2019-05-01 22:09:22 <tcely> https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Abuild_and_Helpers is out of date. See http://ix.io/1HN0 for current help output.
2019-05-02 12:02:10 <SpaceToast> hey tcely, that's on the wiki so you can feel free to update it, I'm mostly focusing on more long-form docs (except the planned manuals) at docs.a.o
2019-05-02 12:28:19 <tcely> SpaceToast: I believe it ended up getting corrected by some kind person
2019-05-02 12:28:28 <SpaceToast> ah, good :)
2019-05-02 12:28:46 <SpaceToast> anyway, the nice thing with the wiki is that if something is wrong, you don't actually have to go through me to correct it
2019-05-03 15:26:49 <ncopa> i may need some help with moving some documentation for the alpine docker images
2019-05-03 15:27:09 <ncopa> any volunteer here? or should I ask in #alpine-devel
2019-05-03 15:34:49 <SpaceToast> any further details?
2019-05-03 15:34:58 <SpaceToast> for me it depends on what exactly is involved :)
2019-05-03 15:43:43 <ncopa> readme.md https://github.com/gliderlabs/docker-alpine
2019-05-03 15:44:04 <ncopa> and those: https://github.com/gliderlabs/docker-alpine/tree/master/docs
2019-05-03 15:44:52 <ncopa> compared to the new location with no documentation at all: https://github.com/alpinelinux/docker-alpine
2019-05-03 15:45:14 <SpaceToast> so it's not just about moving, then?
2019-05-03 15:45:34 <ncopa> move what can be moved and simplify what cannot
2019-05-03 15:45:51 <SpaceToast> aha
2019-05-03 15:46:14 <ncopa> and the gliderlabs doc should be more or less empty with the message: "repository moved to ..."
2019-05-03 15:46:14 <SpaceToast> if you want me to do it, I could, but I'd like to have license to change things I don't like :)
2019-05-03 15:46:54 <ncopa> ok
2019-05-03 15:46:54 <SpaceToast> (also, I would prefer moving it over to asciidoc and removing various "sponsored by X" - I think those are important, but don't think they should be in the docs; if we want to keep them, perhaps a ./SPONSORS file could work?)
2019-05-03 15:47:10 <SpaceToast> if all of that is ok, I'll get on it once I get off work
2019-05-03 15:47:57 <ncopa> im ok with all of it
2019-05-03 15:48:12 <ncopa> please note that the gliderlabs had some image generations scripts that we no longer use
2019-05-03 15:48:34 <SpaceToast> okay, if you could summarize various (code and sponsor) changes in here that would be helpful
2019-05-03 15:48:47 <ncopa> this onw no longer applies: https://github.com/gliderlabs/docker-alpine/blob/master/docs/build.md
2019-05-03 15:48:49 <SpaceToast> so I don't have to read/compare the sources to figure out what's out
2019-05-03 15:49:12 <ncopa> i guess you could leave the build bits out
2019-05-03 15:49:28 <SpaceToast> I'll just give generic "how to build a docker image" instructions, just so people don't complain :)
2019-05-03 15:49:30 <SpaceToast> maybe in the main readme
2019-05-03 15:50:41 <ncopa> we should have a doc explaining how to generate the official images
2019-05-03 15:50:45 <ncopa> https://github.com/alpinelinux/docker-alpine/blob/master/prepare-branch.sh#L115
2019-05-03 15:51:08 <SpaceToast> ok, so that replaces their build script
2019-05-03 15:51:25 <ncopa> yes
2019-05-03 15:51:42 <ncopa> they generated the image with apk.static (iirc) from scratch for x86 and x86_64
2019-05-03 15:51:50 <ncopa> but we now use the official release tarballs
2019-05-03 15:51:55 <ncopa> so it works on all arches
2019-05-03 15:52:07 <ncopa> so it is equal on all arches
2019-05-04 00:01:57 <SpaceToast> ncopa: got some first drafts over at https://github.com/5paceToast/docker-alpine/tree/docs (specifically https://github.com/5paceToast/docker-alpine/commit/b924dfa32619587d284eb5cc122af4513bbe7c11)
2019-05-04 00:02:17 <SpaceToast> please into feedback (or, if you find it adequate as-is, please do tell and I'll open a PR)
2019-05-04 00:24:25 <tcely> SpaceToast: lgtm
2019-05-04 07:34:34 <ncopa> SpaceToast: can we have syntax higlight in adoc?
2019-05-04 07:34:49 <ncopa> something corresponding md: ````Dockerfile
2019-05-04 07:35:03 <ncopa> otherwise good
2019-05-04 10:11:13 <SpaceToast> yes, but I'm not sure if github does it right (i.e I did enable it for the "docker" tag, but it doesn't seem to be doing much)
2019-05-04 10:33:52 <SpaceToast> ncopa: done, had to go through github's html pipeline; looks like they don't recognize "docker" and demand "dockerfile"
2019-05-04 15:30:15 <ncopa> ok
2019-05-07 19:52:11 <SpaceToast> TBK[m]: (ref: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/PMNcLrtpzHpyHQPLssSVzJQW )
2019-05-07 19:52:29 <SpaceToast> 1: no; it's theoretically possible, but basically requires you to run your own search engine (such as elasticsearch)
2019-05-07 19:52:33 <SpaceToast> so really it's not a question for me
2019-05-07 19:52:42 <SpaceToast> 2: I do not understand the question, please elaborate
2019-05-07 19:52:58 <SpaceToast> 3: yes, but it will have to wait until I work on the from-scratch theme
2019-05-07 19:53:07 <SpaceToast> but tl;dr you can write any html/css you want
2019-05-07 19:53:17 <SpaceToast> if you want to work on it, you're welcome to coordinate with me, though
2019-05-07 19:55:07 <TBK[m]> 1. https://gitlab.com/antora/antora-ui-default/issues/44#note_68053321 . I will look into that.
2019-05-07 19:56:00 <SpaceToast> algolia isn't open source, mind you
2019-05-07 19:56:03 <SpaceToast> so I'd rather avoid that specific option
2019-05-07 19:56:04 <_ikke_> What does something like readthedocs use as search technology
2019-05-07 19:56:06 <_ikke_> ??
2019-05-07 19:56:27 <SpaceToast> _ikke_: they run elasticsearch
2019-05-07 19:56:29 <SpaceToast> https://docs.readthedocs.io/en/stable/features.html#search
2019-05-07 19:57:53 <_ikke_> and sphinx?
2019-05-07 19:57:53 <TBK[m]> 2. Say I spot something that is incorrect or want to elaborate on,  a direct link to the git repo would provide easy way to PR/MR/clone diff patch...
2019-05-07 19:58:18 <TBK[m]> which sphinx, python docs or search engine?
2019-05-07 19:58:24 <_ikke_> former
2019-05-07 19:59:16 <SpaceToast> not familiar with sphinx very much, but looks like "implement it yourself" http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/master/usage/advanced/websupport/searchadapters.html
2019-05-07 19:59:48 <[[sroracle]]> sphinx uses some JS thing i think. not very sophisticated
2019-05-07 20:00:49 <[[sroracle]]> yes. it comes with OOB js-based search
2019-05-07 20:01:03 <TBK[m]> lunr?
2019-05-07 20:01:50 <TBK[m]> Just found Lunr for Antora - https://github.com/Mogztter/antora-lunr
2019-05-07 20:02:06 <SpaceToast> ah, by mogztter
2019-05-07 20:02:10 <SpaceToast> it'll probably be official one day, then
2019-05-07 20:02:36 <SpaceToast> still, looks like a not-my-problem thing :)
2019-05-07 20:07:22 <TBK[m]> hehe
2019-05-07 20:07:23 <TBK[m]> Looks like I need to setup an Antora instance :)
2019-05-07 20:08:10 <SpaceToast> it's not very difficult
2019-05-07 20:08:13 <SpaceToast> do you need any help?
2019-05-07 20:08:22 <SpaceToast> (it's basically a static site generator, if you discount the search feature)
2019-05-07 20:08:27 <TBK[m]> nah, just time :D
2019-05-07 20:08:56 <SpaceToast> I'm still thinking on what to do about the developer handbook stuff
2019-05-07 20:09:12 <SpaceToast> maybe I consider the reorg to be post-mortem and just move the repo like I don't care
2019-05-07 20:12:11 <TBK[m]> I am not fully aware of the issue(s) at hand.
2019-05-07 20:13:10 <SpaceToast> do you care/want a summary?
2019-05-07 20:13:24 <TBK[m]> yes
2019-05-07 20:13:57 <SpaceToast> the current state of alpine's organization has significant drawbacks, to the point that I would consider it to be a problematic situation
2019-05-07 20:14:13 <SpaceToast> I tried fixing it by making a formalized system for work distribution and governance
2019-05-07 20:14:45 <SpaceToast> it was going along normally (with lots of open discussion, and continuous improvement), until suddenly some section of the community decided I have bad intentions (I don't know why, they refuse to talk to me, and I don't even know who's in that group)
2019-05-07 20:15:14 <SpaceToast> this significantly slowed any progress (eventually to the point that two people left the project, and the discussion centered about how I should talk to try and avoid people horribly misunderstanding what I'm saying)
2019-05-07 20:15:49 <SpaceToast> I identified myself as an obstacle for furthering the improvement of the problematic situation (see above) and left the established working group, making sure everyone knows I'm available for any and all work/help, if I am asked
2019-05-07 20:16:50 <SpaceToast> that was about 1.5 weeks ago, and nothing has happened since then, which makes me conclude that the effort is officially dead (esp. given that the advice I gave was to have regular sessions ala scrum meetings to discuss what has been done and what is planned for the next sprint)
2019-05-07 20:17:17 <SpaceToast> the relation to the situation at hand is that the latest version of my proposal (not the only one discussed) is currently sitting at https://beta.docs.alpinelinux.org/developer-handbook/0.1a/index.html
2019-05-07 20:17:45 <SpaceToast> but it's become clear that it should be separate from the developer-handbook, (perhaps /governance/?), which means I can't work on the actual developer handbook very well :)
2019-05-07 20:18:04 <SpaceToast> since the effort is effectively dead, I'm considering just asking the infra people to `mv developer-handbook governance` and moving on with life
2019-05-07 20:18:19 <SpaceToast> does that clear it up?
2019-05-07 20:21:35 <TBK[m]> Yes. I have very loosely been following the ML. I sensed that not all wanted the direction but didn't express their wishes. It is hard to unify people :(
2019-05-07 20:23:07 <SpaceToast> something something Machiavelli has this fun quote about implementing new systems ;)
2019-05-07 20:23:49 <SpaceToast> if you want further details, you could go over the public logs of this channel, which should give you virtually all the information you need
2019-05-07 20:27:38 <TBK[m]> k, I will do that on a slow night. I think you should seek to split developer into its own thing (I would call it governance).
2019-05-07 20:28:41 <SpaceToast> that's what I'm thinking, yeah
2019-05-07 20:28:49 <SpaceToast> I just can't do it myself :)
2019-05-07 20:28:59 <SpaceToast> the other issue is that there are already links (the above one) floating around
2019-05-07 20:29:03 <SpaceToast> and I didn't want to break those
2019-05-07 20:29:12 <SpaceToast> but at this point, if nothing else is going to happen, it's probably not a big deal
2019-05-07 20:31:16 <TBK[m]> Can't it be solved by add a big colored notice about it having moved to a new url
2019-05-07 20:31:33 <SpaceToast> it could, but I don't want to do that
2019-05-07 20:31:52 <SpaceToast> I really dislike compromising work A for the sake of work B, or circumstances
2019-05-07 20:33:01 <TBK[m]> I can relate to that sentiment
2019-05-07 20:33:33 <SpaceToast> I do enough murdering of good projects for political reasons at work, I'm not going to do that when I volunteer to make something better, yaknow? :)
2019-05-07 20:35:25 <TBK[m]> hehe, reminds me that I need to read my xmas present "The Dictator's Handbook - Why bad behavior is almost always good politics"
2019-05-07 20:37:17 <SpaceToast> anyway, from all of the above, I'm guessing you wanna help out with docs?
2019-05-07 20:38:50 <TBK[m]> yup, do you have a todo of sorts?
2019-05-07 20:40:30 <SpaceToast> very rough
2019-05-07 20:40:34 <SpaceToast> right now the main 2 things are:
2019-05-07 20:40:52 <SpaceToast> - finalize editing process of the user handbook (typos, phrasing, about 33% done)
2019-05-07 20:40:59 <SpaceToast> - work on developer handbook (blocked by abovementioned)
2019-05-07 20:41:16 <SpaceToast> if you're interested, you could also try working on search (though I personally don't care), or try to plan out the from-scratch theme
2019-05-07 20:41:57 <SpaceToast> if patches are a question, I prefer they be put up on https://brpaste.xyz with a ?lang=diff link sent to me
2019-05-07 20:42:48 <TBK[m]> I plan to look at search and license head/footer
2019-05-07 20:42:51 <TBK[m]> k
2019-05-07 20:42:56 <SpaceToast> alrighty :)
2019-05-07 20:43:07 <SpaceToast> the current theme is on https://git.alpinelinux.org/user/daniel/alpine-antora-theme/
2019-05-07 20:43:29 <SpaceToast> I don't have push access to that, but I'm sure you could convince someone from the infra theme to put that up
2019-05-07 20:43:34 <SpaceToast> for the from-scratch theme that should be under docs/
2019-05-26 00:39:23 <jwh> o
2019-05-26 00:43:49 <[[sroracle]]> p
2019-05-26 16:50:29 <SpaceToast> ping _ikke_, please do tell when you have some time for the git thing :)
2019-05-26 17:01:03 <_ikke_> SpaceToast: pong
2019-05-26 17:01:17 <SpaceToast> I've prepared as much as possible at this point
2019-05-26 17:01:34 <SpaceToast> first, we need to rm docs/developer-handbook (the updated and renamed "governance" repo is already up)
2019-05-26 17:01:46 <SpaceToast> once that's done I can push the new stub developer-handbook and start working on it
2019-05-26 17:01:46 <_ikke_> on the docs container?
2019-05-26 17:01:51 <SpaceToast> on the git host
2019-05-26 17:02:18 <SpaceToast> after that, on the docs container, a new mqtt-exec hook (same as for the other two, just for docs/governance)
2019-05-26 17:02:25 <SpaceToast> then I can push updated manifest for docs/docs.a.o
2019-05-26 17:02:28 <_ikke_> Can't you force push to the repo?
2019-05-26 17:02:45 <SpaceToast> I can, but that can sometimes leave artifacts, I'd rather just guarantee cleanup :)
2019-05-26 17:02:48 <mps> SpaceToast: can you post url of your changes for developer handbook
2019-05-26 17:02:57 <_ikke_> I don't have permissions on git.a.o
2019-05-26 17:03:00 <SpaceToast> ah, I see
2019-05-26 17:03:05 <SpaceToast> do you have the ability to "export" repos?
2019-05-26 17:03:23 <_ikke_> What do you mean with exporting it?
2019-05-26 17:03:32 <SpaceToast> https://git.alpinelinux.org/docs - see the difference between the top two and the bottom two :)
2019-05-26 17:03:50 <SpaceToast> mps: https://git.alpinelinux.org/docs/governance/log/ last 3 commits
2019-05-26 17:03:56 <_ikke_> different namespace?
2019-05-26 17:04:13 <SpaceToast> cgit requires some stuff to be present to allow them to be "visible"
2019-05-26 17:04:20 <mps> SpaceToast: thanks
2019-05-26 17:04:24 <SpaceToast> https://git.alpinelinux.org/ - the "Docs" section only lists the two
2019-05-26 17:04:36 <_ikke_> ah, I see
2019-05-26 17:04:38 <SpaceToast> and there're no descriptions
2019-05-26 17:05:19 <SpaceToast> mps: it's not really an update; mostly just moving the namespace so I can work on the *actual* dev docs
2019-05-26 17:05:56 <_ikke_> SpaceToast: What descriptions should they have?
2019-05-26 17:06:25 <SpaceToast> "Antora component for the Alpine Linux Developer Handbook." and "Antora component for the Alpine Linux Governance Document [DRAFT PROPOSAL]."
2019-05-26 17:06:51 <SpaceToast> the latter would get the "[DRAFT PROPOSAL]" part removed if/when the WG finishes and gets your variant ratified (at which point it'll go up there and become de-facto docs)
2019-05-26 17:07:51 <mps> SpaceToast: no, I will find some time to read it in current state
2019-05-26 17:08:00 <SpaceToast> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-05-26 17:08:07 <SpaceToast> I'm pretty sure it's effectively dropped at this point
2019-05-26 17:08:12 <mps> s/no, /np, /
2019-05-26 17:08:23 <_ikke_> That's done
2019-05-26 17:08:28 <SpaceToast> I do think it's still the correct way to go (if *anything* it should be more democratic), but it's clearly politically infeasible
2019-05-26 17:08:44 <SpaceToast> _ikke_: two more things: 1. set up an mqtt-exec hook for docs/governance (on the docs container)
2019-05-26 17:08:53 <SpaceToast> same story as with the one for the other repos
2019-05-26 17:09:03 <SpaceToast> and 2. force rebuild :)
2019-05-26 17:09:26 <SpaceToast> (please tell me once 1 is done, I'll push docs.a.o manifest and see if it "just works", which it might)
2019-05-26 17:09:41 <_ikke_> looking now
2019-05-26 17:11:08 <_ikke_> I think it might already work
2019-05-26 17:11:18 <_ikke_> it reacts on anything in the docs/* namespace
2019-05-26 17:11:25 <SpaceToast> oh, cool
2019-05-26 17:11:29 <SpaceToast> let me try pushing manifest then
2019-05-26 17:11:47 <SpaceToast> it just worked :)
2019-05-26 17:11:50 <_ikke_> :-)
2019-05-26 17:11:56 <SpaceToast> thanks _ikke_ (and clandmeter, who I assume set that up)
2019-05-26 17:12:03 <_ikke_> yes, he did
2019-05-26 17:12:22 <SpaceToast> _ikke_: one last thing - if anyone asks where my proposal disappeared to, please point them to the right place? :)
2019-05-26 17:12:38 <SpaceToast> (I don't want to put a link into the new developer-handbook, because that'd break conceptual namespacing)
2019-05-26 17:12:53 <_ikke_> sure
2019-05-26 17:13:07 <SpaceToast> \o/ looks like we're done
2019-05-26 17:13:17 <SpaceToast> ta again, I'm going to go back to trying to regain full functionality
2019-05-26 17:13:28 <_ikke_> success with that