2019-07-24 16:33:28 <ncopa> SpaceToast: what is the blocker for making the user handbook official?
2019-07-24 16:33:41 <ncopa> would be nice to announce it with 3.11 release
2019-07-24 16:34:29 <SpaceToast> for user handbook there's really not much around - just finding errors (if any) and fixing them
2019-07-24 16:34:41 <SpaceToast> so if you want you could make it official now, and invite people to send in patches :)
2019-07-24 16:37:24 <ncopa> oh.. great!
2019-07-24 16:38:06 <ncopa> so basically, its ready for prod?
2019-07-24 16:38:19 <SpaceToast> well, depends on your definition of "ready" and "prod"
2019-07-24 16:38:30 <SpaceToast> it's definitely not perfect, but certainly, no one has the time to get it to that state
2019-07-24 16:38:38 <ncopa> ready as good enough to make it official
2019-07-24 16:38:48 <SpaceToast> I think so; feel free to read through and check for yourself if you'd like
2019-07-24 16:38:54 <ncopa> *nod*
2019-07-24 16:39:17 <ncopa> wow... this turns out to be a good day after all :)
2019-07-29 03:50:17 <mckaygerhard> umm reading https://beta.docs.alpinelinux.org contribution said that comes here! but doe snot said any more!
2019-07-29 03:51:10 <SpaceToast> sorry?
2019-07-29 03:51:53 <mckaygerhard> SpaceToast:  the current new beta docs are git based i guess.. or if not.. how can i made parallel docs and prpose as pull patch ?
2019-07-29 03:52:38 <mckaygerhard> how to handle multiligual aproach ?
2019-07-29 03:52:55 <SpaceToast> https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/docs
2019-07-29 03:53:10 <mckaygerhard> great.. and about multilingual ?
2019-07-29 03:53:19 <SpaceToast> https://gitlab.com/antora/antora/issues/208
2019-07-29 03:53:24 <mckaygerhard> spanish.. german, russnik ?
2019-07-29 03:53:47 <mckaygerhard> thanks!
2019-07-29 03:53:49 <SpaceToast> "the engine does not have said ability yet", feel free to communicate with antora devs
2019-07-29 03:54:35 <mckaygerhard> umm thanks.. this irc channel seems very quiet.. "for sure tomorro i will find a lot of message and i must retract of my workd i hope"
2019-07-29 03:54:50 <SpaceToast> it is, in fact, relatively quiet here.
2019-07-29 03:55:06 <mckaygerhard> 
ACTION "that's stupid keyboard"

2019-07-29 03:55:09 <SpaceToast> mostly because I'm the only person that's really worked on docs
2019-07-29 03:55:24 <mckaygerhard> .. you are the second.. no i get in!
2019-07-29 03:55:26 <SpaceToast> most of the user-stuff has been done, dev docs are at a relative roadblock, and I'm in the middle of a move
2019-07-29 03:55:36 <mckaygerhard> .. you are the second.. now i get in..
2019-07-29 03:56:10 <mckaygerhard> i will read a lot the git places and come back here.. waith my questions...
2019-07-29 03:56:12 <SpaceToast> the order doesn't really matter, as you'll quickly note the contributors list for all subrepositories is in alphabetical order
2019-07-29 03:56:56 <mckaygerhard> i dont care that.. i'll come back tomorrow.. wheantime i'll read a lot firts.. as any linux user must done!
2019-07-29 03:57:30 <mckaygerhard> last question: can i promote this url ? or only the git url ?
2019-07-29 04:01:08 <SpaceToast> which url? define promote
2019-07-29 04:01:39 <SpaceToast> http://docs.alpinelinux.org has already been mentioned in the -devel channel, if you mean that, and beta. announced on social media a while ago, but that's not really my call
2019-07-29 04:13:06 <mckaygerhard> hey
2019-07-29 04:13:17 <mckaygerhard> not much to read.. well any body hav been taking one shot at the gambas wiki ? very simple software (cgi) that generates automatically markdown files.. and renders! mutlilingual support are great.. if a page does not yer exist in Xx lang.. just parse english version..
2019-07-29 04:14:14 <mckaygerhard> i can see some things: by example contributing to the new wiki/cod will make necesary to the contributor to already have too much knowledg about some pieces of sftware...
2019-07-29 04:14:29 <SpaceToast> docs and wiki are unrelated
2019-07-29 04:14:42 <SpaceToast> if you wish to make changes to the wiki, please talk to the #alpine-infra people
2019-07-29 04:14:52 <mckaygerhard> of course but we need contributions
2019-07-29 04:14:56 <SpaceToast> -docs is for the official alpine linux documentation, rather than user-submitted content
2019-07-29 04:15:28 <mckaygerhard> i understand but i'm talking about a most easy way of made that docs
2019-07-29 04:15:39 <mckaygerhard> it's just a note.. no more
2019-07-29 04:15:47 <SpaceToast> if you want to contribute to -docs, send an MR to the appropriate repository.
2019-07-29 04:16:06 <mckaygerhard> i can see it.. i just pust a note in the issue..
2019-07-29 04:16:45 <SpaceToast> the technology the wiki uses is not on topic here, and I pointed you as to where it would be on topic :)
2019-07-29 04:16:55 <desultory> mckaygerhard: no offense, but if you're going to offer feedback on somethng, perhaps you should offer it to those responsible for the thing on which you are offering feedback.
2019-07-29 04:17:16 <desultory> /something/something/
2019-07-29 04:17:40 <mckaygerhard> dont worry desultory i'm very flexible
2019-07-29 04:18:16 <mckaygerhard> ok to the documentation i put a note in the issue: https://gitlab.com/antora/antora/issues/208#note_196856465
2019-07-29 04:18:24 <mckaygerhard> it's the right place for ?
2019-07-29 04:19:42 <SpaceToast> antora is not an alpine project
2019-07-29 04:19:50 <SpaceToast> antora is the system that is used to generate alpine's documentation
2019-07-29 04:20:04 <mckaygerhard> :-/
2019-07-29 04:20:05 <SpaceToast> that issue discusses a mechanism that said system could have in order to have multilingual support
2019-07-29 04:20:14 <SpaceToast> I linked it because you were asking about multilingual support
2019-07-29 04:20:18 <mckaygerhard> my fisrt topic
2019-07-29 04:20:42 <mckaygerhard> so ok.. so the seems multilingual suppor will be not so soon...
2019-07-29 04:21:44 <SpaceToast> well there's certainly been progress, feel free to add a +1 to the original post (please use standard issue board etiquette - +1s are added via "reaction" systems, rather than as individual comments)
2019-07-29 04:23:01 <mckaygerhard> the problem its tha as i can see contribute to the docs seems are very complicated!
2019-07-29 04:23:03 <SpaceToast> alternatively, you could implement multilingual support and offer it as a patch to upstream
2019-07-29 04:23:32 <SpaceToast> you... change the source file, submit an MR, make further changes as per review to meet quality standards, and add yourself to the AUTHORS list
2019-07-29 04:23:44 <SpaceToast> what part is particularly complex to you?
2019-07-29 04:23:52 <mckaygerhard> i ask to added other docs in other langs.. and finish in a suggestin to send a patch to multilingual supoort X-D  :-D
2019-07-29 04:24:26 <mckaygerhard> i hav eno interes in figure at the AUTHOR lists.. dont worry for that..
2019-07-29 04:24:42 <SpaceToast> the AUTHORS list is not there for bragging rights.
2019-07-29 04:24:56 <SpaceToast> in order for official docs to be available in other languages, they'd need to be approved by developers fluent in said languages (or a significantly large amount of trusted users, all fluent in said language to do so)
2019-07-29 04:25:26 <SpaceToast> if that's going to be the case, perhaps one could start a separate language branch with a custom slug and keep it up to date by hand in the meantime
2019-07-29 04:26:32 <mckaygerhard> hey SpaceToast i can see the documentation are very very technicall.. and i can see maybe we can create a "quick-way" section for impatinet people!
2019-07-29 04:27:05 <SpaceToast> the documentation is the documentation
2019-07-29 04:27:14 <SpaceToast> it is not a guide, nor a tutorial
2019-07-29 04:27:27 <SpaceToast> it is intended to allow people to understand what it is they are doing, as opposed to those other mediums
2019-07-29 04:27:33 <SpaceToast> those can exist just fine on the wiki
2019-07-29 04:28:11 <mckaygerhard> umm right! .. but lack of introductory parts..  i mean.. i very confirtable with due i'm linux advanced user.. but...
2019-07-29 04:29:00 <SpaceToast> can you give some specific examples as to what part lacks introduction?
2019-07-29 04:29:07 <mckaygerhard> by example.. the glosary are great but we can divide in parts
2019-07-29 04:29:09 <SpaceToast> I tried to include as much as possible within the glossary
2019-07-29 04:29:45 <mckaygerhard> that0s the problem .. if we include all the needs only related to alpine.. will be very large..
2019-07-29 04:30:02 <mckaygerhard> we can define an "Alpine ecosistem"
2019-07-29 04:30:04 <SpaceToast> again, can you give specific examples as to what is missing?
2019-07-29 04:30:39 <mckaygerhard> we can define an "Alpine ecosistem" and the divide in 2 parts.. from newbie and light concepts adn later  more expanded
2019-07-29 04:30:52 <SpaceToast> please, give specific examples as to what is unaccounted for.
2019-07-29 04:31:14 <SpaceToast> do not offer solutions for a problem that has not been demonstrated to exist, that are not shown to be optimal.
2019-07-29 04:31:43 <mckaygerhard> i now understan my users.. :'( ok forget that!
2019-07-29 04:32:00 <mckaygerhard> i just read and propose minor patches to the docs..
2019-07-29 04:32:20 <SpaceToast> feel free to suggest reorganizations if that is what you wish
2019-07-29 04:32:31 <SpaceToast> but you'll obviously need to justify them beyond "we *can* do that"
2019-07-29 04:33:05 <SpaceToast> further, such suggestions usually go better when they're actionable patches, rather than "I just came in here and have an idea with no basis for it, please make it for me"
2019-07-29 04:33:14 <mckaygerhard> of course.. but the problem are nto that.. the problem seems the languaje barrier.. but take easy.. i'll find a way to ilustrate it
2019-07-29 04:33:25 <desultory> SpaceToast: we can make the released docs a whitespace program that generates readable docs!
2019-07-29 04:33:40 <SpaceToast> if you want multilingual support, multiple resolutions have been suggested, feel free to go through whatever
2019-07-29 04:34:02 <mckaygerhard> so the i make parallel clone as you suggested..
2019-07-29 04:34:27 <SpaceToast> desultory: that seems quite simple, one piece of whitespace = one bit, \n = next character; since \n is itself encodable via said scheme it works out without the need for escapes
2019-07-29 04:34:37 <mckaygerhard> and translate all .. that0s all.. but not using the antora.. i not have 24/7 net connection to test every change
2019-07-29 04:34:54 <SpaceToast> why would you need a 24/7 net connection to test changes?
2019-07-29 04:35:09 <SpaceToast> antora works perfectly fine offline
2019-07-29 04:35:15 <SpaceToast> I would recommend reading their documentation
2019-07-29 04:35:17 <mckaygerhard>  due i use alway a usb stikc with no enought espace..
2019-07-29 04:35:40 <SpaceToast> you don't have space for text files? how are you intending on keeping your version around..? I'm confused
2019-07-29 04:36:01 <mckaygerhard> dont worry.. all you need guy are the translated files..
2019-07-29 04:36:14 <mckaygerhard> -> guys
2019-07-29 04:36:24 <SpaceToast> and someone(s) to verify the translation, of course
2019-07-29 04:36:32 <mckaygerhard> 
ACTION "arrggg that stupid keyboard"

2019-07-29 04:36:46 <SpaceToast> and for it all to be in a comprehensible, standard-specified format/structure
2019-07-29 04:36:57 <mckaygerhard> same as the doc officail
2019-07-29 04:37:02 <mckaygerhard> but translated
2019-07-29 04:37:09 <SpaceToast> but... you'd be using a different system?
2019-07-29 04:37:16 <SpaceToast> seemingly using a different markup
2019-07-29 04:37:52 <mckaygerhard> noted that antora use markdown with minor changes. so i guess ther0s no problem with that
2019-07-29 04:38:09 <mckaygerhard> in any case i just clone the uknown structures
2019-07-29 04:38:10 <SpaceToast> no
2019-07-29 04:38:14 <SpaceToast> antora does not use markdown
2019-07-29 04:38:21 <mckaygerhard> but i just checked
2019-07-29 04:38:22 <SpaceToast> antora uses asciidoc
2019-07-29 04:38:31 <mckaygerhard> re.checked .. waith
2019-07-29 04:38:34 <SpaceToast> which is a variation/expansion upon docbook
2019-07-29 04:38:43 <SpaceToast> I'm sorry but no amount of re-checking will change this fact
2019-07-29 04:39:27 <mckaygerhard> dam! .. i can see.. corry i asume it due i not push the "</>" putton
2019-07-29 04:39:43 <mckaygerhard> 
ACTION "stupid keyboard"

2019-07-29 04:39:59 <mckaygerhard> dam! .. i can see it.. sorry i asume it due i do not push the "</>" button
2019-07-29 04:40:18 <mckaygerhard> just reading all the files..