2019-08-05 02:11:01 <mckaygerhard> hey guys.. the docs.alpinelinux.org and/or beta.docs.alpinelinux.org only offers user handbook..  so there it's a developer handbook ? or still does not start the work about?
2019-08-05 02:12:44 <SpaceToast> at the bottom-left, there is a tab that says "User Handbook" and "0.1a V"
2019-08-05 02:12:51 <SpaceToast> try clicking it.
2019-08-05 03:05:33 <mckaygerhard> umm ok thanks SpaceToast .. althrought just hav an introduction almost are there for my references..
2019-08-08 19:33:17 <PICCORO> ok, i'll try to update or well write better the alpine chroot wiki page.. but there's no argumentsd fo the mound with bind vs make the nodes manaully!
2019-08-08 19:33:33 <PICCORO> i try to search at google and not found any info property
2019-08-08 20:00:39 <ncopa> PICCORO: you mean the nodes in /dev?
2019-08-08 20:01:34 <ncopa> mount --bind will give you access to all nodes, in one command
2019-08-08 20:03:24 <PICCORO> yeah.. i need technicalls reasons respect fails of the power supply or get power down abruptly.. also respect performance! yes i men the nodes in /dev/ for the chroot alpine
2019-08-08 20:04:27 <PICCORO> by exampe ncopa you said tha with that mount i¿ll have all nodes access to my hardware represented! agains only some mades by me!
2019-08-08 20:08:32 <ncopa> the drawback is that the chroot gets access to all hw yes
2019-08-08 20:08:45 <ncopa> and you need to remember to umount it before you delete it
2019-08-08 20:09:02 <ncopa> with mknode you need to know exactly what nodes you need and create them
2019-08-08 20:09:21 <ncopa> the benefit is that you dont need to remember to umount
2019-08-08 20:22:41 <PICCORO> i found that if i do bind mount,  It can read any file there without modifying the access time.
2019-08-08 20:23:28 <PICCORO> wth mknode the acces time are touched! that a first tech reason to write in the wiki adn the docs also
2019-08-08 20:24:18 <ncopa> i think that "access all the hw" argument is moot
2019-08-08 20:24:37 <ncopa> if you are root in a chroot you have access to all hw regardless if the nodes exists or not
2019-08-08 20:25:14 <PICCORO> umm maybe.. also , so i can made that ncopa mount dev as ro on the chroot dev dir.. and  if I read the file from /alpine/dev/xxx , the access time of the original file in /dev/xxx is not modified, but if I read from the file in /dev/xxx, it is.
2019-08-08 20:25:40 <PICCORO> so access al the hardware argument are not so property described..
2019-08-08 20:26:34 <ncopa> i think bind mounts are the traditional way to do it
2019-08-08 20:26:57 <ncopa> but i guess what is best depends on what you use your chroot for
2019-08-08 20:27:08 <PICCORO> ok but the first adn the only argument techincally i found are that! mtime access ...
2019-08-08 20:27:47 <PICCORO> i can mount in read-only the chroot and the alpine chroot are limited and not harmfull to test any kind of malicious program by exsample
2019-08-08 20:28:34 <ncopa> chroot is not a security measure
2019-08-08 20:28:36 <ncopa> never was
2019-08-08 20:28:56 <ncopa> so I wouldnt use it for test untrusted stuff
2019-08-08 20:28:57 <PICCORO> ok but i must document first the chroot later the lxc and later virtualboxi or vmware
2019-08-08 20:29:11 <PICCORO> later i'll paste and compare all of them
2019-08-08 20:29:24 <ncopa> ok
2019-08-08 20:47:32 <PICCORO> umm interesting you cannot do mount /orig /target --bind -o ro
2019-08-08 20:47:40 <PICCORO> must be remoutn read only if so
2019-08-08 20:59:42 <PICCORO> ncopa a missing info in the wiki .. chroot only can be done from same arch.. seems!
2019-08-08 21:02:56 <ncopa> huh?
2019-08-08 21:03:04 <ncopa> you can chroot any arch
2019-08-08 21:03:13 <ncopa> but you cannot really run anything in there, naturally
2019-08-08 21:03:27 <ncopa> well, you can run 32 bit x86 chroot in x86_64
2019-08-08 21:03:50 <ncopa> or you can copy a statically linked qemu into your chroot and do som binfmt trickery
2019-08-08 21:24:24 <PICCORO> checked that i can run 32 bit x86 chroot in x86_64, but not viceversa!
2019-08-08 21:24:36 <PICCORO> seems not with any of the other archs ncopa
2019-08-08 21:57:03 <PICCORO> i'm update the wiki for chroot just some reordeing and updated info https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Installing_Alpine_Linux_in_a_chroot  need more ifo about mount with bind the dev tree
2019-08-10 19:09:30 <mckaygerhard> almost complete to 70% https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_newbie ecosistem for newer users... feedback welcome ..
2019-08-10 19:59:47 <mckaygerhard> ncopa: -X|--repository REPO  DOES NOT specify if are an URL or just name reference.. wiki pages doe snot said anything and apk command doe snot said nothg related!
2019-08-10 20:00:01 <mckaygerhard> git soruces does not have nothig documented
2019-08-11 08:42:01 <tcely> mckaygerhard: it is not a name reference. Normally a full path or URL is used.
2019-08-11 15:50:23 <mckaygerhard> the ehlp of the apk must be changed.. and the wiki page must be changed.. later i'll do a parallel more complete to explain examples..
2019-08-11 15:51:50 <_ikke_> 'must be'? ;-)
2019-08-11 19:31:43 <mckaygerhard> well finished the https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_newbie_install_manual .. now lest doing a very good step by step for virtual machine case
2019-08-11 19:33:40 <_ikke_> Someone should proofread / correct that though
2019-08-11 19:39:46 <SpaceToast> _ikke_: are you implying it was made with anything but the highest of possible standards? ;)
2019-08-11 19:40:42 <_ikke_> That sentence is confusing :P
2019-08-11 20:22:15 <mckaygerhard> _ikke_ SpaceToast ???
2019-08-11 20:22:20 <mckaygerhard> feedback ?
2019-08-12 04:03:06 <mckaygerhard> well finished the first install manual for newbies and new incoming users.. next sunday anothers manuals.. https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Install:_from_a_disc_to_a_virtualbox_machine_single_only i must sleep for a while
2019-08-12 19:59:09 <ncopa> mckaygerhard1: which is your native language? I assume it is not english?
2019-08-12 20:08:45 <PICCORO> hey ncopa take easy.. i write very bad in all of the languages i spoke.. ONLY WHEN I CHAT
2019-08-12 20:09:35 <ncopa> english is not my native language either
2019-08-12 20:09:49 <_ikke_> Nor mine
2019-08-12 20:10:11 <PICCORO> do you guys want a shoot of? see it: http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com/2017/06/odbc-devuan-and-debian-complete-how-to.html#install_and_prepare_mariadb_mysql_odbc
2019-08-12 20:10:30 <ncopa> we do have lots of volunteers that do are native english speakers
2019-08-12 20:11:54 <ncopa> what I was thinking was if it would be an idea to write the docs in the native language (spanish?) and then have someone translate to english
2019-08-12 20:12:43 <ncopa> even if we dont get anyone translate them, they may be useful in some other language
2019-08-12 20:12:50 <PICCORO> ncopa do you speak spanish as niative lang ?
2019-08-12 20:13:11 <PICCORO> _ikke_ what's your native lang ?
2019-08-12 20:13:12 <ncopa> no, pero hablo un poco
2019-08-12 20:13:22 <PICCORO> ncopa: what's your native lang ?
2019-08-12 20:13:31 <_ikke_> mine is dutch
2019-08-12 20:13:51 <ncopa> well, its sort of a difficult question
2019-08-12 20:14:17 <ncopa> it used to be swedish, but I have spoken norwegian for my half life
2019-08-12 20:14:46 <PICCORO> ncopa <- KAKAKAK i understand.. same problem here with english, spanish and japanesse..
2019-08-12 20:14:50 <ncopa> but im not sure if swedish or norwegian is my "native" language or both
2019-08-12 20:14:53 <ncopa> ha :)
2019-08-12 20:15:11 <PICCORO> non eof them i really talk very bad in any lang..
2019-08-12 20:15:17 <PICCORO> well enought of talk..
2019-08-12 20:15:26 <ncopa> same problem here :)
2019-08-12 20:15:41 <PICCORO> i write some parallel wiki pages.. i need a opinion about htat:
2019-08-12 20:16:36 <PICCORO> i think all pages must be writeen in that style, i mena main wiki pages see it: http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com/2017/06/odbc-devuan-and-debian-complete-how-to.html#install_and_prepare_mariadb_mysql_odbc
2019-08-12 20:16:36 <PICCORO> note that i explain why and where of all commands and changes
2019-08-12 20:17:16 <PICCORO> (please can read.. do not have horrorific writting)
2019-08-12 20:19:13 <PICCORO> I really feel very lazy to write in the chats/irc/telegram ... and I write very lazy, additionally I was a typer (i still have a typewritter machine) and the keyboards are very soft for the speed in which I write
2019-08-12 20:20:02 <ncopa> you mean we should have more detailed documentation for specific usecases?
2019-08-12 20:20:16 <ncopa> i think that is what mckaygerhard1 was working on too
2019-08-12 20:23:22 <PICCORO> yeah.. i said somethign here!
2019-08-12 20:23:41 <PICCORO> a developer.. most simples.. php.. by example with a lamp stack
2019-08-12 20:23:55 <PICCORO> that guy no will just start to coding..
2019-08-12 20:24:18 <PICCORO> he starts listening to music while coding ..
2019-08-12 20:24:57 <PICCORO> or in my case.. i need to connect remotelly to the others machines using nomachine due the vncserver are very very .. well all you know what are vnc respect any windo remote software
2019-08-12 20:29:40 <ncopa> i need to go to bed
2019-08-12 20:29:58 <ncopa> but im not sure it is a good idea to have too specific documentation
2019-08-12 20:30:23 <ncopa> if we document very detailed every different usecase, and combination of usecase
2019-08-12 20:30:42 <_ikke_> The more specific the documentation, the less people benefit from it
2019-08-12 20:30:44 <ncopa> we end up with insanely much documentation, and will not be able to keep it up to date
2019-08-12 20:30:47 <PICCORO> ok i need to rest.. i have some level of headhache
2019-08-12 20:31:01 <PICCORO> in some degree you have right _ikke_
2019-08-12 20:31:17 <ncopa> our current wiki has that problem, we have not been able to maintain it
2019-08-12 20:31:19 <ncopa> and its outdated
2019-08-12 20:31:28 <ncopa> and much of it is not relevant anymore
2019-08-12 20:31:48 <ncopa> i think having a good strategy to avoid that is more important
2019-08-12 20:31:57 <PICCORO> ah but guys _ikke_ and ncopa do you noted that the link that i past are not oout of date? and was sriteen 4 yeasr ago
2019-08-12 20:32:11 <ncopa> our wiki is more than 10 years
2019-08-12 20:32:12 <PICCORO> * written
2019-08-12 20:32:23 <_ikke_> We are well ware indeed that the wiki is out of date
2019-08-12 20:32:27 <_ikke_> aware*
2019-08-12 20:32:31 <ncopa> and ofc not all of the wiki is out of date
2019-08-12 20:32:42 <ncopa> and not all specific written docs will get outdated
2019-08-12 20:32:56 <ncopa> but it will require more maintenance over all
2019-08-12 20:33:04 <ncopa> ok, i also need to get some rest
2019-08-12 20:33:04 <PICCORO> well i ¿ll sure find a strategy.. wheantime i'll rest for a while in a moth i'll update all the wiki .. all you will see it
2019-08-12 20:33:23 <ncopa> good night!
2019-08-12 20:33:32 <_ikke_> PICCORO: thanks at least for looking at this :)
2019-08-13 12:18:12 <mckaygerhard> hi ncopa , _ikke_ , SpaceToast -> i have two wiki pages for chroot:
2019-08-13 12:18:12 <mckaygerhard> * https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Chroot
2019-08-13 12:18:12 <mckaygerhard> * https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux_in_a_chroot
2019-08-13 12:18:12 <mckaygerhard> the first have good introduction but so complicated commands to perform, the second have more simple procedure but less explanation.. i will merge the pages.. some notes for ?
2019-08-13 12:20:09 <mckaygerhard> UMMM HAVE an IDEA, i'll show you all in few hours..
2019-08-23 11:52:40 <tmhoang> SpaceToast: It seems http://docs.alpinelinux.org/user-handbook/0.1a/Installing/medium.html is missing ARM brothers ?
2019-08-23 12:22:24 <SpaceToast> tmhoang: the process of installing to arm is pretty different from what's described, but arm *is* mentioned: "Under some circumstances, you may also use armhf and aarch64 architectures - relevant to ARM chips, 32bit and 64bit respectively, the latter of which may support UEFI."
2019-08-23 12:22:37 <tmhoang> not sure if we allow linking wiki.a.o in docs, but putting those under arch names would be nice I think
2019-08-23 12:22:37 <tmhoang> https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/S390x
2019-08-23 12:22:41 <tmhoang> https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Ppc64le
2019-08-23 12:22:48 <tmhoang> same to arm brothers
2019-08-23 12:23:34 <SpaceToast> wiki can change at any time, so having potentially broken link version controlled etc seems wrong to me
2019-08-23 12:23:37 <tmhoang> a little bit details, I would like to see arm in bold headline just like other arch. Skimming through that page I didnt see arm, my bad, point given
2019-08-23 12:23:56 <tmhoang> I think those 2 link above have been there for the last 3-4 years
2019-08-23 12:24:16 <SpaceToast> no worries, I didn't want to highlight them since the rest of the installation-related docs don't really... apply
2019-08-23 12:24:24 <SpaceToast> I'll think about making them bold :)
2019-08-23 12:25:34 <tmhoang> I do hope that docs.a.o is something complementary to current wiki.a.o and don't reinvent the wheel nor duplicate. Just my expectation.
2019-08-23 12:26:07 <tmhoang> and/or do serve the purpose the docs.a.o team has agreed in the past that I must have missed :D
2019-08-23 12:26:32 <SpaceToast> the goal is for docs.a.o to be the "authoritative" source of information - things that can be said "for certain", like official docs / a manual page (in fact, man pages for various alpine-specific projects could be thrown up there in html form at some point)
2019-08-23 12:26:40 <SpaceToast> the wiki is for... everything else :)
2019-08-26 17:52:55 <PICCORO> hey i merged lighttpd https with lighttpd security in wiki, now we have https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Lighttpd_Advanced_security for Alpine lighttpd advance security configurations page
2019-08-28 11:43:40 <tmhoang> +1
2019-08-28 13:09:26 <PICCORO> err tmhoang that "+1" are about what? the chat history are full of reconnections!!
2019-08-28 13:10:15 <tmhoang> means a thumbs up
2019-08-28 13:15:58 <PICCORO1> errr tmhoang yeah but related to what ?
2019-08-28 13:26:28 <PICCORO> errr, i disconeced! umm tmhoang yeah but related to what ?
2019-08-28 13:26:45 <tmhoang> PICCORO : hey i merged lighttpd https with lighttpd security in wiki, now we have https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Lighttpd_Advanced_security for Alpine lighttpd advance security configurations page
2019-08-28 13:26:55 <tmhoang> thumbs up to that message from you
2019-08-28 13:26:56 <tmhoang> nvm
2019-08-28 13:27:21 <PICCORO> ok sorry .. it's that i need feedback.. by example the wiki pages for installation are too specific a need cutoff