2025-01-08 13:41:08 <invoked> a suggestion for the wiki, in the context of all this recent discussion about systemd polyfills. i noticed that a lot (majority probably) of pages (eg https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Sway ) are basically static recipes.
2025-01-08 13:41:30 <invoked> there's an opportunity here to approach these pages a little differently
2025-01-08 13:43:20 <invoked> so for instance, when the sway page is talking about device managers, there is 1 page that is up to date about device managers and all of these recipes simply link to that page instead of being prescriptive.
2025-01-08 13:44:03 <invoked> otherwise someone has to touch all of these pages every time there's a significant change
2025-01-08 13:50:22 <invoked> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Transclusion is an option, i guess, to inline everything
2025-01-08 14:22:28 <ikke> That requires someone to have a bigger picture overview of the wiki and proactively changing or notifying page authors 
2025-01-08 14:25:08 <invoked> on initial page creation, sure, they'd have to know about it to do it themselves. after that, it's with the community
2025-01-08 14:25:51 <invoked> the idea being is that there'd be less work and things would be more correct as things (especially in main) change
2025-01-08 23:34:46 <zcrayfish> Sounds like a good job for Prabuanand; he's been on a roll on the wiki lately
2025-01-08 23:35:30 <zcrayfish> Incidentally I'd like to suggest setting the flag on the wiki that sets his edits to be automatically marked as patrolled.
2025-01-08 23:38:01 <zcrayfish> it's the "autopatrol" user right.
2025-01-08 23:55:53 <invoked> sounds reasonable
2025-01-09 00:22:57 <vkrishn> thinking of starting wikipedia to post my wip pages(alpine), only problem is its resource hungry, but works on mobile devices
2025-01-09 00:24:40 <vkrishn> i use these docs(wip) for my setup also
2025-01-09 00:36:52 <vkrishn> Transclusion+sectionediting is a nice way to organize a page
2025-01-09 00:41:12 <vkrishn> one can then add tiny postit to it if its outdated, that then get reflected elsewhere
2025-01-09 00:47:12 <invoked> a nice side effect, probably, is more consistent style
2025-01-09 03:29:21 <prabu> invoked,wiki.a.o already makes decent use of transclusion. to uniquely identify such pages Include: is used in the title of such pages.. for eg. Include:Setup-desktop,Include:Architecture support matrix  
2025-01-09 03:31:22 <prabu> infact, the device manager has it's own page Include:Setup Device Manager. when this is replaced in near future, we just need to replace content here..
2025-01-09 03:31:49 <prabu> s/this/eudev 
2025-01-09 03:37:12 <invoked> prabu: cool! so, if that's true, then some things just need to be reworked
2025-01-09 03:38:38 <invoked> i didn't really poke around very much in the source.
2025-01-09 03:47:00 <prabu> [[eudev]] is recommended and required for Sway. Without it, sway cannot connect to input devices.
2025-01-09 03:47:03 <prabu> {{cmd|# setup-devd udev}}
2025-01-09 03:47:25 <prabu> i'm trying to document such things in this page https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Help:Style
2025-01-09 03:48:04 <prabu> so that alpine wiki content becomes more consistent
2025-01-09 04:43:09 <prabu> Ikke, please replace the contents of the page Help:Editing with User:Prabuanand/Editing
2025-01-09 15:06:40 <invoked> zcrayfish: for you, and for whenever prabu gets back -- i haven't done a ton of mediawiki editing, but i'll help out (on the transclusion stuff particularly) however you folks feel is appropriate.
2025-01-09 15:07:03 <invoked> home for a couple of days, could get a bunch done
2025-01-09 15:57:32 <prabu> Invoked, i've updated the User:Prabuanand/Editing page to reflect what is currently configured in wiki.a.o 
2025-01-09 15:59:01 <prabu> i've not touched Developer_Documentation pages linked from home page because i'm still unsure myself. Any help to update/fix these pages is most welcome 
2025-01-09 16:02:10 <prabu> also the terms used in docs.a.o website is not consistent with wiki.a.o . Any help in making both consistent and complementary to each other will be highly appreciated 
2025-01-09 16:06:35 <prabu> among Developer_Documentation pages, improving "Creating an Alpine package" page can definitely bring more benefit to the community
2025-01-09 16:10:24 <invoked> i'm not sure i want to write a bunch of copy. what i think i could best help on is transcluding what's already been written, maybe tighten and fact-check a little.
2025-01-09 16:11:08 <ikke> We'
2025-01-09 16:11:23 <ikke> We'd like to avoid duplication between the wiki and docs.a.o
2025-01-09 16:11:51 <invoked> that too. but i'd leave the scalpel to the wiki vets
2025-01-09 16:11:53 <ikke> I was looking at mkdocs to replace antora
2025-01-09 16:12:53 <invoked> sounds good. are you totally overloaded, ikke
2025-01-09 16:13:18 <ikke> I do have a bit of a backlog of things I need and want to do
2025-01-09 16:13:40 <ikke> If you want to give it a shot, feel free
2025-01-09 16:15:43 <invoked> alright. i'm on leave ... on standby for friends affected by the fires in LA, that's the only caveat. but hopefully (i doubt) i'll have to get personally involved
2025-01-09 16:16:10 <invoked> i'll take a look
2025-01-09 16:17:14 <ikke> invoked: sad to hear about your friends, sounds like an aweful experience
2025-01-09 16:17:45 <invoked> it is.  nobody ever thinks this stuff could happen to them
2025-01-09 16:18:40 <prabu> invoked, please help focus on Developer_Documentation pages because it already has a lot of content.. i've not touched these pages at all as i lack knowledge currently..
2025-01-09 16:18:46 <invoked> one friend has lost her house in pacific palisades but she's with one of her friends and ok. my other friends are busy watering down their houses still
2025-01-09 16:20:36 <ikke> I've added some issues for things that need to be documented here: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/docs/developer-handbook/-/issues
2025-01-09 16:21:21 <prabu> it is quite painful to see.. to experience this should be a real nightmare..
2025-01-09 16:22:38 <prabu> ikke, can you update that Help:Editing page with contents from User:Prabuanand/Editing
2025-01-09 16:22:53 <ikke> Yes, was looking at it
2025-01-09 16:31:05 <prabu> thanks.. will be going off shortly.. is there any query that i need to answer..
2025-01-10 08:43:17 <prabu> Ikke, thanks for updating the Help:Editing in wiki
2025-01-11 17:55:54 <invoked> only had a chance to start work on antora -> mkdocs today. cloned docs.a.o, installed antora, presently getting my head around antora.
2025-01-11 17:58:14 <ikke> antora is a bit complex
2025-01-11 17:58:28 <ikke> You have 3 projects, one is the main harness, and the other 2 are separate handbooks
2025-01-11 17:58:52 <invoked> saw that
2025-01-11 17:59:05 <ikke> But for the rest, I'm not that familiar with it
2025-01-11 18:00:35 <invoked> on the infra side, you build and push this in a container or something?
2025-01-11 18:02:14 <invoked> being that updates are gated on you, i guess you're probably doing this local
2025-01-11 18:04:16 <ikke> It is done in a container triggered by mqtt-exec
2025-01-11 18:05:20 <ikke> So under normal circumstances, it should be automatic after merging
2025-01-11 18:08:05 <invoked> roger that. mqtt, huh? interesting :)
2025-01-11 18:10:38 <ikke> half of alpine is ducktaped together with mqtt :)
2025-01-11 18:13:40 <invoked> seems not a bad place to start, but i've never (really) been in the embedded space to know
2025-01-11 18:15:27 <ikke> You basically send a message to a certain topic, and something else subscribes to topics and can respond to messages on those topics
2025-01-11 18:15:45 <invoked> oh very familiar with pub-sub but just not mqtt. but it's interesting
2025-01-11 18:15:46 <ikke> mqtt-exec executes a process when a message on the subscribed topic is receieved
2025-01-11 18:15:53 <ikke> invoked: ok :)
2025-01-11 18:16:27 <ikke> All the builders are using it as well. Whenever something is pushed to a relevant branch, the builders are triggered
2025-01-11 18:16:28 <invoked> did a bunch of stuff in redis before it was cool
2025-01-11 18:16:38 <invoked> :)
2025-01-11 18:21:10 <invoked> hm. yeah like ariadne's mac runner. i believe i mentioned it before, but i have a threadripper semi-permanently in the off position, it never gets used
2025-01-11 18:21:16 <invoked> but i don't think you need more on that end
2025-01-11 18:22:01 <invoked> also the thing doesn't really idle in a low power way
2025-01-11 18:22:37 <invoked> anyway back to the task at hand
2025-01-11 18:46:43 <ikke> One thing I was thinking about is to keep documentation (at least for the user handbook) per alpine release
2025-01-11 18:47:07 <ikke> I saw that there is a plugin called 'mike' that supports that (though it kind of assumed github pages apparently)
2025-01-11 19:46:01 <invoked> seems gh-pages is the status quo until some resolution here -> https://github.com/jimporter/mike/issues/202 
2025-01-11 19:46:59 <invoked> but might not be an issue, i dunno. i haven't got that far
2025-01-11 19:48:44 <invoked> it seems mostly about the deployment step, not the page output itself
2025-01-11 19:50:30 <ikke> ahuh
2025-01-11 19:50:43 <ikke> So we can probably ignore that then
2025-01-11 19:57:17 <invoked> if not for mike, i didn't turn up anything else that would do it (except for another archived project that just refers back to mike)