MB IDE drive, so that fits neatly in core as-is. 2024-01-08 18:15:49 Alpine is monster mini RAM Distro? 2024-01-08 18:16:04 I don't know what that means. 2024-01-08 18:16:18 sound'so cool 2024-01-08 18:16:28 jonesv: alpine for dom0 is not a very good idea because of musl :( 2024-01-08 18:16:53 But the minimal install of Alpine uses very few resources, partly due to its heritage as an OpenWRT-type project. 2024-01-08 18:17:29 however with jemalloc'ing qemu it might be better 2024-01-08 18:17:39 or xen 2024-01-08 18:17:41 or whatever 2024-01-08 18:17:43 I love XEN 2024-01-08 18:17:45 xen is BEST 2024-01-08 18:17:54 of course it is 2024-01-08 18:19:32 anyway Thanks. 2024-01-08 18:20:12 I've been looking for a guide to Alpline Hardened, or .sh script or notebook lately 2024-01-08 18:21:27 "Hardening" usually refers to taking a feature-filled system and stripping it down and disabling parts to reduce attack surface. Alpine just...starts up minimal. I'm not sure what process you'd hope to achieve, beyond careful installation of necessary facilities. 2024-01-08 18:22:32 yes. i need hardened kerenel + APPArrmor + everthing 2024-01-08 18:23:00 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/AppArmor 2024-01-08 18:23:23 thx 2024-01-08 18:24:13 I currently have a threat model and ready to make a bet with a friend that I'm going to bring my laptop to him and he'll hack my computer, what are some ways to implement a higher security policy? 2024-01-08 18:25:09 kill him first? 2024-01-08 18:25:16 100% hack-proof 2024-01-08 18:25:18 lol 2024-01-08 18:25:30 will to jail :laugh: 2024-01-08 18:25:38 results 2024-01-08 18:25:52 yes 2024-01-08 18:31:07 thx u Alpine Guru 2024-01-08 18:42:01 @irc_oftc_user_ee:m.ash.fail: encrypt hard drive, turn off computer, I dont see how he could do anything at that point 2024-01-08 18:45:27 consus: oh, I would have thought that dom0 did not need so much... do you know what is not working because of musl? 2024-01-08 19:53:28 hi folks! so, after the most recent upgrade to grub 1.12-r0, the generated grub.cfg tries to load a "bli" module that doesn't exist, which I think has broken my boot config entirely 2024-01-08 19:53:44 elly: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 2024-01-08 19:54:10 haha, that is exactly what I did not do 2024-01-08 19:54:11 thanks 2024-01-08 19:55:43 elly: yes Grub 2.12 added a "bli" module 2024-01-08 19:59:50 how is one meant to know to follow those instructions as part of an update? 2024-01-08 20:01:21 elly: this has already been extensively discussed but no "solution" is yet in place 2024-01-08 20:01:29 ah okay 2024-01-08 20:01:35 well, such is life for an edge user sometimes :) 2024-01-08 20:51:15 "hi folks! so, after the most..." <- Wow, how did you figure out the module name that was the problem? 2024-01-08 20:51:39 For me it instantly rebooted, so no way to see any error message. I still found a way to fix it, given the symptom clearly was "grub is broken". 2024-01-08 20:53:44 Hi :) 2024-01-08 20:53:49 i want aks a questions 2024-01-08 20:53:59 divVerent: in elly's case it obviously got as far as parsing grub.cfg to decide what to do 2024-01-08 20:54:05 conversation: you don't need permission for that 2024-01-08 20:54:23 "bli" is a new module in Grub 2.12 that is only used for UEFI boots 2024-01-08 20:54:40 divVerent: I booted off external media, put the old grub config back so it booted, then put the new grub config back so it didn't, then started reducing the delta between them until it stopped booting 2024-01-08 20:54:44 er, started booting 2024-01-08 20:54:48 ... I want know 2024-01-08 20:54:53 How encrypt /boot ? 2024-01-08 20:55:11 grub-mkconfig when automatically run after Grub 2.12 package will add a section to the (re)generated grub.cfg to "insmod bli" on UEFI systems 2024-01-08 20:55:49 hello sir. 2024-01-08 20:55:53 conversation: Not sure how well it works, but there is something documented here: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Full_disk_encryption_secure_boot 2024-01-08 20:56:07 Oh: "this is not to be followed, only for testing purposes" 2024-01-08 20:56:20 i can use LUKS2 argon2 to encrypt /boot? 2024-01-08 20:56:36 TY bro i see that site 2024-01-08 20:56:56 ikke: yeah that was written by people trying to get LUKSv2 working with pre-Grub 2.12 2024-01-08 20:57:23 so it shouldn't really be followed 2024-01-08 20:57:52 I dont even use grub. EFISTUB works just fine. 2024-01-08 20:58:13 ikke: It also seems to be no real secure boot - I see nothing there that signs the kernel. 2024-01-08 20:58:19 Is there an easy way to start a mdadm array at boot? 2024-01-08 20:58:26 So I guess all this is is a signed grub loading an unsigned kernel? 2024-01-08 20:58:43 divVerent: signed Grub? 2024-01-08 20:59:03 Hi 2024-01-08 20:59:10 (yeah, at least the kernel is "authenticated" by the file system the kernel lives on being _encrypted_ by some password - not quite the same thing as secure boot, but still _something_) 2024-01-08 20:59:31 minimal: on that full disk encryption secure boot wiki article 2024-01-08 20:59:47 hi 2024-01-08 21:00:00 divVerent: that's GRUB "FDE" 2024-01-08 21:00:11 yeah 2024-01-08 21:00:22 which is nothing specifically to do with UEFI - you can use Grub FDE with BIOS 2024-01-08 21:00:25 I want know how dnscrypt (DNS Over TLS) 2024-01-08 21:00:51 yeah, indeed 2024-01-08 21:01:16 Did you look at the dnscrypt wiki? 2024-01-08 21:01:24 divVerent: AFAIK Grub does support the use of gpg for "security" but I've never looked into it 2024-01-08 21:03:23 divVerent: actually that wiki article does appear to cover (some aspects of) UEFI Secure Boot - the "Configuring Secure Boot" section (funnily enough) does detail efi-mkkeys and sbsign commands 2024-01-08 21:08:59 OH 2024-01-08 21:09:07 yes i see dnscrypt wiki 2024-01-08 21:09:16 but they saying DNS Over TLS only google have 2024-01-08 21:13:30 many dns servers support dns-over-https, if that's what you mean 2024-01-08 21:13:41 and dls-over-tls 2024-01-08 21:13:43 er dns 2024-01-08 21:13:53 yes I mean is dls over tls 2024-01-08 21:14:22 becuase dot (dls over tls) vs doh(dns over https) 2024-01-08 21:14:25 dot is best 2024-01-08 21:14:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_recursive_name_server there are many that support DoT 2024-01-08 21:15:11 Oh thanks you:) 2024-01-08 21:15:48 i want know a questions how use dot? 2024-01-08 21:16:00 becuase have a diffcult 2024-01-08 21:20:52 which application are you trying to use? dnscrypt is just a protocol 2024-01-08 21:23:04 tahnks bro 2024-01-08 21:23:07 i want know a questions 2024-01-08 21:23:17 if i use dns crypt to DNS over TLS 2024-01-08 21:23:25 browser can get DNS crypt? 2024-01-08 21:24:06 Dnscrypt is a protocol. DNS over TLS is a protocol. They are seperate. 2024-01-08 21:24:52 Your browser is probably only going to support DoH (DNS over HTTPS) since it already has HTTPS implemented 2024-01-08 21:27:08 Of course the browsers support DoH: It allows them to bypass people blocking advertising servers via their system's regular DNS. 2024-01-08 21:28:13 Ah... thanks you 2024-01-08 21:28:15 but i want know 2024-01-08 21:28:26 DOT VS DOH what have BEST Security? 2024-01-08 21:28:32 No? I can't imagine anyone installing an ad-blocking dns before they even install uBO 2024-01-08 21:29:02 is me XD 2024-01-08 21:29:04 HTTPS uses TLS, so security-wise they are the same 2024-01-08 21:29:31 Privacy-wise, it's a different story 2024-01-08 21:29:42 i have a questions. 2024-01-08 21:29:50 DNS can see my all website data? 2024-01-08 21:29:58 Only the domains 2024-01-08 21:30:04 So just example.org 2024-01-08 21:30:14 not https://example.org/foo/bar.html 2024-01-08 21:30:31 Or anything on it. 2024-01-08 21:30:58 ah thanks 2024-01-08 21:31:00 Which is why, if you care about privacy, there is the option to use Anonymized DNS via dnscrypt-proxy 2024-01-08 21:31:55 I just use DoT cause that's the easiest to setup with networkmanager, and it's good enough 2024-01-08 21:32:24 Anything else just has diminishing returns since they are less commonly used. 2024-01-08 21:32:46 At least for my threat model. 2024-01-08 21:33:42 i think i will use Mullvad DNS (dot) 2024-01-08 21:34:12 Mullvad has earned goodwill. So that seems understandable. 2024-01-08 21:34:27 Yes lol 2024-01-08 21:39:24 spot-on Kladky 2024-01-08 21:39:44 I'll be real glad when encrypted SNI rolls out. Will probably be a very long time though. 2024-01-08 21:39:55 Or better yet, IPv4 goes the hell away and SNI becomes unneeded. 2024-01-08 21:40:05 It is already available with firefox 2024-01-08 21:40:38 You can test it at https://tls-ech.dev/ 2024-01-08 21:41:49 As long as you have DoH enabled in firefox, ECH will also be used where possible 2024-01-08 21:42:11 wow 2024-01-08 21:42:20 i use dns over tls can use adblock 2024-01-08 21:42:28 is so wondful!! 2024-01-08 21:45:44 I just downloaded updates which automatically ran grub-mkconfig and so on and now after a reboot grub won't start anymore. You can still see welcome to grub but after that it restarts directly in the uefi settings. Is there some kind of bug? 2024-01-08 21:46:05 clius[m]: see: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 2024-01-08 21:46:09 Assuming you are using edge. 2024-01-08 21:46:23 Yes i am using edge 2024-01-08 21:48:16 I had a similar issue. Can't remember if I was on alpine when it happened, but I restarted and from then on my machine would just reboot to the uefi menu. Scared me for a second thinking I broke something hardware wise. 2024-01-08 21:48:55 Just fixed it by chrooting and switching over to using efistub 2024-01-08 21:49:12 zcrayfish: "IPv4 goes the hell away and SNI becomes unneeded" - what would SNI be unneeded/unused with IPv6? 2024-01-08 21:49:50 Because in the case of IPv6 you don't need multiple servers sharing the same IP: making SNI a solution in search of a problem in that case. 2024-01-08 21:53:07 "you don't need multiple servers sharing the same IP" - the same could be said about IPv4 2024-01-08 21:53:31 SNI still has a role in IPv6, just as it does in IPv4 2024-01-08 21:53:36 but you then lose the privacy benefits of SNI and IP sharing, right? at the moment, any connection to Cloudflare (say) looks much like any other, as long as they're using ESNI 2024-01-08 21:53:49 elly: probably. 2024-01-08 21:53:54 but if there was a dedicated v6 address per host, the info about what you're connecting to leaks at the IP layer again 2024-01-08 21:54:45 One problem gets replaced with another =) 2024-01-08 21:55:40 "dedicated v6 address per host" - i think you mean dedicated v6 address per "service" (i.e. website) 2024-01-08 22:55:26 zcrayfish: people will still use SNI for example if they have all services running on one machine, but they want to be able to be flexable and change that in the future. 2024-01-08 22:56:25 ECH is suppost to stop leaking what domain you are going to. If every domain has a unique ip address, people can figure it out anyways. 2024-01-08 22:56:49 so privacy-wise it would be a downgrade 2024-01-08 22:57:46 Basically just paraphrasing what elly said, but worse. 2024-01-08 23:23:17 Ok so supposedly, I had set up a firewall and it was blocking localhost connections, because why not. Well apparently that was a big reason why some games weren't starting on flatpak steam 2024-01-08 23:23:37 imagine my surprise 2024-01-08 23:24:00 didnt know localhost was that fucking important 2024-01-09 00:13:43 Wait until he finds out that IPv4 loopback is a whole /8 and not just 127.0.0.1 :) 2024-01-09 00:16:04 i didn't want to ruin the journey by explaining things 2024-01-09 01:56:51 ff0e::1 is cooler though - the IPv6 global scope all hosts multicast address. The ultimate DDoS... if it existed :) 2024-01-09 01:58:18 "Wait until he finds out that IPv..." <- Yeah... never understood why IPv4 wastes 0.4% of its address space on local loopback while we're running out of addresses, but it is how it is 2024-01-09 02:00:18 I've run into a few situations in which I needed to use more than one... but.... never more than a /24... Would be interesting to see the use cases of the /8 folks 2024-01-09 02:02:04 Hello soory i want ask a questions :) 2024-01-09 02:02:25 KVM & Xen & vmbox is type 1 VM? 2024-01-09 02:02:41 why need type1 tyep2 type3 to VM name 2024-01-09 02:59:00 divVerent: because it was allocated at the beginning of the internet and can't be reallocated without breaking basically everything? 2024-01-09 02:59:27 you would be better off trying to reallocate 0/8 which some people are already trying 2024-01-09 03:17:28 wait till you find out you can skip zeroes in loopback address 2024-01-09 03:40:07 and that you can represent ip addresses as 32-bit integers 2024-01-09 04:19:31 well IPv4 anyway 2024-01-09 04:28:13 IPv6 is a fad 2024-01-09 04:28:15 ACTION ducks 2024-01-09 04:36:32 haha 2024-01-09 04:36:35 \o/ 2024-01-09 05:29:35 Hey, I just flashed a USB stick with the Extended release (x86_64) and whenever I try to boot it, I get to the grub prompt and it freezes completely 2024-01-09 05:30:21 I see the boot entry list, with only one member, "Linux lts" 2024-01-09 05:31:48 Since it looks like a grub-specific problem, I checked whether secure boot was enabled, and it wasn't, but I'm kind of stumped about what to try next 2024-01-09 05:31:52 Not had this problem before 2024-01-09 06:18:24 to be clear, it's freezing on the selection menu; before you've actually pressed enter (or let the countdown finish)? 2024-01-09 11:14:40 so nice to see the progress on package variety<3 2024-01-09 11:15:09 years ago there were only 2 vnc clients, and now there are at least 5 2024-01-09 12:12:29 whats the smallest package in repo? 2024-01-09 12:13:49 some meta package 2024-01-09 12:14:00 bunch of small apps are 80k 2024-01-09 12:39:06 hey all.. 2024-01-09 12:39:18 (nick going to change.. sorry.. ) 2024-01-09 12:39:24 hi 2024-01-09 12:39:39 default cron, does it not run /etc/periodic/daily/scripts ? (seems not to.) 2024-01-09 12:40:23 grep cron /var/log/messages shows 15min, hourly 2024-01-09 12:40:42 even at 23:30, 23:45, 00:00, 00:15.. 2024-01-09 12:41:11 etckeeper installs itself into periodic/daily but never seems to get a hit.. 2024-01-09 12:41:33 0 2 * * * run-parts /etc/periodic/daily 2024-01-09 12:42:54 Guest13472: what does run-parts --list /etc/periodic/daily return? 2024-01-09 12:43:06 Guest13472: If I recall correctly, the scripts should end in .sh 2024-01-09 12:43:33 run-parts: unrecognized option: list 2024-01-09 12:43:39 :/ 2024-01-09 12:43:52 --test it looks like 2024-01-09 12:44:08 shows etckeeper 2024-01-09 12:44:28 hmm.. git log shows it running on the 5th.. but not 6, 7, 8 2024-01-09 12:45:13 daily does run (bad grep 'daily\|hourly' ) syntax 2024-01-09 12:49:31 https://privatebin.net/?a08f7e9355a6bd28#BmQavVs1xdw8twATrVwV64nvEQFLYhvysenHtDuioBHU 2024-01-09 12:49:50 ok.. not sure why not running.. open to suggestions 2024-01-09 12:50:38 AVOID_DAILY is commented for reference.. -x doesn't show it.. and therefor looks like it should run /etc/etckeeper/daily 2024-01-09 13:42:38 zcrayfish: Yes 2024-01-09 18:14:01 Appreciate this is not strictly an Alpine thing but does anyone have good links to improve SSD write performance? New disk, almost empty |data size] but write speeds are appaulingly slow 2024-01-09 18:14:39 what kind of write performance? random? sequential? 2024-01-09 18:15:45 just to use the deadline scheduler 2024-01-09 18:15:55 Doing a large Alpine update and it has taken over an hour and still not complete. Only the install part that is slow 2024-01-09 18:16:11 pi? 2024-01-09 18:17:15 x230 Thinkpad with new Kingston 500G SSD with SATA interface 2024-01-09 18:17:57 EF``: filesystem in use? any LUKS or LVM? 2024-01-09 18:18:06 did you buy it from a reputable dealer? 2024-01-09 18:19:43 EF``: is it actually new? (not just new to you) 2024-01-09 18:19:51 did you check SMART info for it? 2024-01-09 18:20:03 Amazon so sort of ;-). Using ZFS 2024-01-09 18:20:30 so no 2024-01-09 18:20:53 best check it actually is kingston, and actually is 500G 2024-01-09 18:21:43 Once the update is done I'll run smartctl and check 2024-01-09 18:22:42 look at things like the powered-on hours, the amount of data written etc 2024-01-09 18:26:20 I still can't boot the installer >_> 2024-01-09 18:27:09 It qppears to be genuine and the right number of hours 2024-01-09 18:32:44 ikke: re your earlier question to determine the Grub version actually used to boot a system, rather than the currently installed Grub package version....Grub 2.12+ now makes that possible to determine via the "troublesome" BLI module - simply do a cat of the /sys/firmware/efi/efivars/LoaderInfo-* file 2024-01-09 18:32:59 that'll work for UEFI-booted systems only of course 2024-01-09 19:09:38 @ikke or @minimal. just a small addition to: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 . maybe add # arch or # uname -r to the wiki, for users who don't know "where to look". 2024-01-09 19:10:12 "uname -m" 2024-01-09 19:11:34 have a nice week. 2024-01-09 19:25:10 I'd like to know how they managed to install it in the first place without knowing the arch. heh 2024-01-09 19:26:05 my chromium is now completely broken. does not even show the window 2024-01-09 19:26:25 just a grey rectangle at the botoom 2024-01-09 19:27:12 chrome dome 2024-01-09 19:27:40 this solved it: rm -r .config/chromium/Default/GPUCache/ 2024-01-09 20:54:24 Hey everyone, 2024-01-09 20:54:37 Can I get some help from someone really good in Alpine Netboot? 2024-01-09 20:55:53 My issue is: I've got a PXE enivronment, booting an Alpine Netboot v3.19. One of the kernel params are ip=dhcp. The issue is that, if I try to boot a machine that has two NICs, I can't select which NIC will use DHCP. Sometimes, from the two NICs, Alpine picks the one that's disconnected so the DHCP fails => permanent DHCP request loop 2024-01-09 20:56:00 Does anyone know how to fix this? 2024-01-09 20:57:59 hac3ru: apparently you can specify device as argument 2024-01-09 20:58:02 https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/mkinitfs/-/blob/master/initramfs-init.in#L201 2024-01-09 20:59:06 Well, you can, but only if you use static addresses. 2024-01-09 20:59:12 For DHCP, I don't see any way to do that 2024-01-09 20:59:35 hac3ru: did you read that code? That is actually using dhcp 2024-01-09 20:59:51 line 208 2024-01-09 21:00:12 I read this: 2024-01-09 21:00:14 # Valid syntaxes: 2024-01-09 21:00:14 # :dns0-ip:dns1-ip:ntp0-ip 2024-01-09 21:00:14 # ip=dhcp 2024-01-09 21:00:14 # ip=client-ip:server-ip:gw-ip:netmask:hostname:device:autoconf: 2024-01-09 21:00:14 # "server-ip", "hostname" and "ntp0-ip" are not supported here. 2024-01-09 21:00:41 Ok, I see the device part, but I don't understand how many ":" I should use. 2024-01-09 21:01:31 hac3ru: From what I read, ip=dhcp device= should suffice 2024-01-09 21:01:50 Trying it now. 2024-01-09 21:03:15 Didn't work. I've set ip=dhcp device=eth0, it's trying to use eth1 though 2024-01-09 21:04:53 "ip=:::::eth0:dhcp:::" ? 2024-01-09 21:05:11 I'm thinking ip=dhcp::0:0::eth0 but I'll try that @minimal right now 2024-01-09 21:05:23 using defaults for all fields except device and autoconf 2024-01-09 21:05:36 oh right, there is no KOPT_device 2024-01-09 21:06:35 That actually worked! Thanks a ton! 2024-01-09 21:06:57 May I ask for another thing? Is there a way to set a fallback interface? In case dhcp fails on eth0, I'd love it to try eth1 2024-01-09 21:08:06 Don't think so 2024-01-09 21:08:44 :( 2024-01-09 21:08:53 Good think to suggest on alpine-devel ? :) 2024-01-09 21:09:49 I think that it's "easy" to achieve? Allow device to be added as a list, and try each, until udhcpc gets a DHCP response? I'm not trying to downplay it, just suggesting how it could be done ? - sysadmin here, not dev. 2024-01-09 21:10:56 hac3ru: that would require a change to the init script you were pointed to - it would have to loop through multiple interfaces and try them in turn 2024-01-09 21:11:15 Yeah, would that be complicated? 2024-01-09 21:11:28 It's hard to believe I'm the only one with this issue :D 2024-01-09 21:12:51 Also, since I'm new here, updates to the documentation - to include the newly discovered DHCP+device should be directed to #alpine-devel ? 2024-01-09 21:15:54 hac3ru: they are already documented in the man page 2024-01-09 21:15:57 https://man.uex.se/7/mkinitfs-bootparam 2024-01-09 21:16:40 I was reading this: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/PXE_boot :( 2024-01-09 21:19:57 Any clue who can update that wiki page? As when you google for Alpine Netboot PXE that's one of the first answers given. 2024-01-09 21:20:52 You can 2024-01-09 21:21:14 But I'm not a fan of repeating the already existing man page on the wiki 2024-01-09 21:21:19 it means another thing to keep up-to-date 2024-01-09 21:21:59 I can? Checking. 2024-01-09 21:22:03 Maybe shorten the wiki article and link to the man pages for the most part 2024-01-09 21:22:17 Also, maybe allow us to specify multiple IP entries? 2024-01-09 21:22:21 That would also be cool! 2024-01-09 21:22:35 That's what this page does: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Initramfs_init 2024-01-09 21:23:26 Feature requests can be added here: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/mkinitfs/-/issues 2024-01-09 21:24:02 Thank you! 2024-01-09 21:25:34 Hi all :-) 2024-01-09 21:26:44 Hello kmmndr 2024-01-09 21:31:00 ohai 2024-01-09 21:31:06 greets 2024-01-09 21:39:54 I still can't boot the installer 2024-01-09 21:40:02 Would love some help with that 2024-01-09 21:40:16 How are you trying to boot it? 2024-01-09 21:40:30 A USB flashed with the x86_64 image 2024-01-09 21:40:38 How did you flash it? 2024-01-09 21:41:00 dd 2024-01-09 21:41:31 Ok, and what happens if you try to boot it? 2024-01-09 21:41:34 As I mentioned earlier, it freezes once the grub menu appears 2024-01-09 21:42:45 I would say that either the USB is weird, or the write process didn't complete properly...? I had this issue once and I think I just tried with a different USB stick. Tried it? 2024-01-09 21:43:37 Well I have flashed this USB stick with alpine install images in the past and it worked fine, would be weird if it all of the sudden crapped out on me 2024-01-09 21:43:51 I'll try flashing it again with different options or something 2024-01-09 21:45:03 Well, USB sticks aren't the most reliable things in the world. Also, how are you writing it? dd / rufus / ? 2024-01-09 21:45:51 I already said dd ^ 2024-01-09 21:46:04 maybe also consider trying the standard image instead of the extended. Also, are you using an edge image, or 3.19.0? 2024-01-09 21:47:31 There is only one download option for x86_64 on the alpinelinux.org/downloads page 2024-01-09 21:47:33 I used that 2024-01-09 21:47:52 (It's 3.19.0) 2024-01-09 21:49:02 (Only one x86_64 option for the Extended release I should say) 2024-01-09 21:49:11 My money's on the USB stick being weird. I guess when it's trying to read a ton of stuff from it it's either corrupted or slow as hell, and it looks like it freezez. 2024-01-09 21:49:15 freezes* 2024-01-09 21:49:59 Nono, it definitely freezes, completely. I left it running overnight and no input registered at all 2024-01-09 21:50:13 It gets in a full deadlock for whatever reason 2024-01-09 21:59:41 Yeah, same exact problem for the standard release image 2024-01-09 21:59:59 Though I can clearly see the data being written and retained on the drive 2024-01-09 22:00:15 I feel like if it had totally crapped out I would notice it during the read-write process 2024-01-09 22:03:48 might check the downloads sha256sum and the USB's sha256sum after writing 2024-01-09 22:04:41 I've seen some distros say they were done writing in a few seconds that should take about a minute on USB2.0 2024-01-09 22:05:22 which I knew not to be true so I usually run 'sync' to make sure the drive writes are flushed to disk 2024-01-09 22:07:56 Can anyone recommend a light-weight approach for automounting media such as USB and SD cards with user permissions? I was originally trying to avoid udiskie etc to see if I could avoid needing things like elogind but I don't seem to be able to, really. While I wrote a bash script, it's not very dynamic and it also seems to prevent calibre from syncing. 2024-01-09 22:08:08 Mine is USB 3.x and the write took 200+ seconds (small block size) 2024-01-09 22:08:26 For the Extended release that is 2024-01-09 22:08:32 Standard took about a minute 2024-01-09 23:04:12 Checksum is taking an extraordinarily long time to finish though lol 2024-01-09 23:04:48 Liver_K: what is the hardware you're booting on? 2024-01-09 23:05:34 minimal: https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-elitedesk-705-g1-small-form-factor-pc/6893874/manuals 2024-01-09 23:05:38 also after you ran "dd" you *did* do sync before removing the usb stick, right? 2024-01-09 23:06:00 minimal: No... 2024-01-09 23:06:39 no? you do realise that when "dd" finishes it does NOT mean that all the data has actually been written to the USB stick yet? 2024-01-09 23:07:48 unless you use the "fsync" option for "dd"... 2024-01-09 23:09:49 I didn't know that, no 2024-01-09 23:10:01 Thanks for making me aware 2024-01-09 23:10:20 I'm surprised that you managed to get things working in past then when you "dd"ed older Alpine versions 2024-01-09 23:10:46 Me too, but I've used this exact process with successful results plenty of times before lol 2024-01-09 23:11:07 I thought dd synced itself when it finished 2024-01-09 23:11:20 https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/312687/why-is-sync-so-important-when-making-a-bootable-linux-usb-stick 2024-01-09 23:11:31 only if you give "dd" the fsync option... 2024-01-10 02:29:57 Ah of course, it was trying to image the entire 64 GB flash drive 2024-01-10 02:30:09 Yeah I am not waiting for that to finish at 2 MB/s lol 2024-01-10 02:34:22 :-), another way of knowing if r/rw op is still in progress is use krell or atop 2024-01-10 02:39:38 or iotop 2024-01-10 03:30:47 Ah damnit minimal left 2024-01-10 03:31:02 syncing after dd finishes did nothing 2024-01-10 03:31:09 Freezes in the exact same way 2024-01-10 03:41:03 Yeah I just tested this drive in another computer and of course it works fine lol 2024-01-10 03:41:25 Any ideas why this particular computer freezes when trying to boot the installer? 2024-01-10 03:51:03 I dunno offhand. seems like a system that ought to work alright at a glance. 2024-01-10 03:57:40 I'd try using the rear black USB ports instead of the blue ones. It shouldn't make a difference, but stranger things have happened. 2024-01-10 04:03:54 I had already tried front and back ports by the time I came here :/ 2024-01-10 04:04:25 Oh sorry you said black not back 2024-01-10 04:04:34 Sure I'll try the 2.0 ports 2024-01-10 04:09:33 No luck :( 2024-01-10 04:10:40 check for UEFI firmware updates perhaps? 2024-01-10 04:10:58 maybe unplug other drives tou have in or something? 2024-01-10 04:18:19 The 2.15 and older UEFI versions on that machine do have some issues with hanging, just reading their release notes at a glance... 2024-01-10 04:18:45 2.15 of what? 2024-01-10 04:18:54 Oh the spec 2024-01-10 04:19:24 https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/swdetails/hp-elitedesk-705-g1-small-form-factor-pc/6893874/swItemId/vc-219657-2 2024-01-10 04:21:49 I disabled legacy boot sources in the firmware config and that seems to yield slight different results, but it does still eventually freeze 2024-01-10 04:23:48 zcrayfish: The last update was from 2018 and that was 2.31, which is on this machine already 2024-01-10 04:24:09 Doubt there'll be a new version any time soon if ever 2024-01-10 04:25:27 They're definitely not doing new versions, there have been several CPU microcode updates that HP could have added to their UEFI image if they actually cared 2024-01-10 04:25:30 :( 2024-01-10 04:26:18 :( 2024-01-10 04:26:56 Stupid machine has brought me nothing but bad luck. Maybe I'll swap out the board sometime if I get a PSU that can power the one I'm thinking of swapping in 2024-01-10 04:27:41 wonder if you'd have better luck with Ventoy 2024-01-10 04:28:05 on your USB drive 2024-01-10 04:28:51 then you can just drop the ISO on there instead of imaging it 2024-01-10 04:31:26 The drive isn't the problem as I already confirmed 2024-01-10 04:32:01 I burned the image onto the drive as is and synced the written cache (thanks minimal lol) and it works fine on other machines 2024-01-10 04:33:21 it sounds like the drive isn't having a problem then, but could be the machine having an issue with the drive 2024-01-10 04:33:58 or at least the way it tries to load the info on it 2024-01-10 04:34:20 >__> 2024-01-10 04:34:28 You might want to read our previous conversations 2024-01-10 04:35:14 I read it 2024-01-10 04:47:53 Any official Alpine Linux presence at FOSDEM 2024? 2024-01-10 07:51:46 Being on a stable, LTS distro is much nicer than rolling release i much say. (i know that edge exists) 2024-01-10 07:52:07 It's funny how many breakages people will excuse over on something like arch 2024-01-10 07:57:24 Obvious bots are obvious 2024-01-10 08:07:31 All from 2604:bf00:561:2000::/56 2024-01-10 09:33:29 gamingirc: I find that usually what I want from a distribution is an extremely stable base, but a few select bleeding-edge programs. 2024-01-10 10:18:11 Hi guys 2024-01-10 10:18:20 I really need someone to help me make flatpak work 2024-01-10 10:18:47 Can't find any online resources and I've tried to set it up a few times to a point that I don't know where to ask for more help 2024-01-10 10:23:18 I've followed following guide: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Flatpak but at the step: flatpak -v search chromium I get: https://termbin.com/rtfs 2024-01-10 10:32:21 SpaceHobo: Which is great because application issues can be easily fixed with a revert, while everything else still works. If the machine can no longer boot because of issues with the base, fixing now requires much more effort. And if you can't fix it, you're left with a useless distro vs a uselsess application on a (very much still working) distro. 2024-01-10 10:33:10 Shove that instability up the chain 2024-01-10 10:55:33 frojnd: Which arch are you running on? 2024-01-10 10:57:25 x64 2024-01-10 10:57:59 I'm running with sway 2024-01-10 11:03:03 I may try regolith with sway soon 2024-01-10 11:03:42 If you're only using flatpak as --user (i.e. not system-wide), I'd suggest simply deleting /var/lib/flatpak and seeing if that fixes the issue: flatpak will simply rebuild it anyway. 2024-01-10 11:06:37 zcrayfish: Ok removed. But now I get directory doesn't exist https://termbin.com/cm2y also F: No installations directory in /etc/flatpak/installations.d. Skipping 2024-01-10 11:06:45 after flatpak -v search chromium 2024-01-10 11:11:09 What could be the reason flatpak has these problems to work on my computer? 2024-01-10 11:11:38 $ flatpak repair 2024-01-10 11:12:00 or if that doesn't work run it with root privs 2024-01-10 11:12:42 Allright 2024-01-10 11:12:52 with doas I did not receive: error: Authorization error: The name org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1 was not provided by any .service files 2024-01-10 11:13:10 yeah thats normal 2024-01-10 11:13:43 You might get rid of that by explicitly passing --user to every flatpak command you use.................................. 2024-01-10 11:14:53 Ok I ran flatpak -v search chromium now and It stays at: F: flatpak_dir_pull: Using commit c5ebbbc263d9a176d06468ba9414e57d38d1ad913d46a5d6c47a1fb7d11e26dd for pull of ref appstream2/x86_64 from remote flathub https://termbin.com/v35h 2024-01-10 11:15:26 Wow! 2024-01-10 11:15:30 It actually found something! 2024-01-10 11:15:42 Thank you so much guys 2024-01-10 11:15:51 no problem 2024-01-10 11:16:17 So solution was to run doas flatpak repair after removing /var/lib/flatpak 2024-01-10 11:17:27 funny yet useful that flatpak has a repair option 2024-01-10 11:18:05 Maybe I should edit wiki so I don't forget if I'll install another version of alpine 2024-01-10 11:19:38 not a bad idea 2024-01-10 11:19:48 hell I just edited it to add --user everywhere. O.o 2024-01-10 11:20:14 --user is really just better 2024-01-10 11:21:18 one of these days we better see _apk add --user_ 2024-01-10 11:24:14 lol 2024-01-10 11:27:58 Now I just have to figure out why I can't share screen in teams with chromium 2024-01-10 11:31:20 I think that's a wayland+flatpak limitation, let me see if I can find some documentation on the issue... 2024-01-10 11:33:01 No.. without flatpak 2024-01-10 11:33:16 According to the wiki wayland + chromium screen sharing should work 2024-01-10 11:33:34 I needed flatpak for Android Studio 2024-01-10 11:33:53 ah 2024-01-10 11:34:24 chrome probably still needs flags... something like.... -ozone-platform=wayland --enable-features=UseOzonePlatform,WebRTCPipeWireCapturer 2024-01-10 11:34:33 s/chrome/chromium 2024-01-10 11:34:36 Hm 2024-01-10 11:34:43 Let me try and run it with that and see 2024-01-10 11:35:08 both can be set in chrome://flags/ instead of having to change the way you launch it \o/ 2024-01-10 11:35:15 Oh that's nice! 2024-01-10 11:35:46 just searching for wayland there should pull up what you need 2024-01-10 11:37:48 lol @ "Chromium isn't your default browser" banner. 2024-01-10 11:51:28 Hm.. corpo ppl; wants to add some sort of "security software" on our linux machines. I think they are talking about cynet. It supports like 4 distros officially 2024-01-10 11:56:34 Ubuntu, SLES, RHEL, Fedora, Debian, and CentOS.... fun 2024-01-10 11:57:22 Hm I din't notice 2024-01-10 11:57:28 But on chromium I can't play youtube videos 2024-01-10 11:57:51 An error occurred. Please try again later. (Playback ID: gNP7uB_dIdnNsrYh) 2024-01-10 11:58:00 I have no problem playing on firefox 2024-01-10 12:58:55 frojnd: ah, so its not just me who have issues with chromium and youtube 2024-01-10 13:03:19 frojnd: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/issues/15585 2024-01-10 13:27:15 Definitely not just you, I have not used Chromium in several months... it was working before, but not today. heh. 2024-01-10 13:55:53 invidious to the rescue :P 2024-01-10 14:24:51 Does alpine officialy support downgrading versions? 2024-01-10 14:25:12 (Of packages) 2024-01-10 14:26:00 apk will not automatically do it unless --available is provided 2024-01-10 14:27:34 I know that it is possible, I mean if it is like arch linux where only the latest package version is supported. 2024-01-10 14:30:49 What do you mean with supported in this case? Older versions of packages might break due to dependencies for example 2024-01-10 14:37:36 morning sertonix. We added a whole bunch of parameters to the Template:Pkg on the wiki. Hope you like it. 2024-01-10 14:38:43 zcrayfish: I do need to look at the wiki again. But thanks for that! 2024-01-10 14:39:52 ikke: I am not sure myself. Whatever not that important 2024-01-10 15:20:13 i'm trying to build a package in a container but i see 2024-01-10 15:20:14 WARNING: opening /home/user1/packages//community: No such file or directory 2024-01-10 15:20:25 that makes me think that something is missing between those two dirs 2024-01-10 15:20:42 The repo name is missing 2024-01-10 15:21:05 ah that might be the case 2024-01-10 15:22:04 https://github.com/dngray/containers/blob/main/build/imapfilter/Containerfile 2024-01-10 15:22:35 ikke: where would i add the repo name? 2024-01-10 15:23:04 i looked at https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Abuild_and_Helpers and didn't see that 2024-01-10 15:23:12 community would be the repo name 2024-01-10 15:23:37 abuild derives it from the directory the package is located in 2024-01-10 15:24:16 hmm i think im doing something wrong here https://github.com/dngray/containers/blob/main/build/imapfilter/Containerfile#L39 2024-01-10 15:24:40 fyi it's based on this package https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/tree/3.18-stable/community/vault that was removed 2024-01-10 15:24:57 openbao hasn't got a release yet so i can't use that 2024-01-10 15:28:46 Fyi, you could use alpinelinux/build-base as base image 2024-01-10 15:29:11 That's what our ci uses 2024-01-10 15:30:55 oh yeah i probably should do that 2024-01-10 15:31:54 I can take a deeper look in a bit 2024-01-10 15:32:47 guess that means i don't have to load alpine-sdk or build-base 2024-01-10 15:33:28 dngray: when building packages such warnings are common. I think there was an issue for them. Maybe I can find it 2024-01-10 15:34:23 mm i think its causing my build to fail though at the end https://0x0.st/HIQ9.txt 2024-01-10 15:34:47 but i'm not getting any errors really 2024-01-10 15:35:28 The warning is normal, but it's suspicious the repo component is missing 2024-01-10 15:35:38 that just happens after fetching a heap of golang deps 2024-01-10 15:37:02 but it does seem to be compiled correctly, as i have a binary 2024-01-10 15:37:38 https://0x0.st/HIQV.txt 2024-01-10 15:38:56 dngray: do you use rootbld or not? 2024-01-10 15:39:09 no i haven't been 2024-01-10 15:39:20 i kinda followed https://www.fedux.org/articles/build-alpine-packages-in-a-container.html 2024-01-10 15:43:31 What happens if you define APORTSDIR=/home/user1/aports ? 2024-01-10 15:44:20 I think the way it is intended ist like this: 2024-01-10 15:44:35 cd /home/user1/aports 2024-01-10 15:44:57 APKBUILD=main/bash/APKBUILD abuild -r 2024-01-10 15:45:28 hmm i can do that. 2024-01-10 15:45:41 Then the detection of the aportsdir also works (and then the correct repo name is found) 2024-01-10 15:45:45 right. 2024-01-10 15:45:48 also if i switch to 2024-01-10 15:45:49 FROM docker.io/alpinelinux/build-base:latest AS build 2024-01-10 15:45:57 will i be able to install packages like go stuff 2024-01-10 15:46:24 Error: building at STEP "RUN apk add --update --no-cache --no-progress go python3 nodejs npm yarn libcap-utils": while running runtime: exit status 99 2024-01-10 15:46:44 ERROR: Unable to lock database: Permission denied 2024-01-10 15:46:45 ERROR: Failed to open apk database: Permission denied 2024-01-10 15:48:01 I think that container has a default user set to non root. Maybe try prefixing the apk commands with sudo 2024-01-10 15:48:16 oh yeah that might be a good point 2024-01-10 15:48:23 which means i wouldn't have to create a user and all that 2024-01-10 15:53:39 doas 2024-01-10 15:54:01 And you do need to add the community repo yourself 2024-01-10 15:54:36 Liver_K: I didn't specifically say that failure to sync was the actual cause of your problems, rather that as a general point with any removable device that you "dd" to you need to make sure the "dd" has actually finished writing before you remove it as just because "dd" finishes does NOT mean that writing has completed 2024-01-10 15:56:54 ikke: oh yeah, i forgot about that. 2024-01-10 16:07:11 dngray: I use something like https://github.com/docker-suite/apk-builder combined with qemu-user to let me build for other archs as well 2024-01-10 16:07:57 yeah i found it's a lot less stuff i have to set up with that image 2024-01-10 16:08:34 https://github.com/dngray/containers/blob/main/build/imapfilter/Containerfile i'm trying now with that to see 2024-01-10 16:08:47 no errors yet 2024-01-10 16:09:16 hmm though i did see 2024-01-10 16:09:18 WARNING: opening /home/buildozer/packages/community: No such file or directory 2024-01-10 16:09:27 That's fine 2024-01-10 16:09:33 so that might be fine as you say 2024-01-10 16:09:44 since no packages have been built yet 2024-01-10 16:12:33 minimal: Did you see the conclusion of that problem? 2024-01-10 16:12:48 Apparently the machine is just broken \o/ 2024-01-10 16:13:05 It boots my win10 installation fine, but not this alpine installer stick 2024-01-10 16:13:41 ikke: yeah i figured it said that 2024-01-10 16:14:11 btw i know this has been asked 100 times probably but is there any progress on moving to s6 for bare metal? 2024-01-10 16:14:25 i remember hearing about it ages ago, and something about maybe alpine linux 4 2024-01-10 16:14:37 Liver_K: yes I did, my *general* point remains, don't forgot to run "sync" (and wait for it to complete) when copying using "dd" 2024-01-10 16:14:42 dngray: s6 as it is now is not yet suitable as a replacement for openrc 2024-01-10 16:14:57 ah, so more that it needs work 2024-01-10 16:15:04 yes 2024-01-10 16:15:15 i had wondered because i think there was a void/artix variant that used it 2024-01-10 16:19:10 minimal: I'm not disputing what you said lol, but maybe you have more ideas for a fix than what we came up with ("firmware bug") 2024-01-10 16:23:42 hmm, damn that failed https://0x0.st/HI1z.txt 2024-01-10 16:23:52 seems to be the same error 2024-01-10 16:24:05 https://github.com/dngray/containers/blob/main/build/imapfilter/Containerfile 2024-01-10 16:24:31 vault*: Found binary with extra capabilities: /aports/community/vault/pkg/vault/usr/sbin/vault 2024-01-10 16:24:35 That's just a policy thing 2024-01-10 16:24:54 so must be 2024-01-10 16:24:56 prepare_subpackages failed 2024-01-10 16:25:34 Either remove those capabilities, or add the `setcap` option 2024-01-10 16:26:30 The proper way to do it is to use the capabilities setting in openrc 2024-01-10 16:26:42 oh i wonder if it's because the container is rootless 2024-01-10 16:27:12 vault adds a capibility so that it can lock memory 2024-01-10 16:27:20 yeah that's right i remember now 2024-01-10 16:28:05 IPC_LOCK it was 2024-01-10 16:37:02 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50031086/why-does-vault-by-hashicorp-require-the-ipc-lock-capability-to-be-enabled 2024-01-10 16:37:15 i might be able to enable it for the building of the package, and then simply not enable it on the client container 2024-01-10 16:37:37 tbh i could probably comment out all the web based stuff too for it 2024-01-10 16:38:09 Liver_K: nope no ideas as they is little information to go on. Did you try Alpine 3.18.x to see if that boots? 2024-01-10 16:38:13 right, without extra capabilities on the container, the binary would fail to run 2024-01-10 16:38:44 the APK has 2024-01-10 16:38:51 # Allow vault to use mlock as "vault" user. 2024-01-10 16:38:53 setcap cap_ipc_lock=+ep \ 2024-01-10 16:39:00 i wonder what the +ep is 2024-01-10 16:39:49 Effective and Permitted 2024-01-10 16:39:52 https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/cap_from_text.3.html 2024-01-10 16:41:23 https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/389879/how-to-set-capabilities-with-setcap-command 2024-01-10 16:42:03 so you set them inside the container, not just using that option on podman/docker 2024-01-10 16:42:20 ie --cap-add=IPC_LOCK 2024-01-10 16:42:44 the latter allows binaries with that capability to run 2024-01-10 16:42:50 right. 2024-01-10 16:44:22 minimal: Not yet, I could try that though 2024-01-10 16:48:35 hmm, damn that still didn't work 2024-01-10 16:48:45 dngray: what failed? 2024-01-10 16:48:50 maybe i need to do 2024-01-10 16:49:00 Did you add the setcap option to the APKBUILD? 2024-01-10 16:49:02 RUN setcap "cap_ipc_lock=+ep" 2024-01-10 16:49:12 yeah its already ion there 2024-01-10 16:49:39 https://github.com/dngray/containers/blob/main/build/imapfilter/vault/APKBUILD#L107 2024-01-10 16:50:01 I mean as an option 2024-01-10 16:50:06 oh, no 2024-01-10 16:50:13 how do i do that, sorry if that's a silly question 2024-01-10 16:50:54 options=".. setcap" 2024-01-10 16:51:15 abuild does not allow binaries to have capabilities by default 2024-01-10 16:51:22 right. 2024-01-10 16:51:47 which config does it go in? 2024-01-10 16:51:53 oh in the APKBUILD 2024-01-10 16:51:55 at the top 2024-01-10 16:51:58 https://github.com/dngray/containers/blob/main/build/imapfilter/vault/APKBUILD#L19 2024-01-10 16:53:04 options="!check setcap" 2024-01-10 16:53:07 so that should be right 2024-01-10 16:53:20 sorry for double checking vault takes yonks to get all the go/yarn deps lol 2024-01-10 16:53:27 hoping this works next time 2024-01-10 16:53:28 yes 2024-01-10 16:54:01 here goes :) 2024-01-10 16:54:21 btw thanks for telling me about the build container 2024-01-10 16:54:23 dngray: Not sure if your container solution supports it, but docker can mount cache volumes for RUN commands 2024-01-10 16:54:28 dngray: no problem 2024-01-10 16:55:49 just old podman 2024-01-10 16:55:54 i should look into using buildah 2024-01-10 16:55:58 because that can do stages cool 2024-01-10 16:56:10 was reading about t hat 2024-01-10 16:56:24 https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2019/02/21/podman-and-buildah-for-docker-users 2024-01-10 16:56:30 RUN --mount=type=cache,target=/home/buildozer/go,uid=1000 2024-01-10 16:57:33 it's all part of the buildkit 2024-01-10 16:57:34 https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2019/02/21/podman-and-buildah-for-docker-users#what_is_buildah_and_why_would_i_use_it_ 2024-01-10 16:58:10 buildah and podman both should support that 2024-01-10 16:58:40 yeah they do 2024-01-10 16:59:50 hmm i don't think that article is the one that i remember seeing 2024-01-10 17:01:17 the article i read said there is greater control over build process, you ca restart at stages, and something about better inspection 2024-01-10 17:01:26 been meaning to try it out 2024-01-10 17:01:50 hmm, that would be nice 2024-01-10 17:02:12 that post kind of hints at it 2024-01-10 17:02:25 > Podman does do builds and for those familiar with Docker, the build process is the same. You can either build using a Dockerfile using podman build or you can run a container and make lots of changes and then commit those changes to a new image tag. 2024-01-10 17:03:29 with buildah you can actually go step by step 2024-01-10 17:03:48 as in, it drops you into namespace and you can just run commands 2024-01-10 17:03:58 yeah :P that. 2024-01-10 17:04:16 I'm pretty sure that process is in their github repo 2024-01-10 17:04:25 Unsure whether it's also available as blog post 2024-01-10 17:05:23 I need to check if they finally support heredocs 2024-01-10 17:05:43 i just usually comment the build commands out and then drop into interactive shell in the container and run abuild 2024-01-10 17:06:19 im looking forward to openbao though we will be able to have vault back in our repos 2024-01-10 17:06:37 https://thenewstack.io/meet-openbao-an-open-source-fork-of-hashicorp-vault/ and their logo is so cute 2024-01-10 17:06:51 dngray: yeah, once they make it available, I'll try to package it 2024-01-10 17:07:08 funny thing is, it's some guys at IBM that are working on it 2024-01-10 17:07:37 (not officially of course) 2024-01-10 17:08:01 what is interesting is archlinux still packages vault under the BUS license 2024-01-10 17:08:10 https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/vault/ 2024-01-10 17:08:18 is alpinelinux worried about being sued? 2024-01-10 17:08:25 No 2024-01-10 17:08:45 was reading about https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/27/bruce_perens_post_open/ recently. 2024-01-10 17:08:55 But we don't want to expose our users 2024-01-10 17:09:10 yeah i guess that's fair, does it have a non-compete thing in it? 2024-01-10 17:09:18 yes 2024-01-10 17:09:44 mm that's dangerous then i guess 2024-01-10 17:09:45 The license can be retroactively be retracted 2024-01-10 17:10:07 oh so they can just make it all rights reserved for all previous versions if they felt like it 2024-01-10 17:10:12 leaving users with nothing 2024-01-10 17:10:28 as opposed to just versions after a certain point? 2024-01-10 17:10:40 More like: you have a license to use it until they decide you don't 2024-01-10 17:11:26 Or more like to distribute it I suppose, not use it 2024-01-10 17:12:41 yeah, that could be an issue if you built some app around it, and then they decided one day not making enough money and they want to go with a complete copyright license forbidding usage without a fee 2024-01-10 17:13:08 and maybe your project was open source or something and free but you now have to pay and can't, so it kills your work/ 2024-01-10 17:13:14 i guess could be a hypothetical? 2024-01-10 17:13:31 yes, that could hypotethical happen 2024-01-10 17:14:33 interesting. 2024-01-10 17:57:59 dngray: I read somewhere recently that IBM using Vault was the main factor in Hashicorp changing their licensing, apparently nothing to do with Terraform use 2024-01-10 17:59:08 the implication was they were upset that IBM was making so much money off the back of Vault and they were not. Hashicorp's enterprise fees are supposedly high, but nowhere near as high as IBM's 2024-01-10 17:59:27 oh, he's gone, lol 2024-01-10 18:21:08 I'm still grumpy about the license change, but ever so slightly more accepting of it if it's a fight with IBM. 2024-01-10 18:21:13 but only ever so slightly 2024-01-10 18:24:20 durrendal: Hashicorp gained a lot of popularity by offering their products as open source. 2024-01-10 18:30:13 ikke: agreed, it was part of why I so eagerly adopted their tools in my professional work. The tools were excellent, and for a long time the licenses jived well with my own personal philosophies 2024-01-10 18:32:41 durrendal: there was some "tension" for a while before all this with Hashi asserting complete control over the "open source" dev of their tools, i.e. they could/would refuse to merge PRs to add functionality that competed with their Enterprise versions 2024-01-10 18:34:33 I had noticed that as well, which was probably an indication of where this was headed. It feels a lot like the Elastic v AWS issue too, where the open source community gets thrown to the side so the corporations can duke it out 2024-01-10 18:35:01 I'm personally excited to see the first release of opentofu come out :) 2024-01-10 18:37:54 I'd considered trying to package up opensearch for Alpine several times but every time I go look at the repos for it I walk away fast in the opposite direction ;-( 2024-01-10 18:38:31 It's a pity that there's no sign of a Consul or Nomad fork so far... 2024-01-10 18:38:54 opensearch would be really nice to have in Alpine, but java projects are.. fun 2024-01-10 18:39:01 I suppose because Consul -> etcd, Nomad -> k8s 2024-01-10 18:39:21 I did see an Elasticsearch/Opensearch compatible alternative recently (in Rust?) that sounded interesting 2024-01-10 18:39:25 the only vault fork I've seen any news on is the IBM secretsmanager, and I guess openbao, but there's no traction there 2024-01-10 18:39:41 openbao is not released yet 2024-01-10 18:39:43 there's loki from the folks that make grafana that fits a similar use case 2024-01-10 18:39:59 ikke: etcd does the K/V stuff that Consul does but it doesn't provide the DNS related service discovery functionality 2024-01-10 18:39:59 Yeah, I'm playing with loki 2024-01-10 18:40:01 that's what I thought, they just have a landing point thus far. I'm hopeful 2024-01-10 18:40:50 ikke: I've had good experiences with it. it uses less resources, especially disk space. But the search is a little slower. The tagging implementation using promtail alleviates it a lot though 2024-01-10 18:40:53 ikke: k8s isn't a "complete" alternative to Nomad, it only does (did?) the containers side, unless you count KubeVirt.....I'm tending towards Incus as the nearest thing to a Nomad alternative 2024-01-10 18:42:06 lxd has always been delightful to use, not quite the same as a k8s deployment, but a really solid containerization solution 2024-01-10 18:42:23 I've never used nomad though, so I can't compare directly there 2024-01-10 18:42:31 ikke:~ yes loki is an alternative doing things from a different perspective that ES/OS, it doesn't index the logs' content, just its metadata. Also loki is intended for logs whereas ES/OS is more "generic" in types of data it can injest 2024-01-10 18:44:19 Yeah, they are not full alternatives, but for many people they suffice 2024-01-10 18:44:26 agreed 2024-01-10 18:44:55 So less traction to maintain those 2024-01-10 18:45:22 found my notes, the ES/OS compatible project is quickwit 2024-01-10 18:45:38 it supports the ElasticSearch JSON injestion API 2024-01-10 18:46:00 so things like LogStash, File/Audit/Metrics beats etc can talk to it 2024-01-10 18:46:33 interesting 2024-01-10 18:46:34 ooh interesting, that might be worth a look 2024-01-10 18:46:42 but it goes down a similar road as Loki as to storing data in S3 unlike ES/OS themselves 2024-01-10 18:47:08 yeah, I have consider packaging it to play with it but I've got enough on my plate curently 2024-01-10 18:47:23 it also supports Grafana 2024-01-10 18:50:04 https://quickwit.io/blog/quickwit-0.7 2024-01-10 18:53:15 BTW I encountered a cringeworthy term recently: "Information Radiator" which apparently is a Agile term. Grafana and Kabana would be "Information Radiators"....yuck! 2024-01-10 18:56:04 yuck indeed 2024-01-10 18:56:10 buzzword without content 2024-01-10 18:57:45 maybe I'll just misuse the term to refer to monster servers (i.e. high wattage) - "that Xeon server sure is an Information Radiator" ;-) 2024-01-10 18:57:54 lol 2024-01-10 18:59:20 I could have been an Agile practitioner but I failed to gain my Super Red 3-Stripe Gamma Sigma belt :-( 2024-01-10 19:00:11 I failed that on a technicality: I didn't believe in (fr)agile lol 2024-01-10 19:00:58 Since when is that a requirement :+ 2024-01-10 19:02:00 I wonder how you bleed an Information Radiator and how often you should do so :-) 2024-01-10 20:10:48 hello 2024-01-10 20:48:54 curious, why does font-dejavu require mkfontscale? 2024-01-10 21:04:57 hello 2024-01-10 21:08:31 does setup-apkrepos have a function to select only (examples) https or ftp mirrors? 2024-01-10 21:16:53 no; why? 2024-01-10 22:11:56 st 164k depends on liberation font 4mb 2024-01-10 22:13:12 i guess it solves the problem with ugly fonts in new install tho :p takling linux in general 2024-01-11 06:46:37 Getting "Devices cgroup isn't mounted" while starting docker on freshly installed alpine 3.19 2024-01-11 08:25:30 https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/contents?file=&path=&name=lua-cjson&branch=v3.19&repo=main&arch=x86_64 2024-01-11 08:26:05 it shows this package contains nothing 2024-01-11 08:35:07 fascinating 2024-01-11 08:39:20 qaqland: the files you're looking for are in a $lver subpackage 2024-01-11 12:42:47 hello o/ perhaps a silly question, but how can I permanently set the root fs to shared for rootless podman? 2024-01-11 12:43:44 tried adding `shared` to /etc/fstab, but that didn't seem to help 2024-01-11 12:44:09 The rootfs is mounted by the initramfs 2024-01-11 12:45:12 You probably need to set the rootflags kernel argument 2024-01-11 12:46:22 No, rootflags are passed to -o 2024-01-11 12:48:21 wuzado: It does read fstab though 2024-01-11 12:49:08 what do you reckon I should do, then? also, forgot to mention that it's a sys install 2024-01-11 12:57:19 I'd expect adding `shared` to the fstable entry would work 2024-01-11 15:27:05 ikke: there's this pr that's been open for a while now for that... https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/pull/526 2024-01-11 16:12:34 Hi, 2024-01-11 16:12:34 I have problem with running service. 2024-01-11 16:12:34 When I run rc-service zigbee2mqtt start , my zigbee2mqtt front end shows up but there is no device at all 2024-01-11 16:13:17 When I type zigbee2mqtt directly onto the shell, it works as well and with all my devices there on the front end page :o 2024-01-11 16:13:20 any idea? 2024-01-11 16:16:12 maybe in your shell it runs as root and can access the right device in /dev, and via rc-service it runs as some non-root user and cannot access it? 2024-01-11 16:16:28 I think that's it 2024-01-11 16:16:37 but I'm not sure how to achieve it 2024-01-11 16:16:44 i'd expect z2m to log something about that, by the way 2024-01-11 16:17:03 it seems it doesn't "read" the configs 2024-01-11 16:17:13 that could also be permissions 2024-01-11 16:17:45 or! the rc script could be passing it some arguments, to point it to the right path 2024-01-11 16:17:48 these are things you need to figure out 2024-01-11 16:18:10 this is the install bash 2024-01-11 16:18:11 bash -c "$(wget -qO - https://github.com/tteck/Proxmox/raw/main/ct/alpine-zigbee2mqtt.sh)" 2024-01-11 16:18:28 I'm quite new to alpine linux, and a newbie in linux in general, kinda lost here :D 2024-01-11 16:20:14 here is a desciption of the issue 2024-01-11 16:20:14 https://github.com/tteck/Proxmox/discussions/1438#discussioncomment-8097938 2024-01-11 16:21:11 Habbie: how to achieve that? 2024-01-11 16:26:45 if you're new to things, I strongly recommend that you do not run random shell scripts from random websites, btw 2024-01-11 16:27:54 bidalos[m], i don't have more answers 2024-01-11 16:32:17 alright thanks 2024-01-11 16:35:04 or at least read the script first, and understand what it's doing before you paste in that command 2024-01-11 19:14:57 Anyone successfully using targetcli on 3.19? 2024-01-11 22:06:05 hi, i'm trying alpine on diskless mode, learning how lbu work... what's the best way to make /var/{log,lib} etc persist on reboot? 2024-01-11 22:07:52 You can include directories with lbu add, but depending on what want to persist, lbu might not be the best option there 2024-01-11 22:08:01 especially things like /var/log 2024-01-11 22:08:39 You can consider mounting those directories on persistent storage 2024-01-11 22:09:14 (ie, when rebooting, do you want to restore the logs from since the last time you committed them, which theoretically could be months ago) 2024-01-11 22:10:49 exactly, that's why i'm asking, i tried to bind mount to a persistent hdd storage but if i bind mount the entire /var dir they are shadow the preexisting /var from the boot media 2024-01-11 22:11:32 You'd need to create specific partitions for them, move the data, and then mount them 2024-01-11 22:12:12 thanks, but there is no a better way to do this? 2024-01-11 22:12:34 and i need to do what you say on every boot? 2024-01-11 22:13:44 The setup supports a data mode, where /var is stored on disk 2024-01-11 22:15:58 oooh thank you, i need to try this. sorry for being a noob 2024-01-12 00:56:03 Hi! Does anybody know how "mount -at ..." (as used by alpines localmount script) determines the mount order? Is it following the order of fstab, top to bottom? And if yes, is this behavior guaranteed? 2024-01-12 01:01:30 well first off it is upstream OpenRC's localmount script 2024-01-12 01:02:06 second, which "mount" are you referring to? Busybox-s or util-linux's? 2024-01-12 01:03:01 I believe fstab is read top-down (from past experience having to move an entry to ensure things were mounted in the correct order) 2024-01-12 01:03:46 is top-down guaranteed? you'd have to ask either/both upstream Busybox and util-linux Devs... 2024-01-12 01:04:13 I think it is Busybox, having /bin/mount -> /bin/bbsuid 2024-01-12 01:08:27 @minimal but thanks for your answers. Yes, I experience the expect behavior (top to bottom), I'd just like to figure out whether I am relying on an undefined behavior or whether it is specified. 2024-01-12 01:10:38 "generic" Linux manpage for fstab refer to "The order of records in fstab is important because fsck(8), mount(8), and umount(8) **sequentially** iterate through fstab..." 2024-01-12 01:11:49 did you search online regarding this? 2024-01-12 01:13:57 oh thx a lot. I read the manpage for mount and the /etc/init.d/localmount script to avoid an embarrassing RTFM situation, but missed "man fstab".. :) 2024-01-12 11:35:24 inkscape seem to use monospace spacing even on non-monospace fonts? also anyone know of a font that is easy to read in small print (that works with inkscape, i guess it should be monospace too ...) 2024-01-12 11:44:55 frag, not here, for example font “sans-serif” doesn't use monospace spacing 2024-01-12 11:47:00 hm, actually sans-serif has a red line thoguht it, so i guess i dont have an option for it .. 2024-01-12 11:50:08 I mean any font that's not monospace (I had other “sans serif” fonts just used for testing) 2024-01-12 11:52:27 okok, weird.. 2024-01-12 11:55:50 frag, http://fifth.space/misc/inkmonoscape.png 2024-01-12 11:56:13 That's Noto sans-serif, monospace, and sans-serif (also red-barred here) 2024-01-12 11:56:57 right, my inkscape also starts out not creating spacing at all, so all chars are superinposed on the first :S, even after deleting .config/inkscape 2024-01-12 11:57:10 :/ 2024-01-12 11:57:39 I think that's the first time I run inkscape ever, so can't help you more than that there :/ 2024-01-12 11:58:09 oh rly, yeah been a while for me too, i remember the settings can be hard to figure out tho.. 2024-01-12 17:35:34 Hi, I am on Alpine 3.19 / I have installed "doas" and get this error when run as user: (doas: not installed setuid) - setuid is definitely on /usr/bin/doas, user added to the wheel group, edited the conf file to include the wheel group. All has been done, but I am at loss as what It can be. Can anyone help? 2024-01-12 17:46:46 DeepDive: What kind of system / machine are you running alpine on? 2024-01-12 17:46:57 raspberry 2024-01-12 17:47:05 What arch? 2024-01-12 17:47:25 apk --print-arch 2024-01-12 17:47:39 armhf 2024-01-12 17:52:06 ls -l /usr/bin/doas 2024-01-12 17:52:29 -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 30036 Aug 4 14:46 /usr/bin/doas 2024-01-12 17:52:41 Filesystem mounted nosuid? 2024-01-12 17:52:50 SpaceHobo: was just thinking about that 2024-01-12 17:53:00 checking fstab? 2024-01-12 17:53:06 cat /proc/mounts 2024-01-12 17:53:07 mount 2024-01-12 17:53:13 grep suid /proc/mounts 2024-01-12 17:53:54 shall I copy/paste the whole lot or a specific line? 2024-01-12 17:54:02 ah soprry 2024-01-12 17:54:09 one moment, didnt see the grep 2024-01-12 17:54:43 sysfs /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:43 proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:43 devtmpfs /dev devtmpfs rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,size=10240k,nr_inodes=45969,mode=755 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:43 devpts /dev/pts devpts rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:43 shm /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:44 tmpfs / tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime,size=524288k,mode=755 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:46 tmpfs /run tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,size=87772k,nr_inodes=819200,mode=755 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:48 mqueue /dev/mqueue mqueue rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:50 securityfs /sys/kernel/security securityfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:52 debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:54 configfs /sys/kernel/config configfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:54:56 yeah, so everything is nosuid 2024-01-12 17:55:00 pstore /sys/fs/pstore pstore rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:55:02 tracefs /sys/kernel/debug/tracing tracefs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0 2024-01-12 17:55:13 how to change? 2024-01-12 17:55:14 tmpfs / tmpfs rw,nosuid 2024-01-12 17:55:27 DeepDive: Is that set in /etc/fstab? 2024-01-12 17:55:45 tmpfs / tmpfs defaults,rw,nodev,nofail,noatime,nosuid,size=512M 0 0 2024-01-12 17:55:46 yes 2024-01-12 17:55:56 remove nosuid from fstab? 2024-01-12 17:56:19 yes 2024-01-12 17:56:30 thank you! and reboot (naturally) 2024-01-12 17:56:42 you can remount suid 2024-01-12 17:56:46 mount -oremount,suid 2024-01-12 17:56:46 mount -o remount,suid / 2024-01-12 17:57:00 one moment ... 2024-01-12 17:57:19 DeepDive: oh, and don't forget lbu commit 2024-01-12 17:57:35 I learned the lesson already (losing stuff) ;-) 2024-01-12 17:57:40 heh 2024-01-12 17:58:36 the user must re-login for it to work? 2024-01-12 17:59:15 No, that should not be required (though, it would be if you just added yourself to the wheel group) 2024-01-12 17:59:52 success! :-) 2024-01-12 18:00:04 cool 2024-01-12 18:00:10 can you verify it sticks after reboot? 2024-01-12 18:00:31 I shall reboot (lbu commit done) 2024-01-12 18:02:31 It sticks! :) 2024-01-12 18:03:01 Guys, thank you so much for helping1! I dont think I would have ever made it by myself 2024-01-12 18:03:11 Glad it works 2024-01-12 18:03:23 Thanks again! 2024-01-12 18:04:54 Sweet! 2024-01-12 18:14:54 Goodbye guys ... have a good day :-) 2024-01-12 18:24:22 hi. since the latest chromium upgrade (today), the browser doesn't start anymore https://0x0.st/HlPw.png 2024-01-12 18:30:00 maybe because of this opus-problen/ffmpeg "fix". 2024-01-12 18:38:51 can someone else confirm this problem on his system 2024-01-12 18:51:20 libffmpeg.so 2024-01-12 19:34:13 before i try to sleep, anyone? i need the browser for work 2024-01-12 19:34:42 I don't use chromium 2024-01-12 19:35:07 is ncopa available ikke 2024-01-12 19:35:13 or the maintainer 2024-01-12 19:35:30 its a big f.. bug :( 2024-01-12 19:36:20 there is no such thing on my system, like libffmpeg.so 2024-01-12 19:36:41 bookmarks not exported, cannot use ff. 2024-01-12 19:38:04 plz tell somebody, you have my link above. can't be the only one. i go to sleep now 2024-01-12 19:39:00 edge or 3.19? 2024-01-12 19:39:07 edge 2024-01-12 19:39:14 ACTION just installed the 120.0.6099.199-r0 -> 120.0.6099.216-r0 on edge x86_64 and it's working . . . 2024-01-12 19:39:22 just udated 2024-01-12 19:39:31 wtf 2024-01-12 19:39:33 idk 2024-01-12 19:39:36 which arch? 2024-01-12 19:39:50 x86_64 2024-01-12 19:40:25 do you have libffmpeg.so 2024-01-12 19:40:41 somewhere, somehow 2024-01-12 19:41:53 again https://0x0.st/HlPw.png 2024-01-12 19:43:44 also did apk fix ffmpeg , just in case. 2024-01-12 19:45:39 There is no libffmpeg.so 2024-01-12 19:45:43 at least, not in alpine 2024-01-12 19:46:10 Error loading shared library libffmpeg.so: No such file or directory (needed by /usr/lib/chromium/chromium) 2024-01-12 19:47:01 this has to do with the 2nd fix. 2024-01-12 19:48:11 Just installed chromium, I get the same error 2024-01-12 19:48:17 heh 2024-01-12 19:48:29 uh 2024-01-12 19:48:30 I goofed. I did *NOT* do the upgrade as mentioned above, passed the -s flag. oops 2024-01-12 19:48:57 well, then we are at least 2 now 2024-01-12 19:49:29 it's this fix. i cannot remember details 2024-01-12 19:49:40 oleovit: You should open an issue on gitlab 2024-01-12 19:50:17 @ikke can't, no browser. i dont install ff... 2024-01-12 19:52:29 Same issue here after actually doing the upgrade. Note to self: coffee is a good idea upon waking up. 2024-01-12 19:52:35 plz, i do not want do install ff, either ikke or zcrayfish, plz open an issue if you have a working browser. ff is not working well here on wayland only 2024-01-12 19:53:21 ;) for me, no coffee anymore, too late 2024-01-12 19:55:15 It sounds like the bundled ffmpeg.so lib is not shipped in the package 2024-01-12 19:55:17 lnl: ^ 2024-01-12 19:55:36 yep ikke 2024-01-12 19:55:50 01f49628c0506c46236962af8fa344a4754e9fe0 removed ffmpeg as a dependency 2024-01-12 19:56:08 or rather, it removed it from the list of system libraries 2024-01-12 19:56:09 there is an open issue for that already 2024-01-12 19:56:27 #15669 2024-01-12 19:56:37 submitted !58807 2024-01-12 19:56:51 thank you 2024-01-12 19:57:09 oleovit: I have an emergency hack to get chrome started. 2024-01-12 19:57:37 @zcrayfish a special flag? 2024-01-12 19:57:43 install the deadbeef package, which contains an ffmpeg so.... 2024-01-12 19:57:46 and then 2024-01-12 19:57:49 ln -s /usr/lib/deadbeef/ffmpeg.so /usr/lib/libffmpeg.so 2024-01-12 19:58:00 You will want to undo this hack as soon as a real fix is found. 2024-01-12 19:58:21 absolutely undo it ;) 2024-01-12 19:59:41 well, thank you zcrayfish, if it takes a while until it is fixed, i will apply your hack. now, its too late here, have to sleep. 2024-01-12 19:59:48 alright, goodnight! 2024-01-12 20:00:30 night, and thx at ikke + lnl, like always. hard week. 2024-01-12 20:20:40 hi 2024-01-12 20:22:06 my boot partition in sda1, while sda2 and sda3 holds two alpine 318 2024-01-12 20:23:53 on updating sda2, on reboot it failed with no file or folfer is boot folder 2024-01-12 20:24:56 i booted with live alpine on usb,mounted both sda2 and sda3, both boot folders are empty 2024-01-12 20:25:42 my bootloader syslinu 2024-01-12 20:25:50 syslinux 2024-01-12 20:27:03 sda1 is boot, sda2 and sda3 are two seperate OS in each partition 2024-01-12 20:27:08 ??? 2024-01-12 20:27:28 what do you mean by "both boot folders"? you said sda1 is boot partition 2024-01-12 20:27:59 i'm guessing both 2 and 3 have an empty /boot to mount 1 on - but i really am guessing 2024-01-12 20:31:52 Habbie: indeed, lack of info to understand the problem 2024-01-12 20:32:00 yes 2024-01-12 21:04:30 'both boot folders', no, sda1 is boot, sda2 and 3 are partitions with alpine 3.18 installed in both 2024-01-12 21:06:00 @minimal sda2 and 3 are two partitions with alpine 3.18 installed in both 2024-01-12 21:06:14 github_user_010: you're not explaining yourself, it is unclear precisely what you are describing 2024-01-12 21:06:43 i will get terminal info 2024-01-12 21:07:45 sda 8:0 0 931.5G 0 disk ├─sda1 8:1 0 379M 0 part /boot ├─sda2 8:2 0 3.4G 0 part ├─sda3 8:3 0 413.5G 0 part └─sda4 8:4 0 514.3G 0 part 2024-01-12 21:08:44 @minimal sda1 is my boot partiton 2024-01-12 21:09:21 @minimal sda2, sda3 are two home partitions 2024-01-12 21:28:20 github_user_010: I assume this is a BIOS-based install (rather than UEFI) 2024-01-12 21:28:22 is the sda1 boot partition empty? also, just a heads up, no need for @ before usernames on IRC 2024-01-12 21:28:36 I assume this is a Sys-mode install rathe rthan run-from-ram, please confirm 2024-01-12 21:29:19 assuming it is Sys-mode are you mounting the filesystem on sda1 as "/boot" on both of the rootfs (sda2 & sda3)? 2024-01-12 21:51:14 How does the (automated) out of date flagging works? apk-tools is flagged out of date but incorrectly. 2024-01-12 21:51:15 https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/flagged?origin=apk-tools 2024-01-12 21:52:25 sertonix: this has been manually flagged, look at the "comment" 2024-01-12 21:52:37 indeed 2024-01-12 21:53:15 normally it would say "This package has been flagged automatically based on notification from Anitya..." 2024-01-12 21:53:30 I see '555' in the comment. Is that spam? 2024-01-12 21:53:41 "random" people appear to occasionally flag packages for no apparent reason 2024-01-12 21:53:53 Ok, understand 2024-01-12 21:54:21 They probably want apkv3 or whatever the new format is. heh 2024-01-12 21:55:26 I don't think so. There is a series of them 2024-01-12 21:55:40 xD https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/flagged?origin=unzip&repo=main 2024-01-12 21:56:09 sertonix: yupe, like I said "random" people... 2024-01-12 21:56:16 for "random" reasons 2024-01-12 22:02:53 zcrayfish: I mean... https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/merge_requests/58635 2024-01-12 22:04:22 ah 2024-01-12 22:11:55 is there any reason you need it packages? 2024-01-12 22:12:18 It has pre-builds and anyone doing development can build it themselves 2024-01-12 22:14:14 I just wanted to ease testing 2024-01-12 22:21:22 "minimal yes sys-mode install, sda1 which is boot partition is not empty but boot folder in sda2 and 3 are empty after update 2024-01-12 22:21:34 its a bios based install 2024-01-12 22:22:47 normally boot foders in sda2 and sda3 have linux kernel, initramfs and extlinux files 2024-01-12 22:23:19 but after update boot folders in sda2 and sda3 are empty 2024-01-12 22:29:59 ?? 2024-01-12 22:42:24 github_user_010: why is /boot not mounted from sda1? 2024-01-12 22:43:28 you are saying sda1 is the boot partition so doesn't it contain the kernel & initramfs etc files? 2024-01-12 23:15:02 they're gone 2024-01-12 23:16:23 well their install layout made no sense 2024-01-12 23:18:22 agreed 2024-01-12 23:20:16 2 installs sharing boot directory, so kernel package update or mkinitfs generation run on one rootfs would modify /boot files also used by other (non-upgraded) rootfs 2024-01-13 07:56:39 Networking, Where in the code is the packets being lifted to the right interface? 2024-01-13 10:55:43 Hello 2024-01-13 10:55:51 I added a “sticky” version of a package 2024-01-13 10:56:06 I'd like to remove that sticky lock but not sure how to do that 2024-01-13 10:56:44 isn't it in /etc/apk/world? 2024-01-13 10:58:25 apk-world(5) explains how to install a fixed version, but not how to undo that 2024-01-13 10:58:43 lopid, not sure what you mean :D 2024-01-13 10:58:52 Yes, the package name is present in the /etc/apk/world file 2024-01-13 10:59:58 but not the stickiness? 2024-01-13 11:00:05 nope 2024-01-13 11:00:08 oh 2024-01-13 11:00:10 $ grep -F picard /etc/apk/world 2024-01-13 11:00:10 picard 2024-01-13 11:03:57 Maybe if I delete it and reinstall it again… 2024-01-13 11:04:52 Yeah, seems like that did the trick 2024-01-13 11:05:03 Though I assume there's a better way than that 2024-01-13 14:42:47 @minimal 2024-01-13 14:43:52 @minimal i got the empt boot folder problem sorted by chrooting through live alpine and updating OS 2024-01-13 14:44:37 but i dont know what exactly caused the problem of empty boot folder on last update 2024-01-13 14:45:17 github010: what empty boot folder? you said sda1 was your boot partition 2024-01-13 14:45:36 so did you not have sda1 mounted as /boot on sda2 and/or sda3? 2024-01-13 14:49:23 @minimal well sda2 is mounted as /, and sda1 as /boot 2024-01-13 14:50:49 but on rebooting sda2 did not boot. I used live iso to mount sda2 to find the boot folder in sda2 to be empty 2024-01-13 14:51:17 does sda1's filesystem contain kernel, initramfs etc files? 2024-01-13 14:52:01 i chrooted into sda2, updated the OS, boot folder in sda2 was immediately repopulated - i rebooted the system and it logged me in 2024-01-13 14:52:02 the boot folder is sda2 is empty BECAUSE sda1's filesystem is mounted on /boot during boot 2024-01-13 14:52:17 does sda1's filesystem contain kernel, initramfs etc files? 2024-01-13 14:52:29 yes it does 2024-01-13 14:52:56 so there you go, as I said sda2's boot folder is MEANT to be "empty" as it is just a mountpoint for sda1 2024-01-13 14:53:42 then you used the "live ISO" to mount sda2 of course its boot folder was empty because *YOU* did not mount sda1 on that boot folder 2024-01-13 14:54:23 but sda2 boot folder was empty before i chrooted and it failed every time 2024-01-13 14:55:22 look at the /etc/fstab file in sda2, does it contain an entry for /boot ? 2024-01-13 14:55:36 yes it does 2024-01-13 14:55:59 there you go, so sda1 should be automatically mounted as /boot during boot 2024-01-13 14:56:49 the fact that sda1 contains kernel and initramfs files "proves" that sda1 WAS mounted at /boot at some point in the past 2024-01-13 14:56:50 ok so before when it was failing fstab did not have the sda1 entry 2024-01-13 14:57:16 github010: so how does fstab "magically" now have that entry? 2024-01-13 14:57:48 i don know, maybe when i chrooted and updated OS, it may have created an entry 2024-01-13 14:58:04 I don't believe so 2024-01-13 14:58:33 well dont know then 2024-01-13 14:58:45 also why have you 2 rootfs (sda2 and sda3) but only one "boot" filesystem? 2024-01-13 14:59:24 can i attach and post fstab to you 2024-01-13 14:59:34 can you please answer my last question? 2024-01-13 15:00:26 i made 3 partitions, sda1 as boot and sda2 and sda3 to have 2 seperate OS 2024-01-13 15:00:47 sda1 was booting both 2024-01-13 15:00:58 why? that is not a valid/correct solution 2024-01-13 15:01:02 bootloader is syslnux 2024-01-13 15:01:40 that "solution" is likely to break 2024-01-13 15:02:07 what is a valid solution then? thats what i thought to be workable 2024-01-13 15:02:41 the kernel stores *SOME* files in /boot and the rest elsewhere 2024-01-13 15:03:34 if you are running off sda2 and update the kernel it will write SOME files to /boot and some to sda2. If you then reboot into root on *sda3* the kernel and initramfs on /boot will NOT match the other kernel files on sda3 2024-01-13 15:03:44 and therefore a boot of sda3 will not work 2024-01-13 15:04:04 you CANNOT use a shared /boot with 2 rootfs 2024-01-13 15:04:49 ok so thats the probllem 2024-01-13 15:05:14 should i create two boot partitions then 2024-01-13 15:05:22 that's up to you 2024-01-13 15:05:54 you're doing something that the Alpine installer doesn't provide 2024-01-13 15:06:10 and so is not officially supported 2024-01-13 15:07:36 so should i delete sda1 entirely and house boot entirely on the OS partition 2024-01-13 15:07:47 thats is logical 2024-01-13 15:08:07 i will try that 2024-01-13 15:52:32 I ran sudo apk -U upgrade last night and accidentally closed the terminal during the upgrade. I ran the command again and it seemed to work fine, but after restarting I can't get past the BIOS. I plugged in a live USB and ran cat /var/log/messages but there's nothing past the shutdown. Any advice for how to fix this? Thanks 2024-01-13 15:54:10 precisely what do you mean by "I can't get pass the BIOS"? 2024-01-13 15:54:21 alos is it really a BIOS or is it UEFI? 2024-01-13 15:55:22 I think it's UEFI, sorry. When it boot, I enter the UEFI. I try manually selecting my drive, but after a few seconds I'm back at the UEFI menu again 2024-01-13 15:57:41 pop-os: which version of Alpine? 2024-01-13 15:58:06 pop-os: what UEFI menu? you mean the GRUB menu? 2024-01-13 15:58:54 I was on edge 2024-01-13 15:59:51 If you're using grub... you probably ran into https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0#grub_2.12 2024-01-13 15:59:56 at a glance anyway 2024-01-13 16:00:05 The menu where I push delete while booting and it takes me to the menu where I can select boot order and fan speeds and all that. But now I land there automatically, and even when I select my drive I'm there again. I worry that when I exited my update I messed something up 2024-01-13 16:04:34 Thank you for the link. It sounds like this may be unrelated to my closing the terminal during the update. I will try to chroot into my PC and run the command on this page 2024-01-13 16:09:06 Reading the release notes page, it looks like there are different sets of commands for if I'm using grub, bios, or efi. How do I check to make sure which one I'm using? I don't want to furthur worsen things 2024-01-13 16:11:29 itsfoss.com has an article saying that if I don't have /sys/firmware/efi then my system is using BIOS. Is that reliable on Alpine? My /sys folder seems to be empty, at least looking at my drive mounted from live usb, so I suppose I should use the bios command 2024-01-13 16:18:00 is sysfs unmounted? :o 2024-01-13 16:23:26 That was me, forgot it wouldn't log me in automatically. So I reboot to check and the menu is titled "UEFI BIOS utility" with my drive's boot option titled "UEFI OS." safe bet I think that it's UEFI. I'm not sure if sysfs is unmounted, gonna try chroot and running the efi command. fingers crossed 2024-01-13 16:23:30 zcrayfish, (pop-os already left so all i can do is explain a thing to you ;) ) i understand 2024-01-13 16:23:33 oh 2024-01-13 16:23:51 so, if you look at a filesystem mounted from a live system, sysfs won't be mounted inside it automatically 2024-01-13 16:23:55 it's also not useful to do that 2024-01-13 16:24:10 you can look at /sys on the live thing to figure out whether -that- was booted in BIOS or UEFI 2024-01-13 16:24:18 ahh gotcha, thank you 2024-01-13 16:24:40 sysfs is not a 'real' filesystem, it just looks like one, but actually just shows you things about the -currently- running system 2024-01-13 16:25:54 preaching to the choir 2024-01-13 16:25:57 \o/ 2024-01-13 16:26:00 :) 2024-01-13 16:26:38 I didn't know that, thanks for explaining, appreciate it 2024-01-13 16:29:39 "UEFI OS" sounds like either a EFI boot variable added by some software (as Alpine installer doesn't use UEFI boot variables) or some "magic" UEFI boot entry invented by your UEFI (if it automatically searched and "discovered" either grubx64.efi or bootx64.efi files) 2024-01-13 16:57:02 Okay, I'm reading the chroot wiki page, but how do I run the script on the wiki page if I'm in the alpine usb? I don't have a desktop environment or anything; it doesn't expect me to manually type out this whole script, does it? 2024-01-13 16:59:57 oh boy that script is a bit... dated... 2024-01-13 17:00:14 (assuming you are talking about https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Chroot#Performing_the_chroot ) 2024-01-13 17:00:24 Yes 2024-01-13 17:01:32 I mounted and ran the two modprobe commands, so I was trying to figure out how to run that script. But it sounds like that script is old lol 2024-01-13 17:03:02 indeed, idk if it would still work. Personally I'm not running stuff on any of my boxes that mentions grsec. 2024-01-13 17:04:11 take a look at: https://superuser.com/questions/111152/whats-the-proper-way-to-prepare-chroot-to-recover-a-broken-linux-installation 2024-01-13 17:04:19 the first answer I think is what you are trying to do 2024-01-13 17:04:46 paths may have to be changed of course, but it would give you a general idea 2024-01-13 17:05:02 every time I've had to do it, I just typed the stuff out. 2024-01-13 17:05:36 thanks 2024-01-13 17:05:47 I typed chroot /mnt and I think it may have worked 2024-01-13 17:17:43 The 3.20 release page talks about grub, but doesn't alpine use syslinux? I don't think I switched from whatever the default is 2024-01-13 17:20:30 You can look into your boot directory to deduce if you're using grub or syslinux 2024-01-13 17:22:40 syslinux should have a bunch of *.c32 files (for instance) 2024-01-13 17:23:02 I see those 2024-01-13 17:23:37 I also see a grub folder, but that could be because I ran update-grub before stopping to say 'wait am i actually using grub' 2024-01-13 18:02:55 how to run alpine linux in qemu aarch64 (I already tried but I didn’t have graphics and I me don’t know how to fix it) 2024-01-13 18:24:08 Artem: did you try using virtio-gpu? 2024-01-13 18:25:39 minimal: yes I tried it but without KVM 2024-01-13 18:28:08 what do you mean? 2024-01-13 18:28:27 how exactly did try it? 2024-01-13 18:31:42 hi, can i request a repackage of some packages for a different distro? particularly openrc scripts that are missing from artixx 2024-01-13 18:31:44 artix* 2024-01-13 18:32:29 Juest: you want Alpine devs to repackage some software for Artix? 2024-01-13 18:33:00 minimal: not necessarily alpine devs, just whoever contributed the init script to alpine 2024-01-13 18:33:11 not software, just init scripts 2024-01-13 18:33:17 eg qbitorrent-openrc 2024-01-13 18:34:10 Juest: but that would require modifications to relevant Artix package? so why aren't you asking Artix devs? 2024-01-13 18:34:27 they told me "he can repackage it for artix" 2024-01-13 18:34:50 who is "he"? 2024-01-13 18:35:06 the maintainer/contributor i assume? 2024-01-13 18:35:14 someone who's english isnt the best has responded me 2024-01-13 18:35:25 so then why not ask the relevant *Artix* package maintainer? 2024-01-13 18:36:11 okay, so its okay to just take the service file and package it for artix? 2024-01-13 18:36:49 why not? alpine is open source 2024-01-13 18:37:56 there isn't a maintainer for artix since it comes from arch linux and it works as is but apparently nobody bothered making a package for the systemd service translated into the other initds 2024-01-13 18:38:11 if it is the qbittorrent-nox-openrc package you're referring to, well it's license is GPL-2.0-or-later 2024-01-13 18:38:21 yup 2024-01-13 18:38:26 that one 2024-01-13 18:38:50 "...well it's license is GPL-2.0-or-later" 2024-01-13 18:39:14 im not super familiar with how licenses work 2024-01-13 18:39:20 ill look it up 2024-01-13 18:39:32 Is there a guide on how to create your own repository and is it possible to use a Git repository for this? 2024-01-13 18:44:07 ive pieced together the infos from here: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Creating_an_Alpine_package 2024-01-13 18:54:31 minimal: I ran qemu without the -enable-kvm option 2024-01-13 19:00:33 Artem: ok, but you haven't indicated if you used virtio-gpu 2024-01-13 19:01:45 you haven't (a) confirmed if the initramfs of the aarch Alpine you booted included the virtio-gpu module, and (b) whether you specified a qemu-system-aarch option to select virtio-gpu 2024-01-13 19:04:49 minimal: yes I used virtio-gpu if anything here are all the arguments qemu aarch64 "-cdrom /home/artem/alpine.iso -M virt -device virtio-gpu" 2024-01-13 19:07:48 Artem: you answered half of what I asked 2024-01-13 20:40:29 i just compiled lapce 0.3.0 on alpine 3.18 , it opens okay but keybindings, opening closing saving files and foldes do not function, file explorer dos not open within lapce window. 2024-01-13 20:41:44 is it because of inbuilt alpine lbraries whuch are dependencies o lapce 2024-01-13 20:42:10 or is iy a problem wirg lapce code 2024-01-13 20:44:33 github010: hard to tell just from that description 2024-01-13 20:46:45 which is the primary communication channel? matrix or irc? 2024-01-13 20:47:26 irc 2024-01-13 20:47:45 i also prefer chat so i hope yall dont mind me asking questions 2024-01-13 20:48:03 No, we don't mind people asking questions at all 2024-01-13 20:48:34 what's the main use of alpine? smallest footprint distro thanks to musl? 2024-01-13 20:49:47 Different people use it for different things. I use it as my daily driver and webserver host. 2024-01-13 20:50:04 some folks use it for routers/NAT. (more or less the original purpose of the distro) 2024-01-13 20:50:21 can it be used as a desktop/server system ? 2024-01-13 20:50:22 https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/111743556934844430 2024-01-13 20:50:27 Absolutely 2024-01-13 20:50:35 "like i think the key thing that differentiated alpine from all these other distributions is that it's *designed* to be *boring*." 2024-01-13 20:50:51 "you install it. it works. you eventually take it out of service. or maybe you don't, and it's still in service a decade and a half later and the hardware just dies." 2024-01-13 20:52:07 ah, i am not seeing a gui live image 2024-01-13 20:52:35 Yeah, that does not exist. You manually install a desktop on alpine 2024-01-13 20:52:36 There isn't one, but installing a GUI is trivial. 2024-01-13 20:52:42 e.g.: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/LXQt 2024-01-13 20:52:55 i see, so installation is cli/manual? 2024-01-13 20:53:24 well the setup-alpine script and apktools help a lot, but essentially yes 2024-01-13 20:55:10 i see 2024-01-13 20:55:17 it sounds like quite the exercise 2024-01-13 20:55:44 i tend to use windows primarily because of the effort it takes to manage a linux system and do things within it 2024-01-13 20:55:50 or mac os 2024-01-13 20:56:24 Juest: it also takes effort to configure Windows if you need anything specific 2024-01-13 20:56:59 but: alpine is different. it is not a desktop system out-of the box. 2024-01-13 20:57:12 you can install anything on it, and it works. but you need to know exactly what you need. 2024-01-13 20:57:14 It's started (and still primarily is) a server OS 2024-01-13 20:57:18 true, i already have windows configured and its easier to work with 2024-01-13 20:57:32 even configuring windows takes less effort than linux 2024-01-13 20:57:34 what is a windows manager? what is a terminal app? what is pulseaudio? what is dbus? 2024-01-13 20:57:35 for me 2024-01-13 20:58:02 fair enough, i see its popularly used in docker containers 2024-01-13 20:58:09 Juest: i doubt it. Please be so kind and install a VPN in Windows, that starts before you log in. 2024-01-13 20:58:19 huh 2024-01-13 20:58:28 :) 2024-01-13 20:58:29 thanks for the suggestion :) 2024-01-13 20:58:31 Juest: It was built as a light-weight OS that could run-from-ram 2024-01-13 20:58:41 That just happened to make it a good base for docker as well 2024-01-13 20:58:43 I need to get me one of those new fangly aarch64 Apples... So I can promptly delete Mac OS from it and install Alpine 2024-01-13 20:58:56 i understand, thanks, so its mainly for embedded devices 2024-01-13 20:59:04 Juest: or configure an active directory server to manage user access rights etc. 2024-01-13 20:59:36 zcrayfish: im not sure if asahi alpine is available 2024-01-13 20:59:43 It is 2024-01-13 20:59:48 oh nice 2024-01-13 20:59:51 there you go 2024-01-13 20:59:54 Someone from our community is working on it 2024-01-13 20:59:58 https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages?name=linux-asahi*&branch=edge&repo=&arch=&maintainer= 2024-01-13 21:00:05 ^ it is for the brave 2024-01-13 21:00:08 =) 2024-01-13 21:00:38 is there a chance to make the asahi version official at some point? 2024-01-13 21:00:52 What does official mean? 2024-01-13 21:00:53 as in officially endrosed by the alpine team 2024-01-13 21:00:58 Juest: "when it is ready" you mean? 2024-01-13 21:01:24 Not sure that will happen 2024-01-13 21:01:26 yeah, how far from done is it? 2024-01-13 21:01:34 If MPS is the maintainer, I'm going to use it no matter which repo it is. hehe 2024-01-13 21:01:41 He is 2024-01-13 21:01:42 s/it is/it's in 2024-01-13 21:01:58 it is burnt to a crisp on one side and lightly toasted on the other side 2024-01-13 21:02:09 haha 2024-01-13 21:02:45 it has a "crazy" boot sequence 2024-01-13 21:07:02 this how it boots: https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/111686102134837867 2024-01-13 21:07:26 woah 2024-01-13 21:07:43 I thought some of the old macPPC (32-bit) stuff was crazy. now it's getting wild. 2024-01-13 21:07:46 they forgot to add Syslinux and Limine ;-) 2024-01-13 21:17:23 hah, would alpine run on a ibook g4? 2024-01-13 21:17:37 Isn't that 32-bit PPC? 2024-01-13 21:17:40 IOW: no. 2024-01-13 21:20:21 zcrayfish: not sure 2024-01-13 21:22:22 it is, so there's no chance of getting Alpine running on it. 2024-01-13 21:26:47 ah ok 2024-01-13 21:26:50 why is that? 2024-01-13 21:27:08 i mean, is it too much hassle to support 32 bits systems at all? 2024-01-13 21:27:45 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Requirements 2024-01-13 21:27:47 3 of these are 32 bits 2024-01-13 21:27:59 i don't speak for the project, but i do know that each additional architecture is a lot of work 2024-01-13 21:28:07 32 or 64 bits isn't the point for that 2024-01-13 21:28:12 yeah, and we need suitable hw to build 2024-01-13 21:28:15 and that 2024-01-13 21:28:23 not even sure you can get a beefy 32 bit ppc build box 2024-01-13 21:28:35 ah okay 2024-01-13 21:28:48 a related question would of course be, how hard is it for a user to add an arch and do their own builds 2024-01-13 21:28:51 there's not a beefy 32 bit ppc, you'd have to qemu it then real-world test on physicals 2024-01-13 21:28:57 tdr, thought so 2024-01-13 21:29:01 Habbie: see loongarch 2024-01-13 21:29:17 ikke, what about it? 2024-01-13 21:29:34 question: is there support for classic uefi booting through grub? 2024-01-13 21:29:44 "classic uefi" as opposed to? 2024-01-13 21:29:58 the machines i have dont support directly booting the kernel as uefi 2024-01-13 21:30:10 i mean booting the kernel directly via uefi 2024-01-13 21:30:17 so by 'classic' you mean 'via grub' 2024-01-13 21:30:17 Habbie: They iirc have a port outside of alpine (but try to make it official) 2024-01-13 21:30:21 ikke, oh right! 2024-01-13 21:30:26 yes with a bootloader 2024-01-13 21:30:29 I'm not sure why they wouldn't support that.. unless it's 32-bit uefi on 64-bit system, or something 2024-01-13 21:30:38 other than that, it should be all the same to the firmware? 2024-01-13 21:30:38 its from 2014 2024-01-13 21:30:56 it should indeed be all the same to the firmware 2024-01-13 21:30:57 and i tried efi shell and it doesnt recognize it as bootable 2024-01-13 21:31:14 how about rEFInd? 2024-01-13 21:31:21 wait, thats odd 2024-01-13 21:31:24 it is odd 2024-01-13 21:31:31 not refind, that its not found to be bootable 2024-01-13 21:31:33 i'm only suggesting refind because it might give better errors 2024-01-13 21:31:43 but efi shell should also give reasonable diagnostics 2024-01-13 21:31:44 is your grub install using booted as an efi stub? 2024-01-13 21:31:47 my laptop from 2011 could do that 2024-01-13 21:31:47 tried with different distro but rufus didnt detect it as uefi and there was no option to boot the storage in uefi 2024-01-13 21:31:54 so I still don't really buy it 2024-01-13 21:32:05 "its from 2014"? not from 2004? 2024-01-13 21:32:06 it could be an odd 32 bit uefi "mixed mode" type thing 2024-01-13 21:32:11 im talking about being unable to boot the kernel as efi directly 2024-01-13 21:32:19 directly from the firmware 2024-01-13 21:32:21 not via grub 2024-01-13 21:32:24 tdr, also the only thing that i can think of 2024-01-13 21:32:40 the system is 64 bits capable 2024-01-13 21:32:40 yeah, either it's the 32bit efi or something *really* wonky 2024-01-13 21:32:44 sure, but grub-install adds an efi stub for grub if you use efi mode install with it, so to the hw, it still botting efi 2024-01-13 21:32:50 was the efi shell built in or did you install it? 2024-01-13 21:32:53 Juest: "its from 2014"? not from 2004? 2024-01-13 21:33:06 2014 shouldnt be a mixed mode uefi problem 2024-01-13 21:33:15 those were earlier and not even very common 2024-01-13 21:33:43 I still see mentions of people trying to make mixed-mode work in 2024-01-13 21:33:56 tdr: yeah that works fine, the problem is booting the new feature in the linux kernel that allows booting straight to it from the uefi firmware 2024-01-13 21:34:01 when it searched for "iboot g4" it says 2004, not 2014 2024-01-13 21:34:13 different computer than that one :) 2024-01-13 21:34:14 grawity, original intel macs or mac mini etc had those, needed 32 bit efi stub (grub etc) to crutch-load a 64 bit kernel 2024-01-13 21:34:46 sorry for the confusion 2024-01-13 21:35:03 ive got a couple of those, theyre not enjoyable when you forget their weirdness 2024-01-13 21:35:06 Juest: I'm lost, you said: hah, would alpine run on a ibook g4 2024-01-13 21:35:14 so which device are you talking about now? 2024-01-13 21:36:31 and by "classic uefi booting" do you mean Apple's (pre-UEFI standard) EFI? 2024-01-13 21:36:48 the context changed when i switched topics by asking something else about booting 2024-01-13 21:37:22 My daily driver efistub boots. x86_64 2024-01-13 21:38:34 heh 2024-01-13 21:40:59 different distro anyways but its something general, its about most machines which arent recent not supporting a direct kernel boot through the efi firmware itself, it should work with efi shell too, i guess the bundled efi shell is too old for that 2024-01-13 21:41:14 thats the context of what i asked 2024-01-13 21:41:29 i had experienced it on a 2015 computer 2024-01-13 21:41:44 the point remains that the machines *don't have to* support anything new 2024-01-13 21:41:57 indeed, an efi binary is an efi binary 2024-01-13 21:42:09 the very idea of this kernel feature is that the kernel pretends to be a completely normal .efi executable of the kind that the firmware already supported before 2024-01-13 21:42:14 it's like saying windows 98 can only run spreadsheets and not games 2024-01-13 21:42:26 so it's more likely something subtle 2024-01-13 21:42:38 how does it fail? 2024-01-13 21:43:04 eh, define "run" because it implies withot leaking memory, win98 may not run at all 2024-01-13 21:47:23 grawity: when i try to boot it it says not found/recognized as executable, and because there's no standard efi folder in the media it doesn't show up on the firmware boot options 2024-01-13 21:47:43 s/options/selector/ 2024-01-13 21:48:08 it doesn't work for me 2024-01-13 21:48:31 Juest: is it a 32bit or 64bit UEFI on the machine? some older Macs had a 32bit EFI 2024-01-13 21:48:48 it's not a mac 2024-01-13 21:48:59 a computer from 2015 2024-01-13 21:49:10 gigabyte nuc 2024-01-13 21:49:23 mini pc 2024-01-13 21:49:33 sihn 2024-01-13 21:49:35 sign 2024-01-13 21:49:43 ok, which Brix box is it? 2024-01-13 21:50:12 minimal: 64 bits uefi 2.x, brix s i3-6100U 2024-01-13 21:50:16 I have a J1900 Brix somewhere here 2024-01-13 21:51:35 out of curiosity 2024-01-13 21:51:41 how are you trying to start it from efi shell? 2024-01-13 21:51:53 and what kind of media are you talking about 2024-01-13 21:51:57 from the built in efi shell entry 2024-01-13 21:52:06 usb pendrive 2024-01-13 21:52:13 how are you trying to start it from efi shell? 2024-01-13 21:52:59 Juest: normal Alpine Sys-mode installation to the USB stick? 2024-01-13 21:53:03 ah just specifying the kernel as file on the shell, a included startup.nsh attempts just that and fails 2024-01-13 21:53:17 it's not even alpine, you missed what i said 2024-01-13 21:53:34 but it's a recent kernel 2024-01-13 21:53:49 right ok, if the commands are from startup.nsh they're probably fine 2024-01-13 21:54:45 it's not booting because it says it's not a valid executable something along those lines, not verbatim but i assume it's what it's trying to say 2024-01-13 21:55:57 Juest: I use startup.sh with kernel EFISTUB (for VMs) but I specify the kernel filename, the initrd, and the cmdline entries 2024-01-13 21:56:16 it doesn't even accept arguments most likely 2024-01-13 21:56:25 or rather i never tried well 2024-01-13 21:56:55 you're using a efistub not directly launching the kernel in the efi shell or firmware 2024-01-13 21:57:04 "linux-lts initrd=initramfs-lts quiet rootfstype=ext4 ..." 2024-01-13 21:57:21 efistub *is* "directly launching the kernel in the efi shell" 2024-01-13 21:57:31 ah okay 2024-01-13 21:57:36 sorry 2024-01-13 21:57:41 yes the kernel *IS* the EFI app/stub 2024-01-13 21:57:46 basically yea it doesn't work 2024-01-13 21:58:13 which kernel version is it? 2024-01-13 21:58:16 i.e. the "stub" is the thing that turns vmlinuz into a valid .efi (which then bootloads itself) 2024-01-13 21:58:18 i should bring a updated efi shell right? 2024-01-13 21:58:50 I'm curious about what happens if you try to start e.g. grubx64.efi this way 2024-01-13 21:58:52 it's not an efi file but attempting to boot the kernel like it was an efi file but without the extension 2024-01-13 21:59:08 grawity: that works as expected 2024-01-13 21:59:09 what do you mean by "it's not an efi file" 2024-01-13 21:59:24 It *is* an EFI file, the EFISTUB is at the start of the kernel file 2024-01-13 21:59:27 the lack of extension? 2024-01-13 21:59:32 yes 2024-01-13 21:59:41 which kernel version are you using? 2024-01-13 22:00:01 current kernel, i don't have the media handy 2024-01-13 22:00:04 to be fair, EFISTUB is a bit wonky, it does the bare minimum to pass as a valid .efi file 2024-01-13 22:00:29 mocaccino desktop live image 2024-01-13 22:02:08 Juest: "current kernel", that doesn't help, the version may be important 2024-01-13 22:02:24 i dont remember! 2024-01-13 22:02:53 again i dont have the test object handy 2024-01-13 22:03:10 ok, I'm asking what I consider a relevant question 2024-01-13 22:04:25 i got dismissed as hardware too old, we're not going to put effort in making it work by implementing a legacy method 2024-01-13 22:04:43 on the right channel that is 2024-01-13 22:05:31 hold on, *you* were the one who asked for the legacy method 2024-01-13 22:05:47 what "legacy method"? and who said that? 2024-01-13 22:05:57 non-efistub grub boot 2024-01-13 22:06:47 yeah it wasn't recognized as bootable in uefi by normal means 2024-01-13 22:09:44 Juest: can you even narrow down the kernel version a bit? 2024-01-13 22:10:06 6.6.x? 6.3.x? 6.1.x? 2024-01-13 22:10:16 5.x? 2024-01-13 22:11:17 https://github.com/mocaccinoOS/mocaccino/releases/tag/v1.3 2024-01-13 22:11:47 6.1 lts 2024-01-13 22:12:16 i'm sorry for stirring such offtopic conversation 2024-01-13 22:12:31 i struggle with filters and i thought someone could help 2024-01-13 22:16:41 minimal: 6.1 LTS 2024-01-13 22:17:55 ok, so I was thinking of a kernel change that happened after 6.1 2024-01-13 22:18:37 EFI Handover support is deprecated in 6.2+ kernels 2024-01-13 22:18:49 Grub *only* supports EFI Handover 2024-01-13 22:19:04 so if the kernel has it disabled then Grub cannot boot 2024-01-13 22:19:39 it boots fine in syslinux 2024-01-13 22:19:41 I *think* need to doublecheck that Grub might have added alternative support in 2.12 which came out just before Xmas 2024-01-13 22:20:05 i dont have grub in that media 2024-01-13 22:20:10 ok, I avoid Syslinux's EFI support so cannot comment on that 2024-01-13 22:20:22 sign, you earlier asked about Grub EFI booting... 2024-01-13 22:20:38 and you said Grub EFI booting didn't work 2024-01-13 22:21:03 buthere's no syslinux efi support as far as im aware, i'm saying that it works in syslinux mbr 2024-01-13 22:21:20 i said efistub booting of the kernel didn't work 2024-01-13 22:21:30 not that grub booting didn't work 2024-01-13 22:21:33 (a) yes there is EFI support in Syslinux and it's not barely functional 2024-01-13 22:21:48 (b) you've been talking about EFI all this time, now you mentioned MBR booting... 2024-01-13 22:22:11 ACTION sighs 2024-01-13 22:22:50 i apologize for being the mess i am when communicating 2024-01-13 22:23:17 question: is there support for classic uefi booting through grub? 2024-01-13 22:23:29 ^^^ there is you mentioning Grub + UEFI 2024-01-13 22:23:56 sorry, I'm outta here before I get a headache 2024-01-13 22:24:36 later minimal 2024-01-13 22:27:17 i afterwards said that i have issues with efistub booting 2024-01-13 22:27:30 i was asking because of that 2024-01-14 07:59:19 anybody know if it's possible to override an init scripts command_user? I tried adding it to the conf.d file, but that didn't change anything 2024-01-14 08:01:15 unless it uses some variable you'll have to modify the init file 2024-01-15 03:36:07 Looks like setup-xorg-base might add the community repo to /etc/apk/repositories . . . even when it's already in there. (noticed on 3.19 x86) 2024-01-15 03:36:24 If anyone gets bored enough to look at it, I'm working on other things ATM \o/ 2024-01-15 08:08:56 Kneel before Xorg. 2024-01-15 10:32:23 Hi there. 2024-01-15 10:33:16 How do you guys get source code in order to make custom apks? for example: https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/tree/community/openconnect?h=3.19-stable how do I most convinient cline files just for t hat package and then modify files in order to build? 2024-01-15 10:33:27 s/cline/clone 2024-01-15 10:33:51 I'm doing it one by one now, but I've already done it twice. And I don't like to repeat myself more then 2 times 2024-01-15 10:34:00 i just git clone the entire aports repo 2024-01-15 10:57:47 I have a little problem with openconnect and using gnutls vs openssl, my corpo VPN is not working agains openconnect and openssl, so I've compiled it with gnutls. problem is that now I'm on v9.10 of openconnect but there is already v9.12 openconnect and when I try to build it agains gnutls I get: gnutls-dtls.c:413:84: error: 'GNUTLS_NO_EXTENSIONS' undeclared (first use in this 2024-01-15 10:57:49 function); did you mean 'GNUTLS_EXT_NONE'? https://termbin.com/ii1x I don't know how to solve that one 2024-01-15 11:34:20 why does your corpo VPN not work with openconnect with openssl? 2024-01-15 11:35:18 re that error, google gave me this: https://www.mail-archive.com/openconnect-devel@lists.infradead.org/msg01736.html 2024-01-15 11:36:05 here is ths fix: https://gitlab.com/openconnect/openconnect/-/commit/7512698217c4104aade7a2df669a20de68f3bb8c 2024-01-15 11:36:25 curl -L https://gitlab.com/openconnect/openconnect/-/commit/7512698217c4104aade7a2df669a20de68f3bb8c.patch > gnutls.patch 2024-01-15 11:36:35 and add that to source in your APKBUILD 2024-01-15 12:52:10 ncopa: not sure why it doesn't but they are clearly not as good with security as I thought they were because they suggest to use anyconnect 2024-01-15 12:52:44 But to be honest, I don't know which ssl is more secure openssl or gnutls 2024-01-15 12:59:02 ncopa: thank you for point to the solution 2024-01-15 13:16:11 I am looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_TLS_implementations and can't find too much of a difference in algorithms between gnutls and openssl 2024-01-15 13:17:18 But the code base of openssl is more then 50% lighter 2024-01-15 16:30:33 Trying to install 3.19 on a x86 machine and running into the 'Mounting boot media failed' issue. USB was created from ISO using the dd method, so iso9660 ro fs, unable to add APPEND alpine_dev directive to syslinux.cfg. Not at the 'https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Create_a_Bootable_Device' page and just can't figure out how to init this process. Is this the way to solve the issue? Any help available? Thanks! 2024-01-15 16:31:14 Guest14202: Can you press Tab when you see the boot: prompt? 2024-01-15 16:31:59 Will try right away 2024-01-15 16:37:33 The window is small but tab works, shows 'lts' and provides a 'boot:' prompt 2024-01-15 16:40:45 after lts you can include alpine_dev=... 2024-01-15 16:41:12 or you could try: lts usbdelay=10 2024-01-15 16:42:20 when you are in the emergency shell, can you verify if it finds the usb device? it should show up in blkid 2024-01-15 16:42:26 or in /proc/partitions 2024-01-15 16:45:14 blkid shows my usb device at /dev/sdb1 2024-01-15 16:45:32 usbdelay=10 doesn't help 2024-01-15 16:46:45 lts alpine_dev=/dev/sdb1:iso9660 isn't working either. is the syntax ok? 2024-01-15 16:51:01 boot: lts alpine_dev=/dev/sdb:iso9660 doesn't make it 2024-01-15 17:02:37 removing the partition type for either the disk or the partition doesn't work. 2024-01-15 17:02:59 Let me know if I should try anything else, thanks 2024-01-15 18:15:55 Guest14202: Do you get any feedback when you try that? 2024-01-15 18:16:02 Or just "Mounting boot media failed" 2024-01-15 18:19:31 I get 'Mounting boot media failed' 2024-01-15 18:20:05 is 'boot: lts alpine_dev=/dev/sdb1:iso9660' the correct syntax? 2024-01-15 18:22:53 It appears alpine_dev is no longer used 2024-01-15 18:23:57 It is defined, but never used 2024-01-15 18:25:16 PXE boot wiki page mentions this, wasn Any alternative to boot from the USB? 2024-01-15 18:26:26 Guest14202: Under most circumstances it should work just out of the box 2024-01-15 18:27:06 syslinux should know where the boot files are as it has run from that device 2024-01-15 18:27:45 what if it doesn't? 2024-01-15 18:27:46 Guest14202: can you try to run it with debug_init 2024-01-15 18:28:22 Sure, how should I do this? 2024-01-15 18:28:24 Guest14202: why would it not know the device it just booted from? 2024-01-15 18:28:36 Guest14202: similar to how you specified alpine_dev 2024-01-15 18:29:15 minimal: i don't know the answer to this, I'm new here and following the instructions the best I can 2024-01-15 18:29:58 Guest14202: what kind of machine are you booting? 2024-01-15 18:37:27 ikke: AMD LX800 2024-01-15 18:38:41 Guest14202: which version of Alpine is this? 3.19? 2024-01-15 18:39:33 I don't believe that meets the minimum CPU requires for 3.19 2024-01-15 18:39:41 s/requires/requirements/ 2024-01-15 18:40:08 686 with CMOV and SSE2 instructions 2024-01-15 18:41:10 ok, it has CMOV but not SSE2 as far as I can tell 2024-01-15 18:45:41 it did output a lot of stuff, is there any way I can capture it? 2024-01-15 18:46:54 Guest14202: I believe your LX800 is *not* supported by Alpine 3.19 as the minimum CPU requirements changed in that release 2024-01-15 18:59:54 Oh well, it seems it did not so long ago. Thanks for the help anyway! 2024-01-15 19:00:43 you could try 3.18 2024-01-15 19:01:33 "not so long ago" - yes, 3.19.0 came out at the start of December 2023 2024-01-16 06:15:57 Hey guys:) 2024-01-16 06:17:18 i Don't know undsterand Coding and commands 2024-01-16 06:17:19 so i can use alpine ? 2024-01-16 06:17:39 Alpline have more Commands but i am windows newbie 2024-01-16 06:17:57 i have little little scare black commands 2024-01-16 06:22:18 totrototrototro[m]: Alpine is very command line orriented, there is no graphical interface by default 2024-01-16 06:24:05 .......... 2024-01-16 06:24:15 Can you hellp me? 2024-01-16 06:24:19 is so very Scare 2024-01-16 06:24:32 only hacker use commands 2024-01-16 06:24:37 i am normal person 2024-01-16 06:24:56 not hacker or blackhat 2024-01-16 06:33:08 totrototrototro[m]: Well, it's simply not true you need to be a hacker or blackhat to use commands 2024-01-16 06:33:24 I sadly do not have time to guide you on how to install Alpine Linux 2024-01-16 06:33:41 ........ i very scare 2024-01-16 06:33:48 more video and peope say commands is hack tools 2024-01-16 06:33:54 ah thanks you 2024-01-16 14:10:29 someone upgraded from 3.11 to latest-stable, that is 3.19, https://geoff.tuxpup.com/posts/upgrading-alpine-too-long/ that is quite a big jump and it's exciting to see that they didn't run into more problems than they did 2024-01-16 14:46:12 "more video and peope say..." <- there's a lot more to the beauty of unix commands than just hacking related stuff. I wonder why you're interested in using alpine. 2024-01-16 14:48:23 "someone upgraded from 3.11 to..." <- Yeah, that's a good experience. It probably helps a lot how Alpine works with its world file, always knowing which packages were actually requested. 2024-01-16 14:48:57 which obviously goes wrong, as here it contained some packages the user didn't remember ever installing - probably from some previous "try installing this to see if it fixes that" session 2024-01-16 14:49:16 but still a way easier cleanup than without such a world file 2024-01-16 14:49:18 * goes wrong sometimes, as 2024-01-16 14:49:34 also I found funny how a big issue was that the author didn't know how to break into syslinux prompt ;) 2024-01-16 14:50:26 (for those who don't know: it's mainly holding shift or alt during boot) 2024-01-16 14:51:13 Or pressing tab when you see boot: 2024-01-16 14:51:45 yeah, there are a few ways 2024-01-16 14:52:16 the alt one is probably the most discoverable one, as you're likely gonna hit that one when not knowing and rebooting, holding ctrl-alt to quickly hit delete in case it starts loading a kernel because you failed 2024-01-16 14:52:27 personally I think him using "latest-stable" as the repo name is a bad idea, just like using ":latest" is a bad idea for Docker images) 2024-01-16 14:52:46 agree with the former, disagree with the latter ;) 2024-01-16 14:53:03 :latest on docker is nice if you don't care / actually WANT to test on latest 2024-01-16 14:53:11 only really makes sense on throwaway containers for test builds or similar 2024-01-16 14:53:23 why disagree about docker :latest? same "problem", you've no idea what "latest" means, especially over time 2024-01-16 14:53:27 And docker should run fine on the lts kernel 2024-01-16 14:53:34 need an extra flag to actually use latest, or else it stays on latest locally cached version 2024-01-16 14:54:36 minimal: As said: temporary VMs for test builds; e.g. for my game I regularly test pre-release on "whatever is current alpine edge", in addition to other systems 2024-01-16 14:55:09 for that purpose, both latest and hardcoded releases make perfect sense, ideally both 2024-01-16 14:55:28 btw, is anybody here daily driving diskless mode while using lbu to persist stuff ? 2024-01-16 14:55:41 well "latest" provides no context, especially when someone is raising bugs/issues 2024-01-16 14:55:58 jbara[m]: it sounds simple on paper but I'm kinda afraid to do it. 2024-01-16 14:56:10 minimal: definitely 2024-01-16 14:56:21 "alpine:latest doesn't work right for me!"...."well it works for me" 2024-01-16 14:56:28 as said, primarily makes sense for testing purposes and only that 2024-01-16 14:56:36 and if a test fails - you need to dig further then 2024-01-16 14:58:02 like, if you want to support a distro X, you could test on X:oldstable + X:latest and hope if both pass, any release in between is fine too (which is usually but not always true) 2024-01-16 14:58:18 s/oldstable/oldstable_hardcoded/ 2024-01-16 14:59:24 approximate, but definitely cheaper than listing every single release in between, and also more accurate than NOT testing on edge (good reasons to want early notification if something is gonna break) 2024-01-16 15:00:15 any if you happened to test X:oldstable JUST AFTER that was incremented to a newer release and tested X:latest JUST BEFORE that was incremented, then oldstable == latest and you'd be testing the same version but thinking you're testing different versions? ;-) 2024-01-16 15:00:25 but definitely one better not run a server or literally ANYTHING persistent on a :latest label 2024-01-16 15:01:23 minimal: Technically still correct :) if that happens, then post-test there's only one supported release (all else is unreleased or EOL), so the tests did cover all releases at the time. Just needlessly ran twice on same code. 2024-01-16 15:01:53 also, I later corrected oldstable to "earliest known working", as it's definitely good to pin that, even if it goes EOL 2024-01-16 15:02:11 i.e. typically "oldstable" (earliest non-EOL) at time of deciding the version 2024-01-16 15:02:32 and then you leave it there and only bump it if it breaks and you are OK with breaking users on that version 2024-01-16 15:03:09 Note that :latest is latest-stable 2024-01-16 15:03:14 For Alpine 2024-01-16 15:03:33 :edge is a separate yeah 2024-01-16 15:03:36 Tag 2024-01-16 15:04:04 good point, yeah - in my case my script does run the tests on :edge 2024-01-16 15:04:35 and also passes --pull=always --rm to be sure to actually test on edge and not "whatever I downloaded a few weeks ago" 2024-01-16 15:09:39 (seems I should try if --pull=newer works well enough too) 2024-01-16 15:21:00 that blog article made no mention of reading Release Notes at all... :-( 2024-01-16 15:25:08 @ncopa, i am trying to build a current linux kernel for the uConsole (https://www.clockworkpi.com/) 2024-01-16 15:25:24 they provide a patch from mid. 2023, for a 5.X kernel 2024-01-16 15:25:48 i was able to port/merge it on 6.1, but a rebase onto 6.6 fails with merge conflicts 2024-01-16 15:26:18 i see that your RPI kernel also has custom patches on it (https://dev.alpinelinux.org/archive/rpi-patches/rpi-$pkgver-alpine.patch) 2024-01-16 15:26:38 how do you maintain (rebase) them as the linux kernel evolves? 2024-01-16 15:26:40 thanks 2024-01-16 15:27:20 i mean, i can manually port the patch, but it is not sustainable. 2024-01-16 15:28:01 i locally clone the rpi kernel, and have rpi-6.6.y checked out 2024-01-16 15:28:27 i have that as a git remote called 'rpi' 2024-01-16 15:28:27 what do you do when RPI moves to 6.7 and your patch does not apply cleanly anymore? 2024-01-16 15:28:54 and then I have a remote named 'origin' with is upstream linux-stable 2024-01-16 15:29:32 then I do something like: git checkout -b rpi-6.6.12-alpine (from latest rpi-6.6.y) 2024-01-16 15:29:42 and: git merge v6.6.12 2024-01-16 15:29:47 and resolve the conficts 2024-01-16 15:30:05 then I do a git diff v6.6.12 for the patch that I upload 2024-01-16 15:30:45 https://tpaste.us/d1x8 2024-01-16 15:31:13 i expect rpi keep 6.6.y for a while, since it is an LTS kernel 2024-01-16 15:31:36 when rpi stop supporting it, i'll just continue merge in v6.6.* as shown above 2024-01-16 15:32:21 thanks. i can resolve the conflicts manually, but it is a lot, and a lot unrelated with the patch at hand. 2024-01-16 15:32:31 apparently i do something wrong with git. 2024-01-16 15:32:56 my expectation is to only see conflicts in files affected by my patch... but no, i see a lot of other changes between 6.1 and 6.6 2024-01-16 15:33:40 they are all trivial, of course, but to edit all files and remove >>> then between ==== and <<<< ... work 2024-01-16 15:34:14 so what i think you want to do, is to get the patches from upstream linux-6.1.y to the clockworkpi kernel 2024-01-16 15:34:21 and apply thoes on top of 6.6 2024-01-16 15:34:28 Use a good merge editor 2024-01-16 15:34:30 i dont think you want go from 6.1 -> 6.6 2024-01-16 15:34:39 thats gonna be a real mess 2024-01-16 15:34:45 yes it is. 2024-01-16 15:35:30 thank you, i'll have to apply the clockworkpi patches (for 5.X) on 6.6, as i did on 6.1, by hand. 2024-01-16 15:35:41 yeah 2024-01-16 15:35:44 well... another afternoon in the linux kernel. thank you so much. 2024-01-16 15:35:54 how many patches are there? 2024-01-16 15:36:11 i mean how many commits? 2024-01-16 15:36:17 not much, about 20 files. it's the display, keyboard, usb and a couple of things. 2024-01-16 15:36:26 no commits, the deliver an old skool patch 2024-01-16 15:38:05 i'd turn it into one or more patches on top of linux-6.1.y (since you already have done that work), and then cherry-pick that to 6.6 2024-01-16 15:38:28 https://github.com/clockworkpi/uConsole/blob/7db6de5d98471c150a644f6e5793372767ada869/Code/patch/cm4/20230630/0001-patch-cm4.patch 2024-01-16 15:38:28 the uConsole looks cute :) 2024-01-16 15:39:12 :) thanks. with very long delivery time. still waiting for a replacement mainboard: i had no chance to test the kernel. 2024-01-16 15:39:23 6.1 compiles, but i know no more. 2024-01-16 15:40:20 now, let's say that i manage to port it to the current kernel, it compiles and it runs properly. how could i submit this to alpine (i use nowadays alpine)? 2024-01-16 15:40:31 linux-uconsole package under testing? 2024-01-16 15:40:43 or merge request for linux-rpi? 2024-01-16 15:40:49 ugh... thats a good question 2024-01-16 15:41:27 short answer: i dont want it, sorry :) 2024-01-16 15:41:55 it's ok. the community is very small, and they'l do for sure with a kernel patch 2024-01-16 15:41:56 longer answer: i dont have resources to maintain another specialized kernel 2024-01-16 15:42:24 but maybe upstream rpi can take it? 2024-01-16 15:42:35 same here, that's why i proposed testing/linux-uconsole. it does not polute the linux-rpi kernel. 2024-01-16 15:42:46 upstream: i could ask. 2024-01-16 15:42:58 i think that would be the cleanest solution 2024-01-16 15:43:16 if linux-rpi accepts it we will get it automatically 2024-01-16 15:43:19 ok, thanks. i have a lot of work to do until then (including getting the hardware running). 2024-01-16 15:43:47 nowadays i tend to redirect all rpi suggestions to upstream rpi 2024-01-16 15:43:58 if they take it, we'll take it. if the dont, we wont. 2024-01-16 15:44:26 that's fair. though i feel they are prone do debianism (moving 10 releases behind the bleeding edge) 2024-01-16 15:44:44 you are well ahead of their head 2024-01-16 15:45:09 they do a decent job keeping the rpi-6.6.y up to date 2024-01-16 15:45:18 they are usually not behind more than a few days 2024-01-16 15:46:05 yes. and still they don't release it as head, if i see it right. their origin/HEAD is 6.1.y, and I suspect that their distro also runs on 6.1 2024-01-16 15:47:31 could be 2024-01-16 15:48:16 cool, thank you so much for the information and the great support. i'll move on to other tasks... 2024-01-16 16:03:58 carlomonte: How's Alpine on the uconsole? I'm waiting for mine to be delivered. 2024-01-16 16:16:22 Geting ip: ioctl 0x8913 failed: No such device found, system intel LGA775 installing UEFI mode from 3.19.0 extended iso from dvd. Please advise 2024-01-16 16:32:34 txnintn: try checking that you're starting the 'hwdrivers' service at boot 2024-01-16 16:33:27 or well, default runlevel should be fine but that's probably your issue 2024-01-16 16:35:19 oh i should read things. you're booting off the iso. in that case you can try restarting networking again and see if it works 2024-01-16 16:35:26 if thats from a bootable iso, it should be doing the needed to get drivers loaded, gla775 isnt rare. is your error post install or when booting the iso? 2024-01-16 16:36:24 It did the same thing with 3.18.5 off and iso usb last night. 2024-01-16 16:36:39 and -> an 2024-01-16 16:37:45 I have rebooted 3 times, same error. 2024-01-16 16:38:17 Post install 2024-01-16 16:38:56 what kind of hardware are you installing onto 2024-01-16 16:39:51 hi, is there a way to report probably missing dependency in a APKBUILD ? 2024-01-16 16:41:05 Intel DG45ID mb Server CPU, 8 gigs ram, onboard video 2024-01-16 16:41:38 it's more about your network interface 2024-01-16 16:41:46 what network device 2024-01-16 16:44:22 txnintn: which CPU does it have? 2024-01-16 16:44:23 Onboard nic is most likely a intel version since its an Intel board, 2024-01-16 16:44:49 also try 'service networking restart' and see if it's able to get a ip 2024-01-16 16:44:51 thats a legacy desktop board, intel branded its likely intel nic and from the age, it could be e1000 or e1000e 2024-01-16 16:44:52 sometimes it will work 2024-01-16 16:45:17 X3360 Xeon 2.83 ghz 2024-01-16 16:46:12 Intel® 82567LF Gigabit (10/100/1000 Mb/s) Ethernet LAN controller 2024-01-16 16:48:15 that should just be igb driver which would be included with normal kernel modules 2024-01-16 16:49:03 my bad, db says e1000e 2024-01-16 16:49:23 still its a normal driver, nothing exotic 2024-01-16 16:50:13 First I tried reboot, then tried rc-service network restart, it never completed, ctrl-c after 3 or 3 minutes. 2024-01-16 16:50:49 txnintn, check lspci -k from when you boot and also scan dmesg for errors 2024-01-16 16:50:55 I did have a second nic it it, I pulled it, same. 2024-01-16 16:51:16 booting now 2024-01-16 16:51:29 3.18.x was 6.1 kernel, 3.19.x is 6.6.x kernel, could be some config difference. Have you tried booting verbosely? 2024-01-16 16:51:56 assuming it doesnt work at boot or get listed as having a "driver in use" from lspci -k .. try modprobe e1000e and recheck 2024-01-16 16:54:28 only diffence, I can tell on the installs, it's occuring when i write the iso to dvd or usb 2024-01-16 16:55:13 3.19.0 was extended 3.18.5 was standard 2024-01-16 16:55:50 "it's occuring when i write the iso to dvd or usb" - what do you mean by this? 2024-01-16 16:59:49 I will sudo to gnome-disks and attach disk image to the usb, or with the dvd I will use brasero to write the dvd. 2024-01-16 17:02:00 If I want just files I will just use archive manager to extract the files to a folder or copy to a blank usb drive. this works without the error. 2024-01-16 17:05:23 This is my dev box, but I have an I have a nas that went down, i suspect a bad cable on the backplane. I need to recover the mdadm raid. 2024-01-16 17:07:13 I was running 3.18.5 with a desktop environment before I wiped it. 2024-01-16 17:08:21 tdr: i've seen running networking in the boot runlevel is a problem causing udhcpc to fail, when people do that, instead of having networking in default 2024-01-16 17:08:30 not sure what the iso does offhand 2024-01-16 17:10:06 invoked: from memory the ISO does nothing with networking until you run setup-alpine and specify a network device etc 2024-01-16 17:10:28 Weird, this was like the 4th or 5th reboot came up with no error. 2024-01-16 17:11:00 minimal: oh i thought maybe the extended iso tries to set up networking by default, my b 2024-01-16 17:11:14 Nic there but down. just a sec 2024-01-16 17:12:57 Even stranger, no interfaces file 2024-01-16 17:14:52 you are booting Alpine Standard/Extended? there will not be an interfaces file until you setup networking 2024-01-16 17:17:08 Extended sets up networking in setup-alpine, remember the error occurs post intall. 2024-01-16 17:18:12 you installed in Sys-mode? 2024-01-16 17:18:19 yes 2024-01-16 17:18:47 and problem is after reboot? (and so when the installed OS is booted) 2024-01-16 17:18:54 if udhcpc is giving you errors you probably have an interfaces file 2024-01-16 17:19:47 yes minimal 2024-01-16 17:20:04 and you are *sure* /etc/network/interfaces does not exist? 2024-01-16 17:23:21 wrote an interfaces file and ran rc-service networking restart, got IP and can get to aprepos. Wierd..here, want me to repeat it for y'all? 2024-01-16 17:24:15 I got 6 inch of snow on the ground, not going anywhere for a couple of days. 2024-01-16 17:24:39 that is weird because if you didn't have an interfaces file i don't know why udhcpc would start. 2024-01-16 17:26:01 anyway, glad it's working 2024-01-16 17:26:24 you might want to check what runlevel you have networking at, also (rc-update -a) 2024-01-16 17:26:25 invoked true, running things too early without the supporting services being there is bad. 2024-01-16 17:26:39 I'll reboot and see if it does it again. 2024-01-16 17:26:54 if you have networking at boot level, i'd suggest moving it to default (add it to default, then remove it from boot) 2024-01-16 17:29:29 i'm not sure i've ever used the extended iso. 2024-01-16 17:29:38 pardon my ignorance about that 2024-01-16 17:30:09 hwdrivers sysinit, I had to run rc-update add networking boot 2024-01-16 17:31:01 that could work, but i'd still put networking in default just to avoid any intermittent races 2024-01-16 17:31:08 but that's me 2024-01-16 17:31:17 Not a big deal to rerun the install and get you more info 2024-01-16 17:33:46 I've been on a big learning curve with alpine on several platforms. 2024-01-16 17:36:48 if you're coming from the usual linux environment (not busybox) it can be disorienting. 2024-01-16 17:38:24 I ran alot of linux in desktop, a few utility type distros in profession, but I had a linux guy that did the hard lifting. 2024-01-16 17:40:39 yes alpine is a different animal, 2024-01-16 17:40:50 Uefi booting to cd 2024-01-16 17:41:04 err dvd 2024-01-16 17:44:51 setup-alpine, at interfaces, loaded udchpc started, v1.36.1 aquired ip address, aquired lease. 2024-01-16 17:45:33 WhyNotHugo: it runs, but i was only able to connect to it per SSH. i am sure that the battery connection was dead (only the mains power supply worked). 2024-01-16 17:46:10 the screen and keyboard don't work either, but i can't tell if it is the kernel or the mainboard. i'll get a replacement one soon and i'll be able to tell. 2024-01-16 17:46:13 added mirror 2024-01-16 17:46:55 the installation was pretty trivial: put the CM4 on an extension board, install alpine as normal, then uninstall the kernel and replace with the kernel+modules i compiled myself. 2024-01-16 17:46:58 chosing sda, sys install. 2024-01-16 17:47:00 all working, no problem. 2024-01-16 17:48:39 Installing for x86_64-efi platform, installation finished. No error reported, 85% 2024-01-16 17:49:05 WhyNotHugo: if you are OK with an old kernel, and to make sure that it's not your fault if something is not working, you can use their patch. from GitHub for 5.X. it also runs without problems (in my case only SSH) 2024-01-16 17:51:03 Rebooting 2024-01-16 17:51:35 txnintn: mind you, EFI installs grub, not the elegant syslinux. there is a wiki page that instructs you to copy /usr/share/syslinux//efi64/* to your efi partition. apart from this, you only need the kernel (vmli*), the initial disk (initramfs) and the configuration file 2024-01-16 17:51:44 the rest of the boot partition may go per apk del 2024-01-16 17:52:18 invoked, i just setup a vm using exended iso and what i could to get close to cpu/nic type. i had zero issues at boot, e1000e loaded (i set network to dhcp, nothing special) 2024-01-16 17:52:38 sure. 2024-01-16 17:53:53 a quick look at setup-{alpine,interfaces,etc} shows me that networking (as well as wpa-supplicant and iwd and probably everything else like that) gets put into boot runlevel by default 2024-01-16 17:54:50 they were used wired so only very basic would be needed, not even wpa. i just did a very basic install using net-setup checking if the installed on extended iso maybe did something janky. i detect no jank. 2024-01-16 17:55:03 i've just seen people have these udhcpc ioctl errors and that seems to be a race 2024-01-16 17:55:13 so if you move networking into default, it stops happening 2024-01-16 17:55:42 after *loading harware drivers .. next line sort: /sys devices.pci0000:00/000:00:1a.1/usb4/4-2:1.0/000c:46D:C52B.0003/ 2024-01-16 17:55:50 ah i see, networking is in "boot" rulevel 2024-01-16 17:56:11 new line s: No Such File or directory 2024-01-16 17:56:13 makes sense why moving it to default would work then, get it done later 2024-01-16 17:56:34 new line * loading modules 2024-01-16 17:57:12 i'm kind of old school (or maybe just plain old) and don't use the setup-* stuff 2024-01-16 17:57:41 but udhcpc: started, broadcast Discover, 2024-01-16 17:58:11 got ip and lease. 2024-01-16 17:58:54 the only other racey thing i could see maybe going on would be fixable via rc_hotplug="!net.*" being in rc.conf 2024-01-16 17:59:14 prevent any "nice helpers" from yanking in net before its really ready 2024-01-16 17:59:27 yeah 2024-01-16 17:59:44 invoked: I don't know why setup-alpine puts networking in "boot" runlevel rather than "default" 2024-01-16 17:59:45 fixes some openrc folks on gentoo who get into similar things 2024-01-16 18:00:18 minimal: yeah, no good reason for it to be there 2024-01-16 18:00:21 imo 2024-01-16 18:00:32 invoked -> same here just doing a quick and dirty. 2024-01-16 18:04:01 invoked: then again I also don't see why "cron" or "acpid" are put in "boot" runlevel either, especially as "acpid" has a 'need localmount' and 'after hwdrivers modules' 2024-01-16 18:04:43 i'm assuming there was a reason, i just don't know and can't imagine what it could be 2024-01-16 18:05:19 maybe some cloud bullshit. 2024-01-16 18:05:25 eh? 2024-01-16 18:06:11 like maybe it's that way because of cloud-init, et al 2024-01-16 18:06:19 i don't know. 2024-01-16 18:06:40 I can say a definitive *NO*, speaking as the Alpine cloud-init dev/maintainer 2024-01-16 18:06:51 that's why i mentioned it, because you would know :) 2024-01-16 18:08:00 the "cron" is strange as /etc/init.d/crond does NOT "provide cron" and there is no /etc/init.d/cron 2024-01-16 18:08:02 going to run it again. it had a different result, first time I had two nic in the system, on the reboot I pulled the DVD usb too quick and it hung and I had to power down. 2024-01-16 18:11:38 invoked: ah, ignore that, was looking at a historical git commit lol 2024-01-16 18:12:21 anyway, I'll open a MR about moving networking from boot -> default 2024-01-16 18:12:44 cool 2024-01-16 18:13:32 same, installing 2nd nic, realtec chipset 2024-01-16 18:13:53 glad this wasn't just ephemeral discussion. i should probably get better about reporting stuff. just too much "life" going on 2024-01-16 18:24:22 lunch time see you guys later. 2024-01-16 18:35:01 i have apk-tools installed on nixos and i am getting: 2024-01-16 18:35:03 $ sudo apk update 2024-01-16 18:35:05 ERROR: Unable to lock database: No such file or directory 2024-01-16 18:35:07 ERROR: Failed to open apk database: No such file or directory 2024-01-16 18:35:21 Do you have any context to what it's trying to do? 2024-01-16 18:36:39 KREYREN_oftc: it's trying to open /lib/apk/db/lock 2024-01-16 18:36:56 any special permissions? 2024-01-16 18:38:08 uopenat(3, "lib/apk/db/lock", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_LARGEFILE|O_CLOEXEC, 0600) = 4 2024-01-16 18:38:14 -u 2024-01-16 18:38:25 mkdir -p /lib/apk/db seemes to fixed it 2024-01-16 18:39:01 thanks <3 2024-01-16 18:39:15 flock(4, LOCK_EX|LOCK_NB) 2024-01-16 18:41:04 o.o 2024-01-16 18:44:45 I think i replicated the directory structure and i get further now: https://dpaste.org/m1Qg5/raw 2024-01-16 18:44:55 ACTION is trying to set up an environment to test alpine packages 2024-01-16 18:45:23 ACTION was working on upstreaming OLIMEX Teres-I in PostmarketOS and wants to submit some contribs to alpine  2024-01-16 18:47:09 hmm i am getting untrusted signatures that's probably the issue 2024-01-16 18:47:19 abuild-apk is a suid program that executes apk 2024-01-16 18:51:28 fixed the keys and it works now 2024-01-16 18:51:51 oh actually 2024-01-16 18:51:51 hmm 2024-01-16 18:53:13 https://dpaste.org/Nih83/raw ye i am not sure how to get it to work from non-root atm 2024-01-16 18:53:46 ikke, does that have some doas config or something like that to run or something? 2024-01-16 18:54:03 no 2024-01-16 18:54:37 then eh? O.o it works from docker 2024-01-16 18:54:47 It runs itself as suid, but that's apparently not allowed 2024-01-16 18:54:55 "setuid(0) failed: Operation not permitted" 2024-01-16 18:55:02 oh right bcs nixos probably 2024-01-16 19:00:20 ye nix won't allow to run it this way bcs of hardening it can be adjusted, but that's pain to do so i will just do docker for now i g 2024-01-16 19:10:50 ikke, thanks for help btw <3 2024-01-16 19:10:55 no problem 2024-01-16 19:32:48 "there's a lot more to the beauty..." <- Have freinds tell me alpine system only use 192MB Ram system 2024-01-16 19:33:18 and Very seucirty + Lite + Fast 2024-01-16 19:38:34 Hi! this is my first time trying alpine linux and im having issue installing it on my pi zero w :/ I've been following the official documentation but nothing seems to be working. ive installed the https://github.com/macmpi/alpine-linux-headless-bootstrap tar.gz overlay file but still no ssh port opening, nor connection to my local network. 2024-01-16 19:39:20 i, sadly, cannot debug what's happening on the pi since i do not have serial usb, nor a minihdmi. that's why i went with the headless mode. 2024-01-16 19:39:27 any idea ? :) 2024-01-16 20:13:24 maybe it's because im trying to use the wpa_supplicant headless connection but my zerow do not have a working wifi ? 2024-01-16 20:13:46 i tried to make the usb gagdet working too, but couldn't... 2024-01-16 20:14:23 anyboby has any idea ? I would love to avoid rip os if possible 2024-01-16 20:24:48 "anyboby has any idea ? I would..." <- Bro 2024-01-16 20:24:55 to #debian IRC 2024-01-16 20:25:02 alpine no people care u 2024-01-16 20:25:13 becuase they is AI Not-human 2024-01-16 20:25:41 #debian is really 30y+ linux user group 2024-01-16 20:25:49 alpine so new 2024-01-16 20:25:57 they maybe can't help u 2024-01-16 20:31:47 I do not believe that https://github.com/macmpi/alpine-linux-headless-bootstrap is an official Alpine repo. You may have better luck opening an issue on Github for it 2024-01-16 20:36:25 kwadroke: it was the repo mentionned and advised in the official alpine documentation. 2024-01-16 20:36:37 I thought it was a good bet :shrug: 2024-01-16 20:37:03 just curious where did you find it in the documentation? 2024-01-16 20:37:42 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi#Preparation 2024-01-16 20:37:57 > To setup a headless system, a bootstrapping configuration overlay file headless.apkovl.tar.gz may be added to enable basic networking 2024-01-16 20:38:15 where headless.* is a hyperlink to the gh repo 2024-01-16 20:46:23 fwiw ... the wiki is a form of documentation but since anyone can edit there anytime, take it with a grain of salt 2024-01-16 20:47:01 docs.alpinelinux.org has a user handbook that is official but it doesn't cover everything. 2024-01-16 21:09:01 invoked: oh okay, thanks ! 2024-01-16 21:10:31 your best best would be to get a mini-hdmi to hdmi cable/adapter so you can see what is going on during boot 2024-01-16 21:11:51 kind of hard to troubleshoot something like this without seeing it 2024-01-16 21:12:09 "and Very seucirty + Lite + Fast" <- cool , if you want to get started you can check the wiki, it's not gonna be easy thought 2024-01-16 21:12:14 get started here :3 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Installation 2024-01-16 21:13:11 ... 2024-01-16 21:13:13 I believe no one saw my question earlier .. but I'm very interested in diskless mode. And I'm really curious if there's anyone who's using it as a daily driver. 2024-01-16 21:20:12 "cool , if you want to get..." <- ty bro 2024-01-16 21:53:15 currently reading https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/blob/master/COMMITSTYLE.md 2024-01-16 21:53:15 specifically talking about community/synapse 2024-01-16 21:53:15 how should i format the commit message if it's both a version upgrade and keeping up with a change in upstream ownership? if those were done in separate commits the first one would be non-functional, as the old repository wouldn't have the new version, and the new one wouldn't have the old version 2024-01-16 21:54:02 it also involves a licensing change to AGPL, more info at https://element.io/blog/synapse-now-lives-at-github-com-element-hq-synapse/ 2024-01-16 21:54:46 I have seen all kind of changes being included in an upgrade commit. Don't worry 2024-01-16 21:55:08 so 'community/synapse: upgrade to ' should be fine 2024-01-16 21:55:33 ahh alright, thank you 2024-01-16 21:56:38 yeah, it's fine to combine those changes 2024-01-16 21:57:24 though, changing the license would maybe warant an explicit commit 2024-01-16 22:00:50 is that an explicit request? 2024-01-16 22:00:57 or are you unsure 2024-01-16 22:01:41 If you look at the history of the commits for a package, seeing an explicit commit for the license change could be helpful 2024-01-16 22:02:10 i will do that then 2024-01-17 06:56:58 I'm using arp-scan on my lan, and it causes a flood of dns requests. all adresses starting with 10.x.x.x, all computers used and scanned are within the lan but the scan triggers a flood of requests to the google dns, 8.8.8.8, one request for each host scanned (235 hosts a sec). is there something i have likely done wrong? i don't want to cause a mess for someone. 2024-01-17 06:57:45 hmm, my nick is wrong 2024-01-17 07:29:38 test 2024-01-17 07:30:15 Strange, nick changed again, looks like i'm disconnecting alot this morning 2024-01-17 08:27:45 Was the -d (--resolve) option given? 2024-01-17 08:51:42 Hi :) 2024-01-17 08:51:42 I have been playing around with alpine 3.19 and its been a learning experience haha 2024-01-17 08:52:36 I hit a wall with colord though. Does anyone know why there is no init.d openrc run script for it? 2024-01-17 08:53:56 I'm the maintainer, and the reason is that I just needed it to satisfy a dependency 2024-01-17 08:57:27 Ah gotcha! Im coming from void linux so i just did my best to copy the void repo template and convert it into an openrc run script. I think i should be good tho. I just wanted to make sure that there wasnt an earth shattering reason for why there is no /etc/init.d/colord. Thank you for verifying the world isnt going to explode if i add it to the default run level 2024-01-17 09:00:15 Also maybe im just bad at searching the web but there is surprisingly little info on colord service for openrc. I read the alpine wiki page for writing custom init.d scripts and it mentioned checking out gentoo repos. That was a very long detour that really didnt pan out to anything fruitful. 2024-01-17 09:03:11 When I need to write one, I just look at the existing ones and the openrc-run manpage. \o/ 2024-01-17 09:04:58 amumimium: in most cases, the init.d scripts can be quite simple and just need to provide some metadata 2024-01-17 09:05:35 The manpage is exactly where i started and ended up. I should have searched github, gitlab etc. but its 3am and my brain no worky. 2024-01-17 09:05:41 https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/blob/master/service-script-guide.md 2024-01-17 09:05:48 This is a good guide 2024-01-17 09:08:40 Yes! I think this was mentioned on the wiki page as well. Should have paid more attention. And i wouldnt mind sharing the script here but im on an android client and it seems to send a new message after every newline. 2024-01-17 09:09:13 It does. You'd use some paste service 2024-01-17 09:12:56 https://hastebin.skyra.pw/habegefiha.powershell 2024-01-17 09:13:22 Dont know why it detected as powershell but here you are 2024-01-17 09:14:19 Is there a reason to define the start and stop functions? Most of the time, the default suffices ( something that guide points out as well) 2024-01-17 09:15:11 adhd 2024-01-17 09:15:48 Good point 2024-01-17 09:16:13 I need to be able to manually write down something before i can fully understand it lol otherwise my brain keeps getting distracted 2024-01-17 10:53:44 Asking here again, this time with a little more context (i think :shrug:) https://www.reddit.com/r/AlpineLinux/comments/198tvjt/headless_raspberry_pi_zero_w_wont_connect_to_wifi/ 2024-01-17 10:56:25 markdown only link, for those that despise reddit: https://txt.t0.vc/QQMB 2024-01-17 11:19:45 nasmekva: so you're using the overlay file provided by macmpi? 2024-01-17 11:20:03 It's hard to know what's going on without some feedback 2024-01-17 11:20:27 ikke: i think i am, the file is in the boot partition 2024-01-17 11:21:12 yeah, i figured, i do not have much more feedback to give, just tought there might be an enormous mistake that i missed 2024-01-17 11:22:11 Did you unpack the ovl, updated wpa_supplicant.conf and packed it again? 2024-01-17 11:22:18 (you mentioned something, but not in so many words) 2024-01-17 11:22:55 nope i did not, the gh repo specified that the wpa_supplicant.conf file should be _alongside_ the ovl file 2024-01-17 11:23:12 oh right 2024-01-17 11:23:32 maybe i should :shrug:, won't hurt to try :) 2024-01-17 12:00:07 When I package a font should I prefer unhinted or hinted? 2024-01-17 14:13:25 sertonix: unhinted, if I'm not mistaken 2024-01-17 14:32:43 ayushnix: thx 2024-01-17 14:34:37 np 2024-01-17 14:46:17 zcrayfish, about arp-scan, no the -d (--resolve) was not set but it still triggered a flood of dns lookups 2024-01-17 15:21:04 dmesg indicates an error loading firmware: https://paste.sr.ht/blob/b8b6873ea2a8ce5e503be8e6399f90daf48578cd 2024-01-17 15:21:14 But I have the right firmware installed: https://paste.sr.ht/blob/7a41223f9680fdbf3911bbbf89ec6b8c4219151b 2024-01-17 15:21:23 It worked a month ago too. Any hints? 2024-01-17 15:29:29 i vaguely remember having a dumb issue loading a firmware not too long ago but that was for networking 2024-01-17 15:31:16 Odd, apk fix sof-firmware fails with ERROR: Failed to create lib/firmware/intel/sof-tplg/sof-acp.tplg: No such file or directory 2024-01-17 15:31:22 It fails for every single file: https://paste.sr.ht/~whynothugo/d593eac0a6423c4191e0f84ec5c4e9809c7d4ce7 2024-01-17 15:31:30 I got a really dumb question 2024-01-17 15:31:37 is there a way to by default get all manpages for stuff you install? 2024-01-17 15:31:46 I know one can explicitly install foo-doc for every foo, basically 2024-01-17 15:32:28 divVerent: apk add docs 2024-01-17 15:34:27 divVerent: it is worth reading the FAQ https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux:FAQ 2024-01-17 15:34:40 Out of curiosity, how does that even work... I see it is a metapackage including doc-provider and man-pages 2024-01-17 15:34:57 but I can't even find doc-provider 2024-01-17 15:35:09 is that some kind of "virtual" package that contains "all -doc for packages installed"? 2024-01-17 15:38:09 if you look at the APKBUILDs for mandoc and man-db you'll see a provides="doc-provider" with differing priorities 2024-01-17 15:39:22 AH, it works via provides= 2024-01-17 15:39:50 I was wondering why I can't find doc-provider on the https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages?name=doc-provider&branch=edge&repo=&arch=x86_64&maintainer= 2024-01-17 15:40:18 what other interesting provides= are there? 2024-01-17 15:40:43 provides="no value at all" ? ;-) 2024-01-17 15:41:34 searching for package deps doesn't show "reverse dependencies" BTW (i.e. "install_if") 2024-01-17 15:42:35 that's how *-openrc subpackages are autoinstalled 2024-01-17 15:42:55 e.g. abc-openrc defines install_if="openrc abc" 2024-01-17 15:43:46 so if you install an alternative to openrc then the *-openrc packages will not be autoinstalled 2024-01-17 15:51:02 I still don't quite see how doc-provider works - I see less has a subpackage less-doc 2024-01-17 15:51:11 where is the implementation that less-doc implements doc-provider? 2024-01-17 15:51:49 also, does installing docs only install doc packages for stuff currently installed, or ALL doc packages? 2024-01-17 15:52:26 divVerent: it's not through that provider, but through install_if 2024-01-17 15:52:26 who said less-doc implements doc-provider? it doesn't, less-doc is package containing doc files for less 2024-01-17 15:53:03 basically, I would like to see where that logic is implemented 2024-01-17 15:53:04 https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/abuild/-/blob/master/abuild.in#L1955 2024-01-17 15:53:26 ah, that's how it works 2024-01-17 15:54:38 what does doc-provider do then? 2024-01-17 15:54:40 I mentioned earlier how "install_if" works in general, the "doc" situation is just a form of that 2024-01-17 15:54:59 oh, that seems to just be there to select man-db? 2024-01-17 15:55:30 no, to select "docs" which may be fulfilled by either mandoc or man-db 2024-01-17 15:55:49 I see, install_if is basically a reverse dependency that can do AND 2024-01-17 15:55:52 as they both fulfill doc-provider 2024-01-17 15:56:20 that's why I described install_if earlier as "reverse dependencies" 2024-01-17 15:56:35 yeah, now I understand how it actually works 2024-01-17 15:56:51 reverse dependencies but with AND, i.e. "install X if both A and B are installed" 2024-01-17 15:57:03 similarily mkinitfs, booster, and dracut all fulfill initramfs-generator requirement 2024-01-17 15:57:57 now grepping for more such funny cases :) 2024-01-17 15:58:07 seems provides= is at most used 5 times for the same identifier (lua) 2024-01-17 15:58:32 so today all *-openrc packages have install_if="openrc XYZ" and if/when s6 is officially supported then *-s6 packages would have install_if="s6 XYZ" 2024-01-17 15:59:09 so *-openrc subpackage would only be installed on systems with openrc, and equivalent re *-s6 subpackages 2024-01-17 16:03:39 Looking through source, "lang" is another such package 2024-01-17 16:03:52 (and lang-de etc. I guess) 2024-01-17 16:04:06 and the firmware packaging 2024-01-17 16:04:18 devhelp too 2024-01-17 16:04:36 completion stuff works similar too 2024-01-17 16:04:37 by default you get all firmware subpackages but you can install the "none" subpackage to avoid this 2024-01-17 16:07:27 ah, I see 2024-01-17 16:07:42 I just installed the subpackages my system uses manually, but yeah, that's how "all firmware" works 2024-01-17 16:08:18 https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/abuild/-/blob/master/abuild.in?ref_type=heads#L980 2024-01-17 16:08:25 This hints to packages like lang-de but I can't find any 2024-01-17 16:10:52 Seems like this is for future expansion, and right now one can only install all languages or none? 2024-01-17 16:59:40 Greetings programs 2024-01-17 17:05:37 I have installed Alpine onto a WatchGuard XTM5 box for the purposes of converting it into a DVR for CCTV cameras etc and so far it's working great. I'm having issues trying to get the LCD screen to work with LCDproc. Don't suppose anyone has ever tried/succeeded at this, or would be able to point me in the right direction? I've found numerous guides surrounding OpenWRT, PfSense and OPNsense etc, but they've not been ideal, being BSD for the most 2024-01-17 17:06:42 The only lead I've managed to find, is a reference to the WatchGuard LCD driver being 32bit and not working with 64bit LCDproc!? 2024-01-17 17:27:00 Is PHP packaged for Alpine? (I did check but I failed to find it. So I wonder if I might be doing something wrong.) 2024-01-17 17:29:02 superherointj: it is, but it's versioned 2024-01-17 17:29:15 https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages?name=php82&branch=edge&repo=&arch=&maintainer= 2024-01-17 17:29:27 (and in community, in case you only have main enabled) 2024-01-17 17:29:43 Thanks! 2024-01-17 17:31:27 all versions: https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages?name=php%3F%3F&branch=edge&repo=&arch=x86_64&maintainer= 2024-01-17 18:44:01 Is there a reason that gcc-cross-embedded doesn't have a riscv64 target? Is it as simple as adding 'riscv64-none-elf' to the array of supported target? 2024-01-17 18:46:39 And it's not https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/package/edge/community/x86_64/gcc-riscv-none-elf? 2024-01-17 18:51:22 Yeah, that's 32-bit only (it's also a subpackage of gcc-cross-embedded). 2024-01-17 18:51:43 Was aware of the latter, but not the former 2024-01-17 18:51:52 hadn't heard about 32-bits riscv yet 2024-01-17 18:54:49 I see in the APKBUILD some rv64 ISAs mentioned 2024-01-17 18:58:14 xordspar0: it sounds to me that it supports both 2024-01-17 18:58:25 riscv-none-elf) _target_specific_flags="--with-multilib-generator=$_riscv_multilib" ;; 2024-01-17 19:01:15 That package only ships with one gcc, and when I used it it was 32-bit. Is it possible for one build of gcc to target multiple arches? I wonder if there's a gcc flag to choose the target. 2024-01-17 19:01:57 -m 2024-01-17 19:02:03 I believe 2024-01-17 19:05:20 xordspar0: try --target-help 2024-01-17 19:09:08 xordspar0: there is -march, but I don't see what you can provide there 2024-01-17 19:10:06 ikke: Thanks! When I type something in for -march it gives some hints about what I can put there. 2024-01-17 19:10:12 right 2024-01-17 19:10:48 r64im is given as an example 2024-01-17 19:13:04 rv64im* 2024-01-17 19:13:29 xordspar0: https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/gcc-command-options/machine-dependent-options/risc-v-options.html 2024-01-17 19:14:50 Is Alpine-Linux usable without curl/shh ? 2024-01-17 19:15:13 Sure 2024-01-17 19:15:29 But depends on your definition of usable 2024-01-17 19:15:34 depends on what you plan to do with it 2024-01-17 19:16:00 everything but remote control :) 2024-01-17 19:16:21 I don't know yet, but prefer systems without curl/ssh 2024-01-17 19:17:14 in some distro's ssh-libs are required by many more or less "primairy" programs 2024-01-17 19:17:59 what about "wget"? ;-) 2024-01-17 19:18:14 I prefer/use that instead 2024-01-17 19:18:23 https://tpaste.us/MRK9 2024-01-17 19:18:31 those packages depend on libssh 2024-01-17 19:19:27 you mean that this are the only programs in the Alpine repo that requires libssh ? 2024-01-17 19:19:28 I don't see the connection between "curl" and "ssh", they're for 2 different purposes 2024-01-17 19:20:03 e3: as far as I can see, yes 2024-01-17 19:20:18 libcurl is used by more packages though: https://tpaste.us/EJdD 2024-01-17 19:20:24 more Alpine packages depends on libssh2 than on libssh... 2024-01-17 19:20:29 minimal: curl has libssh2-1 as dependency in Debian distro's 2024-01-17 19:20:52 e3: libssh2 is not libssh, it's a different package 2024-01-17 19:22:11 minimal: you mean it has nothing to do with ssh ? 2024-01-17 19:22:26 no, I mmean it is a different software package 2024-01-17 19:22:31 libssh.org vs libssh2.org 2024-01-17 19:23:56 different names for ssh libs are not relevant for my question, only is Alpine primairy programs, e.g. package manager, require ssh. 2024-01-17 19:24:09 is = if 2024-01-17 19:24:41 e3: do you mean ssh or ssl? 2024-01-17 19:24:48 ssh 2024-01-17 19:24:58 it is not different names, libssh and libssh2 are 2 DIFFERENT libraries that implement SSH protocol 2024-01-17 19:26:26 okay, correction; different libs, but still totally not relevant. Please don't waste my time with irrelevant sidesteps 2024-01-17 19:26:38 e3: there is nothing in the base that requires libssh 2024-01-17 19:26:59 The alpine docker image does not have libssh installed 2024-01-17 19:27:01 e3: It was not immediately apparent to us that the distinction was irrelevant to you. 2024-01-17 19:27:05 irrelevant? you asked about curl and SSH 2024-01-17 19:27:09 ikke: I thank you much 2024-01-17 19:27:36 curl can be built with either libssh or libssh2 2024-01-17 19:29:33 I thought I made it clear that I want it without ssh in general and I'am sorry if I confused you with my bad English. Luckily ikke did understand it very well 2024-01-17 19:31:23 and also thank you for trying to help :) 2024-01-17 19:42:18 I'm a distrohopper that mostly lives in emacs, terminal and Debian derivates, although I'm not a fan of GNU or Debian. I'll try Alpine again, after >6 years, and really hope that it is mature enough for daily usage. 2024-01-17 19:47:28 it's probably best to think about what alpine will do differently and whether those differences are important for your daily usage. 2024-01-17 19:48:45 the packages themselves will work, in most cases, exactly the same 2024-01-17 19:50:10 for me are important: non systemd or simular dictators, no remote control, no amazon/apple/other nasty commercial stuff, and of course the possibility to control my own PC totally 2024-01-17 19:50:59 ikke: Thanks again for your help with gcc-cross-embedded and riscv64. I just got my project to compile. 2024-01-17 19:51:06 xordspar0: nice 2024-01-17 19:53:04 That saves me from having to build gcc on my little Raspberry Pi! 2024-01-17 19:58:45 That would probably take ages 2024-01-17 21:55:57 is there anything i should know for trying out flatpak on alpine? 2024-01-17 21:56:16 the flatpak website has some obviously wrong no-op instruction to reboot after intalling the apk O_o 2024-01-17 22:08:57 *sigh* the bogus "reboot" step is on the alpine wiki too 2024-01-17 22:17:20 i think at the very least dbus needs to be restarted, but it's probably easier to just tell people to reboot, so that's what they do 2024-01-17 22:17:43 maybe some apps work without restarting dbus, i don't know. 2024-01-17 22:20:20 i don't see how the system dbus could be involed at all. maybe the user session one? that would be "log out" not "reboot" 2024-01-17 22:20:45 but i'm skeptical even that is needed 2024-01-17 22:20:49 sounds more like cargo culting 2024-01-17 22:25:03 dalias, think "the system" gets rules, user session of dbus wouldnt matter if the system itself hasnt parsed etc what it needs 2024-01-17 22:39:12 You need extra steps if you want to use the system flatpak anyway. 2024-01-17 22:39:44 ACTION notices that the systemd-specific /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/flatpak.conf should not be installed. 2024-01-18 03:27:44 dalias: You're mostly right about the flapak stuff. Rebooting is not strictly needed. Neither is logging out + logging back in... However the user will not get their precious icons for their flatpak apps into they log out and back in. Flatpak literally tells you this. 2024-01-18 04:55:40 what is the status of the riscv64 port? 2024-01-18 05:15:35 zv: for now still only edge. We did recently receive some hardware. If that's up for the par and we can build packages with tests enabled, we could start making stable releases 2024-01-18 05:18:18 which hardware? 2024-01-18 05:21:36 Milkv pioneer 2024-01-18 05:22:42 ok. i can confirm that is a decent box.. 2024-01-18 05:43:01 Ohhh 2024-01-18 10:48:44 slobasim 2024-01-18 11:01:16 disgusting 2024-01-18 13:41:09 WTF the Alpine website invited me to come to the party but when I arrived in my best clothes the didn't allow me in, because I don't know the password ! What is this for a crazy shit ? 2024-01-18 13:43:01 what url would that be? as far as i know there are no pass 2024-01-18 13:43:40 The standard live version don't let me in without password ! 2024-01-18 13:44:12 I found the password via Google, on another site so I wonder what kind of party this is 2024-01-18 13:52:45 grepping the documentation shows that the section about "Automatic installation" mention the password, but not the section "semi-automatic installation". 2024-01-18 14:45:28 hello , intellij seems to be trying to use setsid with the -w flag (not supported on busybox) and therefore, some sync process can't be done (using the git command in wsl) I was wondering what could be done in this case ? 2024-01-18 14:48:23 jbara[m]: Check of the setsid from util-linux-misc will work for you. 2024-01-18 14:48:42 intellij seems to be using setsid with -w a lot 2024-01-18 14:48:52 okay thank you 2024-01-18 14:50:40 np \o/ 2024-01-18 16:47:14 is there a way to set GDM to run on X11 instead of wayland? 2024-01-18 16:48:33 i did the waylandEnable=false in custom.conf 2024-01-18 16:50:16 maybe you need to capitalize the W 2024-01-18 16:50:41 i don't know anything about gdm or its file format 2024-01-18 16:50:45 same issue 2024-01-18 16:50:58 or at least it seems to be still on wayland bcs i am stuck in framebuffer 2024-01-18 17:04:13 It's actually funny - Wayland has become easier to set up than X11 2024-01-18 17:06:12 second system was prophetic, and it kind of worked, because xorg was not getting streamlined, and all work on xorg basically stopped once redhat decided wayland was the thing. 2024-01-18 17:06:56 that doesn't mean wayland is good per se, it just wasn't a decision anybody got to vote on. 2024-01-18 17:07:09 outside of a few technical committees. 2024-01-18 17:10:02 hi, all opinion question, going all alpine on my systems, nas took a dump two days ago. I would like to setup a nas with alpine, raid, btrfs, lvm or mdadm. Like to keep is simple, big KISS fan. 2024-01-18 17:10:18 hmm weird doing setup-desktop it doesn't see the configuration, but doing postmarketos-ui-gnome it works 2024-01-18 17:11:25 <- doing homework to put postmarketos on my Dell Venue. 2024-01-18 17:14:02 txnintn: if it were me, on a nas i'd probably put the added-on bulk storage on zfs unless you plan to do backups on a consistent schedule 2024-01-18 17:14:11 but that might not be simple enough 2024-01-18 17:14:45 also don't use zfs if you're expecting to run it over 80% full 2024-01-18 17:14:53 it slows down a lot. 2024-01-18 17:15:39 I've been using btrfs on my desktop for about 18 months, do like that mdadm can email info. 2024-01-18 17:16:09 you can cron emails for anything 2024-01-18 17:17:05 I mainly use btrfs for compression, snapshots are nice too though 2024-01-18 17:17:11 Yes we ran a Freenas server about at work about 10 years ago.. need lots of ram of zfs. 2024-01-18 17:17:25 tradeoffs, but usually worth it 2024-01-18 17:17:40 especially if it's something you want to set up and just forget about it. 2024-01-18 17:18:43 That's this issue, retired my travel months at a time, need to keep it simple. 2024-01-18 17:18:58 if it's just a nas, why do you care how much ram zfs uses 2024-01-18 17:19:24 that's job 1 2024-01-18 17:19:39 main item is security camera video, 30 seconds at a time. 2024-01-18 17:20:02 yeah, i'd use zfs for that. 2024-01-18 17:20:13 100%. but that's just an opinion :) 2024-01-18 17:21:24 I really got behind on the industry, playing catchup...you can tell when I'm still running LGA775 stuff. 2024-01-18 17:22:18 fwiw zfs is much older than btrfs, etc 2024-01-18 17:22:36 or as some might say, "mature" 2024-01-18 17:22:43 sprayland 2024-01-18 17:22:45 that's all 2024-01-18 17:26:24 I'll do some homework on it, I ordered a replace for a lga 775 micro-atx, got a Z370 mb, with i5 and 16 gig of ram comming. 2024-01-18 17:26:43 That might work. 2024-01-18 17:26:43 that ought to be more than enough 2024-01-18 17:27:05 $150 off of ebay. 2024-01-18 17:27:06 i guess it depends on the volume of data you will be storing 2024-01-18 17:27:08 dang, you make me look like i'm in the future 2024-01-18 17:27:57 but you'll probably run into a network bottleneck before you hit a write bottleneck 2024-01-18 17:28:06 ACTION looks at their two (count'm!) HP Z440s, a ThinkPad T480, a Fujitsu Lifebook T935, Stylistic Q702, and pieces of a HP Elitebook 2760p - as well as the (disarmed) 775 they're sitting on. 2024-01-18 17:28:23 Heck my intel x48 was made in 2008 I think, 2024-01-18 17:29:16 Not shabby with ssd and 3.0 xeon cpu. 2024-01-18 17:30:07 just underprovision that ssd when you set it up 2024-01-18 17:30:17 why underprovision 2024-01-18 17:30:51 rather than explain here, it is covered in web search pretty well, i'd guess 2024-01-18 17:31:04 Allowing for wear leveing I suppose 2024-01-18 17:31:49 isn't that overprovisioning? or do i have it the other way round 2024-01-18 17:31:57 like you're giving it more space than you need 2024-01-18 17:32:05 overprovisioning is what the ssd manufacturer does, if they do it 2024-01-18 17:32:25 Ellenor: I understand it as using less space than provided 2024-01-18 17:32:47 underprovisioning is what you would do to use something less than what the ssd reports as available 2024-01-18 17:33:03 yup, I run ssd os and rust on data 2024-01-18 17:33:07 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/overprovision 2024-01-18 17:33:26 i think the dictionary is very clear on this, to overprovision is to have more than you need 2024-01-18 17:33:34 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/underprovision 2024-01-18 17:33:36 i didn't create the industry jargon 2024-01-18 17:33:58 and you don't have to use it if it's wrong, just a thought 2024-01-18 17:34:13 o-kay 2024-01-18 17:34:21 Ellenor: I guess a matter of perspective 2024-01-18 17:34:25 I'm gonna go back to kneading bread 2024-01-18 17:36:24 txnintn: especially if it's a used ssd off ebay, you might not know how many writes have been done till you get it. 2024-01-18 17:36:47 in that case especially i'd underprovision for safety 2024-01-18 17:36:49 I don't buy used ssd.. 2024-01-18 17:37:17 ... *starts throwing chairs* 2024-01-18 17:37:51 underprovisioning, for the final time, is installing less than you need. 2024-01-18 17:37:51 it's fine if you do, many of these ssds will go a very long time. 2024-01-18 17:38:27 okay i suggest you petition the people who actually make this jargon 2024-01-18 17:38:41 throw a chair at the industry, mmkay 2024-01-18 17:38:51 I have too much in rust, 8 1TB drives, 5) 2.5" raptors and 3) 3.5 blue label WD 2024-01-18 17:40:40 wd has burned me many times. unfortunately they also own sandisk now 2024-01-18 17:41:09 it's about all the same now, make in china. 2024-01-18 17:41:21 most people seem to call unprovisioning "overprovisioning" (as in "provision more storage space than you want") 2024-01-18 17:41:38 hopefully wd's quality problems don't change sandisk for the worse 2024-01-18 17:41:38 Ellenor: stop trying to die on this hill, it's rather annoying 2024-01-18 17:42:00 anyway I do that with SSDs all the time, I even added "overprovisioning" support to the growpart util 2024-01-18 17:42:18 I'm going to die on this hill, because words mean things. 2024-01-18 17:42:46 I mean, if you'd prefer, I can quiet you 2024-01-18 17:43:01 "i'm right because I can ban u" fuck you! 2024-01-18 17:43:09 i'm gonna frame this. 2024-01-18 17:43:12 here lies Ellenor, underprovisioned 2024-01-18 17:45:13 growpart has a "--free-percent" option 2024-01-18 17:51:03 hello, 2024-01-18 17:51:36 i need a bit of help, i stumbled on something wierd 2024-01-18 17:53:56 badwolf: what's up? 2024-01-18 17:54:29 i wanted to make a file server out of an old netbook i have lying around, and alpine boots fine (3.19.0 x86) but apk cant seams to find all packages that should be there according to the web regeistry 2024-01-18 17:54:54 helix for example or LXD/LXC 2024-01-18 17:54:54 what packages specifically? 2024-01-18 17:54:57 ah 2024-01-18 17:55:13 do you have the given repo in question in your /etc/apk/repositories? 2024-01-18 17:55:35 community in the case of helix 2024-01-18 17:55:40 which isn't enabled by default... 2024-01-18 17:56:02 you can do `setup-apkrepos -c' if not 2024-01-18 17:56:34 so that the issue thanks? 2024-01-18 17:56:40 lxd is also in community 2024-01-18 17:58:31 i only tried alpine in LXD on my main mashine before and the standard alpine build seams to have comunity enabled by default 2024-01-18 17:58:46 *thier 2024-01-18 18:00:20 I don't think so... but some of the setup scripts (setup-xorg-base) aggressively enables it regardless. 2024-01-18 18:02:57 interesting, regardless thanks alot 2024-01-18 18:04:28 no \o/ 2024-01-18 18:04:30 np* 2024-01-18 18:04:39 haha I should try to sleep, I'm starting to typo like crazy 2024-01-18 21:12:37 Hi, is there a way to run the normal linux kernel on a rapsberry pi 4, I am missing the mpls_iptunnel and mpls_router kernel modules in the linux-rpi package 2024-01-18 21:41:44 are you actually using an mpls setup? 2024-01-18 21:43:21 yes, I am 2024-01-18 23:04:03 famfo: the aarch64 linux-lts package may work in some fashion on RPIs but even if it does it is missing a lot of RPI-specific patches 2024-01-18 23:25:38 Hm, okay, thank you 2024-01-19 01:12:56 I am running kubernetes on Alpine and installing opensearch chart. This needs opensearch process to have max file descriptors of 65535 raised from default 4096. How do I accomplish this? Is it through linux-pam, or is there a better way to handle it using base system? 2024-01-19 01:14:20 you can set ulimits via conf.d for initscripts 2024-01-19 01:15:33 this would then get inherited by all children of the initscript 2024-01-19 01:18:32 Doesn't seem the best way to do it to all files but I will try it. Would I just create /etc/conf.d/foo with contents ulimit -n 65535? 2024-01-19 01:18:56 all processes* 2024-01-19 01:21:59 no, there's an openrc var for it 2024-01-19 01:22:37 and the only other option would be if kubernetes made the change itself 2024-01-19 01:30:15 is that rc_ulimit ? 2024-01-19 02:08:09 zcrayfish: sounds right, i don't have openrc manpages handy 2024-01-19 04:35:43 dwfreed: Thank you, setting rc_ulimit="-n 65535" in /etc/rc.conf fixed this for me. 2024-01-19 05:43:27 Well, I tried out the latest debian installer image and that boots just fine 2024-01-19 05:44:41 How can I tell what grub version each uses? 2024-01-19 06:31:09 Ah nvm the grub command line shows its version; still I can't get past the grub menu when trying to boot the alpine installer, so can someone tell me how to find that? 2024-01-19 08:42:41 Liver_K: if you've an issue with upgrading Edge and it not booting afterwards, have a read of https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/issues/15672 2024-01-19 09:01:13 Hey,guys.I have a question.How to install NVIDIA Proprietary Driver on Alpine Linux? 2024-01-19 09:04:43 (Use apk) 2024-01-19 09:05:00 package manager 2024-01-19 09:05:28 kjh7865: they don't work, since it assumes glibc 2024-01-19 09:07:18 @ikke thank you 2024-01-19 10:13:16 i have a qmk nyquist keyboard, programmed some keys to move/click the mouse, only mouse keys stopped working, havent tried reboot yet, is there something else i can try/check? 2024-01-19 10:13:50 wtf, nvm, just tried unplug/replug and now it worked........ 2024-01-19 10:14:32 uptime 22 days on my rpi btw hehe 2024-01-19 13:10:45 this must be this place's positive aura :) 2024-01-19 17:01:06 hi guys,... (full message at ) 2024-01-19 17:02:14 kaduvert[m]: Hey (screenshot at https://i.imgur.com/TM6hkVz.png) 2024-01-19 17:03:26 my response in a zipped doc via email 2024-01-19 17:04:55 kaduvert[m]: This is primarily an IRC channel, multi-line matrix messages are sent as a link 2024-01-19 17:07:45 kaduvert[m]: there is a separate package, networkmanager-cli that has those toles 2024-01-19 17:13:57 "kaduvert: This is primarily an..." <- did i do something wrong? 😁 2024-01-19 17:14:09 "kaduvert: there is a separate..." <- okay, thanks 2024-01-19 17:14:09 will try that 2024-01-19 17:14:15 kaduvert[m]: It's just that not all matrix features map well to irc 2024-01-19 17:14:20 So it would be nice to avoid them 2024-01-19 17:23:02 also networkmanager-tui 2024-01-19 17:23:09 (since that was also mentioned) 2024-01-19 17:36:47 hi all, I just upgraded grub (edge) and now when I try to boot it puts me into a rescue shell. 2024-01-19 17:37:21 when i try to list files from my efi partition it says unknown filesystem 2024-01-19 17:37:41 i guess thats also the reason why grub puts me into the rescue shell in the first place 2024-01-19 17:38:17 i figured out how to boot from a rescue usb and as far i can tell everything looks normal on my efi partition 2024-01-19 17:38:39 the efi partition is vfat 2024-01-19 17:39:14 I'm wondering if you ran into this: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0#grub_2.12 2024-01-19 17:39:49 not sure what's up with your rescue usb being unable to read the partition though... vfat module missing? 2024-01-19 17:42:35 maybe, i will try to upgrade grub 2024-01-19 17:43:34 the rescue usb can read the partition 2024-01-19 17:44:03 the grub on my efi partition can't 2024-01-19 17:44:11 thank you for the link :-) 2024-01-19 17:48:07 np 2024-01-19 17:58:05 it seems like this was not the problem unfortunatley 2024-01-19 17:58:59 i still end up in a rescue shell, ls (hd0,gpt1) returns unknown filesystem 2024-01-19 17:59:27 insmod vfat fails, i guess because the vfat module is on the filesystem grub can't read 2024-01-19 18:02:18 this seems like a chicken and egg problem. how do I load the vfat module from the vfat filesystem? 2024-01-19 18:02:35 does anyone know how this usually works? 2024-01-19 18:03:16 it you cant read it, you're literally stuck by being "locked out" unless you can get it onto another thing (usb?) and insmod it from there 2024-01-19 18:04:42 well I can boot the system from a rescue usb 2024-01-19 18:05:02 but i don't know how to fix it so that i don't always have to use a rescue usb to boot my laptop 2024-01-19 18:05:40 bpalu, when you upgraded grub, did you re-install grub too or just update the package? 2024-01-19 18:07:21 You need to both run grub-install again and copy the bootfile 2024-01-19 18:08:04 at first i just upgraded the package after which my laptop stopped booting 2024-01-19 18:08:20 then using the rescue usb i booted again and tried apk fix grub which didnt help 2024-01-19 18:08:37 and after that i followed the instructions from the 3.20 release notes 2024-01-19 18:09:31 sorry, what do you mean by bootfile ikke? 2024-01-19 18:10:03 /boot/EFI/alpine/grubx64.efi to /boot/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi 2024-01-19 18:11:17 okay lets see if that solves it, brb 2024-01-19 18:12:31 (that was mentioned in the wiki article) 2024-01-19 18:14:35 bpalu: Grub "insmod" or running insmod in initramfs? 2024-01-19 18:18:31 ikke: didnt fix it unfortunately 2024-01-19 18:18:34 as a grub command it would let it reach the initramfs to load 2024-01-19 18:18:55 ikke: is the install command just copying the file? 2024-01-19 18:19:03 minimal: grub insmod 2024-01-19 18:22:08 bpalu: yes 2024-01-19 18:22:15 bpalu: I copied the command from what setup-alpine does 2024-01-19 18:23:07 minimal: I've updated the release notes, do they look okay? https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 2024-01-19 18:25:22 ikke so you think the main issue is the config file? 2024-01-19 18:25:51 Well, that is what triggers it 2024-01-19 18:25:56 ie, causes it to fail 2024-01-19 18:29:22 bpalu: Grub "insmod" loads from /boot/grub, not from ESP filesystem 2024-01-19 18:32:12 is not /boot where the efi system partition is usually mounted? at least on my system thats the case 2024-01-19 18:32:35 ikke: perhaps make it clearer to differenciate between when to do grub-install/cp (*IF* system was not rebooted after updating Grub package) and copying the old grub.cfg (if system WAS rebooted) 2024-01-19 18:33:17 bpalu: Sys-mode install? isn't ESP mounted at /boot/efi? 2024-01-19 18:34:08 i am not 100% sure but i think i have a default crypt/sysmode install 2024-01-19 18:34:32 and df /boot returns my /dev/nvme0n1p1 which is my efi partition 2024-01-19 18:36:05 ah: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/alpine-conf/-/blob/master/setup-disk.in?ref_type=heads#L1147 2024-01-19 18:36:13 ikke: for me grub.cfg and grub.cfg.bak are the same. where can i find the old /etc/grub.d/* files so that i can regenerate the old config? 2024-01-19 18:36:34 so normally separate /boot and ESP filesystems UNLESS it is UEFi + crypt 2024-01-19 23:38:53 thank you all for your help :-) in the end I think my problem was, that I reinstalled grub from the rescue usb on to my efi partition and it had a hardcoded disk uuid of the rescue usb so when i tried to boot without the rescue usb it couldnt find the partition 2024-01-19 23:42:39 EF`: Not my issue no. I've outlined it in here recently 2024-01-20 00:09:03 Specifically now I need to know what version of grub the installer image uses. Working on finding that out but I'd like it if somebody could just tell me 2024-01-20 00:15:58 Liver_K: the ISOs use Grub 2.06 2024-01-20 00:16:10 Grub 2.12 only exists in Edge currently 2024-01-20 00:16:55 Weird, the debian installer boots just fine and it uses 2.06-13+deb12u1 2024-01-20 00:17:16 Why would the alpine one specifically be freezing 2024-01-20 00:18:15 freezing? 2024-01-20 00:19:01 Yep, I described the problem a few times in here, but basically the entire computer locks down and becomes unresponsive once the grub menu shows up when booting the alpine installer 2024-01-20 00:19:24 Tried extended and standard, my flashing worked fine as the drives boot fine on other machines 2024-01-20 00:20:22 and I think I asked if you tried 3.18? 2024-01-20 00:20:48 Does that use the same grub? 2024-01-20 00:22:59 not 100% the same 2024-01-20 00:23:10 in the same way that Debian's is not 100% the same 2024-01-20 00:24:20 In what ways are they not 100% the same? 2024-01-20 00:24:21 so at the Grub menu you can't do anything? i.e. press "e" to edit the Grub menyu option? 2024-01-20 00:24:32 in that they are not 100% the same code 2024-01-20 00:25:15 e.g. Debian's 2.06-13+deb12u1 is NOT Grub 2.06, it is Grub 2.06 with some modifications 2024-01-20 00:25:25 otherwise it would be called 2.06, not 2.06-13+deb12u1 2024-01-20 00:26:36 also even if it was the exact same source code, when it is compiled the result is guaranteed to be different from some way from the same code compiled on another distro 2024-01-20 00:27:15 so you didn't try Alpine 3.18? 2024-01-20 00:28:17 you haven't answered whether you can edit the Grub menu item or not 2024-01-20 00:29:39 No, the entire system freezes totally. I have to do a hard shutdown just to turn it off 2024-01-20 00:29:47 Just tried 3.18, same problem 2024-01-20 00:30:12 "Trying to terminate EFI services again" is the last message grub gives before freezing 2024-01-20 00:34:39 Have you checked the UEFI settings? 2024-01-20 00:34:48 ~Is "fastboot" enabled? 2024-01-20 00:35:03 I have, fastboot is always disabled on my machines, as well as secure boot 2024-01-20 00:35:42 well a single search for that message shows various people with various OSes "fixing" that message by disabling fast boot 2024-01-20 00:38:09 Yeah, I'm just confused why debian's grub doesn't have this problem 2024-01-20 00:38:32 32bit or 64bit Debian? 2024-01-20 00:38:50 can you get to EFI Shell? 2024-01-20 00:39:10 This is an x86_64 machine 2024-01-20 00:39:23 and the UEFI? is *IT* 32 or 64bit? 2024-01-20 00:39:32 can you get to UEFI shell? 2024-01-20 00:41:10 I don't have a UEFI shell drive handy... 2024-01-20 00:41:21 the UEFI doesn't have it built in? 2024-01-20 00:41:27 No 2024-01-20 00:41:44 wel lthen no easy way to tell if 32bit or 64bit UEFI 2024-01-20 00:41:46 Closest it has is a menu option to run an EFI program 2024-01-20 00:42:12 minimal: How would the UEFI be 32 bit if the machine is 64 bit lol 2024-01-20 00:42:21 because it can be 2024-01-20 00:42:38 and it's not "the machine", you mean "the CPU" 2024-01-20 00:42:45 Liver_K, old efi sometimes were. 2024-01-20 00:42:54 e.g. some Windows tablets have 32bit UEFI and 64bit CPUs 2024-01-20 00:43:08 the original intel macs did too 2024-01-20 00:43:31 on linux, you needed "efi mixed mode" support to boot via efi stub or to build a 32 bit efi bootloader stub 2024-01-20 00:43:44 so try booting x86 Alpine rather than x86_64 Alpine? 2024-01-20 00:45:05 tdr: the x86 ISO will have bootia32.efi whereas the x86_64 ISO will have bootx86.efi AFAIK 2024-01-20 00:45:42 hmm.....actually forget that, if you're seeing Grub menu then that's not the issue 2024-01-20 00:46:03 Liver_K: once again, you haven't answered whether you can edit the Grub menu item or not 2024-01-20 00:46:05 yep, if you see grub, its already executed the stub and read the grub.cfg 2024-01-20 00:47:35 Doesn't the UEFI run on the same CPU? I don't understand why they would put in the effort to make 32 bit EFI programs run on a 64 bit CPU 2024-01-20 00:47:47 minimal: I did, I can't 2024-01-20 00:48:02 Liver_K: did you try immediately when the menu appeared? 2024-01-20 00:48:43 No, I'll do that 2024-01-20 00:48:48 sigh 2024-01-20 00:49:10 if you don't do it quickly then Grub will try booting the kernel 2024-01-20 00:49:22 trying to determine if it is Grub freezing or the kernel 2024-01-20 01:00:19 minimal: Well it worked now that I pressed it really fast 2024-01-20 01:01:24 What params should I try? 2024-01-20 01:02:47 remove "quiet" from the options 2024-01-20 01:02:54 then press Ctrl-X to boot 2024-01-20 01:03:36 so Grub is *NOT* hanging, it is after that - i.e. either kernel initialisation problem or initramfs problem 2024-01-20 01:04:11 Yeah it hangs after ctrl-X and giving the message again, "Trying to terminate EFI services again" 2024-01-20 01:04:21 you removed "quiet"? 2024-01-20 01:04:23 yes 2024-01-20 01:04:33 anything else displayed? 2024-01-20 01:04:38 No 2024-01-20 01:04:52 try Alpine 3.18 2024-01-20 01:05:12 Why does it have both intel and amd microcode images on the initrd line? 2024-01-20 01:05:42 because its a "generic" ISO............there are not separate AMD and Intel ISOs 2024-01-20 01:06:06 try Alpine 3.18 2024-01-20 01:06:23 Does it just try both or what? 2024-01-20 01:06:40 forget about that, focus on your problem 2024-01-20 01:12:57 Same result with 3.18 2024-01-20 01:13:04 3.18.5 I should say 2024-01-20 01:13:18 Or did you mean for me to try 3.18.0? 2024-01-20 01:13:25 are you running the latest available UEFI for that machine? 2024-01-20 01:13:31 3.18.5 is fine 2024-01-20 01:13:41 Yes, it's on the latest firmware 2024-01-20 01:13:51 But it is pretty old, the update is from 2018 2024-01-20 01:14:53 could be UEFI issue/bug 2024-01-20 01:16:15 -_- 2024-01-20 01:17:13 does the UEFI support CSM/BIOS-booting? 2024-01-20 01:17:22 "Legacy" booting 2024-01-20 01:25:14 It does have a "Legacy Support" option under its "secure boot configuration" settings section 2024-01-20 01:26:03 well BIOS booting may work 2024-01-20 01:28:51 minimal: It does, but the BIOS installer can only install BIOS alpine IIRC 2024-01-20 01:29:46 well do you want to install Alpine or not? 2024-01-20 01:36:13 Sure, but it looks like 3.18.5 gives a kernel panic when using BIOS booting 2024-01-20 01:40:14 starting to sound like that machine has a crap UEFI/BIOS 2024-01-20 01:40:33 kernel panic with what? 2024-01-20 01:41:27 "not syncing: Attempted to kill the idle task!" 2024-01-20 01:44:45 and the panic should show a stack dump which likely indicates in which part of kernel it happened 2024-01-20 01:45:07 I can't copy+paste that though... 2024-01-20 01:45:15 Or screenshot it... 2024-01-20 01:46:40 and does Alpine 3.19 panic? 2024-01-20 01:47:24 Yes 2024-01-20 01:47:28 Same error 2024-01-20 01:48:06 sounds like you're out of luck with that PC 2024-01-20 01:51:51 FFS how is it that debian is flawless on it 2024-01-20 01:52:13 It's no problem to use debian over alpine but I was really hoping to get this to work on it 2024-01-20 01:53:02 Liver_K: you're referring to a specific version of Debian..... 2024-01-20 01:53:19 whic hlikely has a different version of Linux kernel (probably quite old) 2024-01-20 01:53:32 Alpine 3.19 is kernel 6.6.x, 3.18 is 6.1.x 2024-01-20 01:53:48 Debian might even be 5.x 2024-01-20 01:55:26 Oh, debian stable is 6.1.x 2024-01-20 01:55:56 my point is you are not comparing like-with-like 2024-01-20 01:56:26 Similar with similar 2024-01-20 01:56:52 for BIOS crashing, try adding "iommu=pt" to boot option 2024-01-20 01:57:43 how are they similar? Even if the kernels in both are the EXACT same version they likely have different configs and are compiled differently 2024-01-20 01:58:40 an online search shows various article about problems with that machine 2024-01-20 01:59:01 one of which mentioned adding that "iommu=pt" to deal with Ubuntu kernel crashes 2024-01-20 02:00:08 How do you change the boot options for BIOS booting? 2024-01-20 02:00:12 There's no grub menu or anything 2024-01-20 02:00:32 hit TAB key when the "ISOLINUX" line appears? 2024-01-20 02:00:53 That just prints "lts" 2024-01-20 02:01:26 sigh, it is Syslinux so do whatever you do with Syslinux to change cmdline 2024-01-20 02:05:33 Never used syslinux before... 2024-01-20 02:09:38 another article for same machine not working for Manjaro, with another different suggestion of UEFI setting... 2024-01-20 02:32:59 Hi am a valued Vendor who knows what am looking for, a long term partner who's going to be able to work with me without any lie,have been hurt so many times,lost a lot of bucks to someone who i wish i would even kill when i find him,don't want that to happen or even to come across with any ripper , well I Want to Introduce you... (full message at ) 2024-01-20 02:33:25 lol owned 2024-01-20 02:37:39 Whenever I run $ tcpdump ; I'm getting a message ~1.5 seconds: ARP, Ethernet (len 6), IPv4 (len 4), Request who-has 1.128.0.0 (00:00:00:00:c0:a8 (oui Ethernet)) tell 0.0.0.0, length 46 2024-01-20 02:38:31 Not sure what the reason is, everything is working great. 2024-01-20 03:11:42 something on your network is generating that 2024-01-20 03:22:26 Yeah im looking into it. Im unable to ping 127.0.0.1 or 0.0.0.0, never get a reply. So maybe a firewall issue or something 2024-01-20 03:46:05 turns out net.ipv4.icmp_echo_ignore_all set to 1 ignores localhost pinging as well. Huh, learn something new. 2024-01-20 03:50:49 you couldn't ping 127.0.0.1? why not? that's your box 2024-01-20 03:51:12 why did you try and ping that anyway? 2024-01-20 03:51:58 also you showed an ARP request packet, it's at a lower level than TCP/IP 2024-01-20 03:53:32 Yes i understand the networking levels. Often fixing one issue can help fixing the other. So i was seeing why I couldn't ping localhost, which is unusual. Then I found out that it was the sysctl option I had set earlier. Unsetting it didn't help the arp situation though. 2024-01-20 03:53:36 something on your local network is asking for the MAC address of whichever box has the IP address 1.128.0.0, which means which machine sent that must be in the same 1.0.0.0/8 or 1.128.0.0/16 (or similar) range network range 2024-01-20 03:56:36 Which is unusual because A) I'm behind a Class C address (192.168.1.x) and B) 0.0.0.0 would refer to myself (from what i've read) 2024-01-20 03:57:10 that's why it's strange 2024-01-20 03:57:28 so check every box on your local network... 2024-01-20 04:00:40 Yeah I can see at least one other machine getting the same exact logs in tcpdump; And since neither of them are in promiscuous mode, its probably happening to all machines on the network 2024-01-20 04:01:04 Networking is weird 2024-01-20 04:01:06 but fun! 2024-01-20 04:01:44 "happening to all machine"? of course an ARP request will be seen by all machines on the local network 2024-01-20 04:02:02 I asked you to check every machine to FIND the one generating them 2024-01-20 04:02:23 i.e. with an interface in that network range 2024-01-20 04:03:19 I was meaning that it was actually _on_ the network. And not some weird issue with my laptop specifically. 2024-01-20 04:04:18 so why mention this traffic if you've no interest in finding what is generating it? 2024-01-20 04:04:53 the MAC address looks strange 2024-01-20 04:05:18 I do have interest, but im lazy and everything still works so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2024-01-20 04:06:06 ikr i did a mac address lookup and it looks like nothing i've ever seen 2024-01-20 04:07:02 mac address lookup? like arp -a ? 2024-01-20 04:07:36 as in, websites you can go to which will tell you the vendor of the address 2024-01-20 04:07:37 tdr: that will show the results of any ARP responses seen by the machine 2024-01-20 04:07:59 he's referring to check OUI prefix list 2024-01-20 04:08:19 yeah 2024-01-20 04:08:51 some come back surprising, especially if sold and not updated 2024-01-20 04:10:11 "Man on phone call: Doctor I've got a funny pain but I couldn't be bothered to work out where it is. Doctor: so what do you expect me to do then?" 2024-01-20 04:12:14 I wasn't expecting Sherlock Holmes lol. Just if anyone had seen anything like that before. 2024-01-20 04:13:25 yes I've seen ARP Request packets before, many times 2024-01-20 04:13:59 lol you are unbearable 2024-01-20 04:14:42 yes I've seen ARP Request packets for a different IP range before when someone decided to use more than subnet on the same physical network 2024-01-20 04:15:13 Ah now that's better 2024-01-20 04:15:20 Good to know 2024-01-20 04:15:55 that's why VLANs were invented, to let you *correctly* run multiple subnets over the same physical cable yet keep them isolated 2024-01-20 05:03:52 Oh gamingirc you're back. 2024-01-20 05:04:01 I was going to say something last time. Forgot. :) 2024-01-20 05:05:41 Any luck with the steam/proton things? I found two games I couldn't launch. Dota 2 and life is strange first episode. Portal games and a mod of the second worked. A different portal mod crashes. 2024-01-20 05:05:54 Don't know if any of that involves proton. 2024-01-20 05:06:43 Sofia: dota 2 uses the Steam Linux runtime. 2024-01-20 05:06:55 (you can force it to use proton, but why?) 2024-01-20 05:07:50 zcrayfish: Dota 2 works for you on steam on alpine? 2024-01-20 05:08:34 It did before, but it has been a very long time. give me a minute and I'll check it again 2024-01-20 05:08:39 ACTION has barely ever touched steam. Is slow bloated mess. Just wants to play some games with her girlfriend. <3 2024-01-20 05:08:49 I've been able to play Terraria, Enter The Gungeon, Portal. Native games seem to work fine 2024-01-20 05:09:01 proton is another story though 2024-01-20 05:11:02 Fallout 4 working fine on proton here right now. 2024-01-20 05:11:22 What proton are you using 2024-01-20 05:11:23 In steam in flatpak on Alpine? 2024-01-20 05:11:31 Sofia: yes 2024-01-20 05:11:56 gamingirc: proton experimental 2024-01-20 05:12:25 ACTION awaits dota 2 verdict 2024-01-20 05:12:37 If it works, I wonder why not for me. Or if it doesn't, I wonder what broke it. 2024-01-20 05:13:56 dota 2 fifty gigs 2024-01-20 05:14:01 why is it so fat 2024-01-20 05:14:09 For one map game. <_< 2024-01-20 05:14:12 ~1.5 download size. 2024-01-20 05:14:16 yeah, it's fat AF 2024-01-20 05:14:36 oh I miscounted 2024-01-20 05:14:48 the initial download is 1.5, then it downloads a massive update. 2024-01-20 05:14:53 Heh 2024-01-20 05:14:56 trickery 2024-01-20 05:15:58 that's gonna take a little while to download at ~8MB/s :p 2024-01-20 05:16:19 Life is strange is probably smaller 2024-01-20 05:16:34 probably 2024-01-20 05:17:20 Ill try life is strange 2024-01-20 05:17:22 on 2G 2024-01-20 05:17:24 only 2024-01-20 05:17:41 Just 2G 2024-01-20 05:17:43 yes 2024-01-20 05:17:45 lol 2024-01-20 05:18:48 Dota 2 processes the vulkan shaders for something on the order of an hour then doesn't launch. 2024-01-20 05:19:03 Don't know if skipping should still run the game maybe less optimized or something? 2024-01-20 05:20:03 try toggling the shader pre-caching setting and see if that makes a difference. 2024-01-20 05:20:26 it's under settings > downloads 2024-01-20 05:22:12 ACTION tries it 2024-01-20 05:22:45 Is verifying update to dota 2 2024-01-20 05:24:00 Tried life is strange instead, just immediate fails 2024-01-20 05:24:17 nothing helpful in the console 2024-01-20 05:24:31 With proton experimental, Life Is Strange Ep1 launches and then closes. Proton log shows alot, one thing of note: Application tried to create a window, but no driver could be loaded. Make sure that your X server is running and that $DISPLAY is set correctly 2024-01-20 05:24:51 That error is on every game i've tried with proton thus far 2024-01-20 05:25:51 Hmm 2024-01-20 05:26:01 "launches then closes" as in opens a window or just changes the status in steam? 2024-01-20 05:26:06 I get the status changes, no windows. 2024-01-20 05:26:11 which GPU are y'all using? 2024-01-20 05:26:17 No windows. Just status changes 2024-01-20 05:26:54 Intel Alder Lake [Iris Xe Graphics] 2024-01-20 05:27:08 integrated gpu 2024-01-20 05:27:11 on my laptop 2024-01-20 05:27:41 that's cool, not too far off of what I am using; TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics] 2024-01-20 05:28:16 iGPU. iHD, 10th-gen i7, just before Iris became a thing... 2024-01-20 05:28:40 Sofia 2024-01-20 05:28:51 try Life Is Strange with proton 4.11-13 2024-01-20 05:28:57 Okay 2024-01-20 05:29:00 gamingirc, sort of whether its wayland or xorg, X should set it for you, wayland you may need to export a variable or pick it up via xdg things 2024-01-20 05:29:23 Older version? 2024-01-20 05:29:29 Yes 2024-01-20 05:29:47 Oh it wants update 2024-01-20 05:30:05 Next installs proton 4.11 2024-01-20 05:30:43 From what I've read, proton version 5-13+ work very differently than before, and this affects flatpak steam 2024-01-20 05:30:45 Guess this is grabbing windows version? 2024-01-20 05:31:03 Hmm 2024-01-20 05:31:17 Life is strange launched for you with this version? 2024-01-20 05:31:20 yes 2024-01-20 05:31:29 I see a window 2024-01-20 05:31:45 seems to be working 2024-01-20 05:32:24 seems 2024-01-20 05:32:27 lol 2024-01-20 05:32:29 Such confidence ! 2024-01-20 05:32:40 5.0-10 works as well 2024-01-20 05:33:02 im gonna see where it breaks 2024-01-20 05:33:05 I switch to that one then? 2024-01-20 05:33:29 Well running the latest that works is probably the best 2024-01-20 05:34:17 yeah 5.13-6 fails 2024-01-20 05:35:19 So looks like anything before that is fair game 2024-01-20 05:37:34 Launching.....? 2024-01-20 05:37:50 Seems to have a 'safe mode' 2024-01-20 05:37:54 Wonder what that does 2024-01-20 05:38:11 not sure 2024-01-20 05:38:48 alot of games take a bit to launch because they're running "DXSETUP.exe" in the background 2024-01-20 05:38:57 o.o 2024-01-20 05:40:04 Running 2024-01-20 05:40:19 Super laggy 2024-01-20 05:40:42 Yeah i fullscreened it and it stopped being laggy 2024-01-20 05:40:49 idk if that was caused by the fullscreen though 2024-01-20 05:40:55 or coincidence 2024-01-20 05:41:40 Settings to low. Stable. 2024-01-20 05:41:43 Audio crackly 2024-01-20 05:43:10 There is another proton which seems to work. It was a proton made to be the "experimental" but still work on flatpak. com.valvesoftware.Steam/CompatibilityTool.Proton-Exp 2024-01-20 05:43:39 com.valvesoftware.Steam.CompatibilityTool.Proton-Exp 2024-01-20 05:43:54 It's apparently no longer being maintained though lol. 2024-01-20 05:44:00 I'm not using any proton installed via flatpak; only the protons installed via steam itself. 2024-01-20 05:44:35 Yeah i was just mentioning that one because it's mentioned on the alpine wiki and seems to be a more up to date but still working version 2024-01-20 05:44:41 from Feb 2023 2024-01-20 05:47:40 which article is that on the wiki anyway? 2024-01-20 05:48:14 sway.... wtf. 2024-01-20 05:48:43 Yep 2024-01-20 05:48:46 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Sway#Steam_games_launched_via_Proton_crash_before_creating_a_window 2024-01-20 05:50:20 such scope creep... 2024-01-20 05:50:38 unless that issue is specific to sway 2024-01-20 05:50:46 I wouldn't know 2024-01-20 05:51:16 Doubt it. Probably just on Sway because it's a popular compositer for wayland 2024-01-20 05:52:06 In which case it needs to be moved off of the Sway article and onto the Steam article. 2024-01-20 05:52:30 I agree 2024-01-20 05:53:10 I mean it is linked 2024-01-20 05:53:21 from the Steam page to the Sway one 2024-01-20 05:53:24 Honestly surprised my laptop is handling this game as well as it is in proton no less. 2024-01-20 05:53:26 but it should work the other way around 2024-01-20 05:53:47 Sofia: is the game still laggy 2024-01-20 05:53:53 Crackly audio and settings at low but still, decent detail and animations. 2024-01-20 05:54:05 Not the smoothest at all moments but certainly decent. 2024-01-20 05:54:18 I think this is the best we got right now 2024-01-20 05:54:30 at least until flatpak steam is updated to work better with proton 2024-01-20 05:54:57 The most relevant issue I found was this 2024-01-20 05:54:59 https://github.com/flathub/com.valvesoftware.Steam/issues/642 2024-01-20 05:55:17 But it's closed so i don't know 2024-01-20 05:56:03 It's closed because the issue was resolved in flatpak 1.12.1 2024-01-20 05:56:13 Edge is running 1.14.5 2024-01-20 05:56:30 im on latest-stable running 1.14.4 2024-01-20 05:56:37 so it's certaintly still an issue 2024-01-20 05:56:38 yeah, you beat me to it. 2024-01-20 05:57:56 latest-stable as in v3.19 or the symlink to whatever latest is? 2024-01-20 05:58:02 yeah 2024-01-20 05:58:09 So symlink? lol 2024-01-20 05:58:13 yeah 2024-01-20 05:58:17 Unsure if that is recommended... 2024-01-20 05:58:33 In the install they tell you you can do it 2024-01-20 05:58:41 There's nothing wrong with using latest-stable instead of v3.19; users just need to be aware that they may suddenly jump versions is all. 2024-01-20 05:58:43 Some people had issues with grub updates recently. 2024-01-20 05:58:51 That's on 3.20/Edge 2024-01-20 05:58:52 ACTION nods 2024-01-20 05:58:56 Oh 2024-01-20 05:59:03 I don't use grub anyways. I just boot with EFISTUB 2024-01-20 05:59:07 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0#grub_2.12 2024-01-20 05:59:16 same here gamingirc 2024-01-20 05:59:17 gamingirc: Same. Signed UKI 2024-01-20 05:59:57 Signed? I wonder if you could get secure boot working 2024-01-20 06:00:14 https://alpinelinux.org/posts/Alpine-3.15.11-3.16.8-3.17.6-3.18.5-released.html <- heh. Pleased to announce immediate updates due to security fixes. Uhhh. Pleasing to solve or pleasing to have the issue to need to solve? XD 2024-01-20 06:01:02 Yeah they just say that every time lol 2024-01-20 06:01:26 getting efistub to work with disk encryption was a bitch at first 2024-01-20 06:01:41 eventually I just looked at the kernel parameters GRUB was using to work and copied those 2024-01-20 06:02:25 gamingirc: Yes, I had secureboot working immediately. 2024-01-20 06:03:19 Copied my old keys into my alpine chroot while installing it from my old system; then rebooted pretty much directly into it. Few caveats; forgot to mount my efi partition, so didn't actually install the UKI at first, then had to add a few modules to the initrd. Few very simple mistakes. Then worked. \o/ 2024-01-20 06:03:36 Since able to dual boot between the two distros and run the other in chroot. 2024-01-20 06:04:15 Speaking of such things. Any reasonable way to recover or keep the /lib/modules/kver to load kernel modules for the running kernel after updating? 2024-01-20 06:05:21 Or are the modules put into the initrd for safe keeping? 2024-01-20 06:06:12 Are you referring to the modules being cleaned up from /lib/modules/version when updating, And you want them to stay there? 2024-01-20 06:06:21 Yes. 2024-01-20 06:06:31 Or at least restore them so I can load the tun module for my running kernel. 2024-01-20 06:06:52 Tried downgrading the kernel but apk just said it'd break world and rejected the idea. 2024-01-20 06:07:17 Couldn't you just chattr +i the directory 2024-01-20 06:08:06 heh, you guys were not kidding about DOTA2 Vulkan shaders taking forever 2024-01-20 06:08:44 Dota3 you will get to roleplay as a shader 2024-01-20 06:11:49 Sofia: you said your steam UI is very laggy? 2024-01-20 06:20:57 Sofia gon 2024-01-20 06:21:01 with the wind 2024-01-20 06:21:19 bummer. 2024-01-20 06:21:20 zcrayfish: Think the laggy parts aren't so easy to express contrast to the fans demonstrating the load. 2024-01-20 06:21:25 gamingirc: Nope 2024-01-20 06:21:42 oh 2024-01-20 06:22:19 Maybe if the steam client wasn't __absolutely proprietary__ then it wouldn't be so bad 2024-01-20 06:22:29 Maybe if valve would FIX the damn thing 2024-01-20 06:22:32 With nothing but steam in its "small mode" and htop running on my screen (with currently the life is strange in another workspace, it is idle); steam is at ~25%. Doing absolutely nothing. 2024-01-20 06:22:33 for example, the split locks. 2024-01-20 06:23:13 Oh wait no 2024-01-20 06:23:27 Sorry. That was life is strange on the Z: drive which somehow exists on my Linux system heh 2024-01-20 06:23:44 I like how when i start up steam it says "Waiting for network" for like 5 whole seconds before doing anything 2024-01-20 06:24:02 even though the network is up and has been up forever 2024-01-20 06:24:12 very well made software 2024-01-20 06:24:15 13-20% in "big mode" 2024-01-20 06:24:21 ~2% in small mode 2024-01-20 06:24:33 I forgot about small mode 2024-01-20 06:25:28 flatpak run com.valvesoftware.Steam -dev -console -nofriendsui -nocrashmonitor -nobigpicture -nointro -vrdisable -no-browser +open steam://open/minigameslist 2024-01-20 06:25:31 How I launch it 2024-01-20 06:26:18 enough options to kill a bear 2024-01-20 06:26:29 Settings tuned to use hardware acceleration where available, reduce animations / laptop mode, et al options to reduce load where I can 2024-01-20 06:26:41 the option to disable CEF used to be enough, too bad they ditched it 2024-01-20 06:27:29 cef is such a shit show. I had a crashing option that still occasionally happens where cef with segfault and bring steam down entirely with it, freezing many of the games i might be playing 2024-01-20 06:27:44 issue* not option 2024-01-20 06:28:32 another issue with steam, dumbass drm that doesn't allow you to play without the steam client running 2024-01-20 06:31:01 yeah, that's annoying, especially if you're offline playing 2024-01-20 06:34:52 cef? 2024-01-20 06:35:14 Chromium Embedded Framework 2024-01-20 06:35:24 The built-in browser trash. 2024-01-20 06:35:43 gamingirc: See why I'll prefer to get games from gog and epic using heroic, also in steam. Can launch the games outside of that apparently. 2024-01-20 06:36:01 ACTION nods 2024-01-20 06:38:39 Yeah, one thing that steam has that I wish GOG had was gift cards. That way i can put money on my account without tying a bank account to it 2024-01-20 06:42:31 dota2 working fine over here, FWIW. 2024-01-20 06:42:58 that's a lot of disk space for so little content though. heh 2024-01-20 06:43:11 At least it isnt ark 2024-01-20 06:43:59 So this makes the full list of games I have played lately on steam: 2024-01-20 06:44:02 Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Fallout: New Vegas, Mafia III, Sniper Elite 3, Subnautica, Subnautica: Below Zero, Worms Armageddon, BATTLETECH, Command & Conquer Remastered, Deponia: The Complete Journey, Quake II, Serious Sam Classic (1 + 2), Terraria, tModLoader, DOTA2 2024-01-20 06:44:32 I did't put DOSBOX or ScummVM games in the list because why in the heck would I launch those with steam? lol 2024-01-20 06:44:44 I still need to finish Fallout 3 2024-01-20 06:45:13 It's good but ive got some mixed feelings 2024-01-20 06:47:24 zcrayfish: Working out of the box without proton or any settings? 2024-01-20 06:47:38 Was there a long delay compiling shaders? 2024-01-20 06:49:22 DOTA2 doesn't use proton by default because it is linux native (Sniper runtime) 2024-01-20 06:49:28 Yes the shaders took forever. 2024-01-20 06:49:50 a good ~30 minutes!!! 2024-01-20 06:50:17 But why it work for you not me? D: 2024-01-20 06:51:24 idk. 2024-01-20 06:51:46 I am on the edge kernel on the edge branch too... 2024-01-20 06:51:56 Ah 2024-01-20 06:51:59 Hmm 2024-01-20 06:52:09 Does flatpak steam interact with much more than the kernel dependency wise? 2024-01-20 06:52:48 And wayland/sway and xwayland/x 2024-01-20 06:53:20 and pipewire... okay list getting there. Probably the graphics drivers or bring them itself? 2024-01-20 06:54:48 not sure about the dependencies 2024-01-20 06:55:10 using LXQt here. (either openbox on Xorg or more typically labwc on wayland) 2024-01-20 06:59:56 I might as well try dota and see 2024-01-20 07:00:27 time to decrease my hardware lifespan a year compiling shaders 2024-01-20 07:03:35 actually i could just skip the shaders 2024-01-20 07:03:43 not like it matters for the game launching 2024-01-20 07:16:20 man I'll be glad when the LXQt taskbar widget is fixed to work in wayland. 2024-01-20 07:16:31 I don't care much for waybar 2024-01-20 07:20:45 imagine using waybar 2024-01-20 07:20:50 swaybar chads where you at 2024-01-20 07:24:39 Using swaybar 2024-01-20 07:24:48 I want to turn off the display of a laptop without X11 in the console like "vbetool dpms off" does. vbetool seems to be missing from Alpine repositories. There has been a package request since 2012 (https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/issues/960), but apparently it has not been fulfilled. Is there an (other) way to do this, without vbetools? 2024-01-20 07:26:50 consoleblank kernel cmdline option or setterm --blank 2024-01-20 07:26:55 (though neither are instant) 2024-01-20 07:28:16 Indeed instantly turning off the display is what I need. 2024-01-20 07:33:59 I wonder if fbcon's sysfs entries can be used somehow 2024-01-20 07:34:15 lupo_on_oftc: Don't know if it works for everyone, but I change my display brightness by echoing the value I want to /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness 2024-01-20 07:34:43 requires root though, don't know if that's an issue for you 2024-01-20 07:35:50 isn't that part of the video group? 2024-01-20 07:36:19 well im in video, but it still requires root 2024-01-20 07:36:38 I'm in video and don't need root. 2024-01-20 07:36:58 are you using the same exact way to change the brightness or what 2024-01-20 07:37:12 echo 0 > 2024-01-20 07:37:28 I've found solution :) "setterm --blank force" 2024-01-20 07:37:31 gamingirc: I used to do that, now use brightnessctl. No root needed, just udev or something. 2024-01-20 07:37:47 lupo_on_oftc: nice! 2024-01-20 07:38:29 that probably provides better power savings than simply turning the backlight off 2024-01-20 07:38:53 https://github.com/Hummer12007/brightnessctl#permissions 2024-01-20 07:38:57 ah so brightnessctl works because it uses udev 2024-01-20 07:39:03 > 2024-01-20 07:39:03 otherwise it would fail 2024-01-20 07:39:05 installing relevant udev rules to add permissions to backlight class devices for users in video and leds for users in input. (done by default) 2024-01-20 07:39:09 It turns off the display as well as keeping it off even if a key it pressed. 2024-01-20 07:39:12 gamingirc: No, it has options. 2024-01-20 07:39:33 "setterm --blank poke" turns it on again. 2024-01-20 07:39:43 Essentially just needs write access to these files. 2024-01-20 07:39:52 Not intuitive, but who cares? :) 2024-01-20 07:40:19 ACTION recycles that ctrlaltdelete inittab entry for "setterm --blank poke" ;) 2024-01-20 07:41:05 zcrayfish: Nice :) 2024-01-20 07:41:23 There we go, disabled the wait for boot. Gimmeh tty immeditately please <3 2024-01-20 07:41:52 Only need 3x ttys. :) 2024-01-20 07:42:00 Shouldn't need even that many. 2024-01-20 07:42:36 yeah brightnessctl says it needs write permissions for device files 2024-01-20 07:42:43 yeah, I prefer askfirst or using openvt 2024-01-20 07:44:09 im trying to keep package count low so Ill probably just edit it for perms and drop brightnessctl 2024-01-20 07:45:06 i have no need for a package that just edits a file 2024-01-20 07:45:12 well editing the file doesnt work because the permission change on reboot lol. Guess it's udev then 2024-01-20 07:59:18 gamingirc: My laptop has way too many brightness options. the 1% minimum nudge by percentage wasn't enough. 2024-01-20 07:59:19 bindsym XF86MonBrightnessDown exec brightnessctl set 24- 2024-01-20 07:59:22 bindsym XF86MonBrightnessUp exec brightnessctl set 24+ 2024-01-20 07:59:26 0.1% please 2024-01-20 07:59:57 lol 2024-01-20 08:00:27 gamingirc: If it wasn't a rare key-hold action, I'd probably hack it into sway directly. No need to spawn program tens of times to select the number. :p 2024-01-20 08:00:27 it could be worse 2024-01-20 08:00:58 ACTION growls at swaybar's while-date sleep loop 2024-01-20 08:01:04 whats your max brightness anyways 2024-01-20 08:01:28 24000 2024-01-20 08:01:37 Like I said, 0.1% lol 2024-01-20 08:01:41 lol why are you incrementing by 0.1 2024-01-20 08:01:56 Because that covers the range I want 2024-01-20 08:02:06 that precise? really? 2024-01-20 08:02:12 Yeah 2024-01-20 08:02:15 damn 2024-01-20 08:02:42 I don't even dare to 100% that lol 2024-01-20 08:02:51 yeah too bright 2024-01-20 08:02:58 mines at 25% and it's bright enough 2024-01-20 08:03:23 When I was setting it manually, 1k was my high, not 24k. 2024-01-20 08:03:43 Wait no 2k? 2024-01-20 08:03:50 it preserves battery life 2024-01-20 08:04:04 and the eyeballs 2024-01-20 08:04:16 Yes. 2024-01-20 08:04:34 I actually added a caps lock indicator to swaybar 2024-01-20 08:04:52 definitely was not made for it but it works well enough 2024-01-20 08:04:54 My keyboard has a bright led on the caps lock telling me it is on 2024-01-20 08:05:05 Stupidly distracting. Good thing I never use it. 2024-01-20 08:05:15 Thanks for the obvious notification it was accidentally pressed. 2024-01-20 08:05:35 Yeah it's useful, but I find it even better when it's on the screen 2024-01-20 08:06:04 also mine doesnt have the light 2024-01-20 11:43:20 do you have /usr/bin/[[ l 2024-01-20 11:43:59 as a symlink to busybox 2024-01-20 11:45:03 oh right... 2024-01-20 11:53:34 when is it ever used? when you use dash and similar? 2024-01-20 11:54:01 ash has it as inbuilt 2024-01-20 11:55:55 someone on bash channel is offended by it, says it can only cause confusion 2024-01-20 12:19:17 maybe for compatibility. https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/test.html suggests it was once used 2024-01-20 12:42:34 yeah, that sounds like a POSIX thing. 2024-01-20 12:42:50 just like /bin/pwd 2024-01-20 12:57:05 My main partition has total:221.9G used:132.1G free:55.0G. I'm missing like 40GB here. 2024-01-20 12:57:12 Does btrfs keep some reserved space like ext2? 2024-01-20 12:57:16 Can I reduce it? 2024-01-20 12:57:44 WhyNotHugo: use `compsize` to compute BTRFS usage. `du` is not correct. 2024-01-20 12:58:37 Thanks 2024-01-20 12:59:22 WhyNotHugo: `btrfs fi usage ` will also give you summary usages 2024-01-20 13:00:25 And indeed there is allocated-but-unused space that I think `du` counts as used. 2024-01-20 13:02:22 `btrfs fi usage ` also shows missing space 2024-01-20 13:02:37 Used: 133.80GiB Free: 45.09GiB 2024-01-20 13:03:43 Device size: 221.87GiB, Device allocated: 187.02GiB 2024-01-20 13:03:51 What exactly does this mean? Why is some space unallocated? 2024-01-20 13:05:04 WhyNotHugo: to my understanding, unallocated space is not yet marked off into blocks - unneeded space towards the end of the disk. While "allocated" space is blocked but available to be overwritten, either because it has deleted data on it or holes in the block. 2024-01-20 13:05:35 Ah, right. So the unallocated space will become available if I start to fill up the disk, right? 2024-01-20 13:05:56 WhyNotHugo: exactly, it will start being allocated. But at present you could repartition that much if you needed to. 2024-01-20 13:08:16 As far as the free space computation, I'm not sure. Is your data ratio larger than 1.0? 2024-01-20 13:08:43 It looks like it could be about right for a 2.0 data ratio (RAID1). 2024-01-20 13:10:47 Just a single disk 2024-01-20 13:11:24 Strange; I'm not sure then. 2024-01-20 13:13:42 btw, I use btrbk for automated btrfs snapshot management: https://digint.ch/btrbk/ (it also does transfer/backup, but I don't use that part) 2024-01-20 13:21:06 WhyNotHugo: what does "df -h | grep /tmp" show ? 2024-01-20 13:21:24 also has this filesystem ever been rebalanced? 2024-01-20 13:23:27 vkrishn: what's up with that? 2024-01-20 13:24:25 just a simple experiment, mine shows -- tmpfs 2.0G 2.2M 2.0G 1% /tmp 2024-01-20 13:24:32 here is simple experiment. "cd /tmp; mkfs.ext4 a.img 3G" 2024-01-20 13:24:41 notice how the image is creted beyond /tmp size limit 2024-01-20 13:25:01 created^ 2024-01-20 13:25:43 tmpfs doesn't contribute to the usage of the root filesystem though. 2024-01-20 13:25:50 cd /tmp; ls -lh a.img 2024-01-20 13:26:20 no, its about file size of image that has not content in it 2024-01-20 13:26:24 just a demo 2024-01-20 13:26:36 for undestanding 2024-01-20 13:27:00 ok 2024-01-20 13:34:48 vkrishn: tmpfs 7.7G 40.2M 7.6G 1% /tmp 2024-01-20 13:36:40 WhyNotHugo: i think u got what i was trying to say :), in your test, it would be "mkfs.ext4 a.img 8G", but no need to try 2024-01-20 13:37:52 i used to think something buggy going on ;) 2024-01-20 13:40:03 btrfs-fi's output isn't improving: Device allocated: 221.87GiB, Used: 140.61GiB Free (estimated): 6.69GiB 2024-01-20 13:42:29 one way to test is, create very small partition/volume , fill it dd if=/dev/zero of=a.img , and see how tools report it 2024-01-20 13:42:59 might spot a bug in process 2024-01-20 14:03:10 Hello... does strtof32 function really not exist on musl ? Thanks. 2024-01-20 14:10:14 zcrayfish: sorry for tangent question/method, it did sound unrelated to question asked 2024-01-20 14:11:47 ahmadraniri[m]: I don't know. Maybe this could help? https://musl.libc.org/doc/1.1.24/manual.html 2024-01-20 14:12:04 Near the bottom is the "Programmer's Manual" 2024-01-20 14:16:56 Thanks gamingirc. 2024-01-20 14:49:14 no problem 2024-01-20 15:41:36 vkrishn: isn't that just a sparse file? 2024-01-20 15:43:19 i think(similar to pkgs in mobile roms), did not try to get into detail 2024-01-20 15:43:36 s/pkgs/imgs/ 2024-01-20 15:46:04 coz, i noticed something not consistent in headers with some imgs 2024-01-20 15:46:33 what headers? 2024-01-20 15:47:38 but sparse imgs would not mount, so that that same 2024-01-20 15:47:46 so not that same 2024-01-20 15:48:08 eh? 2024-01-20 15:49:37 headers -> first few bits 2024-01-20 15:49:43 I have no idea what you are talking about 2024-01-20 15:50:18 lets just drop it 2024-01-20 19:51:43 Is alpine feasible to be used as main os for my desktop? Only used it within container-images so far 2024-01-20 19:52:06 I admire the slim footprint and lack of systemd 2024-01-20 19:52:35 in a word, yes, but i guess it depends 2024-01-20 19:52:46 On the other hand I have most doubt in problems due to the lack of glibc 2024-01-20 19:53:22 oo_miguel_oo: what proprietary software do you use? 2024-01-20 19:53:26 oo_miguel_oo: what kind of programs do you run that would require glibc? 2024-01-20 19:53:30 most anything that glibc-dependent can be worked around via flatpak, but whether you want to use flatpak is another matter 2024-01-20 19:53:42 oo_miguel_oo: other option if you want to avoid systemd is devuan 2024-01-20 19:53:43 there is also distrobox 2024-01-20 19:54:13 A collegue complained having problems with the spotify-client. I do not use this. I use nvidia proprietary drivers, zoom and vmware horizon 2024-01-20 19:54:28 yeah proprietary NVIDIA is a no-go 2024-01-20 19:54:33 ouch 2024-01-20 19:54:39 what's your GPU? 2024-01-20 19:54:46 might be the time to go for nouveau , if mine is supported 2024-01-20 19:54:52 did not check.. GTX2080 2024-01-20 19:55:20 I think that one will get good Nouveau support 2024-01-20 19:55:47 electron-based apps can be a pain (such as spotify), because, well, electron. 2024-01-20 19:55:59 but there also: flatpak 2024-01-20 19:56:02 vmware horizon client doesn't work with musl. There is a way to create a flatpak though 2024-01-20 19:56:17 but there isn't a pre-built flatpak 2024-01-20 19:56:30 Yeah my collegue exactly disciverd flatpak due to this spotify issue( (as I say I do not care about spotify myself however) 2024-01-20 19:57:16 probably I might run the few 1-2 problematic apps in containers myself right? 2024-01-20 19:57:32 not sure if this is not what flatpak does anwyay at the bottom 2024-01-20 19:57:43 as long as the kernel suffices 2024-01-20 19:58:02 might could also run in a chroot 2024-01-20 19:58:18 with a glibc based distro 2024-01-20 19:59:34 Ok, let'ssimplify.. and assume I run only opensource stuff. Any other issues you can imagine I might encounter? 2024-01-20 19:59:44 eg. I want xorg 2024-01-20 19:59:59 I run xorg 2024-01-20 20:00:29 setup-xorg-base can install xorg and set it up for some desktops 2024-01-20 20:01:55 I run xorg with IceWM 2024-01-20 20:03:32 maybe some background info to give the complete picuter: I used debian (stable) on my desktop for most of my linux-life and quite like the stability, security, approach to non-free packages, big standard repo, and general ergonomy. Somehow outdated versions (this comes with the stability) and their support for systemd-ONLY bothers me and this is why I started looking for alternatives. 2024-01-20 20:04:22 @kwadroke[m] I want to use xmonad but guess this makes no big difference 2024-01-20 20:04:32 Should not make a difference 2024-01-20 20:05:11 Proabably I should also take a dive in the alpine-repo and check what comes precompiled out of the box 2024-01-20 20:05:45 Only used it for basic contianers, where everything I required was readily available. A deskop setup however might be different 2024-01-20 20:06:07 There is quite some software available 2024-01-20 20:06:40 edge repo has a little more things but it's also a development tree, so things can break. but many people use that for desktop. 2024-01-20 20:07:26 I also do not fear to compile some things myself from upstream source providers,.. however (and this might be the problem) I get recent versions of software as precompiled binaries (eg. blender or krita) 2024-01-20 20:07:44 here I might have to compile myself as well right? 2024-01-20 20:07:51 generally no 2024-01-20 20:08:02 rare cases, maybe. 2024-01-20 20:08:20 oh.. I imagined the are compiled against glibc which renders them unusable 2024-01-20 20:08:21 but in the cases where you would want to, you might have to patch for musl anyhow. 2024-01-20 20:08:22 https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/package/edge/community/x86_64/krita 2024-01-20 20:08:37 https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/package/edge/community/x86_64/blender 2024-01-20 20:10:20 1. good to know there are packages (not sure how recent) 2024-01-20 20:10:20 2. "patch for musl"? = means this is not as simple as recompiling myself ? 2024-01-20 20:10:56 so, the packages you want probably already exist and compiling anything is probably not needed 2024-01-20 20:11:15 oo_miguel_oo: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/blob/master/community/krita/APKBUILD 2024-01-20 20:11:51 but yeah, you can look at the existing APKBUILDs for the packages here and get an idea what the musl patches look like. 2024-01-20 20:12:09 Most software don't need any patches, or some very simple patches 2024-01-20 20:18:43 great, thanks for the references. Overall feeling is that I will give the desktop-setup a try. 2024-01-20 20:21:37 ..the linked "krita" APKBUILD does not look too shocking. I will revert to this, on the go, as I encounter missing packages I need 2024-01-21 00:53:16 hey 2024-01-21 00:53:57 any idea about how is the first time setup for people using/installing qbittorrent-nox-openrc? 2024-01-21 03:00:20 I used the setup-desktop script to install KDE Plasma, and noticed it installed plasma-nm but NetworkManager doesn't seem to be handling Wi-Fi. (doesn't even look as though it's being started). I tried setting up NetworkManager a while back with GNOME and it didn't work at all (followed the wiki page) so if someone could walk me through changing everything to run through NetworkManager I'd appreciate it! 2024-01-21 03:01:55 make sure you have devices being seen and fit with drivers before you look at the applets 2024-01-21 03:02:23 Hm? 2024-01-21 03:02:36 What do you mean? 2024-01-21 03:02:45 if people are using alpine as desktop, why there's no iso for such users? 2024-01-21 03:02:58 Juest: because setup-desktop exists, I suppose? 2024-01-21 03:03:14 hyphae, i mean does ifconfig -a or the equiv "ip" command list/show your wifi etc 2024-01-21 03:03:31 hyphae: try installing a wifi provider such as wpa_supplicant if you're sure you have a wifi device installed on the system 2024-01-21 03:03:35 like look low level before poking the gui 2024-01-21 03:03:52 Juest: WPA Supplicant is installed and starting at boot already 2024-01-21 03:03:54 wpa or iwd would be needed too yes 2024-01-21 03:04:13 hm, drivers? 2024-01-21 03:04:18 Yes, ifconfig shows my wifi 2024-01-21 03:04:21 hyphae, you cant usually have both wpa and networkmanagers services started. one will run the other one as a process vs a service 2024-01-21 03:04:52 tdr: Hm, thanks. wpa seems like it set itself up automagically when I installed Plasma 2024-01-21 03:04:55 (the two services conflict over ownership) 2024-01-21 03:04:57 Should I disable it? 2024-01-21 03:05:12 hyphae, you'd have to see if the other one's serivce is also started 2024-01-21 03:05:20 It definitely isn't 2024-01-21 03:05:24 wifi is semi complex on linux becuase there are 3000 ways to start it 2024-01-21 03:05:32 real, fair enough 2024-01-21 03:05:42 can run and 2024-01-21 03:05:56 :D 2024-01-21 03:06:22 How should I go about this. Enable NM then disable wpa? 2024-01-21 03:06:27 Or the other way around 2024-01-21 03:06:34 you may want to try enabling the nm service and disabling wpa 2024-01-21 03:06:44 but remember what you did so you can undo if it doesnt work 2024-01-21 03:06:56 Enable and start or just enable, then reboot 2024-01-21 03:07:20 stop the one, start nm and see what happens 2024-01-21 03:07:33 if that works, you know what to disable/enable 2024-01-21 03:08:36 Should I add NM to the boot level? 2024-01-21 03:08:41 Since WPA is there right now? 2024-01-21 03:08:54 no 2024-01-21 03:09:06 boot level is really early, default is where this stuff shoudl go 2024-01-21 03:09:11 mk 2024-01-21 03:09:46 think about it from a process view, if ure using it as desktop, are you going to connect to wifi mid boot? 2024-01-21 03:10:00 theres prob no "harm" but also prob no need 2024-01-21 03:10:01 ah, makes sense 2024-01-21 03:10:31 only weirdness is what things try to depend on "net" .. if you dont need it, keep it simple 2024-01-21 03:12:22 starting wpa supplicant up again got me functioning but we're back where we started 2024-01-21 03:12:48 wait, so you turned of wpa and enabled nm or what did you do 2024-01-21 03:12:55 yes, that 2024-01-21 03:13:04 in that order 2024-01-21 03:13:14 with nm running, the gui widget thing in the tray is happy or no? 2024-01-21 03:13:36 now they're both going, which is... bad, but I'm connected enough to be on IRC to fix it 2024-01-21 03:13:54 wait, one usually runs the other as a process 2024-01-21 03:14:06 so the service should be "stopped" but you'd see it in ps output 2024-01-21 03:14:42 I tried stopping it and it gave me the lo thing when I enabled and started NM 2024-01-21 03:14:44 or alpine maybe it starts the service too, but if you had it off and nm started up and then started it, you should be able to disbale wpa and enable nm and let it do that on boot 2024-01-21 03:14:55 so try a reboot? 2024-01-21 03:15:10 did you enable nm serivce and disable wpa? 2024-01-21 03:15:13 yes 2024-01-21 03:15:18 or, not now 2024-01-21 03:15:19 but i did 2024-01-21 03:15:20 sure, reboot 2024-01-21 03:15:29 see how many fires it starts 2024-01-21 03:15:41 i'm going for a record lately 2024-01-21 03:20:59 no luck, set everything back to how it was and we have working wifi but still no NM 2024-01-21 03:21:10 it had that no connections thing in nm again 2024-01-21 03:21:20 i'm so freaking confused 2024-01-21 03:21:39 so stop them both 2024-01-21 03:21:45 any clue in nm logs perhaps? 2024-01-21 03:22:02 stupid question but is there a separate package for wifi on nm? 2024-01-21 03:22:07 tdr: won't that kill my wifi? 2024-01-21 03:22:20 i don't.. have ethernet lmao 2024-01-21 03:23:57 why exactly are we stopping them both? 2024-01-21 03:24:29 because then you can check ps output then to make sure theyre gone 2024-01-21 03:24:37 then start one and see if its the magic one 2024-01-21 03:40:52 No luck 2024-01-21 03:41:13 Either I turn on WPA and disable NM and have shitty wifi or do it the other way around and have no wifi 2024-01-21 08:19:38 weird, there's a plymouth package in the alpine repos, but i don't see a way for it to be hooked up to a system -- no mkinitfs features or module settings 2024-01-21 09:17:42 Hi, I'm trying to setup alpine to launch with a custom kernel in qemu 2024-01-21 09:18:21 this is my approach so far: https://bpa.st/S2SA 2024-01-21 09:18:56 the config I copy into the container there is from the /boot of alpine-standard-3.19.0-x86_64.iso 2024-01-21 09:19:33 I tried it with the unchanged config first, but that one doesn't seem to work if I supply it as -kernel on qemu 2024-01-21 09:20:09 what is the correct approach to build a custom kernel with modifications, if I want to use it along with standard installation? 2024-01-21 09:26:24 if I try to launch qemu with the default kernel it builds (so without changes to the config I get from git), and supply the vmlinuz-lts to my qemu config, it fails to find the disk to boot from 2024-01-21 12:15:49 shouldnt xset -dpms keep monitor alive? 2024-01-21 12:18:20 a DE can override it 2024-01-21 12:24:07 if you're using xscreensaver, it has been compiled for a few releases now to allow browsers and video players to override it as well. 2024-01-21 12:52:02 any idea about how does the first time setup look for people using/installing qbittorrent-nox-openrc? 2024-01-21 12:55:38 how does it look? 2024-01-21 12:59:30 yeah, like do they need to setup the admin password manually? run qbittorrent-nox manually as the user to set a password, is it plug and play? cases of ports in use, etc 2024-01-21 13:15:40 lopid: im not sure, im asking for completeness just to make sure im not seeing unusual things on a different distro where we ported the openrc files 2024-01-21 14:55:48 hello? 2024-01-21 15:00:23 yes 2024-01-21 22:57:52 hmmm, got myself two laptop(old), might begin my al desktop experience soonish 2024-01-21 23:54:56 and then they won't feel as old! 2024-01-21 23:58:33 I don't know what's old to you, but I recently installed alpine on a 16 year old laptop 2024-01-21 23:59:21 and I guess my daily driver is seven years old by now 2024-01-22 00:21:45 Do mainboards exist which do organise the RAM in a sort of RAID0 ? I need much more RAM-bandwidth as my actual alpine-box can do. Around 1TB/s would be sufficent. 2024-01-22 00:22:21 WoW 2024-01-22 00:22:58 Why erveryone buy old computer/laptop to use linux? 2024-01-22 00:23:47 ham5urg: isn't that basically multi-channel? 2024-01-22 00:24:39 pj, Idk, if a multicore CPU is organized in a way that one core can not get all the multi-channel-bandwidth, then it will not help me. 2024-01-22 00:26:19 My problem is a recursive one and not parallel. I was reading about multi-channel but can't find informations about bandwidth per core. 2024-01-22 01:24:16 wow 2024-01-22 01:24:32 do you have change bios? 2024-01-22 01:24:40 or use software change your CPU 2024-01-22 01:53:07 totrototrototro[m]: a lot of people run linux distributions and other free operating systems on modern hardware too but, opposed to non-free OSes, a free OS is often able to run on old hardware, prolonging its use 2024-01-22 01:53:39 see, for example, https://www.both.org/?p=2799 "How Linux rescues slow computers (and the planet)" 2024-01-22 01:54:14 as well as the alpinelinux downstream distribution https://postmarketos.org/ 2024-01-22 01:56:50 ham5urg: NUMA? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-uniform_memory_access 2024-01-22 01:59:13 "totrototrototro: a lot of people..." <- wow thanks 2024-01-22 01:59:20 but i have a questions 2024-01-22 01:59:40 why more people if say old computer or laptop they only buy thinkpad? 2024-01-22 02:11:33 totrototrototro[m], they typically last a long time and were decent hardware when they were new 2024-01-22 02:18:51 "totrototrototro, they typically..." <- But.... 2024-01-22 02:19:01 More time thinkpad is i5 3th cpu 2024-01-22 02:19:40 But it's a good idea, although I'm also curious 2024-01-22 02:20:06 maybe ure just searching use the wrong terms if you always find the same model, there are a ton of thinkpads out there and theyre generally pretty solid systems and easy to work on 2024-01-22 02:26:44 totrototrototro[m], please stop quoting replies. 2024-01-22 02:30:35 oh ok 2024-01-22 02:44:12 docker run -it --rm --platform linux/arm64/v8 alpine:edge 2024-01-22 02:44:13 exec /bin/sh: no such file or directory 2024-01-22 02:44:20 is alpine docker broken? 2024-01-22 02:46:26 hmm actually seems like a docker bug debian's also not working 2024-01-22 03:09:41 one is 1st gen (i5) and second is 4th gen (quad core intel), older ones like centrino (yr 2011) are available but avoiding them now, as kde+browsers might be bit an issue 2024-01-22 03:11:53 WoW 2024-01-22 07:36:59 ACTION finds it rather sad Alpine is primarily recognized as "that container distro", she has enjoyed it well before that was a thing... 2024-01-22 07:37:37 Wish more people would use alpine <3 2024-01-22 07:37:43 Not just in containers. 2024-01-22 07:38:03 there are reasons for that 2024-01-22 07:38:11 A little funny when you have issues with alpine, or more specifically with glibc things, the solution is to run _other_ systems in containers on alpine. 2024-01-22 07:39:51 pj: Specific reasons in mind? 2024-01-22 07:40:57 terrible service management, lack of kernel modules preserving on upgrade, musl not being great when it comes to performance 2024-01-22 07:41:47 sorry, not terrible service management, but rather lack of 2024-01-22 07:42:11 since basic users don't get own slice 2024-01-22 07:43:37 > You can't see earlier messages 2024-01-22 07:43:37 > You don't have permission to view messages from before you joined 2024-01-22 07:43:37 any reason of this setting if the channel is logged and accessible anyway ? 2024-01-22 07:43:53 hey bro 2024-01-22 07:43:57 i have a qeutsions 2024-01-22 07:44:04 how study laptop master? 2024-01-22 07:44:04 Hey 2024-01-22 07:44:11 i want installed alpine-linux 2024-01-22 07:44:19 but i don't know how use laptop 2024-01-22 07:44:25 are you online? bro 2024-01-22 07:44:28 4zv4l: i believe that's matrix bridge limitation 2024-01-22 07:44:35 I want use ACPI kernel 2024-01-22 07:44:38 can help me? 2024-01-22 07:44:56 becuase ACPI Can manager power 2024-01-22 07:45:15 pj: I rather openrc over systemd any day. Speaking of, there were people working on promoting s6 over openrc on alpine. Is that still an active effort? 2024-01-22 07:45:41 I would love to meet those people because I never heard of such effort 2024-01-22 07:45:44 bro i really want learn coding code to aplinelinux 2024-01-22 07:45:49 but is so deffucilt 2024-01-22 07:45:50 can u help me? 2024-01-22 07:45:57 😆 2024-01-22 07:45:57 LeBirsort: stop spamming 2024-01-22 07:46:03 no spam 2024-01-22 07:46:04 you is spam 2024-01-22 07:46:09 i am really need your help 2024-01-22 07:46:16 ikke, clandmeter: ^ 2024-01-22 07:46:21 i am newbie 2024-01-22 07:46:48 why use openrc not runit? 2024-01-22 07:47:15 runit is more barebones 2024-01-22 07:47:31 but more people say runit is best sercurity 2024-01-22 07:47:35 vs openrc saying 2024-01-22 07:47:35 Sofia: well, that is your choice but it also should easily answer your question "why alpine is considered only a container distro" 2024-01-22 07:48:13 LeBirsort: People can say anything. Until explained it has zero value. 2024-01-22 07:48:31 runit is not written in rust, so it's not secure 2024-01-22 07:48:32 https://ariadne.space/2021/03/25/lets-build-a-new-service-manager-for-alpine/ 2024-01-22 07:48:33 ah 2024-01-22 07:48:37 so runit not good 2024-01-22 07:48:37 https://skarnet.com/projects/service-manager.html 2024-01-22 07:48:48 i know google and more company is use C++ 2024-01-22 07:48:48 That isn't what I said 2024-01-22 07:48:54 so rust is best security langague? 2024-01-22 07:49:11 How about you don't look at everything as a binary between "best" and "bad" 2024-01-22 07:49:12 no one can answer that questions, its not a reasonable ask 2024-01-22 07:49:17 Sofia: there have been discussions in the past regarding s6, mostly with skarnet himself 2024-01-22 07:49:18 ACTION notices she probably just ping'd Ariadne. Hello. =^,^= 2024-01-22 07:49:23 middule? 2024-01-22 07:49:36 0% >> 50% << 100%? 2024-01-22 07:49:39 Sofia: yes, it exists but there basically no traction in that department and anytime I tried to incline about the status or push things forward but it ended up nowhere 2024-01-22 07:49:55 Hmm 2024-01-22 07:50:59 LeBirsort, that was a joke. 2024-01-22 07:51:46 I recently installed Alpine Linux on a server for work and even tho I used to try Alpine as a Desktop distro before, after thought now, since the library and apps can be installed with flatpak, what reason could someone have not to use Alpine ? (in a compatibility way I mean, not because they dislike apk or openrc or whatever) 2024-01-22 07:51:58 clandmeter: Don't tell me skarnet has controversy, lol 2024-01-22 07:52:31 also from what I understood making a openrc service, it is seriously "just" a script with callback when doing start/restart/status... right ? 2024-01-22 07:52:37 yes 2024-01-22 07:52:40 Alpine Linux does work well as desktop, but there is some basic software missing, like SMPlayer or Ungoogled Chromium. Flatpaks do help, but the dependency hell (hundreds of megabytes) is not funny when you have slow internet connection. 2024-01-22 07:52:43 Bro 2024-01-22 07:52:55 so what is middule 50% linux distro? 2024-01-22 07:53:03 everyone tell me say alpine no gnu no systemd 2024-01-22 07:53:08 Noone here is your "Bro" 2024-01-22 07:53:45 smplayer -> mpv 2024-01-22 07:53:46 "no gnu" 2024-01-22 07:53:52 built entirely with gnu tools 2024-01-22 07:53:57 pj: thanks ! Still a bit confused with the `requires` etc. but now I got the `its basically just a script with callback` 2024-01-22 07:54:18 gno nu 2024-01-22 07:54:34 My biggest complaint for openrc is the default /etc/inittab :wait entry. Just comment and fixed. <3 2024-01-22 07:54:50 And it's command-line 2024-01-22 07:55:03 Yeah, theres an entry on the wiki to fix that with an async runlevel 2024-01-22 07:55:04 But it works 2024-01-22 07:55:09 one thing I want to understand is why it doesnt use /bin/sh ? why use a different with pre made functions ? 2024-01-22 07:55:21 I set my console on tty12, so getty doesn't overlap with the console. 2024-01-22 07:55:46 Sofia: I didnt learn how to use that yet 😆 2024-01-22 07:55:57 Just let me login ASAP and let DHCP be slow in the background. Fast boot <3 2024-01-22 07:56:09 my biggest complaint for openrc is its existence unfortunately 2024-01-22 07:58:11 Hopefully, Bercot manages to finish s6 in the near future. According to some Gentoo and Artix people, it is lightning-fast and reliable. 2024-01-22 07:58:52 You only need the whole “skarnet-software ecosystem” 2024-01-22 07:59:33 skarnet cloud, now providing s6 as a service 2024-01-22 07:59:38 SaaS 2024-01-22 07:59:42 ^^ 2024-01-22 08:00:19 From what I've read, s6 takes breaking up the binaries into smaller, more focused ones, to the extreme 2024-01-22 08:00:41 wonder if that'll make it a harder to use at first though 2024-01-22 08:02:01 Sounds like the opposite of busybox? 2024-01-22 08:02:05 Tools that do one thing and do it well is not a problem, it's actually an advantage 2024-01-22 08:02:08 But that's not the point 2024-01-22 08:02:48 anyway, time to work, have a good day 2024-01-22 08:02:58 Cya 2024-01-22 08:04:38 I mean just look at this 2024-01-22 08:04:40 https://www.skarnet.org/software/s6/ 2024-01-22 08:04:53 That is, a lot, of programs 2024-01-22 08:05:26 Openrc has like, 4 that I know of 2024-01-22 08:18:52 Hello guys 2024-01-22 08:18:59 so why you really want use OpenRC? 2024-01-22 08:19:09 why you hate systemd not runit 2024-01-22 08:19:40 Who said they hate systemd 2024-01-22 08:19:42 can u tell me what is your de ? or wm 2024-01-22 08:19:58 i think 2024-01-22 08:20:16 gamingirc: some hate systemd ;) 2024-01-22 08:20:23 but 2024-01-22 08:20:28 https://skarnet.org/software/systemd.html 2024-01-22 08:20:28 https://artixlinux.org/faq.php 2024-01-22 08:20:31 so you erveryone no hate systemd? 2024-01-22 08:20:34 there are people in alpine community who hate systemd 2024-01-22 08:20:41 but 2024-01-22 08:20:43 why you use openrc 2024-01-22 08:20:51 because it's the default 2024-01-22 08:21:28 Echoing into chat "Why you hate systemd not runit", is talking to a conglomerate of people with zero direction. 2024-01-22 08:21:59 Try instead asking people their opinion on something before assuming such 2024-01-22 08:22:36 LeBirsort: me personally had really hard times to operate systemd on arm, and it always wanted to not work, and finally we let it go, and replaced with something eating much less resources 2024-01-22 08:24:05 oh 2024-01-22 08:24:45 also, if 1 component in systemd died (well, it did go into infinite loop), the rest of the system became unresponsive 2024-01-22 08:24:54 which is (by me at least) inacceptible 2024-01-22 08:25:01 systemd doesn't support musl 2024-01-22 08:25:15 (it wasn't an alpine system) 2024-01-22 08:25:36 i thanks you all is say correct becuase use arm systemd is diffcult 2024-01-22 08:26:07 well, on arm, you avoid bloatwares if you want a usable system 2024-01-22 08:26:31 and selecting a bloatware for init is... well, not that wise 2024-01-22 08:26:44 generally distro maintainers don't optimise configurations for weaker machines so hardware such as raspberry pi chokes on default systemd config 2024-01-22 08:27:44 probably, but tuning that POS for months led to nothing 2024-01-22 08:27:48 bro 2024-01-22 08:27:49 it was a waste of time 2024-01-22 08:27:50 I remember issues with systemd years ago back when it wasn't as mature as it is now, these days I don't see any faults of the init or service management 2024-01-22 08:28:08 why you all choose alpline? 2024-01-22 08:28:16 arch or gentoo or other distro not good choose? 2024-01-22 08:28:28 or nix-os 2024-01-22 08:28:37 becuase you know alpline install all is commands 2024-01-22 08:28:43 I choose alpine because it does not support systemd at all, and uses musl (which is much smaller than glibc) 2024-01-22 08:28:54 but supports all arch I use 2024-01-22 08:29:14 it could support systemd :> 2024-01-22 08:29:29 archlinux is officially only x86_64 2024-01-22 08:29:47 arch user like use camera shot socks + computer photo is really? 2024-01-22 08:29:49 sadly there are some people who are blinded by emotional response 2024-01-22 08:30:02 me to r/unixsocks see more arch user like that do 2024-01-22 08:30:18 aron: What? o.o 2024-01-22 08:30:31 reddit unixsocks 2024-01-22 08:30:44 there is Arch Linux ARM, but it's a separate project from Arch 2024-01-22 08:31:18 https://www.reddit.com/r/unixsocks/comments/174znde/not_enough_computers_yet/ 2024-01-22 08:31:24 also: a few years ago I booted an arch linux on a licheepi (64 MB ram), and no memory left for user processes, the system(d) took everything 2024-01-22 08:31:39 aron: Huh, I guess so. I recalled 'archlinux arm' or 'alarm'. Don't know how related they are. 2024-01-22 08:31:56 alarm is not *official* 2024-01-22 08:32:03 bro 2024-01-22 08:32:06 or at least, last time I checked it wasn't 2024-01-22 08:32:10 so archlinux is best winner alpline? 2024-01-22 08:32:35 https://archlinuxarm.org/ <- at least it seems to still be alive, if not "official". Hmm 2024-01-22 08:32:52 back to the licheepi: alpine works like a charm :) 2024-01-22 08:33:58 Sofia: like I said, "last time I checked it wasn't", and they confessed this on their index page 2024-01-22 08:34:11 .... 2024-01-22 08:34:14 I guess they don't go by 'alarm' anymore. 2024-01-22 08:34:17 so why you all love alpline linux 2024-01-22 08:34:19 Wonder why. 2024-01-22 08:34:21 alpline linux is good? 2024-01-22 08:35:22 ah 2024-01-22 08:35:24 Alpine is great. Are you drunk? 2024-01-22 08:35:25 ok i ccan tell you 2024-01-22 08:35:32 no 2024-01-22 08:35:35 i no drunk 2024-01-22 08:35:46 becuase have linux master tell me alpine need super hardened 2024-01-22 08:35:52 change kerenel change core 2024-01-22 08:35:52 Sofia: The question we were all wondering 2024-01-22 08:36:01 change intel change cpu chagne gpu 2024-01-22 08:36:14 they ssay need help alpline in 100% max change use 2024-01-22 08:36:47 lol 2024-01-22 08:36:47 Only a system that has been carefully carved is a good system 2024-01-22 08:36:49 why no? 2024-01-22 08:37:03 "why no?" 2024-01-22 08:37:08 yes 2024-01-22 08:37:17 i mean is change alpline everything 2024-01-22 08:37:29 I can't follow you 2024-01-22 08:37:30 Please learn how to spell alpine at the very least. 2024-01-22 08:37:45 Alpine 2024-01-22 08:37:47 heh, this person comes in every so often. Strongly suspected to be a troll. 2024-01-22 08:37:51 NO 2024-01-22 08:37:53 "Alpline" is my favorite distro 2024-01-22 08:38:03 Harmless, but if you're busy it's best to move on. 2024-01-22 08:38:04 I am newbie 2024-01-22 08:38:21 Hmm. Okay. 2024-01-22 08:38:26 wOw 2024-01-22 08:38:50 don't get me wrong, I love a good-natured non-abusive bit of mischief 2024-01-22 08:38:52 you see have people say "Alpline" is my favorite distro 2024-01-22 08:39:05 so really is good linux distro system 2024-01-22 08:39:05 lmfao 2024-01-22 08:39:13 that is linux privacy security master say 2024-01-22 08:39:16 so 100% Right 2024-01-22 08:39:32 I miss the days when being playful online was like this instead of...well...the frog-meme people. 2024-01-22 08:39:40 bro i love you 2024-01-22 08:39:42 tell me 2024-01-22 08:39:49 how alpine linux use ai draw 2024-01-22 08:39:52 what use model? 2024-01-22 08:40:07 i want gentelmen anime draw + noveAI + GPT5 2024-01-22 08:40:10 Yeah SpaceHobo, answer that one 2024-01-22 08:40:17 YES 2024-01-22 08:40:37 bro why you not playing real games 2024-01-22 08:40:57 I play interactive fiction. It's fun! 2024-01-22 08:41:04 Is reall!!!? 2024-01-22 08:41:11 R18 NSFW interactive fiction 2024-01-22 08:41:25 I CAN in steam find that? 2024-01-22 08:41:34 or DLsite 2024-01-22 08:41:54 you have playing AI girls? (STeam minecraft games) 2024-01-22 08:42:03 (I guess you missed the point) 2024-01-22 08:42:17 What u mean Guru 2024-01-22 08:42:35 YOu ARe ALpine Linux Guru 2024-01-22 08:42:40 i am right!? 2024-01-22 08:43:12 definitely 2024-01-22 08:43:22 wow 2024-01-22 08:43:28 so can see your books? 2024-01-22 08:43:45 Lets see those books aron 2024-01-22 08:43:49 Title : Alpine Linux Guru: oPENrc + SYSTEMd is bad questions 2024-01-22 08:43:57 you think that is good? 2024-01-22 08:44:05 SpaceHobo: Playful? I can think of many more fun ways to be playful. 2024-01-22 08:44:07 aron is who 2024-01-22 08:44:09 ACTION is catgirl =^,^= 2024-01-22 08:44:13 rofl 2024-01-22 08:44:16 WOw catgirl 2024-01-22 08:44:18 i want fucked it 2024-01-22 08:44:21 LOL 2024-01-22 08:44:25 pls 2024-01-22 08:44:31 do you like catgirL? 2024-01-22 08:44:43 I always playing mirror games 2024-01-22 08:44:54 That is good R18 nsfw 0.5usd can playing games 2024-01-22 08:45:00 More story 2024-01-22 08:45:16 Bro tell me 2024-01-22 08:45:23 why u not playing alpine linux games? 2024-01-22 08:45:31 Alpine linux system no games you know? 2024-01-22 08:45:39 it's called sealioning 2024-01-22 08:45:49 Sofia: yeah, but I can think of worse ones. 2024-01-22 08:45:55 bRO 2024-01-22 08:45:58 https://blends.debian.org/games/tasks/finest 2024-01-22 08:45:59 sese 2024-01-22 08:46:03 debian have more games 2024-01-22 08:46:06 Alpine linux no games 2024-01-22 08:46:10 so alpine is bad 2024-01-22 08:46:22 They unsupport games 2024-01-22 08:46:24 SpaceHobo: True... 2024-01-22 08:46:29 Yes 2024-01-22 08:46:36 Yes alpine is bad now bounce to another topic again 2024-01-22 08:46:41 bro 2024-01-22 08:46:47 why u want alpine playing game? 2024-01-22 08:46:55 do you know they blackheart? 2024-01-22 08:47:00 newbie can't use GUI install packager 2024-01-22 08:47:07 > has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings 2024-01-22 08:47:09 they hate newbie 2024-01-22 08:47:16 Evidently unsuccessful if that is the objective. Just annoying. 2024-01-22 08:47:26 bro... 2024-01-22 08:47:30 I find it hilarious 2024-01-22 08:47:31 I am really tell u 2024-01-22 08:47:33 bro 2024-01-22 08:47:36 bro 2024-01-22 08:47:37 lmafo 2024-01-22 08:47:39 dude 2024-01-22 08:47:41 ACTION is girl, no bro. 2024-01-22 08:47:42 fucked 2024-01-22 08:47:51 bro i reall want tell u 2024-01-22 08:47:54 Sofia how do you do the * thing 2024-01-22 08:47:58 alpine is black heart SYstem distro linux 2024-01-22 08:48:03 gamingirc: /me 2024-01-22 08:48:08 they hate newbie so no gui install package 2024-01-22 08:48:18 do you know? 2024-01-22 08:48:21 They hate systemd 2024-01-22 08:48:24 so remove systemd 2024-01-22 08:48:29 ACTION laughing at LeBirsort  2024-01-22 08:48:29 gamingirc: Say `/me is a cat` 2024-01-22 08:48:37 ACTION is a cat 2024-01-22 08:48:38 wow 2024-01-22 08:48:40 I love it 2024-01-22 08:48:44 Oh no 2024-01-22 08:48:48 ACTION I am little cute cat anime boy 2024-01-22 08:48:51 Niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 2024-01-22 08:48:51 it's your fault! 2024-01-22 08:48:59 damnit he figured it out too 2024-01-22 08:49:03 ACTION i love cute small little anime cat boy 2024-01-22 08:49:05 this is gooooooooood 2024-01-22 08:49:07 At least this demonstrates LeBirsort isn't just a markov chain bot. 2024-01-22 08:49:13 Bro 2024-01-22 08:49:15 hehe 2024-01-22 08:49:19 I have CC4.0 2024-01-22 08:49:28 + GNU lensecel + MIT lencscel 2024-01-22 08:49:32 So not bot 2024-01-22 08:50:02 bro! tell me, why are you doing this? 2024-01-22 08:50:03 So yo ucan share me say but u need links cc4.0 + GNU + MIT linecsel 2024-01-22 08:50:04 do you know 2024-01-22 08:50:10 oh 2024-01-22 08:50:15 becuase i really is newbie 2024-01-22 08:50:20 i want learn linux 2024-01-22 08:50:23 but more user hate me 2024-01-22 08:50:33 Sofia will teach you 2024-01-22 08:50:38 really!!? 2024-01-22 08:50:41 No no no no 2024-01-22 08:50:42 definitely 2024-01-22 08:50:51 They can use Argon2 LUKS enecrtypt? 2024-01-22 08:50:56 For $100/hr, sure. 2024-01-22 08:50:59 no 2024-01-22 08:50:59 no 2024-01-22 08:51:02 Blackheart 2024-01-22 08:51:08 Only openscoure is real heart 2024-01-22 08:51:14 YOu why no openscoure 2024-01-22 08:51:18 100% FOSS 2024-01-22 08:51:25 only share + free is real heart 2024-01-22 08:51:30 I've never really thought about that, why no opensoure? 2024-01-22 08:51:35 Open source != free support for trolls. 2024-01-22 08:51:36 YES 2024-01-22 08:51:41 no 2024-01-22 08:51:42 nonononon 2024-01-22 08:51:46 U hate EFF 2024-01-22 08:51:49 EFF is 100% opensource 2024-01-22 08:51:56 They will tell u not really 2024-01-22 08:52:10 Do you know linux is 100% Foss They only sure can share code 2024-01-22 08:52:13 The Alpine Linux chat hasn't been this active since i've ever seen it 2024-01-22 08:52:15 No$$ only share code 2024-01-22 08:52:29 gamingirc: Is that a good thing? 2024-01-22 08:52:40 ... 2024-01-22 08:52:41 i hope not 2024-01-22 08:52:44 There are 663 nicks here. 2024-01-22 08:52:48 It is if you have popcorn 2024-01-22 08:52:52 we need 3 more 2024-01-22 08:52:57 Bro 2024-01-22 08:53:04 gamingirc: I have... a box of many packets of popcorn 2024-01-22 08:53:05 gamingirc: share your popcorn or u blackheart 2024-01-22 08:53:06 i think they is not real-human 2024-01-22 08:53:11 lol 2024-01-22 08:53:12 gamingirc: I should cook some. 2024-01-22 08:53:13 YES 2024-01-22 08:53:15 blackheart 2024-01-22 08:53:21 Sofia has all the popcorn 2024-01-22 08:53:23 horder 2024-01-22 08:53:27 ACTION is not human, just cat. 2024-01-22 08:53:41 dont entice LeBirsort 2024-01-22 08:53:52 ACTION Only cute small little cat anime boy is best cute i love  2024-01-22 08:54:09 i am losing it 2024-01-22 08:54:15 ACTION I am pretty Good nice girl 2024-01-22 08:54:19 Broooooo 2024-01-22 08:54:26 May i help u? :)) 2024-01-22 08:54:30 gamingirc: How goes the proton debugging? 2024-01-22 08:54:41 I finished life is strange ep. 1 with crackly audio 2024-01-22 08:54:46 bro 2024-01-22 08:54:47 i know 2024-01-22 08:54:48 On lowest graphics settings. 2024-01-22 08:54:54 u say is duckdebugging 2024-01-22 08:54:55 Right 2024-01-22 08:55:00 Oh yeah i forgot to try Dota 2024-01-22 08:55:11 Natively or in proton? 2024-01-22 08:55:16 both 2024-01-22 08:55:17 I didn't try dota 2 with proton. 2024-01-22 08:56:32 BRO 2024-01-22 08:56:35 why you playing DOTA 2 2024-01-22 08:56:37 to play LOL 2024-01-22 08:56:44 lUAGH OF lUAGH IS BEST games 2024-01-22 08:56:48 100% FOSS opensrouce 2024-01-22 08:56:52 YOu can't playing dota 2 2024-01-22 08:56:57 DOTA 2 NOT really DOta games 2024-01-22 08:57:11 BLizzard have a DOTA gAMES i thinkyou can playin that 2024-01-22 08:57:30 ACTION btw proton is good software 2024-01-22 08:57:50 LeBirsort: what do you think about steam 2024-01-22 08:59:18 LINUS SAY STEAM FUCK 2024-01-22 08:59:24 so STEAM is bad company 2024-01-22 08:59:31 LINUS only playing windows XP 2024-01-22 08:59:42 becuase LINUS REMOVE linux say linux is trash 2024-01-22 09:00:24 gamingirc: bro i have a dream 2024-01-22 09:00:28 Linus removed linux? Damn, guess we gotta go home now 2024-01-22 09:00:33 yes 2024-01-22 09:00:52 Linus in github remvove linux say use windows xp 2024-01-22 09:02:02 bro 2024-01-22 09:02:07 Sofia: You heard the man, we gotta user windows xp now 2024-01-22 09:02:07 why u 24/7 time in IRC? 2024-01-22 09:02:15 LeBirsort, new to or not, mind your mouth and learn that distro tagged channels arent for random rants. 2024-01-22 09:02:34 Oh 2024-01-22 09:02:48 Lets see what he does now 2024-01-22 09:05:28 gamingirc: if you have luck, installs winxp, and won't find any working irc client :P 2024-01-22 09:07:05 Ah I use webchat anyways. If I could get a browser that supports Javascript, it might work. 2024-01-22 09:08:35 "I often reflect that if 'privileges' had been called 'responsibilities' or 'duties', I would have saved thousands of hours explaining to people why they were only gonna get them over my dead body." -- Lee K. Gleason, VMS sysadmin 2024-01-22 09:08:36 nah, that will not work in a browser that you can install on winxp 2024-01-22 09:08:38 you think is really? 2024-01-22 09:08:43 aron: I like this one re XP. 2024-01-22 09:09:24 Sofia: what do you mean? 2024-01-22 09:09:47 With luck, no IRC client. We get the quiet back. <3 2024-01-22 09:09:56 ah, IC :P 2024-01-22 09:10:05 Yes. IRC <3 2024-01-22 09:10:41 ACTION afk for a bit. ttyl o/ 2024-01-22 09:10:53 Cya 2024-01-22 09:11:17 Yeah but if you need an ego boost, at least you get to have stupid- I mean LeBirsort walk through the door every once in awhile 2024-01-22 09:11:49 https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/developer-duties.en.html 2024-01-22 09:11:50 i see this 2024-01-22 09:12:33 thanks you gamingirc: ty your meeasge 2024-01-22 09:13:31 first time I see him 2024-01-22 09:13:55 I doubt it 2024-01-22 09:14:03 * i doubt it will be the last 2024-01-22 09:14:33 I'm afraid so 2024-01-22 09:14:49 Bro 2024-01-22 09:14:50 i love you 2024-01-22 09:14:55 why!!! 2024-01-22 09:15:28 I've actually been here many times 2024-01-22 09:15:42 But the people here are very strange and like to talk about threat models 2024-01-22 09:16:47 Well, Alpine is good for security 2024-01-22 09:17:38 yes, and super small, default installation has the bare minimum, so you can build your system you want 2024-01-22 09:17:57 instead of removing what you don't need, you install what you need 2024-01-22 09:18:39 I find it's much faster to just install what I need compared to figuring out what bloat I can cut off without the system breaking 2024-01-22 09:18:47 yeppp 2024-01-22 09:25:14 i think me wrong 2024-01-22 09:25:38 Wrong about what 2024-01-22 09:25:56 becuase u talk why need install minimal install 2024-01-22 09:26:09 i before think no help newbie 2024-01-22 09:26:24 but now u say i think u is right 2024-01-22 09:33:06 Steam on alpine may be a little borked, but at least I have SuperTuxKart 2024-01-22 09:35:00 Nice! 2024-01-22 09:35:06 Bro do you want try btrfs? 2024-01-22 09:35:14 I am using btrfs 2024-01-22 09:35:23 Nice you is backup master 2024-01-22 09:35:52 how you fast your alpine system? like settings 2024-01-22 09:36:12 Very fast 2024-01-22 09:36:21 Start system speed? 2024-01-22 09:36:38 if i no full-encrypt my system only 20~30s start 2024-01-22 09:36:38 Quick 2024-01-22 09:36:42 Good 2024-01-22 09:37:41 Maybe i can't try other linux distro 2024-01-22 09:37:52 becuase me lazy 2024-01-22 09:46:55 Does Alpine support changing /sbin/init from busybox to openrc-init? Any problems? benefits? 2024-01-22 09:49:30 Bro 2024-01-22 09:49:32 i want ask u 2024-01-22 09:49:38 You think what is life? 2024-01-22 09:49:52 what is your time today? 2024-01-22 10:03:11 Hi all :-) 2024-01-22 10:03:44 Hello 2024-01-22 10:10:11 oh, it's not installed 2024-01-22 10:34:31 HEy bro 2024-01-22 10:34:41 do you want learn real alpine linux? 2024-01-22 10:34:53 You have to believe you can do it yourself 2024-01-22 10:35:01 You have to tell yourself you can 2024-01-22 10:35:21 The people here are friendly and although they love using ALpine, remember, know that you can learn and improve on your own 2024-01-22 10:35:23 Okay? 2024-01-22 10:43:18 ACTION hopes somercet didn't just leave because the spam.. 2024-01-22 10:43:48 Oh Sofia, you know you like the inspiration quote about learning alpine lol 2024-01-22 10:53:17 gamingirc: I don't need shallow "inspirational" quote nonsense. 2024-01-22 10:53:38 ACTION needs shower after her walk. Idle again o/ 2024-01-22 10:55:47 Morning. 2024-01-22 11:13:31 Bro 2024-01-22 11:13:38 u need know 2024-01-22 11:13:43 linux user no real-freinds 2024-01-22 11:13:59 becuase freinds is say remove = remove no people care you 2024-01-22 11:14:17 real-freinds = you 2024-01-22 11:14:25 okay? 2024-01-22 11:21:58 huh 2024-01-22 11:22:24 BRO 2024-01-22 11:22:26 no wait 2024-01-22 11:22:33 you more time is wait what you know? 2024-01-22 11:22:37 wait is your life 2024-01-22 11:22:42 to playing your gaming 2024-01-22 11:22:47 no wait pls 2024-01-22 11:23:07 if you wait freinds if you wait software if you wait download 2024-01-22 11:23:14 more wait will kill you you know? 2024-01-22 11:23:42 you have young but i dont want see you wait to old years not really you 2024-01-22 11:24:06 If you regret it, there is no rush. 2024-01-22 11:24:07 okay 2024-01-22 11:24:13 LeBirsort: Please stop spamming this channel. If you want to discuss on-topic Alpine related things you are free to stay, but stop spamming non-sense 2024-01-22 11:24:50 Is there like, an #alpine-linux-offtopic channel, similar to #postmarketos-offtopic? 2024-01-22 11:25:07 If not, perhaps now is the time to consider managing one? 2024-01-22 11:25:12 yes, there is 2024-01-22 11:25:13 SpaceHobo: #alpine-offtopic 2024-01-22 11:25:41 Ah, perfect! Well then I think that's a sensible outlet for...whatever this is. 2024-01-22 11:26:13 + 2024-01-22 11:26:14 Guess it will have to be a mystery for me, I set my client to ignore tor users years ago and am very happy for it. 2024-01-22 11:27:35 It is hilarious, but your humor is likely different than mine 2024-01-22 11:29:11 lol they don't even keep logs for offtopic 2024-01-22 11:30:00 too bad 2024-01-22 11:32:13 zcrayfish: You see my messages correct? 2024-01-22 11:33:04 yes because you don't have tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net in your host 2024-01-22 11:33:05 You just had me verify my IP as visible to oftc is indeed a tor exit node. 2024-01-22 11:33:34 Because authenticated or did I ask for a user cloak or something? 2024-01-22 11:41:00 :) 2024-01-22 11:41:47 probably the auth 2024-01-22 11:48:56 :) 2024-01-22 11:49:04 Hopefully they aren't just figuring out the authentication... 2024-01-22 11:49:16 If so, I'm sorry. <3 2024-01-22 12:38:56 Where does alpine saves the repositories? 2024-01-22 12:39:11 ACTION wants to mount his local repo in docker so that it's using the packages 2024-01-22 12:45:01 KREYREN_oftc: You want a package cache? 2024-01-22 12:45:20 Sofia, more like development environment that uses local aports as inputs 2024-01-22 12:45:32 so that i can properly package freecad 2024-01-22 12:46:36 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Local_APK_cache <- probably relevant. 2024-01-22 12:47:32 IIUC a key detail for why apk is so fast is that it can download to memory, without even writing the package to disk before verifying and extracting. Would appreciate if someone can verify this? 2024-01-22 12:48:13 is apk really that fast? I think the real thing is that the competition is SLOW. 2024-01-22 12:48:15 \o/ 2024-01-22 12:49:29 zcrayfish: Competition is indeed just slow... 2024-01-22 12:51:23 https://invidious.slipfox.xyz/watch?v=sIG2P9k6EjA - https://invidious.slipfox.xyz/vi/sIG2P9k6EjA/maxres.jpg (Thumbnail seems to verify) 2024-01-22 12:51:34 so just setup-apkcache and point it to my local repo? 2024-01-22 12:51:49 bcs ain't sure 2024-01-22 12:51:49 Something like that. 2024-01-22 12:52:00 ACTION is half asleep. Might be missing something from your question. 2024-01-22 12:52:40 KREYREN_oftc: if you already *have* a local repo (where you build packages into), then just list it's path in /etc/apk/repositories 2024-01-22 12:52:43 i am doing `docker run -it -v path/to/your/aports:/src/aports --rm --platform linux/arm64/v8 alpine:edge` so i have my local aports repo used for contributions in /src/aports in docker and i want the apk in docker to use the inputs from there 2024-01-22 12:52:51 so e.g. i change package in the local repo -> It should use that 2024-01-22 12:53:04 s/it's/its/ 2024-01-22 12:53:05 aron, oh thanks! 2024-01-22 12:53:41 Optimizing software is actually kind of fun. It's crazy to see how something I wrote initially, could be completely reworked to be efficient (eg: swaybar). 2024-01-22 12:53:56 note that, you have to put the repo root into that file 2024-01-22 12:54:16 after the path, apk will append the arch name 2024-01-22 12:54:27 (which is a directory) 2024-01-22 13:00:47 Does anyone of you know which tool is used on alpine's gitlab for mr-stale bot ? 2024-01-22 13:00:57 perhaps ikke, clandmeter ? 2024-01-22 13:02:17 aports-qa-bot 2024-01-22 13:05:05 Thank you very much ikke 2024-01-22 15:13:52 Just to be sure, MR names don't have to follow the same guidelines as commit names, right? Wondering if that's why mine hasn't been handled yet or just the assignee being busy (or something else). 2024-01-22 15:15:08 NepNep[m]: which MR would that be? 2024-01-22 15:15:34 https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/merge_requests/59046 2024-01-22 15:16:12 yeah, the assignee ( synapse package maintainer ) would have to give an ack on it 2024-01-22 15:16:36 however this looks simple enough i guess 2024-01-22 15:16:39 makes sense 2024-01-22 15:17:03 ah, no, i missed that it's also an upgrade, and 3 minor versions at that 2024-01-22 15:17:14 better wait for the maintainer so they can triple check everything 2024-01-22 15:18:05 understandable, just wanted to know if i did something wrong 2024-01-22 15:18:29 this only prints the first line (file has 6 lines), and no added lines: tail -qf lala|grep -v -- '-!-'|cat 2024-01-22 15:21:04 grep --line-buffered 2024-01-22 15:21:44 (in glibc land you also have `stdbuf -o0 this | stdbuf -o0 that | ...`) 2024-01-22 15:25:58 oh, does awk have something similar? 2024-01-22 15:27:24 hmm, depends on which awk I guess; it seems gawk at least always flushes its output after every print 2024-01-22 16:11:44 wtf, stdbuf... uses LD_PRELOAD 2024-01-22 16:12:04 so it does not work with statically linked binaries 2024-01-22 16:12:54 how else would it work really 2024-01-22 16:13:02 stdout buffering is internal to the program 2024-01-22 16:13:17 ah well I guess the env vars could be part of libc directly 2024-01-22 16:13:28 yeah now that I think about it 2024-01-22 16:14:01 yeah, that's how I'd have EXPECTED it to work 2024-01-22 16:14:12 there's lots of other secret env vars, so why not for this too 2024-01-22 16:15:48 plus, line buffering is not TOTALLY internal - e.g. many programs line buffer only when writing to a tty 2024-01-22 16:16:38 and yet I don't see programs call isatty() 2024-01-22 16:16:44 Huh. https://hmarr.com/blog/how-stdbuf-works/ 2024-01-22 16:16:44 Never knew of this program. 2024-01-22 16:17:27 the libc calls isatty() for them, and that's still internal to the program 2024-01-22 16:17:39 I meant the buffer mode is not handed down from the kernel as part of the fd 2024-01-22 16:18:37 > Given that stdout is often automatically set to line buffered mode when using a TTY, I had assumed that stdbuf would trick the program it runs into thinking its output was a TTY. It turns out that’s not the case. 2024-01-22 16:18:47 > So what does it do? In short, it uses LD_PRELOAD to inject a sneaky shared library into the program that changes the buffering mode of the stream when the program starts up. Here’s a quick walk through the code in stdbuf that makes that happen. 2024-01-22 16:18:56 ACTION wonders how well the former would work in practice here. 2024-01-22 16:19:21 And if so, would that default for glibc also translate to musl? 2024-01-22 16:19:42 I *think* the `unbuffer` tool does exaclty that – creates a pty pair and runs the process with its stdout attached to the pty 2024-01-22 16:19:50 Or why not just add an env var for musl to interpret itself. 2024-01-22 16:22:08 ah, I see 2024-01-22 16:22:08 newfstatat(1, "", {st_mode=S_IFIFO|0600, st_size=0, ...}, AT_EMPTY_PATH) = 0 2024-01-22 16:22:18 it first stats, and only calls isatty if stat says it is a char dev 2024-01-22 16:22:29 that's why I didn't see the isatty in strace 2024-01-22 16:22:29 divVerent: musl do this by calling __syscall(SYS_ioctl, fd, TIOCGWINSZ, &wsz) 2024-01-22 16:22:52 src/stdio/__fdopen.c 2024-01-22 16:22:58 /* Activate line buffered mode for terminals */ 2024-01-22 16:23:04 > If the program doens’t use libc for standard IO, calling setvbuf(3) won’t have any effect. For instance Go doesn’t use libc for IO, so stdbuf won’t affect most Go programs. 2024-01-22 16:23:15 Good to know that. 2024-01-22 16:23:17 divVerent: there's no isatty syscall at all 2024-01-22 16:23:46 yeah 2024-01-22 16:23:47 ioctl(1, TCGETS, {c_iflag=ICRNL|IXON|IUTF8, c_oflag=NL0|CR0|TAB0|BS0|VT0|FF0|OPOST|ONLCR, c_cflag=B38400|CS8|CREAD, c_lflag=ISIG|ICANON|ECHO|ECHOE|ECHOK|IEXTEN|ECHOCTL|ECHOKE, ...}) = 0 2024-01-22 16:23:49 there is the isatty 2024-01-22 16:23:56 that doesn't come when piping strace to |& less 2024-01-22 16:23:56 yes, indeed, isatty is not a syscall, it's a libc function 2024-01-22 16:24:03 in glibc it's https://paste.rs/FCO8I 2024-01-22 16:24:05 because then we don't even have a char dev in the first pl;ace 2024-01-22 16:24:36 and yeah I guess libc does a fstat first... 2024-01-22 16:24:45 didn't dig into the source code regarding that 2024-01-22 16:25:00 no, it does not fstat it 2024-01-22 16:25:12 basically isatty calls "some random ioctl for ttys" 2024-01-22 16:25:15 and returns true if it worked 2024-01-22 16:25:36 musl isatty(): return !__syscall(SYS_ioctl, fd, TIOCGWINSZ, &wsz); 2024-01-22 16:25:44 so it is consistent 2024-01-22 16:25:55 but the buffer logic FIRST calls stat 2024-01-22 16:25:57 with fdopen 2024-01-22 16:26:22 see _IO_file_doallocate 2024-01-22 16:26:39 that's dumb IMHO, unless calling the ioctl on a non-chardev is harmful 2024-01-22 16:27:05 oh, the point of the stat is that they need the stat anyway if it is NOT a tty 2024-01-22 16:27:09 TIOCGWINSZ seems to be harmless 2024-01-22 16:27:16 to get a "good" default buffer size from the block size 2024-01-22 16:27:27 it will return error 2024-01-22 16:28:24 they could skip that, but then have an extra syscall when writing to disk, and one less when writing to a tty 2024-01-22 16:28:27 but arguably writing to disk is more performance important than writing to tty 2024-01-22 16:28:39 I don't see where musl would stat the file to get a "good" buffer size 2024-01-22 16:29:19 maybe it doesn't and just has a hardcoded default 2024-01-22 16:30:03 yes, it is hardcoded 2024-01-22 22:20:32 I tried to mount a luks encrypted USB stick. I can do a 'luksopen' but a 'mount /dev/mapper/enc_stick' fails with: invalid argument 2024-01-22 22:21:25 * do a successful 'luksopen ...' 2024-01-22 22:21:51 ham5urg: so what was the full "mount" command used? 2024-01-22 22:22:32 minimal: mount /dev/mapper/enc_stick /mnt 2024-01-22 22:23:14 and /dev/mapper/enc_stick exists? 2024-01-22 22:23:25 I booted alpine from installation media. The built in HD is over. 2024-01-22 22:23:32 minimal, yes. 2024-01-22 22:23:47 Do I need to install some package? 2024-01-22 22:24:01 and the full "cryptsetup luksOpen" command you used? 2024-01-22 22:24:54 cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdb enc_stick 2024-01-22 22:25:49 try "-v" with mount for more info? 2024-01-22 22:26:14 what is the fs type used on enc_stick? 2024-01-22 22:26:26 ext4? something else? 2024-01-22 22:27:12 Busybox mount doesn't automatically load any required filesystem kernel module 2024-01-22 22:27:26 I did a mount -vvv and it tells me '...ext4... Invalid argument' 2024-01-22 22:27:56 is the ext4 kernel module loaded? 2024-01-22 22:28:25 vfat, squashfs, ... are all invalid arguments. 2024-01-22 22:28:35 lsmod shows ext4 and vfat 2024-01-22 22:28:54 add "-t ext4" to mount command? 2024-01-22 22:29:04 assuming it is an ext4 fs 2024-01-22 22:30:43 I tried vfat, ext4 and ntfs just in case. All modules loaded. 2024-01-22 22:30:56 did you try the "-t ext4" option? 2024-01-22 22:31:28 you mean you don't know which fs type is on the USB stick? 2024-01-22 22:32:14 "blkid"? 2024-01-22 22:32:20 I tried -t ext4 as well as -t vfat 2024-01-22 22:32:51 Just in case to be sure that I recalled wrongly 2024-01-22 22:32:54 why? there's no point trying random values, you need to use the correct one 2024-01-22 22:33:24 *I didn't recalled... 2024-01-22 22:33:33 "lsblk"? 2024-01-22 22:33:40 ham5urg, showing the actual command would help 2024-01-22 22:33:49 (instead of partial “yes I did it”) 2024-01-22 22:36:38 Sorry for not writing the commands, but my laptop's fs just got destroyed (it was a devuan testing). I have to type on my mobile. Now I want to use this 'chance' to switch to Alpine. 2024-01-22 22:37:19 I did a mistake, the stick was formatted with exfat X-/ thanks minimal, blkid showed me the fs 2024-01-22 22:38:36 so "modprobe exfat" and try the mount again 2024-01-22 22:39:24 :) 2024-01-22 22:39:28 Yes, I already did 2024-01-22 22:40:52 RH changed the fs of Debian and a update propagated it to testing. That was the end. 2024-01-23 00:12:44 as far as i've seen, efistub support has been so-so on the firmwares 2024-01-23 00:12:53 has issues been observed here about it? 2024-01-23 00:24:01 I use EFISTUB just fine 2024-01-23 00:26:16 efistub on linux anywhere should be "just fine" 2024-01-23 00:26:27 well on platforms that support efi 2024-01-23 00:39:31 if only all efis were the same 2024-01-23 00:42:38 most UEFI's are basically the same, i.e. based on EDK II 2024-01-23 00:47:45 based upon edk2, perhaps 2024-01-23 00:48:36 invoked: I just said that 2024-01-23 00:49:23 right, but what people actually get varies 2024-01-23 00:51:19 ACTION misses the difference between what I said and what invoked said 2024-01-23 00:52:07 EDK II and edk2, very different 2024-01-23 00:52:19 the point is, the behavior is not the same everywhere 2024-01-23 00:53:03 should work yes, but sometimes is not what you expect, and does not work as expected 2024-01-23 00:54:14 I did say "*basically* the same", I didn't say "the same" 2024-01-23 00:54:30 I chose the word "basically" on purpose 2024-01-23 00:54:52 you don't need to take everything as a challenge, minimal 2024-01-23 00:56:06 I do n't, am just confused when I say something and then you say basically the same thing but act as though you said something different 2024-01-23 00:56:55 okay. i just replied with a caveat, it wasn't an argument. 2024-01-23 04:22:07 YOoooo 2024-01-23 04:22:17 sxmo OS is Alpline linux? 2024-01-23 04:22:19 https://sxmo.org/ 2024-01-23 04:22:29 like any other Alpine Linux machine adds a tremendous amount of value. Leaving it in my pocket and using it from my computer is very convenient. I don't have to treat my phone like an alien in my otherwise uniform computing setup anymore.” 2024-01-23 04:22:38 website say Sxmo os is alpline linux 2024-01-23 04:22:43 is really? 2024-01-23 04:23:01 — Drew Devault, FLOSS pioneer and creator of Sourcehut and Sway 2024-01-23 04:24:21 ACTION hello ? 2024-01-23 04:24:28 ACTION alpline linux is Sxmo OS? 2024-01-23 04:41:57 kqpokewpoqewk09: based on the site, Sxmo isn't an operating system itself, it's just a collection of tools that form an "environment" 2024-01-23 04:42:07 they name alpine linux or postmarketos as base OS's 2024-01-23 06:27:55 ey 2024-01-23 06:27:57 hey 2024-01-23 06:28:08 hint: most flaws will be because of /etc*conf and then of linker mismatches where their package rebuild groups do not match alpine's. some things get left out or built in the wrong order and cruft builds over time. some bash loops over /usr/{lib,bin} with ldd would surely yield exploits. 2024-01-23 06:28:10 how can i do? 2024-01-23 06:31:01 Sxmo is just the interface. Like phosh or Plasma Mobile. 2024-01-23 06:31:21 user_: It's unclear to me what you are asking 2024-01-23 06:38:38 ikke: "I often reflect that if 'privileges' had been called 'responsibilities' or 'duties', I would have saved thousands of hours explaining to people why they were only gonna get them over my dead body." -- Lee K. Gleason, VMS sysadmin 2024-01-23 06:38:41 how you think text? 2024-01-23 06:42:41 user_: 3 important components of security are: confidentiality, integrity and availability. Most people only focus on the first 2 and forget the last one 2024-01-23 08:21:13 user_: You do not do a very good job of masking the face that you aren't LeBirsort 2024-01-23 09:07:38 Wow!!! gamingirc: why you know me 2024-01-23 10:23:47 Why ruin the reputation of all the innocent tor users? :( 2024-01-23 10:26:00 Could be worse lol. Good thing IRC does not support images. 2024-01-23 10:27:18 gamingirc: 🐱 <3 2024-01-23 10:27:55 Except, catmojis 2024-01-23 10:28:50 ACTION should get a colour-enabled emoji font for her terminal; wonders if foot would accept that. 2024-01-23 10:29:37 Not the emojis in the terminal! The horror. 2024-01-23 10:34:18 gamingirc: Want something beautiful? 2024-01-23 10:34:38 Definitely 2024-01-23 10:34:50 https://github.com/charmbracelet/bubbletea/tree/master/examples 2024-01-23 10:36:35 https://github.com/charmbracelet/gum <- if you want to write shell instead of Go. :p 2024-01-23 10:37:54 That does look really good. Though, when it comes to scripts I write, I tend to do zero front-end work 2024-01-23 10:38:54 gamingirc: Good thing gum lets you be lazy and get pretty. :) 2024-01-23 10:43:22 There was one design choice I saw someone making for a terminal application: A progress bar 2024-01-23 10:44:17 They wanted to show the progress of the application in a cool manner, so they had to do some thinking on how to implement it (because it's harder than it looks); but i was like, dude just put the percentage as a two digit integer, who cares about the funky progress bar 2024-01-23 10:45:05 I'd much rather someone cut corners on the front end than cut corners on the back end 2024-01-23 10:54:59 This is why we have libraries :p 2024-01-23 10:58:08 gum is p.boss 2024-01-23 11:12:46 can sed highligh a word by search replace with color codes? 2024-01-23 11:13:16 Pretty sure but grep does that? 2024-01-23 11:13:49 gnu grep yeah! 2024-01-23 11:15:08 i got awk to do it, just wanted to see if sed can do it too 2024-01-23 11:16:08 echo test|sed 's/te/\\033[91m te \\033[0m /g' 2024-01-23 11:18:10 ~ $ echo test|sed 's/te/'$'\033''[91m te '$'\033''[0m /g' 2024-01-23 11:18:12 te st 2024-01-23 11:19:09 frag: ^ 2024-01-23 11:22:15 ah cool, that works in ash, but not in dash, why doesnt \1 work here? 2024-01-23 11:24:14 ACTION doesn't even remember how she knows the $'\0' trick. :) 2024-01-23 11:24:28 Such an esoteric language. 2024-01-23 11:25:40 Have seen way too many do things like "$(printf ..)" just for these. 2024-01-23 11:26:10 ah maybe thats an solution! 2024-01-23 11:27:18 *a 2024-01-23 11:28:24 ~ $ echo $'\033' | xxd -p 2024-01-23 11:28:26 1b0a 2024-01-23 11:28:28 ~ $ x=$(echo 1b0a | xxd -r -p) 2024-01-23 11:28:30 ~ $ echo "$x[91mred$x[0m" 2024-01-23 11:28:32 red 2024-01-23 11:30:20 Wait just 1b needed, not the 0a 2024-01-23 11:30:50 ~ $ printf "\x1b[91mred \x1b[0m\n" 2024-01-23 11:30:52 red 2024-01-23 11:32:02 frag: Good luck with portable code. <3 2024-01-23 11:33:07 ACTION wonders what shellcheck thinks 2024-01-23 11:34:46 > ^-- SC3003 (warning): In POSIX sh, $'..' is undefined. 2024-01-23 11:34:58 https://www.shellcheck.net/wiki/SC3003 2024-01-23 11:35:20 Lovely 2024-01-23 11:35:30 frag: printf is recommended. :) 2024-01-23 11:36:17 frag: As I understand dash is more POSIX sh compliant. 2024-01-23 11:36:29 this works: echo test|sed "s/\(te\)/$(printf "\033[91m")\1$(printf "\033[0m\n")/g" 2024-01-23 11:36:31 Not surprised ash accepts more. 2024-01-23 11:37:09 ACTION recommends setting these to variables so you can do "${s_red}blah${s_reset}" 2024-01-23 11:37:14 yes i try to stay posix :] 2024-01-23 11:38:04 I really don't like posix. When I write shell scripts, I do tend to throw them at shellcheck if I care to share them. 2024-01-23 11:38:35 May as well target the common denominator. 2024-01-23 11:38:47 Rather just not write shell. :) 2024-01-23 11:41:13 just want it to be easy/reliable :] 2024-01-23 11:41:56 busybox grep + sed for color is not too slow tbh, probably too hacky tho.. 2024-01-23 11:49:37 s_red=$(printf '\x1b[91m'); s_reset=$(printf '\x1b[0m'); sed "/test/s/^/${s_red}/;s/\$/${s_reset}/" 2024-01-23 11:49:44 If you want to highlight the selected lines. 2024-01-23 11:49:56 Seems to have weird buffering behavior however. 2024-01-23 11:51:29 esc=$(printf '\x1b'); s_red="$esc[91m"; s_reset="$esc[0m"; # if printf isn't builtin, better to reduce the calls. 2024-01-23 12:07:15 kinda nice how busybox grep -h works to show help, not so with gnugrep 2024-01-23 12:10:48 What is special about its usage string? 2024-01-23 12:11:35 hm? 2024-01-23 12:12:09 Greetings. I wanted to install Alpine on a MacBook Pro from 2010, however the Mac's boot selection menu completely freezes when the install medium is inserted, making me unable to boot on it. Never had this issue before and it only happens with Alpine's iso. Tried both Standard and Extended, same result :/ 2024-01-23 12:12:25 Oh you mean how gnugrep doesn't give you help with -h, only with --help? 2024-01-23 12:13:42 Don't know about the boot issues but you can boot any linux distro; alpine is pretty easy to install from there? 2024-01-23 12:14:58 sofia yeah 2024-01-23 12:15:19 There is a grub based project intended to scan for boot options to boot into whatever you want, which might work? 2024-01-23 12:19:12 I might try to install alpine from arch if that's possible. I can boot to arch without issues. Never heard about the grub based tool though 2024-01-23 12:19:58 Is that even possible to install alpine inside chroot? 2024-01-23 12:20:03 https://www.supergrubdisk.org/super-grub2-disk/ 2024-01-23 12:20:14 *from chroot 2024-01-23 12:20:36 Tuturu: I installed my current alpine system in a chroot on my previous system, in a btrfs subvol, and now dual boot between the two systems, which can chroot into the other. :) 2024-01-23 12:20:42 So very yes. 2024-01-23 12:21:05 Tuturu: I'd try this first ^^ 2024-01-23 12:21:17 The supergrub? 2024-01-23 12:21:41 Yes 2024-01-23 12:21:56 Ok. I'll try once I get home. ty :> 2024-01-23 12:22:03 If that boots, it should find and boot your alpine. 2024-01-23 12:26:07 Tuturu: Good luck. =^,^= 2024-01-23 12:28:00 Tuturu: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux_in_a_chroot 2024-01-23 12:29:26 Note this doesn't include the full base system, no kernel, and such. If you install in a virtual machine you can look at the base /etc/apk/world file and copy that over and nudge apk to match it with `apk upgrade -Ua` 2024-01-23 12:30:53 Hi ikee: 2024-01-23 12:30:59 your mean is CIA? 2024-01-23 12:31:19 oh no 2024-01-23 12:31:28 CIA (Confidentiality Intergirty Availabillty) 2024-01-23 12:31:39 i think you mean is say Threat modeling 2024-01-23 12:31:59 gamingirc: what happen you? 2024-01-23 12:32:17 Im watching the smartest tor user ever in chat 2024-01-23 12:32:42 yes 2024-01-23 12:32:55 you think alpine linux have what CIA? 2024-01-23 12:33:40 You're gonna have to ask Sofia about that one 2024-01-23 12:34:38 what 2024-01-23 12:35:59 Sofia: ? 2024-01-23 12:36:28 I spent almost five hours trying to understand the concept of the CIA. 2024-01-23 12:39:35 Huh. Attempted to create a virtual machine to rip the /etc/apk/world from it for tuturu. Fails to boot with file not found errors. Uh oh. 2024-01-23 12:40:13 Android!? 2024-01-23 12:40:16 apk 2024-01-23 12:40:23 alpine is android system 2024-01-23 12:40:30 i have android studio 2024-01-23 12:40:43 has anyone setup syncthing on alpine? 2024-01-23 12:40:43 iDoes this mean I can co-develop apk components? 2024-01-23 12:41:01 i don't know that 2024-01-23 12:41:11 you say Google photo or accounts sync? 2024-01-23 12:41:22 Adding -enable-kvm fixed it. 2024-01-23 12:46:57 gamingirc: I mean, after knowing the three concepts, do I need to follow the DREAD, CVSS scoring model to measure risk? 2024-01-23 12:48:26 sure 2024-01-23 12:49:03 Can you tell me more about this? 2024-01-23 12:49:34 TMSA? 2024-01-23 12:50:43 I'm having a hard time understanding what threat modeling is diffcult. 2024-01-23 12:54:33 gamingirc: 2024-01-23 12:54:49 what 2024-01-23 12:54:56 STRIDE + DREAD + PASTA + VAST + Trike+ OCTAVE + NIST 2024-01-23 12:55:18 If I use so many frameworks, does it mean that I fully grasp the concept of threat modeling? 2024-01-23 12:55:37 Definitely, more = better. 2024-01-23 12:56:27 thx 2024-01-23 12:56:40 What do you think could be improved? 2024-01-23 12:57:25 I don't know 2024-01-23 12:57:53 ... ok 2024-01-23 12:59:28 (For when they return.) Tuturu: /etc/apk/world in a fresh vm -> acct alpine-base busybox-mdev-openrc doas e2fsprogs linux-firmware-none linux-lts openssh openssl syslinux. You might want some firmware. The linux-firmware metapackage is a bit big. Honestly a little surprised it installed syslinux in my virtual machine, was expecting grub. I think it chooses grub with efi systems. 2024-01-23 12:59:30 I don't use either personally, using a signed Unified Kernel Image booted directly by uefi without a loader. 2024-01-23 13:10:35 ACTION hasn't used it. 2024-01-23 13:10:35 ninchuka[m]: Syncthing is in repos. Are you having issues? 2024-01-23 13:11:11 I've got it installed, but I cant access the web panel from another machine 2024-01-23 13:20:57 Tuturu: Welcome back 2024-01-23 13:21:02 Tuturu: /etc/apk/world in a fresh vm -> acct alpine-base busybox-mdev-openrc doas e2fsprogs linux-firmware-none linux-lts openssh openssl syslinux. You might want some firmware. The linux-firmware metapackage is a bit big. Honestly a little surprised it installed syslinux in my virtual machine, was expecting grub. I think it chooses grub with efi systems. I don't use either 2024-01-23 13:21:04 personally, using a signed Unified Kernel Image booted directly by uefi without a loader. 2024-01-23 13:21:34 ninchuka[m]: Did you setup a firewall or does it bind on 127.0.0.1 instead of your public interface? 2024-01-23 13:22:03 its a fresh install of alpine I didnt touch anything related to firewall 2024-01-23 13:22:20 I can access netdata from another device just fine is the thing 🤔 2024-01-23 13:22:31 If it binds on 127.0.0.1, is it supposed to be a private trusted interface from the local machine and not to be shared with the LAN? 2024-01-23 13:23:04 hmm, maybe? 2024-01-23 13:24:03 Maybe ssh in and forward through that instead of sharing the service to your LAN? 2024-01-23 13:24:33 ACTION calls the night 2024-01-23 13:24:36 Happy hacking all. o/ 2024-01-23 13:24:42 night 2024-01-23 13:25:14 netdata? you can make it public, but really setup restrictions for access first - or configure a reverse http proxy for it 2024-01-23 13:25:35 (SSH proxy <3) 2024-01-23 13:25:51 netdata has no concept of authentication 2024-01-23 13:29:46 i have a computer where attempting to boot the kernel directly fails with command not recognized 2024-01-23 13:29:55 as in, it doesn't detect the kernel as a efi binary 2024-01-23 13:30:16 on a computer from about 2016 2024-01-23 13:33:03 you do not happen to have a model that boots efi in 32bit mode while your efi binary is 64bits only? 2024-01-23 13:33:34 there have been systems with that weird 32/64bit mode in EFI 2024-01-23 13:34:21 Oh one last thing. I haven't used it but Alpine Configuration Framework is a thing. Don't know how useful. 2024-01-23 13:34:31 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Managing_ACF 2024-01-23 13:34:34 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Configuration_Framework_Design 2024-01-23 13:35:14 satmd: no, its a 64 bits uefi system, it boots 64 bits efi files fine 2024-01-23 13:36:15 are efi files for grub both 32 and 64 bits? 2024-01-23 13:41:11 in grub, it should be "chainloader ....efi", should it? 2024-01-23 13:41:28 I haven't used grub in a long while 2024-01-23 13:41:39 im talking about booting grub's efi file you boot to use grub in first place 2024-01-23 13:41:46 ah 2024-01-23 13:50:43 yeah seems like syncthing isnt broadcasting on the public lan IP only internal, now to try and find the configs on alpine 2024-01-23 14:09:54 figured out how to get it to broadcast over lan, but I have to run that command each time I want to do that annoyingly 2024-01-23 15:53:57 anyone use podman on alpine? Just started getting this when trying to run it rootless: cannot join mount namespace for 6865: Operation not permitted 2024-01-23 15:54:13 this is for any operation, even just to print its version 2024-01-23 15:56:23 where do I find the RC scripts to autostart programs/scripts 2024-01-23 15:56:47 ninchuka[m]: some of them are in /etc/init.d 2024-01-23 15:57:28 ninchuka[m]: also, rc-service --list will list services 2024-01-23 15:57:48 tyty found it for syncthing 2024-01-23 17:00:20 okay, I ran strace against my podman having the previous problem, it was having issues with some files in my .xdg/runtime/libpod directory structure - after deleting all of that it appears to be working now. worked for me. 2024-01-23 17:35:36 i haven't yet tested a different distro efistub kernel boot 2024-01-23 18:57:07 Hello world. Glade to meet all! 2024-01-23 19:10:09 hello comp ! 2024-01-23 19:55:29 f_> Hello ! 2024-01-23 22:07:27 hi, I'm trying to fix an issue on forgejo's alpine package registry, where packages marked as noarch are stored in a separate noarch/apkindex file. the problem described by the author of the issue is that apk can't find noarch packages if they are located in a "different architecture" subfolder. is there another way to solve this issue other than 2024-01-23 22:07:27 copying the noarch package to every available architecture on the package registry? 2024-01-23 22:09:21 like, how does the official alpine package registry handle noarch packages? 2024-01-23 22:09:27 Like you mentioned 2024-01-23 22:12:02 alright, I thought there would be another way. thanks! 2024-01-23 22:12:35 apk will atm just look for packages in the arch specific directories as far as I know 2024-01-23 22:13:00 So in theory there is support for nooarch, but in practive, there are still pieces missing 2024-01-23 23:58:42 I tried to setup-gnome but got a bunch of 'Error relocating /use/lib/...' 2024-01-23 23:58:59 */usr/lib 2024-01-23 23:59:46 Is there something I can do? Or do I need to switch to KDE? 2024-01-24 00:06:34 Gnome got destroyed beyond repair :D 2024-01-24 00:35:44 ham5urg: recommend using a pastebin to post the full error message. 2024-01-24 00:35:51 e.g. https://tpaste.us/ 2024-01-24 00:37:39 It might also be helpful to know which version of Alpine and which arch you are using. 2024-01-24 00:40:45 zcrayfish, can't paste due to the laptops installation unfinished / working on CLI only. I'm typing here via mobile. Version 3.19. It seems to me that the error is to IBM's/RH's relocating of /usr/lib/* 2024-01-24 00:43:45 *relocation 2024-01-24 01:03:38 ham5urg: no network connectivity there? 2024-01-24 08:50:32 Why does Alpine use inittab to start getty, instead of openrc? 2024-01-24 09:13:06 probably because busybox init uses inittab, and they prefer BB 2024-01-24 09:55:45 or it's a race to get some access going if openrc has failed for some reason 2024-01-24 10:06:12 o/ 2024-01-24 10:06:19 I have this little trouble on 3.19: ERROR: py3-six-pyc-1.16.0-r8: BAD signature 2024-01-24 10:20:44 oh okay for some reasons I needed my key in /etc/apk/keys even though I didn't build that one 2024-01-24 10:38:16 Hmm. I'm testing rootlesskit and bwrap for root-less multi-user chroots. One little problem. `rootlesskit stat /run/seatd.sock` -> nobody:nobody. How do I maintain write access to the socket inside rootlesskit? 2024-01-24 10:39:00 Essentially after a slimmer alternative to distrobox. :) 2024-01-24 11:23:27 newuidmap seems... painful. :/ 2024-01-24 12:17:07 hi. final question reg. this: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 : after grub-install , update-grub is not necessary. correct? 2024-01-24 12:24:01 oleovit: correct 2024-01-24 12:24:27 update-grub was already run by apk 2024-01-24 12:25:37 @ikke thx! 2024-01-24 18:03:49 First time with alpine. running setup-sshd when it asks for a key, is it aking for a private key? I've tried putting my public key in and it does nothing, and I have to manually make .ssh and authorized_keys and put my public key in. 2024-01-24 18:05:29 It should indeed be a public key 2024-01-24 18:06:12 it can also be an url if you have it somewhere 2024-01-24 18:07:31 I'm just ctrl+V'ing it into the shell, should start with ssh-rsa and end with my user@user, right? 2024-01-24 18:07:40 yes 2024-01-24 18:08:33 hm, only thing I can figure as a noob is that I'm doinf this in a proxmox LXC, but I don't see why the script would care 2024-01-24 18:09:05 there is a trick to fetch keys from GitHub or gitlab 2024-01-24 18:09:18 if you respond: gh ncopa 2024-01-24 18:09:30 it will suggest https://github.com/ncopa.keys 2024-01-24 18:09:59 `gl user` will expand to gitlab.com 2024-01-24 18:10:04 I don't think you can interactively provide the key 2024-01-24 18:10:11 aaahhh 2024-01-24 18:10:16 only by running setup-sshd -k 2024-01-24 18:10:25 I think you can 2024-01-24 18:10:37 oh, that should work then, ill try a new install and use -k 2024-01-24 18:10:43 yeah 2024-01-24 18:11:35 https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/alpine-conf/-/blob/master/setup-sshd.in#L117-143 2024-01-24 18:11:40 trying to get away from the ever enlargening ubuntu 2024-01-24 18:12:00 oh... 2024-01-24 18:12:02 That case statement doesn't seem to handle a key directly 2024-01-24 18:12:08 looks like you are right 2024-01-24 18:12:50 thats a bug 2024-01-24 18:14:05 glad I could be of service rofl 2024-01-24 18:14:21 \o/ 2024-01-24 18:14:22 the logic seems weird 2024-01-24 18:20:40 no luck with -k either, command: /sbin # setup-sshd -k ssh-rsa KEY GO HERE user@host openssh 2024-01-24 18:20:49 You need to quote it 2024-01-24 18:20:52 oh 2024-01-24 18:20:54 ty 2024-01-24 18:21:36 yay! 2024-01-24 18:21:38 tysm 2024-01-24 18:22:24 apparently I added a shortcut in the code, when asking for allow root logins. you can respond with an url there 2024-01-24 18:22:31 but it looks like it asks again 2024-01-24 18:23:11 the idea with this is to give a way to avoid the second question 2024-01-24 18:23:16 but I wonder if it is worth it 2024-01-24 18:59:37 hmmm vulkan-loader-dev doesn't seem to provide a .cmake file 2024-01-24 18:59:45 is this due to it being a bit out of date? 2024-01-24 19:15:21 lane_ftw:im fixing the interactive ssh key issue for alpine 3.19.1 2024-01-24 22:23:18 hello, everyone 2024-01-24 22:32:38 does anyone know where i should look to figure out why I can connect to wifi with iwd but not see any devices in NetworkManager? 2024-01-24 22:33:11 I am using an old Broadcom b43 wifi card 2024-01-24 22:51:28 Just to be sure, did you install its firmware? 2024-01-24 22:51:52 “I can connect to wifi with iwd” sorry, I had misread that. 2024-01-24 23:05:17 I could be wrong, but I think it prints to syslog, but only when it has been configured in /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf 2024-01-24 23:05:19 https://www.networkmanager.dev/docs/api/latest/NetworkManager.conf.html#id-1.2.3.10 2024-01-24 23:05:43 or, should I file a bug? 2024-01-24 23:05:53 (for vulkan-loader missing .cmake files) 2024-01-24 23:06:03 (err, vulkan-loader-dev) 2024-01-24 23:06:52 I will look 2024-01-24 23:07:04 blackbear: I should also point out, that if you are having no other issues, you might consider simply making iwd a backend to NetworkManager 2024-01-24 23:07:09 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/NetworkManager#iwd_backend <-- as seen here 2024-01-24 23:07:25 that was my second strategy 2024-01-24 23:08:12 i mean, that was my next solution to try, but now i have a link. 2024-01-24 23:08:16 thank you, zcrayfish 2024-01-24 23:08:54 i should have seen that, tbh 2024-01-24 23:13:03 It's all good \o/ 2024-01-25 01:45:58 I encountered a problem in Alpine-LInux and I was unable to open Pornhub normally. com website 2024-01-25 01:46:11 Pornhub.com 2024-01-25 01:46:30 Alpine-linux seems to be blocking DNS access when I browse porn sites 2024-01-25 01:48:07 At the same time, alpine linux can't open the nhentai.net and Hitomi.la websites. I don't know why. 2024-01-25 01:52:40 didn't you know Alpine is only for clean living, god-fearing people? ;-) 2024-01-25 01:53:05 (note that minimal is being sarcastic) 2024-01-25 01:53:14 That's not true, I heard a lot of people using alpine regularly watch real porn and study life drawings 2024-01-25 01:54:28 minimal: You mean, Alpine users are all monks? 2024-01-25 01:55:12 one person's monk is another person's bald man in a robe ;-) 2024-01-25 01:55:37 Do you mean Alpine users don't marry wives or watch pornographic images? 2024-01-25 01:57:00 We also don't touch ourselves. 2024-01-25 01:57:14 Our bed linen bills would bankrupt a Kardashian. 2024-01-25 01:57:27 Alpine is a distro of monk elitism 2024-01-25 01:57:57 They prohibit websites that watch pornography and block DNS 2024-01-25 01:58:46 And they force novices to use a non-Gui installation environment 2024-01-25 01:59:14 Held hostage, intimidated, and threatened many times, so that novices must start installing from a non-gui environment. 2024-01-25 01:59:43 They also said it was for your own good 2024-01-25 02:00:03 Do you know how irrational elitism Alpine is? 2024-01-25 02:02:49 the troll channel is right ahead and around to the right lol 2024-01-25 02:03:01 you is say 2024-01-25 02:03:05 chimera-linux channel? 2024-01-25 02:03:13 #chimera-linux 2024-01-25 02:03:22 they're webscale I hear 2024-01-25 02:03:26 They are all real living people 2024-01-25 02:03:29 alpine linux more people is AI 2024-01-25 02:47:33 Hint: Alpine Linux doesn't open websites, web browsers open (aka view) websites... 2024-01-25 02:47:45 minimal: it's a troll 2024-01-25 02:48:11 they have been joining here and other channels and engange in sealioning 2024-01-25 02:48:11 pj1: I'm aware, didn't you see my initial response? 2024-01-25 02:48:30 hard to see it when I just joined :> 2024-01-25 02:50:13 each source has to be assigned a specific key by default, so e.g. if you add Edge repo and its key to your keyring, then Microsoft can't attack you and claim to be other distro 2024-01-25 02:50:52 mate, you're trolling the wrong channel, that conversation was in chimera 2024-01-25 02:51:28 you family is troller 2024-01-25 02:51:33 pj1: you is big troller 2024-01-25 02:51:41 just shut up 2024-01-25 02:51:43 yes 2024-01-25 02:51:45 you is troller 2024-01-25 02:51:54 you admitted it 2024-01-25 02:52:13 mmkay 2024-01-25 02:52:23 I have been discussing issues with you seriously, but you keep talking about other things 2024-01-25 02:52:35 You see, because you can’t defeat me, you just say you are a troll 2024-01-25 02:52:51 I'm waiting for the discussion to start 2024-01-25 02:53:04 You know that discussion requires 2 or more people talking? 2024-01-25 02:53:18 It also requires people to listen, which you don't do at all 2024-01-25 02:53:30 You call yourself a Linux user guru for over ten years 2024-01-25 02:53:41 I never called myself taht 2024-01-25 02:54:20 you called you self have 10+ year linux support 2024-01-25 02:54:26 you say you is guru 2024-01-25 02:54:37 many people believe in you 2024-01-25 02:54:47 lets get you to bed grandpa 2024-01-25 02:55:08 Can't we have a normal discussion and communication? 2024-01-25 02:55:29 Then start listening to what people say and stop being ignorant 2024-01-25 02:58:18 Nothing you say makes sense 2024-01-25 02:58:43 :3 2024-01-25 06:55:09 hi 2024-01-25 06:55:40 Alpine linux good? 2024-01-25 07:01:05 hi 2024-01-25 07:01:17 alpine use less ram/ 2024-01-25 07:01:33 WHY THEY choose alpine not nixos 2024-01-25 07:19:50 oh no, is the "alpline" guy again? 2024-01-25 08:54:08 it is unfortunately 2024-01-25 10:09:55 Always redirect them to #alpine-offtopic 2024-01-25 10:45:01 Greetings. I manually installed Alpine on an encrypted lvm partition, I installed cryptsetup btrfs-progs and lvm and added the adequate features in mkinitfs.conf. As for the kernel parameters I've put `cryptroot=UUID={UUID of encrypted partition}:encrypted root=/dev/system/root rootfstype=btrfs rw`. Despite all of this, I don't get a password prompt to unlock encrypted partition at boot, and it complains about /dev/system/root 2024-01-25 10:45:01 not being found. 2024-01-25 10:45:50 I also ran mkinitfs too many time xd 2024-01-25 10:46:44 no lvm kernel param? 2024-01-25 10:48:05 not knowing how you've done it, but on another system i've at least rd.lvm.vg, and rd.luks.uuid instead of cryptroot 2024-01-25 10:48:36 the latter doesn't appear to be a thing: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html 2024-01-25 10:49:02 "Alpine linux good?" <- imo it is good compared to every other distribution and not compared to OpenBSD. 2024-01-25 10:49:02 No more. 2024-01-25 10:50:50 "alpine use less ram/" <- You want it to use more? If you want anything to use more ram, first physically eat the ram chip. 2024-01-25 10:50:50 (I'm not mentioning taking advantage of highmem system, don't broke compatibility with lowmem) 2024-01-25 10:52:25 "I encountered a problem in..." <- Nonsense. 2024-01-25 10:54:49 * highmem system, but don't broke 2024-01-25 10:58:22 Turns out I just had to read the wiki a bit more xd. Oops. 2024-01-25 10:58:43 I assumed the cryptroot parameter worked like cryptdevice on archlinux 2024-01-25 10:59:34 The wiki page about luks doesn't talk about the cryptdm parameter at all either, but the luks-on-lvm one does 2024-01-25 11:02:40 so instead of `cryptroot=UUID:encrypted`, I had to `cryptroot=UUID cryptdm=encrypted` 2024-01-25 11:11:27 now it complains about the filesystem being read-only lol 2024-01-25 11:21:16 I need help choosing among the three virtualization options in Alpine. I am considering ESXi vs. QEMU and Xen. Which one is better for me? 2024-01-25 11:28:07 only you know the answer 2024-01-25 11:28:27 what you are trying to do ? 2024-01-25 11:28:34 qemu is perfect for almost all 2024-01-25 11:28:44 Company-deployed servers, set up websites, and hosted NAS and firewall 2024-01-25 11:29:08 KVM (Cloud Hypervisor)? 2024-01-25 11:29:40 you need fast option to create vms ? 2024-01-25 11:29:53 use openstack 2024-01-25 11:45:09 I'm surprised you can express my doubts... I'm also worried that Broadcom, Vmware and Xen are closely related, and some bizarre and unknown problems often occur when using Qemu. This is why I am currently considering ESXi as an option. 2024-01-25 11:45:31 sorry typeing wrong channel 2024-01-25 12:53:35 I will be setting up a nas server with an iscsi-target server for iscsi network boot and network storage, v3.18 repo appears to offer iscsi-scst and v3.19 repo appears to offer both scsi-tgt and iscsi-scst. Which would be a better fit? 2024-01-25 13:07:10 ACTION notes that iscsi-scst is in main and that scsi-tgt is in community. 2024-01-25 13:11:16 <- confused iscsi target newbie, I also noticed targetcli is in the repos, is LIO in the kernel? 2024-01-25 13:17:31 At a glance, looks like they are compiled in as modules. 2024-01-25 13:18:09 Use `modinfo iscsi_target_mod' and `modinfo target_core_mod' to verify 2024-01-25 13:18:43 (likewise the options the kernel was compiled with is usually in /boot/config-*) 2024-01-25 13:19:17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIO_(SCSI_target) 2024-01-25 13:20:40 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Linux_iSCSI_Target_%28TCM%29 2024-01-25 13:36:35 i guess awk cant do something like tail -f ? 2024-01-25 13:37:08 tail -f | awk 2024-01-25 13:37:34 awk \$1 2024-01-25 13:38:58 i know you can pipe it, what did you mean lopid? 2024-01-25 13:39:09 it just prints its input? 2024-01-25 13:40:02 oh but i mean prints as it grows 2024-01-25 13:40:12 as it sees it come in, yes 2024-01-25 13:40:34 pipes mean that not every program need to implement the same functionality 2024-01-25 13:41:12 ikke true .. 2024-01-25 13:42:14 just figured awk can do so much and is made for log files, so phaps it could, even almost suprised it cant :] 2024-01-25 13:42:51 but yeah tail -f works 2024-01-25 13:43:01 It's not made for log files, it's made for structured files 2024-01-25 16:02:22 is it possible to use nvenc on alpine? or do I need the proprietary driver 2024-01-25 16:03:04 everything is possible. the impossible just takes longer time... 2024-01-25 16:03:41 might work in a container 2024-01-25 16:09:12 i just wanted to know if anybody succeeded at using nvenc before diving in containers 2024-01-25 16:11:22 sertonix: have you had any luck using dinit on Alpine yet? I'd like to experiment with it and see if I can get an Alpine system booting with it 2024-01-25 17:11:36 Trying to see why this service I've set up with supervised is dying, but the logfile I've set isn't being written to 2024-01-25 17:12:03 Can't get it to fail when I just run the command outright, so I wonder if supervised is doing something; what should I do to figure it out? 2024-01-25 17:12:44 I don't think many people can help you due to a lack of information you've provided 2024-01-25 17:13:26 I'd figure there'd be some high-level method of hooking into whatever's goin' on 2024-01-25 17:23:09 thought: you're being extremely vague about what "this service" is, what the contents init.d and conf.d files for it are, etc 2024-01-25 17:24:39 gimme a bit; gotta remote back in there 2024-01-25 17:29:23 https://paste.ee/p/XTyyO minimal: i don't get it; running that command is fine, this command's ran for the last few months without hitches 2024-01-25 17:41:11 aha. 2024-01-25 17:41:14 no space left on device 2024-01-25 17:41:48 that'll do it 2024-01-25 17:42:27 man, incron didn't delete anything 2024-01-25 17:47:11 Boom, I was searching for mp4 instead of mkv 2024-01-25 17:49:54 if I execute rm in a script, is it going to prompt me for "write-protected" files? 2024-01-25 18:09:58 hard to test a script like that reliably as a noobie, but i deleted a bunch of shit; we good 2024-01-25 19:11:08 Thats where a testing dir symlinked to /tmp/testing comes in handy 2024-01-25 21:06:59 Hi all :-) 2024-01-25 21:07:33 I'm trying to create a diskless installation on an usb stick 2024-01-25 21:08:03 But diskless option is not present in the setup-disk tool 2024-01-25 21:08:08 Any idea why ? 2024-01-25 21:08:13 setup-bootable 2024-01-25 21:09:21 setup-disk is not meant to create another bootable usb disk 2024-01-25 21:09:30 Thanks 2024-01-25 21:09:31 Ariadne: :) 2024-01-25 21:36:07 Hi all, I'mmmmm Back, asked a question early this morning, if LIO was incorperated into the current Alpine kernel. 2024-01-25 21:46:36 txinintn: I do believe it was pointed out that the two kernel modules associated with that version of ISCI are present. 2024-01-25 21:57:23 I explained I was a newbie upfront (on steep learning curve) and I am at a techinical lingo disadvantage. I appears to me than targetcli was for LIO, and LIO is not a seperate package thus it must be in the kernel, just wanted to verify it with a simple yes or no. 2024-01-25 22:40:51 great! b'modprobe: Fatal: Module configfs no found in directory /lib/modules/6.1.73-0-its\n' installing & configuring targetcli 2024-01-25 22:44:47 poor pi lol 2024-01-25 23:37:16 hello, I am settin up a rasperry pi with alpine, and I run firefox in xorg with kiosk mode. The problem is that firefox is not mapping correctly on the screen, any idea on how to make this happen? 2024-01-25 23:37:56 The top menu is outside the frame... 2024-01-25 23:43:26 hello, everyone 2024-01-26 03:02:09 hello, everyone 2024-01-26 03:02:46 does alpine have a tarball like gentoo, void, etc.? 2024-01-26 03:06:54 blackbear: there are the mini root filesystems on https://alpinelinux.org/downloads/ 2024-01-26 03:07:14 not familiar with gentoo/void to know if that's exactly what you're looking for 2024-01-26 03:09:51 I just mean a tarball to install the base files after partitioning instead of using the auto configuration 2024-01-26 03:17:32 sorry, my brain is tired from dealing with tweens all day. is there a way to copy or install the base system onto a custom partition layout? 2024-01-26 03:31:46 blackbear: yeah, those are what you want... that's how I install all my arm/riscv machines 2024-01-26 03:57:23 thanks, iggy. i r'd tfm 2024-01-26 03:58:15 need to study a bit, but i think i've got it. 2024-01-26 04:42:56 Hi 2024-01-26 04:43:24 I often use Tor to protect my privacy in Alpine Linux, but I find that searching is too slow. Are there any ways to help me search? 2024-01-26 07:05:17 mrrabbit_: search alpine linux packages online? 2024-01-26 07:14:41 mrrabbit_, you're looking for a general purpose Tor channel. 2024-01-26 10:17:08 THIS IS HOW YOU CAN RECOVER YOUR LOST CRYPTO/FUNDS: I’m very excited to speak about Recovery Hacker Steve. This cyber security company was able to assist me in recovering my stolen digital funds and cryptocurrency. I’m truly amazed by their excellent service delivery and professional work. I never thought I could get back my funds until I approached them with my problems and provided all the necessary information. It took them 2024-01-26 10:17:08 72 hours to recover my funds and I was amazed. Without any doubt, I highly recommend Hacker Steve for all your cryptocurrency recovery, digital funds recovery, hacking, and cybersecurity-related issues. Contact them now via hackersteve911@gmail.com 2024-01-26 10:17:53 steve 2024-01-26 10:18:22 ah yes all my lost crypto 2024-01-26 10:18:51 im so clumsy, I keep losing all my crypto/funds almost everyday 2024-01-26 10:19:14 could've at least gone for "Full Spectrum Crypto A-Team" or something fancy, but no, Recovery Hacker Steve 2024-01-26 13:44:24 I kinda like the name, just wish they'd been into something more interesting than crypto scams 2024-01-26 13:59:26 is it normal for grub to just force shut off the computer when welcoming me after an alpine update 2024-01-26 14:02:13 No, but that sounds hilarious 2024-01-26 14:02:36 NEVER trust grub with a system update 2024-01-26 14:02:53 Relinquish grub, use efistub instead 2024-01-26 14:04:50 how do I delete grub 2024-01-26 14:05:09 rm -rf $(command -v grub) 2024-01-26 14:05:25 boring 2024-01-26 14:08:13 format c: 2024-01-26 14:08:31 hmm 2024-01-26 14:08:50 how do you retrigger kernel hooks in apk? 2024-01-26 14:17:54 sewn: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 2024-01-26 14:33:39 sewn: depends on which kernel hook. usually it helps with: apk fix 2024-01-26 14:35:13 i just pushed a "fix" for the problem. it should now be possible to add the needed grub-install ... command(s) to /etc/grub-autoinstall and it will be executed on grub upgrades 2024-01-26 14:35:40 but yeah, grub is often grubby 2024-01-26 14:35:47 and usually not needed at all 2024-01-26 14:36:08 i use efibootmgr to boot linux kernel EFISTUB directly for my desktop computer 2024-01-26 14:45:34 you're one of the cool kids 2024-01-26 14:46:34 but i do use grub on my macbook and in qemu 2024-01-26 14:52:37 Newbyte: didn't glibc lose all its crypto when it moved to libxcrypt? ;-) 2024-01-26 15:08:01 "format c:" <- C: and D: and all of them are flawed stupid ideas of ms dos 2024-01-26 15:13:38 I prefer :D to D: 2024-01-26 15:13:43 ACTION >-|C: 2024-01-26 17:19:21 after an upgrade grub fails to boot on x86_64 laptop (thinkpad x270) 2024-01-26 17:19:41 nsz: check https://tpaste.us/WxVx 2024-01-26 17:19:43 oops 2024-01-26 17:19:47 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 2024-01-26 17:19:48 this one 2024-01-26 17:20:09 thanks 2024-01-26 17:51:50 ikke: it worked (but required a rescue usb stick, mounting dev,proc,sys then chroot, finding and mounting the efi partition then magic grub-install cmd) 2024-01-26 17:54:50 nsz: yes, it is a known issue with Edge 2024-01-26 20:05:37 sorry about that 2024-01-26 20:30:35 /topic is out of date =) 2024-01-26 20:33:11 \o/ 2024-01-26 20:34:00 \ö/ 2024-01-26 20:53:17 Always hated GRUB and I still won't use it, since it appeared. LILO -> syslinux -> systemd-boot 2024-01-26 20:57:36 dpirate: Alpine doesn't have systemd-boot packaged... 2024-01-26 20:57:56 other options do exist however 2024-01-26 20:58:24 Grub is just being used as the default EFI bootloader 2024-01-26 20:58:28 I'm aware it's syslinux 2024-01-26 20:58:44 But I only use Alpine in VMs and 32bit computers 2024-01-26 20:58:49 dpirate: not for EFI via setup-disk, it is grub-efi 2024-01-26 20:59:00 syslinux is used only for BIOS booting 2024-01-26 20:59:04 I don't use Alpine with computers with EFI 2024-01-26 20:59:10 I use Arch on those 2024-01-26 21:00:07 there are other bootloaders you could use for EFI & Alpine, you'd just have to set them up yourself 2024-01-26 21:00:08 syslinux can be used with EFI though, I've done it before systemd-boot 2024-01-26 21:00:52 yes, Syslinux does support EFI but its support is not great and in general syslinux has not been actively developed for some time 2024-01-26 21:01:15 Yes, I figured out LILO, syslinux and then systemd-boot since 1997, I think I can manage. Except GRUB which is a mess. 2024-01-26 21:02:37 I'd agree that Grub development/release plans are a mess 2024-01-26 21:02:57 they've said they want to go to yearly releases in future lol 2024-01-26 21:02:58 It's configuration is a mess too. 2024-01-26 21:03:06 Like many GNU things 2024-01-26 21:03:10 how so? what particular aspect of it? 2024-01-26 21:03:24 That it's full of shell scripts and stuff 2024-01-26 21:04:01 LILO is self contained with one config file, same for syslinux 2024-01-26 21:04:14 GRUB is a sprawling mess 2024-01-26 21:05:01 grub has 1 config file, /boot/grub/grub.cfg.........though yes it has template files and /etc/default/grub and various tools used to generate that single config file ;-) 2024-01-26 21:05:33 It works if you are ok with their defaults 2024-01-26 21:05:37 and don't touch anything 2024-01-26 21:05:44 But I always had to do things differently 2024-01-26 21:05:58 I configure Grub all the time including changing defaults 2024-01-26 21:06:04 don't seen any big issues 2024-01-26 21:06:49 Did you need to triple or quadruple boot OSes ever? 2024-01-26 21:07:09 I boot 69 operating systems. 2024-01-26 21:07:45 nope, but how is that different than double booting? depending on what you're booting os-prober (not part of Grub) may be responsible for handling that 2024-01-26 21:07:49 Anyway GRUB is just user unfriendly like a lot of GNU stuff I've had to deal with since 1997 2024-01-26 21:09:11 minimal, well there are other situations than dual booting Linux and Windows which would be a use case GRUB would support out of the box. 2024-01-26 21:10:06 I've always been interrested in trying out operating systems and when I didn't have many PCs I had to figure out how to triple our quadruple boot. And it was easier done with syslinux in my experience. 2024-01-26 21:10:22 when I mentioned dual booting I wasn't assuming Alpine & Windows specifically 2024-01-26 21:10:40 I wasn't think of Alpine, I've never dual booted Alpine 2024-01-26 21:10:50 When I dual booted stuff I was running Slackware 2024-01-26 21:10:59 ok, I wasn't assuming a Linux distro and Windows 2024-01-26 21:11:11 I don't have any Windows running here 2024-01-26 21:11:28 I was thinking of things like BeOS 2024-01-26 21:11:31 OS/2 2024-01-26 21:13:01 So you are looking to boot... Haiku and ArcaOS on a UEFI system if we're talking modern times? 2024-01-26 21:13:27 Nah these days I'm not I have enough PCs I don't need to bother with dual booting anymore 2024-01-26 21:13:41 That was back in the early 200s 2024-01-26 21:13:42 200s 2024-01-26 21:14:12 I mean the original BeOS and OS/2 2024-01-26 21:14:25 or other stuff like Minux 2024-01-26 21:14:28 Minix 2024-01-26 21:14:41 Solaris 2024-01-26 21:15:47 Ah the 200s, quad-booting to please Emperor Severus. 2024-01-26 21:17:52 Yes, that's what you had to do in those days 2024-01-26 21:19:16 Not so much to please "Emperor Severus" but just out of curiosity to know why this or that OS was praised. 2024-01-26 21:29:25 "Why is it so hard to enable zram in Alpine Linux, specifically zram that is persistent accross reboots?" https://fosstodon.org/@goatwildernesscollective@librem.one/111824257444351720 2024-01-26 21:33:06 It's probably not that hard, it's just that it's trivial with systemd 2024-01-26 21:40:10 wat? I use zram-init 2024-01-26 21:40:29 super easy, barely an inconvenience 2024-01-26 21:43:39 It's all relative though 2024-01-26 21:44:10 Even with systemd it would be a challenge for the average Windows user 2024-01-26 21:46:29 omni: how does that work? 2024-01-26 21:46:42 ikke: very well 2024-01-26 21:48:34 doas apk add zram-nit; doas $EDITOR /etc/conf.d/zram-init; doas rc-update add zram-init boot 2024-01-26 21:48:57 s/zram-nit/zram-init/ 2024-01-26 21:49:54 ikke: do you mean technically? =) 2024-01-26 21:50:14 omni: yes 2024-01-26 21:50:20 or rather 2024-01-26 21:50:27 how to set it up, what you just mentioned 2024-01-26 21:51:07 yeah that would make some sweet wiki howto content 2024-01-26 21:51:15 doas -s ; nvim /etc/systemd/zram-generator.conf ; reboot 2024-01-26 21:51:34 similar 2024-01-26 21:51:54 I use it for swap, /tmp and /var/tmp, and zstd as compression algorithm 2024-01-26 21:56:34 the zram-init man page is informative and the /etc/conf.d/zram-init file that comes with zram-init-openrc has good comments 2024-01-26 22:00:36 well, ok, my /var/tmp is a symlink to /tmp so I only have one zram disk for that 2024-01-26 22:06:46 omni: What's it like being everything? 2024-01-26 22:29:38 XFaCiEer: are you having a bad day? 2024-01-26 22:29:47 (or night) 2024-01-26 22:32:07 XFaCiEer: yes 2024-01-26 23:13:24 dpirate: Humour is bad day? O_o 2024-01-26 23:13:27 o____________O 2024-01-26 23:14:54 I like dark humour, but your dark humour has to be in the realm of private jokes 2024-01-26 23:15:22 So let me in on them in that case 2024-01-26 23:15:42 The user name is omni 2024-01-26 23:15:55 omni means everything 2024-01-26 23:16:00 Indeed 2024-01-26 23:16:04 That's the joke 2024-01-26 23:16:07 Ah, lol, got it 2024-01-26 23:16:19 You said 200s 2024-01-26 23:16:24 Sorry, indeed, I didn't connect the dots 2024-01-26 23:16:38 200 A.D. is when Emperor Whatever of Rome existed 2024-01-26 23:16:40 Yeah I typo'ed twice 2024-01-26 23:16:49 Got it 2024-01-26 23:16:55 :D 2024-01-26 23:18:19 Nice 2024-01-26 23:18:31 I was too stupid to get it 2024-01-26 23:19:50 Or just not expecting it at all 2024-01-27 00:44:02 I can't install alpine 2024-01-27 00:44:28 I get kicked back into grub when I boot 2024-01-27 00:45:10 ACTION uploaded an image: (43KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/jEaFYqsSdPAanLOdfLaTZiTD/20240126_194453.jpg > 2024-01-27 00:45:41 I do have secure boot off 2024-01-27 00:48:52 Wait nvm it was still on for some reason 2024-01-27 00:52:01 question - I run 3.19 but I'd like to install Python 3.10 alongside 3.11. Is it a bad idea to install 3.10 from 3.17 using the --repository flag and pointing to 3.17/main ? 2024-01-27 00:52:28 yes 2024-01-27 00:52:39 figured 2024-01-27 00:52:53 is there a way to install another version via apk? 2024-01-27 00:53:14 You could checkout aports and build it yourself 2024-01-27 00:53:31 that way it would be built for current system as apk 2024-01-27 00:54:05 pj[m]: thanks. I'll look into that 2024-01-27 01:00:50 pj[m]: don't suppose you have a link you can point me to describing how to build one of these aports manually? 2024-01-27 01:01:26 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Creating_an_Alpine_package 2024-01-27 01:01:42 thank you 2024-01-27 01:01:52 :3 2024-01-27 01:11:10 you could try distrobox, it's in community/ since a couple of years, https://github.com/89luca89/distrobox 2024-01-27 01:30:34 omni: thanks. That's a bit overkill for my case. 2024-01-27 01:32:27 ok =) 2024-01-27 01:32:42 it's pretty convenient, but I've actually never used it on alpine 2024-01-27 01:32:59 only on other distros to run things packaged in alpine 2024-01-27 01:33:49 kinda neat though 2024-01-27 01:34:11 thanks for the recommendation. I'll toy around with it in other cases if needed 2024-01-27 03:44:45 A form for a certain enterprise to recruit employees: Employees must act as "cannon fodder", also known as "disposable gloves" The work hours are from 12 hours in the morning to 12 hours in the evening, and there is no vacation for a week. When any disputes occur in the company or any property losses occur, employees must bear 100% responsibility. When employees are financially bankrupt or have no money, they will be forced to 2024-01-27 03:44:45 sign loan sharks. If the employee has no money to repay, the company's legal department will file a lawsuit against the employee. Whether the employee is died or the employee's rights and interests have nothing to do with the company. This is the employee's responsibility. 2024-01-27 03:44:52 alpine linux user how can i do 2024-01-27 03:45:50 Alpine linux I was squeezed by hard-earned companies, all companies just want the original project as cannon fodder 2024-01-27 04:40:00 is locale not really a thing with musl? 2024-01-27 05:04:29 I think it is 2024-01-27 05:35:10 fluix: how do you get locale installed? 2024-01-27 05:37:07 some packages have a -lang subpackage 2024-01-27 06:31:38 is anyone specifically also unable to download specifically and only sway-wallpapers? 2024-01-27 06:31:53 it just hangs forever as the server never sends anything 2024-01-27 06:32:09 I'm using dl-cdn official edge mirror 2024-01-27 06:34:50 ACTION sent a code block: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/uxNOhMsPqonWSVVIwMubmVXB 2024-01-27 06:34:58 same, but https for the dl-cdn. no issue currently 2024-01-27 06:35:52 Also, I see grub got a new r1 release. Do I need to shit myself in preparation for this, or will this be a seamless bump since we arent changing grub versions? 2024-01-27 07:19:57 How about this: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/issues/15720 2024-01-27 07:21:59 I found that some distributions have already done it like this. 2024-01-27 08:18:22 https://matrix.to/#/#troller:tchncs.de 2024-01-27 08:19:57 rurpyws[m]: why are you spamming channels 2024-01-27 08:20:23 ikke: No spam you see 2024-01-27 08:20:37 matrix troller have alpine 2024-01-27 08:51:58 oh boy. since when alpine is able to auto detect serial, that's awesome! 2024-01-27 09:40:04 Does kernel panic HDD led blink work for anyone? 2024-01-27 09:40:57 I've only ever seen capslock blink, but I also never payed attention to the HDD led 2024-01-27 09:47:54 hm 2024-01-27 09:50:00 my caps lock doesn't blink 2024-01-27 09:51:36 Make your kernel panic 2024-01-27 09:51:44 I am 2024-01-27 09:51:50 with sysrq 2024-01-27 09:52:06 CONFIG_LEDS_TRIGGER_PANIC is y on Linux edge 2024-01-27 09:52:19 DISK LEDs is also on 2024-01-27 09:53:09 How do you panic with sysrq? 2024-01-27 09:53:33 echo c | doas tee /proc/sysrq-trigger 2024-01-27 09:53:38 and its very obviously panicking 2024-01-27 09:53:48 same with alt+prntscrn+c 2024-01-27 09:57:37 ok :) 2024-01-27 10:06:21 I'll just assume its broken, thanks for your help 2024-01-27 11:05:09 ACTION imagines if kernel panic were set to go all rave mode on RGB systems. 2024-01-27 11:06:24 unfortunately not 2024-01-27 11:06:48 LED control for RGB happens in userspace mostly and are not available during a panic 2024-01-27 11:09:16 Hmm 2024-01-27 11:09:34 Surely could just have a replay pattern in loop? Easy to program. 2024-01-27 11:09:51 yes, but nobody wrote that as a kernel module 2024-01-27 11:09:54 Probably not worth it :p 2024-01-27 11:10:04 ACTION nod 2024-01-27 11:10:05 looking through openrgb, you'll have so many variants of hardware 2024-01-27 11:10:19 Aww 2024-01-27 15:13:19 years ago, i asked my ops team to set up some rgb thing in the "noc" that would be basically a visual alarm, by watching the serial port switches. 2024-01-27 15:13:28 it was kind of a joke, but they didn't do it, so i did 2024-01-27 15:14:06 i don't remember it taking much time, like, an afternoon, and it worked pretty well 2024-01-27 15:14:27 then they started arguing over what color was best 2024-01-27 15:14:38 aha, the bikeshed face 2024-01-27 15:14:46 phase* 2024-01-27 15:15:00 exactly 2024-01-27 15:15:34 well that and they all wanted it to do more than watch for crashes, and i said, "cool" but nobody did. 2024-01-27 16:10:13 Why are 2 download options in raspberry pi section with armhf? 2024-01-27 16:12:10 And wich differents they have 2024-01-27 16:23:45 Tropy, one is a tar archive, the other is a storage image 2024-01-27 16:50:23 Saijin_Naib[m]: the Grub r1 change is only to add support for a /etc/grub-autoinstall script to be run upon each Grub package update 2024-01-27 16:50:47 no actual /etc/grub-autoinstall is provided however, you'd have to write that yourself 2024-01-27 17:15:38 Hmmm... do we have a guide/template for it yet? 2024-01-27 17:16:04 nope, that change is only "step 1" of a solution 2024-01-27 17:16:41 I'm working on "step 2" which will be for new installs only - to have setup-disk create a /etc/grub-autoinstall for future use 2024-01-27 17:17:38 I guess "step 3" will be to somehow get people with existing install to create their own such script.......nothing has been discussed so far as to how to deal with this 2024-01-27 17:19:33 "step 3" will also have to include somehow making people who have done new install (where "step 2" is in place and so created that script) that if they change anything related to how their system boots that they will then need to modify that script accordingly or risk future runs that could break their system 2024-01-27 17:19:56 s/making people/making people aware/ 2024-01-27 17:20:01 For step 3 I think the only thing we can do is provide instructions on how to do it 2024-01-27 17:20:17 If you have a custom setup, you kind of assume responsibility of keeping it up-to-date / working 2024-01-27 17:20:23 ikke: well we can't cater for all potential boot scenarios 2024-01-27 17:21:01 Exactly 2024-01-27 17:21:25 Im not saying detailed instructions 2024-01-27 17:21:57 But more like you said, make people aware it exists and how to use it 2024-01-27 17:21:59 including such things as someone deciding to switch to another bootloader but who doesn't uninstall grub ;-) 2024-01-27 17:22:36 tbh i've considered it, for the one laptop that runs it 2024-01-27 17:24:14 invoked: my point was specifically the bit about "doesn't uninstall grub"....in which case upon next Grub package update if that script is present it could "do what it is designed to do" and overwrite the other bootloader's stuff...doh! 2024-01-27 17:25:28 yeah. grub isn't adding any value in my case, not anything i want, so ideally it'd just be gone 2024-01-27 17:25:46 minimal: if they uninstall grub, the script should no longer be executed, right? 2024-01-27 17:25:57 this grub script idea so course doesn't deal with similar issues in other bootloader packages (like syslinux) 2024-01-27 17:26:15 absolutely 2024-01-27 17:26:16 ikke: yes, my point was if they switch bootloader but DO NOT uninstall Grub 2024-01-27 17:26:24 It's impossible to get every situation right 2024-01-27 17:27:27 invoked: assuming you're EFI booting then the "value" that Grub is adding is that it is the "officially supported" (i.e. by setup-disk) Alpine bootloader for UEFI 2024-01-27 17:28:01 ikke: yupe but that won't stop people complaining in their particular scenario... 2024-01-27 17:28:22 people will complain if we do nothing, people will complain if we do something 2024-01-27 17:28:38 ikke: stop complaining! ;-) 2024-01-27 17:29:32 and yes I'm complaining that you're complaining lol 2024-01-27 17:30:53 and I'm not even complaining :p 2024-01-27 17:31:19 Just trying to be pragmatic 2024-01-27 17:31:24 you're complaining that I wrongly accused you of complaining? lol 2024-01-27 17:33:56 minimal: break; # trying to avoid a recursive infinite loop 2024-01-27 17:34:11 minimal: i don't use the setup-* tools anyway (someday, perhaps... as the early onset dementia stops being 'early') 2024-01-27 17:34:29 invoked: oof, sad to hear 2024-01-27 17:34:46 ikke: i'm joking, but i have dealt with real dementia in our parents. 2024-01-27 17:34:59 ""step 3" will also have to..." <- Sounds great, thanks for tackling this 2024-01-27 17:35:03 but anyway i'd need someone to tell me i have dementia, you can't self-diagnose... 2024-01-27 17:36:41 ikke: i had a period of amnesia due to a concussion, that was bad enough. i was at a keyboard and couldn't remember any passwords. 2024-01-27 17:38:08 invoked: neither do I, I create disk images and use those 2024-01-27 17:39:59 invoked: don't you (a) have a password manager? and/or (b) write down at least the password manager password in store in a "secure" place? 2024-01-27 17:40:36 minimal: You'd have to remember the password for the password manager or where you stored them 2024-01-27 17:40:51 exactly. i was trying to figure out a succinct way to say that 2024-01-27 17:41:36 i do have a fire engine red folder now for that occasion, just for my wife's sake. legacy planning 2024-01-27 17:42:03 "where you stored them" - well if it is a secure place then its location shouldn't be relying just on it being a secret so it would be ok to have notes etc as to where it is 2024-01-27 17:43:54 it's hard to explain amnesia. it's everything. you don't know what day it is. 2024-01-27 17:44:13 you might not even remember you have a password manager. 2024-01-27 17:44:53 it's this constant feeling like you should know something but you can't even name what it is you're forgetting. 2024-01-27 17:49:33 your supernode gets scrambled... 2024-01-27 18:00:26 invoked: I'm not exactly young so I'm somewhat familiar with the concept of unreliable memory lol 2024-01-27 19:05:06 same. the amnesia did make me distrust my mind, so i try to verify a lot more. healthier default, probably. 2024-01-27 21:21:50 What's missing for strftime to respect LC_TIME on musl? 2024-01-27 21:23:26 I've seen https://wiki.musl-libc.org/open-issues, but it's not entirely clear to me what would need to happen. 2024-01-27 21:29:27 WhyNotHugo: You could also ask this in #musl on libera.chat 2024-01-27 21:45:45 Currently trying some things in a VM and I can't get networking up, udhcpc fails with udhcpc: read error: Network is down, reopening socket. And it just keeps repeating that 2024-01-27 21:45:53 Does anyone know what the problem could be? 2024-01-27 21:48:28 what hypervizor? 2024-01-27 21:50:34 Is the network link up? 2024-01-27 21:50:41 (and/or can you bring it up) 2024-01-27 21:52:53 regular KVM. It works in a regular Alpine ISO, but I'm messing around a bit with services. How do I bring network up, just ifup or something? 2024-01-27 21:53:05 ip link set dev up 2024-01-27 21:53:35 ah there you go, that's what I was missing. Thanks for the pointer! 2024-01-27 21:55:33 np 2024-01-27 21:55:47 (ifup would also do that for the record) 2024-01-27 21:55:59 I guess that's done normally by /etc/init.d/networking? 2024-01-27 21:56:01 but only if the interface is specified in /etc/network/interfaces 2024-01-27 21:56:03 yes 2024-01-27 21:56:08 ah cool 2024-01-28 06:24:48 why is the mirrorlist http only? 2024-01-28 06:28:15 also nice, it lied (fastest mirror is the slowest when being actually used) 2024-01-28 07:03:56 https://kitten.pastes.sh/alpine-rankmirrors small script i made up in a few minutes to make real world usage 2024-01-28 11:38:33 ACTION just installed Alpine 3.19.1 on another spare Pi 4 :) 2024-01-28 11:43:45 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1089835639299657738/1201129647560200252/Skarmbild_fran_2024-01-28_12-39-58.png 2024-01-28 11:47:25 nice 2024-01-28 12:23:54 hmm, setting a desktop(UI) on laptops does require more efforts, still struggling with sound-card 2024-01-28 12:24:15 xfce(default) install went ok 2024-01-28 13:59:34 sewn: https://mirrors.alpinelinux.org/ 2024-01-28 13:59:54 that doesnt answer my question 2024-01-28 14:00:12 zcrayfish: sewn refers to https://mirrors.alpinelinux.org/mirrors.txt 2024-01-28 14:00:14 the mirror list chooses https instead of http for all services, even if available 2024-01-28 14:00:41 right. 2024-01-28 14:01:16 seems the Bahnhof mirror list is out of date should i report it to them or to you? 2024-01-28 14:02:59 luna: out of date in what sense? 2024-01-28 14:03:25 You mean mirrors.txt on their mirror? 2024-01-28 14:03:53 ikke: could not install sudo from it when i had them set on my Pi 4, but yeah should check to make sure 2024-01-28 14:06:35 http://mirror.bahnhof.net/pub/alpinelinux/v3.19/community/aarch64/sudo-1.9.15_p2-r0.apk 2024-01-28 14:06:47 odd let me try again 2024-01-28 14:07:12 ah i had forgotten to enable community 2024-01-28 14:07:14 you have enabled community ? doas 2024-01-28 14:07:40 heh.. doas servers also well 2024-01-28 14:08:12 well i am used to sudo and don't want to learn something new 2024-01-28 14:08:31 Isn't there a shim to convert sudo commands to doas? 2024-01-28 14:08:35 yes 2024-01-28 14:08:49 doas-sudo-shim 2024-01-28 14:08:58 yeah, that's the one! 2024-01-28 14:09:12 But mostly to convert things like sudo -i to doas -s 2024-01-28 14:09:25 yep that worked it was me that was stupid that had forgotten to enable the community repos thanks 2024-01-28 14:12:33 all sorted 2024-01-28 14:14:38 hi, how do I list packages installed from the "testing" repository? 2024-01-28 14:23:06 can one enable testing without enabling edge? 2024-01-28 14:23:55 no 2024-01-28 14:24:09 We only build testing for edge 2024-01-28 14:24:12 alright 2024-01-28 14:24:27 ikke: thx for the answer think i keep this install on stable 3.19.1 but then i know 2024-01-28 14:24:54 teapot9, something like, I suppose, apk --from none -X repo list -I 2024-01-28 14:25:42 Hummm, although list installed wouldn't check repositories, so no. 2024-01-28 14:25:53 apk does not really keep track of where packages came from 2024-01-28 14:26:38 This doesn't even print anything: apk list -o 2024-01-28 14:27:10 fyi, origin here refers to the main package name, not the repository 2024-01-28 14:27:48 Humm, what's a main package name? 2024-01-28 14:28:05 Like for packages that “provide” another one? 2024-01-28 14:28:55 Yeah, I get entries with: apk list -o vim 2024-01-28 14:29:23 the opposite of subpackage 2024-01-28 14:34:16 my current solution is to `git clone` the aports repository and loop over each packages from `apk info` 2024-01-28 16:36:54 still struggling with a bug where under GNOME specifically windows are updated with glitches :-( anyone know how to investigate the cause? 2024-01-28 16:37:26 usually when it shows up, parts of a window are redrawn with green squares or other glitchy stuff whenever things are updated 2024-01-28 16:37:46 so, like, firefox playing a youtube video shows them reliably, but i can't seem to get a screenshot of one 2024-01-28 16:44:48 somehow it only shows up when using GNOME (on wayland, i haven't tried X11), any other GPU-intensive apps work fine 2024-01-28 16:45:14 (so like running games under Plasma or Sway) 2024-01-28 16:53:57 this started happening after i upgraded from 3.18 to 3.19 2024-01-28 17:06:11 also sometimes the display seems to lag an update behind or swap between two updates 2024-01-28 17:06:40 like if you type in the console, and the console window doesn't show the last character typed 2024-01-28 17:17:58 and i have sound (alsa), turns out i need to logout of user(non-previleged) account to get it going, nice!! 2024-01-28 17:19:41 i also curated the xfce+libreoffice pkgs deps, would test a bit and put it somewhere 2024-01-28 17:19:55 and +mpv 2024-01-28 17:21:21 so creating a base working desktop(xfce) live iso might be thing in al 2024-01-28 17:49:47 added gedit, any suggestions welcomed 2024-01-28 22:15:41 neovim always =) 2024-01-28 23:50:51 Helix 2024-01-28 23:51:21 Lapce 2024-01-29 02:17:59 I love how alpinelinux.org has no 3rd party requests, just a single domain. As well as not requiring filthy client-side javascript. Good job leading by example devs. 2024-01-29 02:20:06 Also the short privacy policy is based as fuck 2024-01-29 05:31:38 Chime-linux q66 devs is gay 2024-01-29 05:31:40 hey 2024-01-29 05:31:40 aw;re;lewa 2024-01-29 05:31:40 r;ew 2024-01-29 05:31:41 rew; 2024-01-29 05:31:41 rew;rewa;rewa; 2024-01-29 05:31:41 ewa; 2024-01-29 05:31:42 rewarrewa; 2024-01-29 05:31:42 rw; 2024-01-29 05:31:44 w;ea 2024-01-29 05:31:44 ewar 2024-01-29 05:31:46 ewa;r 2024-01-29 05:31:46 ewa 2024-01-29 05:31:48 ew; 2024-01-29 05:31:48 r;ewa 2024-01-29 05:31:50 r;ewa 2024-01-29 05:31:50 r;ewa 2024-01-29 05:31:52 ;rewa 2024-01-29 05:31:52 r; 2024-01-29 05:31:54 ewa;rewa';r 2024-01-29 05:31:54 waer 2024-01-29 05:31:56 rew; 2024-01-29 05:31:56 'wa;' 2024-01-29 05:31:58 'ewa;rchimer linux is gay 2024-01-29 05:31:58 'a;r 2024-01-29 05:32:00 gay 2024-01-29 05:32:00 q66 2024-01-29 05:32:02 q66 2024-01-29 05:32:02 q6 2024-01-29 05:32:04 chime linux is gay 2024-01-29 05:32:08 chimera linux is gay 2024-01-29 05:32:12 q66 say fuck alpine 2024-01-29 05:32:16 alpine is gay distro 2024-01-29 05:32:47 chimera linux i 2024-01-29 05:32:55 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:33:01 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:33:03 you is gay 2024-01-29 05:33:06 everyone is gay 2024-01-29 05:33:08 by q66 2024-01-29 05:33:12 i am q66 2024-01-29 05:33:14 you is gay 2024-01-29 05:35:05 hey 2024-01-29 05:35:09 everyone is gay 2024-01-29 05:35:10 gay 2024-01-29 05:35:19 i am #chimera-linux devs 2024-01-29 05:35:24 alpine is sh*t distro 2024-01-29 05:35:27 no use it 2024-01-29 05:35:32 Alpine linux is sh*t 2024-01-29 05:35:43 #cHIMERA-LINUX 2024-01-29 05:35:49 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:35:52 come on 2024-01-29 05:35:58 this is Best distro 2024-01-29 05:36:03 alpine is sh*t 2024-01-29 05:36:05 no use it 2024-01-29 05:36:08 okay???? 2024-01-29 05:36:09 chime pro 2024-01-29 05:36:11 alpine is sh*t 2024-01-29 05:36:13 fuck you 2024-01-29 05:36:16 chome onpvp 2024-01-29 05:36:19 you is gay 2024-01-29 05:36:26 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:36:30 you know????????????????????????????????????? 2024-01-29 05:36:34 ikke is gay 2024-01-29 05:36:35 !op 2024-01-29 05:36:44 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:36:49 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:37:16 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:37:20 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:37:24 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:37:32 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 05:50:23 lol he says "i am chimera-linux devs" 2024-01-29 05:50:43 oh no!!!!111 misdirection!!!111 2024-01-29 05:52:56 lol: "everyone is gay" 2024-01-29 05:53:24 so he is too 2024-01-29 05:53:28 knowing the linux community, i bet he's close enough with that one 2024-01-29 05:53:46 must've seen my programming socks 2024-01-29 05:54:06 lol 2024-01-29 05:54:43 he's doing a quite contra-productive marketing tho 2024-01-29 05:55:11 ikr like, am i supposed to like chimera linux or not 2024-01-29 05:55:24 getting mixed signals 2024-01-29 05:56:29 worse than a spambot 2024-01-29 05:57:15 The good thing is that, since IRC is limited to just text not much he can do except spam 2024-01-29 05:57:51 It'd be much more problematic if people could upload files 2024-01-29 05:57:54 I've been talking in oftc support for some time now about that guy since he is affecting more than #alpine-linux 2024-01-29 05:57:55 i wouldnt pish the challenge by saying "just" 2024-01-29 05:57:55 sure, but he can annoy ppl like the "alpline" guy 2024-01-29 05:58:22 best to let it go and not pester the crazy before its k-lined 2024-01-29 05:58:32 the alpline guy is funny though 2024-01-29 05:58:45 not much can do, since they keep joining from tor/matrix/webirc 2024-01-29 05:59:12 maybe should consider +R for some time (cc: ikke) 2024-01-29 05:59:42 You could consider +M as an alternative. 2024-01-29 06:00:18 I'm still torn apart on that, since matrix side will just not know what's happening 2024-01-29 06:01:33 Fair enough. If users don't have their client set up to automatically authenticate, it won't prevent join. 2024-01-29 06:01:49 I'm not here all the time, but it doesn't seem like that much of a disruption. Usually happens when noone's talking thankfully. 2024-01-29 06:03:02 Pretty sure most matrix users have not auth'd via irc 2024-01-29 06:05:32 gamingirc: it should be in our best interest to prevent such messages anyway :) 2024-01-29 06:07:07 I understand. But it will amount to lifting the bar of entry, which is fine, just not too high or legitimate people might not want to join. 2024-01-29 06:07:31 it's mostly temporary, until the spammers give up 2024-01-29 06:07:54 being unable to impliment the basic protections an ircd offers because of those users seems like a bit of foot shooting "trying to save users by leaving them unprotected" 2024-01-29 06:08:47 do matrix users always come from same IP/host? 2024-01-29 06:10:32 Subnet, because IPv6. 2024-01-29 06:13:18 I got a question about testing/x2goclient 2024-01-29 06:13:32 should be it moved to community? 2024-01-29 06:14:23 the system sent me a mail on this a while back, but I had no time to deal with it yet 2024-01-29 06:20:27 aron: if you think it works fine, then sure 2024-01-29 06:21:34 I'm using it daily :) 2024-01-29 06:24:54 ok, I try to get some time for it 2024-01-29 06:25:41 also, there would be a dozen of pkgs to add 2024-01-29 06:27:48 like sdcc, stm8flash, pcb-rnd (fork of "pcb", but now we can say successor of "pcb"), sch-rnd (related schematic editor), and some dependencies 2024-01-29 07:17:30 hi i am #chimera-linux gay devs 2024-01-29 07:17:31 hi 2024-01-29 07:17:32 gays 2024-01-29 07:17:34 i am q66 2024-01-29 07:17:39 #chimera-linux 2024-01-29 07:17:41 come on baby 2024-01-29 07:17:45 alpinelinux all is gay 2024-01-29 07:17:48 q66 is guru 2024-01-29 07:17:51 i am q66 2024-01-29 07:17:53 is privacy guru 2024-01-29 07:17:57 come on 2024-01-29 07:18:03 #chimera-linux have hardened 2024-01-29 07:18:06 do you know??? 2024-01-29 07:18:09 grescecuirty 2024-01-29 07:18:15 #chimera-linux have PaX 2024-01-29 07:18:28 #chimera-linux use gresecurity SeL4 kerenel 2024-01-29 07:18:33 alpine use gay 2024-01-29 07:18:35 i am q66 2024-01-29 07:18:40 i is furry + gay devs 2024-01-29 07:18:43 hey everyone 2024-01-29 07:18:50 #chimera-linux come on 2024-01-29 07:20:37 lol, this is a f-ing joke: "q66isgay" 2024-01-29 07:21:12 :> 2024-01-29 07:50:21 helix,lapce seems nice, how about curating a dev-oriented list with rust-y pkgs where-ever possible 2024-01-29 11:47:56 nobody has privilege to block chimera ads temporarily ? 2024-01-29 11:53:19 wouldn't say they are "ads" 2024-01-29 11:53:35 but ikke, clandmeter, ncopa 2024-01-29 11:54:45 ikke set +R few hours ago 2024-01-29 11:54:47 yeah those arent ads 2024-01-29 11:54:50 just spam 2024-01-29 11:55:33 and yes, it was just an offensive spam 2024-01-29 11:56:32 might as well take the opportunity since I pinged them all, to add +R to -devel as well if it isn't already 2024-01-29 12:04:49 > No results found for site:chimera-linux.org sel4. 2024-01-29 12:04:51 Aww 2024-01-29 12:05:02 Not only spam, but verifiable lies! 2024-01-29 12:25:03 huh, dinit 2024-01-29 12:25:11 maybe worth looking at 2024-01-29 12:25:15 openrc kinda clumsy 2024-01-29 12:25:46 dinit is pretty nice, i use it for userservices 2024-01-29 12:26:13 speaking of openrc how would one disable a service autostarting? 2024-01-29 12:26:45 rc-update del 2024-01-29 12:26:46 rc-update del 2024-01-29 12:26:57 aha! 2024-01-29 12:27:00 Assuming its in the default runlevel 2024-01-29 12:27:10 and not a dependency of something 2024-01-29 12:27:17 thanks that worked 2024-01-29 12:27:20 yeah its not 2024-01-29 12:27:23 it was syncthing 2024-01-29 12:27:37 so no worries there 2024-01-29 12:27:41 consus: "maybe worth looking at" *no links* -> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/davmac314/dinit/master/doc/COMPARISON 2024-01-29 12:29:33 huh? 2024-01-29 12:29:50 https://chimera-linux.org/ 2024-01-29 12:29:55 Sofia: this 2024-01-29 12:30:22 or you mean dinit' github is empty? 2024-01-29 12:31:25 sorry to have you caught up in the spam btw, we banned some kiddo in chimera channel some days back and they've been mad about it since 2024-01-29 12:31:39 :D 2024-01-29 12:31:46 q66: tell us about dinit! 2024-01-29 12:31:49 and apparently decided to take it elsewhere too :/ 2024-01-29 12:31:53 Doesn't look empty to me. 2024-01-29 12:31:57 lmao 2024-01-29 12:32:18 Heh, welcome. :) 2024-01-29 12:32:30 looks noice 2024-01-29 12:33:13 oh, so psykose is doing chimera-linux now, interesting 2024-01-29 12:33:47 can it log stdout by default since openrc need manual tweaks all over the place and honestly it's kinda basic thing 2024-01-29 12:37:53 I've been battling with something for a bit that might have a simple solution I am missing: I have a diskless setup based on lbu. Three things point to the USB drive: LBU_MEDIA for the apkovl, a symlink from /etc/apk/cache, and ZPOOL_CACHE. The problem is that while the apkovl is autodetected, the partition is mounted with its sequential name, link /media/sde1. 2024-01-29 12:38:48 If anything changes (e.g. a drive dies), then the name will change, and while the apkovl will still be detected, the /etc/apk/cache symlink will be broken, so the system will come up partially, and the ZPOOL_CACHE will not be found. (And the LBU_MEDIA will be wrong but that's not a problem until the next lbu ci.) 2024-01-29 12:39:30 Is there a way to get the initfs to mount the partition with the apkovl at a predictable mount point, like /media/usb or /media/$DISKID? 2024-01-29 12:40:27 s/sequential name, link/sequential name, like/ 2024-01-29 12:52:19 Or maybe there's a way to run a script from the apkovl before apk tries to install world? The I could create or fix the appropriate symlinks. 2024-01-29 13:02:46 FiloSottile: The boot usb disk used to be consistently available as /media/usb 2024-01-29 13:10:09 ikke: /media/usb exists on this system but nothing's mounted there 2024-01-29 13:11:43 Are there entries in /etc/fstab? 2024-01-29 13:22:23 ikke: nope, /etc/fstab is empty, but also /etc/fstab is inside the apkovl, I assumed it was looked at too late to affect how the boot disk is mounted? 2024-01-29 13:25:15 oooooh /dev/usbdisk and remount_fstab_entry, there it is 2024-01-29 13:29:35 FiloSottile: are you sorted? 2024-01-29 13:31:41 yep, thank you ikke! 2024-01-29 22:53:37 lehm: please fix your client; you're disconnecting every 15 minutes 2024-01-30 01:10:10 Does alpine distribute rust dynamic libraries, and if yes, how can I find (some of) them? Similarly, does alpine distribute statically-linked rust executables? 2024-01-30 01:12:09 I know that Rust people seem to like static linking, but it feels like it goes against the very concept of a distro with a system package manager. I don't want `apk add ` to give me an app that statically links a crypto library that will possibly never get security updates. Instead I want the app to link to the system crypto library, such that the distro maintainers can update it. 2024-01-30 01:12:12 If that makes sense? 2024-01-30 01:19:12 jonesv: alpine links dynamically whatever it can but if the upstream package doesn't support anything else but rust dependencies then it will be statically linked into binary 2024-01-30 01:19:56 Alpine doesn't distribute rust dynamic libraries 2024-01-30 02:44:00 also, Go basically lacks support for dynamic linking right now 2024-01-30 02:44:41 there's "plugins" but that's basically dlopen() but for Go - there is no nice "automatic" dynamic linking even supported like in C 2024-01-30 02:46:26 it seems like they're working on it though, but there's also still some fundamental problem like "how do you even describe the interface without having the implementation at hand" 2024-01-30 06:10:09 Hello, today I just realized that we can't mix pam-rundir with elogind (they will fight over /run/user directory), though both packages can be installed at the same time. I remove pam-rundir and now I can launch gnome from tty. 2024-01-30 06:12:04 ahmadraniri[m]: would you be able to create an issue for it at https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports? 2024-01-30 06:14:54 If that's necessary, I will. Thanks ikke. 2024-01-30 06:16:54 It's easier to make the maintainer aware of it 2024-01-30 06:17:13 or maintainers 2024-01-30 06:17:25 And also have a reference for the future 2024-01-30 06:31:25 Done, issue is created. 2024-01-30 06:32:53 Yes, saw it, thanks 2024-01-30 06:34:22 So it's mostly that the directory has more permissive permissions than elogind allows 2024-01-30 07:15:03 Alice helped me with that this past summer, so it has been around for a while, it isnt a super recent regression at least 2024-01-30 08:11:49 anyone how to fix this, https://d.insteps.net/scr/xfce4.screen-lock_000.png ? 2024-01-30 08:12:08 this is alpinelinux-v3.18.6 2024-01-30 08:12:20 a picture? 2024-01-30 08:12:41 no, how to fix the laptop lid close error 2024-01-30 08:12:49 ok 2024-01-30 08:16:20 vkrishn, which window system are you under? Wayland or X11? 2024-01-30 08:16:36 X11 2024-01-30 08:16:43 xsecurelock maybe? 2024-01-30 08:17:17 You aren't sure which it is using? 2024-01-30 08:18:45 no, i only installed defalt setup-desktop and chose xfce, haven't played with desktop on AL 2024-01-30 08:19:32 now reading xsecurelock and xautolock 2024-01-30 08:23:28 Is xfce4-screensaver running? 2024-01-30 08:27:06 no, just installed it, how to start it ? 2024-01-30 08:28:53 and it worked, thanks 2024-01-30 08:29:51 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Xfce 2024-01-30 08:30:03 ah, cool. Did you run it from the command line? 2024-01-30 08:31:59 no, just installed xfce4-screensaver, then opened the app via settings->xfce screensaver and closed it 2024-01-30 08:32:12 cool 2024-01-30 08:32:18 then closed lid, and viola, now it goes to login screen 2024-01-30 08:40:52 viola you say 2024-01-30 08:58:52 fine, Voilà 2024-01-30 09:30:58 http://www.mixedmeters.com/2012/04/jacques-derrida-says-viola.html 2024-01-30 14:43:00 pj: Alpine doesn't distribute rust dynamic libraries -> is it by choice, or is it just that nobody has packaged rust dynamic libraries? Because technically it should work just like for C++, right? 2024-01-30 14:43:09 divVerent: got it, then for Go there is no way right now :) 2024-01-30 14:44:22 jonesv: how is that supposed to work "just like C++"? 2024-01-30 14:44:46 You mean libraries to compile to C dynamic libraries? 2024-01-30 15:10:56 i'm writing an APKBUILD for a rust library right now 2024-01-30 15:11:04 i would also like to know if i can even submit that 2024-01-30 15:11:31 You can always submit it, it can always be rejected 😉 2024-01-30 15:12:19 well yes 2024-01-30 15:12:34 is there an alpinelinux equivalent of systemd-tmpfiles? 2024-01-30 15:12:58 pj: I mean that instead of pulling the source code and linking statically with cargo, it should be possible to ship a rust executable that depends on system packages, where those system packages are rust dynamic libraries, right? 2024-01-30 15:13:32 pj: It's not because it's Rust that everything should be statically link, is it? 2024-01-30 15:41:00 nice, opentmpfiles is unmaintained 2024-01-30 15:41:06 ACTION scratch the apkbuild 2024-01-30 16:19:29 jonesv: it is 2024-01-30 16:20:06 rust doesn't really support the concept of "I have library X that will be loaded dynamically with program Y" 2024-01-30 16:20:23 unless it's a C dynamic lib 2024-01-30 16:23:41 what if the lib is in rust but the consumer is in C? 2024-01-30 16:24:15 ( https://github.com/cloudflare/quiche/ for https://blog.powerdns.com/2024/01/30/first-release-candidate-of-powerdns-dnsdist-1.9.0 ) 2024-01-30 16:24:46 You can then compile it into static archive or C dynamic lib 2024-01-30 16:25:33 but that's only possible because the library and consumer are written in such way 2024-01-30 16:26:08 you can't take random rust lib and compile it differently and have it work 2024-01-30 16:26:48 and wrt to golang i'm not sure dynamic stuff outside of plugins makes sense. 2024-01-30 16:27:24 or: i'm just not sure what it solves 2024-01-30 16:27:25 I don't think anyone is using plugins anyway 2024-01-30 16:27:49 it's a concept that was created too late and its still too limited to be useful 2024-01-30 16:28:32 Go also sucks massively for anything that isn't Go 2024-01-30 16:57:16 pj: but doesn't https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/linkage.html mention "dylib", which makes a "Rust dynamic library"? What's the point of making a dynamic library (.so) if it cannot be loaded dynamically? 2024-01-30 16:58:16 jonesv: it can be loaded 2024-01-30 16:58:34 but there are requirements for it to work 2024-01-30 17:00:00 Ahhh. Hmm. Theory for hop locking up in the foot terminal. If foot is essentially paused and needs to wake up to process hours of htop's constant updates? 2024-01-30 17:00:05 htop* 2024-01-30 17:00:26 Feels like it is catching up. 2024-01-30 17:00:34 100% usage kinda suggests this. 2024-01-30 17:02:34 pj: hmm... so what does it mean for a distro to distribute a Rust executable? Is the package maintainer responsible for checking the security vulnerabilities in the transitive dependencies and somehow patch them? 2024-01-30 17:03:16 pj: so if you have 100 rust executables that statically link a crypto dependency, and that crypto dependency needs to be patched, then 100 package maintainers will have to go manually patch and rebuild that executable? 2024-01-30 17:03:30 pj: Doesn't it kind of destroy the work of distro maintainers? 2024-01-30 17:04:10 In other words, isn't Rust (and similar modern languages focused on static linking) destroying Linux distributions? 2024-01-30 17:04:16 it does 2024-01-30 17:04:22 :( 2024-01-30 17:04:24 if they do that 2024-01-30 17:04:27 no, this type of thing has been around in one form or another for a long time. 2024-01-30 17:05:28 invoked: well it has, but for "side-languages" like python or java. But now Rust is competing with C/C++ on the system packages, which is different... isn't it? 2024-01-30 17:05:32 it really depends on how badly the maintainer wants to use the dynamic libraries and on the software packaged 2024-01-30 17:06:02 not really different in my opinion, it's just a deployment difference 2024-01-30 17:06:03 jonesv: if the program rolled own crypto then it's same or even worse situation which you can't even change/patch 2024-01-30 17:06:14 which is like 2024-01-30 17:06:20 quite common in C land 2024-01-30 17:06:41 for some reason people really do want to write own crypto 2024-01-30 17:07:03 hubris 2024-01-30 17:07:13 Sure, but that's bad practice, right? Good practice would be to link one of the established libraries (OpenSSL/LibreSSL,etc) 2024-01-30 17:07:35 But now the "good practice" with Rust is to systematically link the crypto library statically 2024-01-30 17:08:17 depends which crypto library is used 2024-01-30 17:08:33 For example rust-crypto is pure rust 2024-01-30 17:08:39 so no externals 2024-01-30 17:08:53 there is openssl-sys/openssl for rust, then there is rustls, and there is ring 2024-01-30 17:09:26 I don't get how it makes a difference: if the crypto lib is linked statically, it means that it needs to be maintained independently for each package that links it, right? 2024-01-30 17:09:49 no 2024-01-30 17:10:23 generally you can see which version is being compiled it, and you patch only the affected stuff 2024-01-30 17:11:31 But then the "package maintainer" of the Rust crypto library has to go update all the packages that depend on it, instead of just updating the dynamic library? 2024-01-30 17:12:28 the other way around 2024-01-30 17:12:43 I'm confused 2024-01-30 17:12:55 say you have a program 2024-01-30 17:12:58 foo 2024-01-30 17:13:06 it wants sha256 crate 2024-01-30 17:13:27 foo 1.1 wanta sha256 2.5 2024-01-30 17:13:56 say a critical bug is discovered 2024-01-30 17:14:06 sha256 2.5.1 is out 2024-01-30 17:15:14 at this point it kinda worth to refresh cargo.lock during building foo 1.1 in order to grab sha256 2.5.1 2024-01-30 17:16:31 the good news is that is can easily be automated based on rustsec advisories 2024-01-30 17:27:00 So the package maintainer of sha256 has to find that foo uses it, and to modify the cargo.lock of foo. Meaning that the maintainer of sha256 now has to "partly maintain" foo, together with the maintainers of all the libraries on which foo depends. Correct? 2024-01-30 17:27:55 consus: or the maintainer of foo is responsible for updating all the transitive dependencies of foo, which makes them the maintainer of possibly hundreds of packages, but just for foo (not for others) 2024-01-30 17:29:21 I don't see how it is not completely destroying the "package maintainer" model 2024-01-30 17:31:44 it's not completely destroy the model 2024-01-30 17:32:06 package maintainers already have to maintain all the dependencies their package uses one way or another 2024-01-30 17:32:17 regardless of the software language used 2024-01-30 17:33:10 How so? If foo depends on openssl, the maintainer of foo is not responsible for applying security updates to openssl, right? 2024-01-30 17:34:44 pj: so as long as openssl does not break the API compatibility, then the maintainer of foo does not have to do anything. If openssl breaks ABI compatibility, then foo has to be recompiled (or just re-linked?), but I guess this can be automated? 2024-01-30 17:35:01 (sorry for the stupid questions, I am trying to understand, not to criticize Rust :-) ) 2024-01-30 17:39:20 as long as it doesn't break API compatibility 2024-01-30 17:39:30 but often it does 2024-01-30 17:40:00 not the library but the applications change things so often 2024-01-30 17:51:38 jonesv: there is no maitainer at crate level 2024-01-30 17:52:56 jonesv: no one separately maintains sha256 2024-01-30 17:53:02 jonesv: the only package is foo 2024-01-30 17:53:31 for example, check https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/package/edge/community/s390x/ripgrep 2024-01-30 17:54:21 ripgrep depends on a hell lot of crates, but none of them are alpine packages 2024-01-30 17:57:35 pj: How can an application break API compatibility with the library? It would just not build for the developer straight away, right? 2024-01-30 17:57:54 right 2024-01-30 17:58:01 if you're lucky :D 2024-01-30 17:58:19 however you can image this diff: 2024-01-30 17:58:31 - if (user == root) 2024-01-30 17:58:36 + if (user != root) 2024-01-30 17:58:36 :D 2024-01-30 18:00:24 jonesv: the same way application can work for developer and not work on alpine 2024-01-30 18:00:39 consus: "no one separately maintains sha256" -> but that's exactly what I mean: it removes the possibility for a maintainer of sha256, and sends the responsibility to all the executables that depend on it. So now the maintainer of foo needs to care about sha256, or just ignore it and let the CVEs pile up. 2024-01-30 18:01:04 nah 2024-01-30 18:01:08 it's much simpler 2024-01-30 18:01:08 pj: right, got it 2024-01-30 18:01:14 cargo audit 2024-01-30 18:01:17 maintainers still need to care about cve's thoughj 2024-01-30 18:01:25 it will show you the affected crates 2024-01-30 18:01:30 cargo update 2024-01-30 18:01:39 the package has to be re-built for the new openssl for example 2024-01-30 18:01:39 qa magic 2024-01-30 18:02:16 not sure about that 2024-01-30 18:02:20 pj: you mean when changing from openssl1 to openssl3? 2024-01-30 18:02:25 major yes 2024-01-30 18:02:27 minor no 2024-01-30 18:02:55 well, "not always" as C abi is a fragile beast 2024-01-30 18:03:45 Well major means API break, right? So "maybe the maintainer has to fix the build, maybe they are lucky". Then an ABI break only means "soname changed -> needs to be recompiled", I guess? 2024-01-30 18:04:08 as with any other programs, yes 2024-01-30 18:04:28 api change might affect you or might not affect you 2024-01-30 18:04:43 no, the package itself has to be rebuilt 2024-01-30 18:05:13 on abi change? yep, but maybe there will be more to that 2024-01-30 18:05:21 because api can also change :D 2024-01-30 18:05:29 and ffi won't be ready for that 2024-01-30 18:05:59 also some of transient dependencies can become a pain in the ass 2024-01-30 18:06:21 Oh right, there's FFI on top of all that :). But FFI doesn't work with static linking at all, right? 2024-01-30 18:06:40 why not? it works with libc 2024-01-30 18:06:49 jonesv: when changing from x.x.n to x.x.n+1 as well 2024-01-30 18:07:28 pj: why do you need to rebuild, if there is ABI and API compatibility? 2024-01-30 18:11:01 well, soname could change 2024-01-30 18:11:26 on minor? 2024-01-30 18:11:40 packages do weird stuff 2024-01-30 18:12:07 they certainly do 2024-01-30 18:12:35 but we are speaking about the usual workflow 2024-01-30 18:12:57 and libssl.so.3 won't be changing during the bugfix upgrade for example 2024-01-30 18:12:58 there "should" not be need for rebuild 2024-01-30 18:13:01 in such cases 2024-01-30 18:13:02 yep 2024-01-30 18:13:25 I won't expect libssl soname change during the lifetime of an alpine release, for example 2024-01-30 18:15:22 Right. So if API change (i.e. major changes): rebuild (and possibly fix the build). If SONAME changes: rebuild. Correct? 2024-01-30 18:16:35 generally 2024-01-30 20:43:59 I just upgraded my alpine desktop and grub doesn't see anything :/ 2024-01-30 20:45:20 1https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 2024-01-30 20:45:23 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Release_Notes_for_Alpine_3.20.0 2024-01-30 20:45:27 beat me to it. \o/ 2024-01-30 20:46:51 ikke: thanks I'll take a look 2024-01-30 20:47:07 I should looked before updating 2024-01-30 20:50:30 do you know if there is mailinglist/rss i can subscribe to, to be informed about such things ? 2024-01-30 20:54:05 We don't have an official channel for updates regarding edge 2024-01-30 20:54:28 We did post an anouncement here: V 2024-01-30 20:54:30 https://fosstodon.org/@alpinelinux/111703786706332100 2024-01-30 20:59:44 ikke: somehow ... I did bookmark this post 2024-01-30 21:13:42 okay fixed, thanks for the quick help 2024-01-30 21:15:35 np 2024-01-31 00:51:51 Hello... Could someone explain on why `abuild` won't accept "package_name-git" as pkgver on APKBUILD ? Thanks. 2024-01-31 00:52:56 s/package_name-git/-git/ 2024-01-31 00:57:43 whoops, found it. Thanks. 2024-01-31 07:08:28 Hi, I wrote a little article about setting up alpine on an encrypted zfs dataset with UEFI boot via rEFInd, perhaps its interesting to some people here: 2024-01-31 07:08:30 https://regrow.earth/blog/2024-01-30_alpine-encrypted-zfs-uefi-refind/ 2024-01-31 07:08:51 Please let me know any feedback or corrections :) 2024-01-31 08:01:44 like it. 2024-01-31 08:13:40 bananicorn: whats the advantage of using zfs over LUKS ? 2024-01-31 08:37:27 dok: I mentioned at the end I think, the main benefit for me is easy and fast snapshotting with low overhead 2024-01-31 08:37:59 okay, i must have skipped the end 2024-01-31 08:38:02 And if you use two mirrored drives/partitions, you have some protection against corruption 2024-01-31 08:38:21 with just a single disk it can only detect corruption but not fix it 2024-01-31 08:39:49 okay sweet 2024-01-31 08:40:18 but do you also get the /boot encrypted? 2024-01-31 08:43:18 ahmadraniri: because it's invalid 2024-01-31 08:43:41 the correct pkgver is _gitXXXXX 2024-01-31 08:44:05 where XXXX is date 2024-01-31 11:09:20 dok: Unfortunately no, /boot is not encrypted in this setup, I don't know if it's possible 2024-01-31 11:47:06 I'm on 3.19, I just saw there is 3.19 is doing apk update && apk upgrade ok in this case? 2024-01-31 11:47:14 there is 3.19.1 2024-01-31 11:47:50 bananicorn: this possible, i think one option is to put a tiny linux in a boot rom have this decrypt the disk and continue the boot process 2024-01-31 11:49:21 (something else than grub) 2024-01-31 11:54:40 dok: Right, I have heard of setups like this, that was a bit out of scope for me here :) 2024-01-31 11:55:23 but probably other options exists, i haven't search much 2024-01-31 11:55:43 I've previously also had a setup that could be unlocked remotely with dropbear running in the initramfs, but I have not done this in a long time and don't know how to do it nicely with alpine 2024-01-31 12:27:23 Hm apk upgrade didn't ugprade to 3.19.1? Do I have to change content of /etc/apk/repositories from https://pkg.adfinis.com/alpine/v3.19/main to https://pkg.adfinis.com/alpine/v3.19.1/main and then update & upgrade ? 2024-01-31 12:32:55 frojnd: there are no dedicated repositories for patch releases 2024-01-31 12:33:29 The only reason they are done is for isos and docker images 2024-01-31 12:36:20 For existing installations, it suffices to run apk upgrade --update 2024-01-31 12:42:25 ikke: aha. Hm I couldn't find in apk-upgrade(8) 2024-01-31 12:49:14 --update-cache, which is a global option documented in apk(8) 2024-01-31 13:08:15 Is there any button that I can use to gently notify the maintainer that package needs an update? 2024-01-31 13:08:42 Donation button? XD 2024-01-31 13:09:14 there is no donation link for alpine now :P 2024-01-31 13:52:40 qaqland: flag package on pkgs.a.o 2024-01-31 14:13:55 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux:Developers <-- wonder if any of these guys still accept donations? ;) 2024-01-31 14:24:59 qaqland : just make custom APKBUILD. 2024-01-31 14:25:05 ikke: how do I know if I'm actually on 3.19.1 ? I've ran apk upgrade --update-cache 2024-01-31 14:27:03 Hm I'm still on linux-6.6.14-r0 but I should be on 6.6.6 according to: https://www.alpinelinux.org/posts/Alpine-3.19.1-released.html 2024-01-31 14:27:13 frojnd: does `apk version` show any packages? 2024-01-31 14:27:34 ikke: negative 2024-01-31 14:27:43 NO version for Installed and Aavailable 2024-01-31 14:27:55 Then you're 'on' 3.19.1 2024-01-31 14:28:18 We don't snapshot repositories for patch releases 2024-01-31 14:28:34 Oouright but am I reading that release page wrongly? 2024-01-31 14:28:57 So you'll always get the latest versions of packages on the 3.19 branch 2024-01-31 14:32:15 https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/commits/v3.19.1?search=linux-lts 2024-01-31 14:32:50 There you see the last commit to linux-lts before 3.19.1 was tagged 2024-01-31 18:16:00 Wow, today i learned that "apk version" exists - I always used "apk -s upgrade" thinking that's the only way 2024-01-31 18:27:15 nice 2024-01-31 22:47:23 uh does alpine have cross-compilation tools? 2024-01-31 22:58:17 It has some, apk search gcc 2024-01-31 23:03:47 ah, that doesn't show up on the website 2024-01-31 23:03:54 no s390x tho 2024-01-31 23:04:43 Doesn't seems so on amd64 yeah