2015-10-01 00:37:59 pkgs has "Dependecies" misspelt 2015-10-01 00:38:13 (should be dependencies I think) 2015-10-01 05:49:57 is there a way to force-install a package without adding its deps 2015-10-01 06:13:44 s6-dns and s6-networking fail to install with 2015-10-01 06:13:45 ERROR: unsatisfiable constraints: 2015-10-01 06:13:45 so:libskarnet.so.2 (missing): 2015-10-01 06:13:45 required by: s6-dns-2.0.0.4-r0[so:libskarnet.so.2] s6-dns-2.0.0.4-r0[so:libskarnet.so.2] s6-dns-2.0.0.4-r0[so:libskarnet.so.2] 2015-10-01 06:13:56 I'm kind of confused 2015-10-01 06:17:06 0x000000000000000e (SONAME) Library soname: [libskarnet.so.2.3] 2015-10-01 06:17:39 skalibs changed soname 2015-10-01 06:17:54 so everything linked against libskarnet.so.2 needs a rebuild 2015-10-01 06:18:29 skarnet: hi, nice to have you haging around here :) 2015-10-01 06:18:35 my fault, I will fix it 2015-10-01 06:19:14 uggedal: apk search --exact so:libskarnet.so.2 -r -q --origin 2015-10-01 06:20:06 ncopa: thanks 2015-10-01 06:20:19 actually, that change is a bit surprising 2015-10-01 06:20:24 i wondre if that was intentional 2015-10-01 06:20:49 the skalibs upgrade? 2015-10-01 06:20:59 the soname change 2015-10-01 06:21:09 ah 2015-10-01 06:22:11 skarnet: is it correct that skalibs-2.3.6.1 had soname libskarnet.so.2 while skalibs-2.3.7.0 introduced new soname libskarnet.so.2.3? 2015-10-01 06:22:17 was that intentional? 2015-10-01 06:23:03 uggedal: thanks alot for fixing those CVE issues 2015-10-01 06:23:30 ncopa: np, had some trouble with getting a 2.7 builder working so skipped that 2015-10-01 06:25:59 ah 2015-10-01 06:33:42 %623 looks like accepted but not marked in patchwork 2015-10-01 06:36:51 uggedal: might be an idea that you also http://patchwork.alpinelinux.org/register/ 2015-10-01 06:39:34 not too sure about whether %640 would be too breaking, but afaict only the listen programs *actually* depend on execline 2015-10-01 06:43:02 I mean, it's currently only in main on edge, but 2015-10-01 06:45:23 ncopa: registered on patchwork. do I need some extra privileges to "close" already applied patches? 2015-10-01 06:49:09 ncopa: I'll await a response from skarnet until I rebuild skalibs dependent packages 2015-10-01 06:54:48 yeah 2015-10-01 06:55:09 i'll give you permissions to stuff in patchwork 2015-10-01 06:56:26 uggedal: i have given you perms in patchwork. i dont know if you need to logout/login to make them effective (its django) 2015-10-01 07:13:45 ncopa: thanks 2015-10-01 07:23:30 ncopa: bug in lua-aports: http://sprunge.us/dGjS 2015-10-01 07:31:26 ha 2015-10-01 07:31:34 stupid me :) 2015-10-01 07:37:33 oh great... i have locked myself out of gitolite... 2015-10-01 07:37:47 heh 2015-10-01 07:37:57 I imagine you have ssh to fix it 2015-10-01 07:38:07 i have 2015-10-01 07:40:25 http://gitolite.com/gitolite/gitolite.html#multi-key 2015-10-01 07:40:36 morning 2015-10-01 07:40:37 sitaramc@gmail.com.pub sitaramc@gmail.com 2015-10-01 07:41:13 so my ncopa@ncopa-desktop.ed25519.pub was interpreted as email username 2015-10-01 07:42:08 dia seg faults for me on edge. could someone test dia in 3.2.x? 2015-10-01 07:52:16 there are no dia for v3.2 2015-10-01 07:52:19 since its in testing 2015-10-01 07:52:33 however, there is a new dia version out 2015-10-01 07:52:35 0.97.3 2015-10-01 07:53:47 "don't crash at start-up with ABI breaking GLib 2-36" 2015-10-01 07:53:50 http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/dia/0.97/dia-0.97.3.news 2015-10-01 07:53:55 im upgrading it 2015-10-01 07:54:18 abi breaking gli-2-36... 2015-10-01 07:54:19 heh 2015-10-01 07:55:27 ncopa: I don't get any edit controls in patchwork gui before I delegate the patch to myself in the django admin. is that normal or is there a better way? 2015-10-01 07:55:44 i have no idea 2015-10-01 07:55:49 heh 2015-10-01 07:55:55 i think nmeum has same issue 2015-10-01 07:56:12 using django admin works for me 2015-10-01 07:56:38 just noticed that the patch preview gets a bit mungled when the patch is edited in django admin 2015-10-01 07:56:55 but the raw patch seems fine 2015-10-01 07:57:08 what is now the prefered way to generate an ssh key? now that my original key is rejected by default sshd config. 2015-10-01 07:57:35 clandmeter: depends on what your clients and servers support 2015-10-01 07:58:02 clandmeter, i've created two: rsa and ed25519 2015-10-01 07:58:10 well, i would like to have one that is accecpted by most servers. 2015-10-01 07:58:17 rsa then 2015-10-01 08:01:25 clandmeter: i had same issue 2015-10-01 08:01:34 i had ssh-dss key 2015-10-01 08:01:49 with openssh 7 the client didnt want use it anymore 2015-10-01 08:02:52 yep 2015-10-01 08:03:06 im using ssh-keygen -t rsa -b 4096 -C "your_email@example.com" 2015-10-01 08:04:00 as suggested by the github wiki 2015-10-01 08:18:37 i added both rsa key and ed25519 key 2015-10-01 08:36:18 ScrumpyJack: could you please upgrade and test dia now? 2015-10-01 08:36:59 can i move it to "community?" 2015-10-01 09:02:51 ncopa: hi, glad to be here 2015-10-01 09:03:10 <@ncopa> skarnet: is it correct that skalibs-2.3.6.1 had soname libskarnet.so.2 while skalibs-2.3.7.0 introduced new soname libskarnet.so.2.3? 2015-10-01 09:03:10 <@ncopa> was that intentional? 2015-10-01 09:03:14 yes it was 2015-10-01 09:03:36 I actually use 4-tier version numbers 2015-10-01 09:03:50 and the equivalent of "major" to me is the 2nd one 2015-10-01 09:03:58 i.e. the API changes when the 2nd number changes 2015-10-01 09:04:09 so libskarnet.so.2 doesn't really make sense 2015-10-01 09:04:44 the correct soname is libskarnet.so.2.3 since it's what will change if the API changes. 2015-10-01 09:05:24 I should have documented this, but I thought nobody would notice. That was underestimating you guys :) 2015-10-01 09:06:41 skarnet: in the main s6 suite, is it just the -svlisten and -ftrig-listen that have an actual dependency on execline, or are there actually others I'm missing 2015-10-01 09:07:13 s6-log actually uses execline for its "!stuff" processor invocation 2015-10-01 09:07:17 skarnet: good to know. thanks 2015-10-01 09:07:35 uggedal: ^^^ 2015-10-01 09:07:37 apart from that, off the top of my head, I think it's all 2015-10-01 09:07:42 execs into it? 2015-10-01 09:07:48 ncopa: skarnet: will fix 2015-10-01 09:08:25 ammunta: s6 has a shlib dep on execline I think 2015-10-01 09:08:41 yeah, a !"process my logs" directive will exec into "execlineb -Pc "process my logs" 2015-10-01 09:08:43 uggedal: yeah that's what I was trying to isolate 2015-10-01 09:09:21 for libraries, grep -lexecline src/*/deps-exe/* 2015-10-01 09:09:46 gre -- 2015-10-01 09:09:54 grep -- (too early to type) 2015-10-01 09:10:47 I guess it's not actually a huge deal but the execline distribution's executable names does annoying things to my interactive shell's completions 2015-10-01 09:11:11 oh, interesting. I hadn't thought about that. 2015-10-01 09:11:40 suggestion: put the execline binaries into their own directory in the default PATH but outside the autocompletion path? 2015-10-01 09:12:00 yeah 2015-10-01 09:12:15 well 2015-10-01 09:12:50 I have them outside my PATH but add it to the PATH for my supervision tree 2015-10-01 09:13:11 ... hm 2015-10-01 09:15:52 actually, nothing in s6 would actually break if I left the shared libraries in place but just didn't install the executables, right 2015-10-01 09:17:02 and put in an execlineb which is just a wrapper for path-munging and then execing into real execlineb 2015-10-01 09:18:42 can't tell off the top of my head; may be true for s6, but definitely not true for s6-rc for instance 2015-10-01 09:19:03 ncopa: yup, that worked 2015-10-01 09:19:04 thanks 2015-10-01 09:20:09 ScrumpyJack: is dia good enough to move to community? 2015-10-01 09:20:32 where is it now? edge/testing? 2015-10-01 09:21:01 yes 2015-10-01 09:21:15 yes, it's in edge/testing 2015-10-01 09:21:44 what's wrong with putting it in edge/main? i'm not quite sure i understand edge/community 2015-10-01 09:22:02 hm. what does s6-rc rely on 2015-10-01 09:22:08 main is for 2 year support, community is for 6 month support 2015-10-01 09:22:26 so in general, destkop stuff should go to community 2015-10-01 09:23:03 define "desktop stuff" :) 2015-10-01 09:23:12 ammunta: s6-rc binaries want execline and s6 binaries in their PATH 2015-10-01 09:23:28 things that you dont what to run on a headless box 2015-10-01 09:23:32 things with a gui 2015-10-01 09:25:02 but really, the things we put in community are things that we dont think we need support for 2 years 2015-10-01 09:25:15 and typical desktop user will probably use latest stable anyway 2015-10-01 09:25:25 and when new stable release is out, they upgrade 2015-10-01 09:25:33 what about things like mocp cmus cdw sc (e)links mutt pine tmux, all apps that might not need 2 years support 2015-10-01 09:25:51 tmux is something i'd run on a server 2015-10-01 09:26:12 so that i definitively want longer time support 2015-10-01 09:26:20 it does not have many sec issues either 2015-10-01 09:26:32 and the development of it is not painfully fast 2015-10-01 09:26:39 so there are no problem with that in main 2015-10-01 09:26:46 yeah but you know what i mean. i way trying to list productive apps 2015-10-01 09:26:53 meanwhile everything written in go? 2015-10-01 09:27:12 ammunta: anything go can not be supported for more than 6 months 2015-10-01 09:27:18 even if it is server software 2015-10-01 09:27:28 unless they make packaging sane 2015-10-01 09:27:43 unless they start maintain go itself for longer than 6 month 2015-10-01 09:27:46 upstream 2015-10-01 09:27:54 ah 2015-10-01 09:27:57 it's supported only for half a year? 2015-10-01 09:28:14 i have not seen anything indicating any time limit 2015-10-01 09:28:33 but when asking for sec fixes for go-1.3 2015-10-01 09:28:38 they said: not supported 2015-10-01 09:28:50 huh 2015-10-01 09:29:02 wut 2015-10-01 09:29:05 does supported for half a year mean no guarantee that the interfaces won't change after a year 2015-10-01 09:29:07 how can a sec fix be "not supported" ? 2015-10-01 09:29:24 (i.e. after half a year, expect breaking changes) 2015-10-01 09:29:27 they do sec fixes for go-1.4 2015-10-01 09:29:37 i'm still not clear on the advantages of community. 2015-10-01 09:29:39 or after half a year, no more updates on that branch 2015-10-01 09:29:51 but they dont have resources to provide sec fix patch for go-1.3 2015-10-01 09:29:57 and add to that pain 2015-10-01 09:30:03 since go does not do dynamic link 2015-10-01 09:30:07 TIL "google doesn't have resources" 2015-10-01 09:30:17 it means that every single go app needs to be rebuilt 2015-10-01 09:30:23 skarnet: I'm understanding it as they don't want to backport to versions they no longer supoprt 2015-10-01 09:30:44 speaking of which why /doesn't/ go do dynamic linking 2015-10-01 09:30:53 that I know 2015-10-01 09:31:04 basically, go is not suitable for anythign you dont want run for longer than 6 month 2015-10-01 09:31:15 Google agrees with me in the sense that shared libs are portability hell 2015-10-01 09:31:22 but they take that to an extreme 2015-10-01 09:31:23 so in 3.4, there will be packages that have 2 year support, ie patches/backports without vesion upgrade, and pacakges with 6 months support, ie they will get patched/fixed and upgraded as and when upgrades are available? 2015-10-01 09:31:48 Go does static linking so you can actually port your binary to other OSes 2015-10-01 09:32:05 lots of things can go wrong, but that's the idea 2015-10-01 09:32:24 ScrumpyJack: v3.3/main will be sec fixes for 2 years. v3.3/community will only get sec fixes til v3.4 comes out 2015-10-01 09:33:00 hmm 2015-10-01 09:33:28 let's add one month to that, to give people some time to upgrade 2015-10-01 09:33:29 incidentally when do new things in edge/main get merged into the stable-*/main 2015-10-01 09:33:45 minor version bumps? major version bumps? ever? 2015-10-01 09:34:40 i think the name community is confusing 2015-10-01 09:35:11 it is not 2015-10-01 09:35:48 I don't think ncopa is going to prevent a trusted user from doing sec fixes in community 2015-10-01 09:37:18 that's not what confuses me. 2015-10-01 09:37:31 so what does? 2015-10-01 09:38:45 we also intend to give more contributors access to community repos 2015-10-01 09:39:22 the community repo are packages that are available for alpine, but that alpine devs dont want take responsability for 2015-10-01 09:39:50 i associate community with things like Universe in deb/ubuntu ( community maintained, not officially supported software ) or AUR in arch 2015-10-01 09:40:48 yup 2015-10-01 09:40:59 thats the idea 2015-10-01 09:41:03 community maintained 2015-10-01 09:41:06 s/AUR/[community]/ 2015-10-01 09:41:17 ncopa: i'm even more confused. you suggested that community was for desktop stuff, so no desktop stuff will be officially supported? 2015-10-01 09:42:03 could someone take a look at %641? 2015-10-01 09:42:11 what is this stuff "that alpine devs dont want take responsability for" ? 2015-10-01 09:43:58 ScrumpyJack: the problem was 2015-10-01 09:44:20 main repo size increase 2015-10-01 09:44:54 many upstream proejcts will not provide sec fixes for more than latest release (eg go, qemu etc) 2015-10-01 09:44:59 firefox, chromium etc 2015-10-01 09:45:21 for those, it is very time consuming to do sec fixes at best 2015-10-01 09:45:25 and impossible at worst 2015-10-01 09:45:39 which means we have open sec issues in stable branches that we will not be able to fix 2015-10-01 09:46:03 those are the ones that we want move to community 2015-10-01 09:46:18 we dont mind maintaining them, but it will not be for so long time 2015-10-01 09:46:26 and it will be a more best-effort thing 2015-10-01 09:46:57 for end user it means, that if package is in main, then they can be relatively confident that it will get sec fixes 2015-10-01 09:47:18 if it is in community, it will get fixes, but maybe not for two years 2015-10-01 09:47:30 in many cases that if fully ok 2015-10-01 09:47:40 like google chrome, firefox 2015-10-01 09:47:44 is there a way we could distinguish short-life from "community" 2015-10-01 09:48:13 i am open for better names than "community" 2015-10-01 09:48:22 the latter implies to me something more along the lines of perhaps curated, but without support per se 2015-10-01 09:48:52 but that's actually more what testing is in alpine 2015-10-01 09:49:45 we also talked about rename "testing" to "staging" 2015-10-01 09:49:59 because packages were never supposed to stay in testing 2015-10-01 09:50:39 so basically, what we want do is reduce maintenence work load 2015-10-01 09:50:50 thats what we want with "community" 2015-10-01 09:51:10 could you define what "unmaintained" is at the moment? 2015-10-01 09:51:12 things that stay in testing for extended periods fit with what I associate with "community" anyway 2015-10-01 09:51:42 ScrumpyJack: "unmaintained" is equivalent as "Trash" 2015-10-01 09:51:54 ammunta: exactly 2015-10-01 09:52:12 i just moved dia from testing to community 2015-10-01 09:52:21 well, I wanted to rename testing to staging and ditch stuff quickier 2015-10-01 09:52:30 i want to do that too 2015-10-01 09:52:32 no feedback for month → git rm 2015-10-01 09:52:43 something like that 2015-10-01 09:52:51 we could probably also just git rm unmaintained 2015-10-01 09:53:31 well, last time I proposed it, you said it's easier to find probably ready APKBUILD 2015-10-01 09:53:49 in comparison of going through git log 2015-10-01 09:53:58 s/of/with/ 2015-10-01 09:54:16 yes 2015-10-01 09:54:18 it is 2015-10-01 09:54:44 the idea was "this is a package we dont care for any more, if you want pick it up, please do" 2015-10-01 09:55:06 and packages that no longer built and got in the way was moved to there 2015-10-01 09:56:05 uggedal: re that lxc cve from yesterday, i saw that the fix created some issues some place 2015-10-01 09:57:30 hi, lxc is broken on ubuntu here since the security update tonight. We see "failed to setup the mount entries" a lot and the containers don't start. Any hints? 2015-10-01 09:58:26 skarnet: if we decide to leave things in unmaintained before trashing them after some time then we can see what used to exist with git log -- unmaintained :&& 2015-10-01 09:58:56 skarnet: execline doesn't seem to use libexecdir anywhere despite it being an option to configure 2015-10-01 09:59:06 ... the first one was not for skarnet 2015-10-01 09:59:31 you scared me for a second XD 2015-10-01 10:00:20 ammunta: indeed it doesn't (I think). I use the same (or close) configure script for most packages. 2015-10-01 10:01:22 although 2015-10-01 10:01:52 a lot of it actually seems like libexec material 2015-10-01 10:02:23 no, because you don't put libexec in your PATH 2015-10-01 10:02:38 and all of execline are executables whose names you write in scripts 2015-10-01 10:02:54 yes, but they're not executables you'd normally use interactively 2015-10-01 10:03:14 speak for yourself! 2015-10-01 10:03:25 :&& 2015-10-01 10:04:16 perhaps the repo name should have no package/repo related connotation, and then be defined they way you have explained it. a Alpine moutain range related word 2015-10-01 10:04:43 ammunta: I find myself more and more automating stuff via calling execline binaries directly 2015-10-01 10:05:12 i like edge, as it can be both mountain and dev 2015-10-01 10:05:29 so something like that 2015-10-01 10:06:16 ammunta: and I often type stuff using execline commands instead of shell commands, because I know exactly what's going to happen 2015-10-01 10:06:22 morning 2015-10-01 10:06:23 :) 2015-10-01 10:06:40 hey leo 2015-10-01 10:09:32 barthalion: how to update my ssh key on git.a.o? 2015-10-01 10:09:42 so in the same register as edge, there is pass, vain, summit, fold, peak, val, ascent, rock, crest etc... i'm sure we could find a neat one 2015-10-01 10:12:57 there's "adret" and "ubac" in French, I can't find good translations for those words. adret = face of the mountain that's exposed to the sun, ubac = face of the mountain staying in the shadow. I'm sure there's a use for those words in development. :) 2015-10-01 10:13:51 ah, but which side is maintained and which isn't 2015-10-01 10:14:38 the shadowy side is the one you don't want to see, the one you're a little bit ashamed of 2015-10-01 10:14:53 the sunny side is "come at me bros" 2015-10-01 10:18:50 all my alpine private linux hostnames are all alpine mountain peaks 2015-10-01 10:38:24 ncopa: lxc works here (10 alpine containers) with the sec fix. I see that https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc/1.0.7-0ubuntu0.6 contains an incomplete fix, due to be resolved with https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security-proposed/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/7992387 2015-10-01 10:41:43 I'll avait proper ubuntu uploads before repatching our packages 2015-10-01 10:57:27 ncopa: when will 3.3 be branched? 2015-10-01 11:02:29 uggedal: when 3.3.0 is tagged 2015-10-01 11:02:52 the goal is first tuesday in november 2015-10-01 11:03:24 so november 3 would be nice 2015-10-01 11:04:30 clandmeter: where can i find your ssh key? 2015-10-01 11:04:51 in my $home 2015-10-01 11:04:59 on git.a.o? 2015-10-01 11:05:34 yes 2015-10-01 11:05:49 ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1y....koS2w== clandmeter@gmail.com 2015-10-01 11:06:04 yep 2015-10-01 11:07:10 i remove your ssh-dss key? 2015-10-01 11:07:21 i replace it or add the rsa key? 2015-10-01 11:08:14 replace it 2015-10-01 11:08:30 too late 2015-10-01 11:08:32 i added it 2015-10-01 11:08:34 :) 2015-10-01 11:09:33 hmm 2015-10-01 11:09:41 did soemthing change regarding agent forwarding? 2015-10-01 11:09:47 dunno 2015-10-01 11:10:49 weird, i can use putty to direct connect to git, but i cannot do hop from my dev box 2015-10-01 11:11:25 your dev box has openssh 7? 2015-10-01 11:11:42 yes 2015-10-01 11:12:37 ok seems to work now 2015-10-01 11:12:56 i think i tried to use my old key to hop, which 7 doesnt allow. 2015-10-01 11:19:02 thats what i thought 2015-10-01 12:32:25 hmm, how come alpine doesn't seem to use a Web user like http ? 2015-10-01 12:37:20 hendry: My nginx on alpine runs as user nginx, thats pretty the same 2015-10-01 12:37:53 and the php processes are run as seperate users for each site 2015-10-01 12:39:51 nobody, right? 2015-10-01 12:41:50 no 2015-10-01 12:42:02 like phpuser0, phpuser1, phpuser2 and so on 2015-10-01 12:42:58 with fastcgi & php-fpm 2015-10-01 12:44:39 hendry: we also have a group for web servers 2015-10-01 12:45:14 so web apps' dirs which need write can have group write pemissions 2015-10-01 12:53:22 damn... nginx in alpine doesn't have --with-http_gunzip_module 2015-10-01 12:56:35 I fail to see a valid usecase for nginx gunzip module 2015-10-01 12:58:02 uggedal: i guess you are saying browsers support gzip pretty well nowadays 2015-10-01 12:58:16 so gunzip module is pretty pointless 2015-10-01 12:58:41 yeah 2015-10-01 12:59:06 and its only needed if you're storing the content as *.gz at rest 2015-10-01 13:05:28 ACTION wonders why my pdgn/pgup keys don't work in alpine's vim via a Docker shell 2015-10-01 13:07:31 wild guess: wrong terminfo 2015-10-01 13:07:57 ACTION uses http://st.suckless.org/ 2015-10-01 13:08:05 i guess i need to copy in the terminfo somehow? 2015-10-01 13:08:24 for https over curl, I guess i need php-curl php-openssl ca-certificates 2015-10-01 13:09:46 whatever your TERM is in your host, you need to make sure you have the terminfo to support it in your guest, or you may do TERM translation, as you wish 2015-10-01 13:17:01 re gunzip 2015-10-01 13:17:15 i have been wanting pre generated .log.gz files 2015-10-01 13:17:22 pre-compressed 2015-10-01 13:17:32 served by webserver as compressed 2015-10-01 13:17:42 so it is viewed as plaintext in browser 2015-10-01 13:18:20 don't need gunzip module for that afaik 2015-10-01 13:19:14 ncopa: http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_gzip_static_module.html 2015-10-01 13:19:50 we compile with --with-http_gzip_static_module 2015-10-01 13:20:38 i dont want the webserver to compress it for me 2015-10-01 13:20:53 i want build server compress build log directly 2015-10-01 13:21:12 to save disk space 2015-10-01 13:21:13 yeah, that's what gzip_static on does :) 2015-10-01 13:21:32 cool 2015-10-01 13:21:35 "The ngx_http_gzip_static_module module allows sending precompressed files with the “.gz” filename extension instead of regular files. " 2015-10-01 13:21:55 can lighttpd do that too? 2015-10-01 13:23:27 ncopa: maybe this: http://redmine.lighttpd.net/projects/1/wiki/docs_modcompress#Display-compressed-files 2015-10-01 13:24:06 http://redmine.lighttpd.net/issues/611 2015-10-01 13:24:49 yep 2015-10-01 13:25:02 perfect 2015-10-01 13:25:09 then i can compress build logs 2015-10-01 13:25:43 How to compile this for irssi? i am checking some stuff and i am not sure where to put irssi plugins https://github.com/falsovsky/FiSH-irssi 2015-10-01 13:27:07 there seems something already in irssi APKGBUILD http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/tree/main/irssi/APKBUILD?id=f30732a9486d7f2a34de4eb540b5c2d76559b882 2015-10-01 13:28:27 crow: the readme tells you how to build it. 2015-10-01 13:32:07 hmmm, is there no zgrep in Alpine ? 2015-10-01 13:35:30 clandmeter yea but i am not sure how to create package, if i sucess i would like to push it to alpine.. 2015-10-01 13:36:20 ACTION changes zgrep to use gunzip -c 2015-10-01 13:36:23 hendry try installing gzip, i have had some problem with lxc-checkconfig 2015-10-01 13:39:04 crow: im pusing it to testing now 2015-10-01 13:40:34 crow: http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/commit/?id=cb948b70 2015-10-01 13:40:35 hendry: zgrep is in the gzip package: https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/contents?pkgname=gzip&arch=x86_64&repo=main 2015-10-01 13:40:38 clandmeter ok its also good :) 2015-10-01 13:40:53 alpine:~$ which gzip 2015-10-01 13:40:53 alpine:~$ zgrep 2015-10-01 13:40:53 -ash: zgrep: not found 2015-10-01 13:40:53 alpine:~$ 2015-10-01 13:41:12 crow: dont go to the dark web! 2015-10-01 13:41:16 was supposed to be: which gzip -> /bin/gzip 2015-10-01 13:41:39 i.e. even with gzip installed, no zgrep 2015-10-01 13:41:59 (gzip-1.6-r1) 2015-10-01 13:42:07 hendry 2015-10-01 13:42:08 apk info --who-owns /usr/bin/zgrep 2015-10-01 13:42:08 /usr/bin/zgrep is owned by gzip-1.6-r1 2015-10-01 13:42:49 clandmeter you have that package already or you create it right now? 2015-10-01 13:43:15 its in edge/testing 2015-10-01 13:43:39 crow: on a newly installed Alpine, no /usr/bin/zgrep even with gzip-1.6-r1 2015-10-01 13:44:09 skarnet: does /usr/bin/gzip exist? 2015-10-01 13:44:50 ah, damn, /bin/gzip is busybox. My bad. 2015-10-01 13:44:58 skarnet i am on stable 3.2.3 and apk add gzip will add zrgep 2015-10-01 13:45:15 then there should also be a /usr/bin/zgrep 2015-10-01 13:45:28 it's confusing that apk search answers for all packages by default, even uninstalled ones 2015-10-01 13:46:46 apk add gzip installs everything correctly indeed. 2015-10-01 13:48:10 skarnet: which package manager are you used? i. e. apt-cache search foobar also shows foobar if it's not installed 2015-10-01 13:49:14 I'm not used to any package manager. I just have to remember "apk info". 2015-10-01 13:49:34 ok :-) 2015-10-01 13:53:05 it would be nice to have something like 'pkgfile' within alpine https://github.com/falconindy/pkgfile 2015-10-01 13:53:30 arch have it and that way you can search for a command and find package whom it belongs 2015-10-01 13:55:27 it searches for files i guess 2015-10-01 13:55:36 we have pkgs.a.o 2015-10-01 13:55:48 and we have a gzipped json on our mirror 2015-10-01 13:55:59 so you are free to build a tool to query the json file 2015-10-01 13:56:54 clandmeter pkgs.a.o does not have "file" field like hier: https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/contents?pkgname=irssi-dev&arch=x86_64&repo=main 2015-10-01 13:57:23 ? 2015-10-01 13:57:36 you can search on file, cant you? 2015-10-01 13:58:22 no 2015-10-01 13:59:48 no? 2015-10-01 14:00:17 at least i fail searching for files there :-) 2015-10-01 14:00:28 https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/contents?filename=bash&path=&pkgname=&repo=main&arch=x86_64 2015-10-01 14:00:37 https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/contents?filename=bzcat&path=&pkgname=&repo=main&arch=x86_64 2015-10-01 14:01:27 should i write a manual on how to use it? :) 2015-10-01 14:01:42 ok, you need to know the parameters to use it as there's no such form field or similar 2015-10-01 14:02:05 am i seeing something else then? 2015-10-01 14:02:21 first form item is File: 2015-10-01 14:02:54 "Package name" here 2015-10-01 14:03:28 oh 2015-10-01 14:03:30 i see 2015-10-01 14:03:49 i never noticed the "Contents" button in the header 2015-10-01 14:04:02 thanks, that helps a lot :-) 2015-10-01 14:08:46 :) 2015-10-01 14:13:57 ncopa: 2015-10-01 14:13:58 /usr/bin/lua5.2: /etc/buildrepo/plugins.d/report-build-status.lua:15: ')' expected 2015-10-01 14:13:58 stack traceback: 2015-10-01 14:13:58 [C]: in function 'dofile' 2015-10-01 14:13:58 /usr/bin/buildrepo:56: in function 2015-10-01 14:13:58 (...tail calls...) 2015-10-01 14:13:59 /usr/bin/buildrepo:185: in main chunk 2015-10-01 14:14:01 [C]: in ? 2015-10-01 14:30:48 this looks useful http://www.usched.org/ 2015-10-01 14:51:21 clandmeter not on mail site https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages 2015-10-01 14:51:47 mail==main 2015-10-01 14:59:18 crow: what is not on pkgs? 2015-10-01 15:05:42 Field to search for "contents" only for the "Package name" 2015-10-01 15:08:49 crow: didyou see the blue menu on top? 2015-10-01 15:08:59 Packages/Contents 2015-10-01 15:09:46 clandmeter its realy hidden, 2015-10-01 15:09:51 at least for me heh 2015-10-01 15:10:20 show me a screenshot please 2015-10-01 15:10:25 cause its fine for me 2015-10-01 15:20:56 crow: ? 2015-10-01 15:28:35 clandmeter well its i in header of page and there i did not look. maybe would be better to move the bars to tab under header 2015-10-01 15:30:23 clandmeter http://abload.de/img/alpinepkgspagenlut1.png 2015-10-01 15:32:09 incidentally why does alpine ship with so many service-specific users/groups 2015-10-01 15:41:51 crow: https://alpinelinux.org/ 2015-10-01 15:42:47 clandmeter i know how does homepage looks like 2015-10-01 15:43:00 and you did see those menu's on our homepage? 2015-10-01 15:49:15 what were you looking for crow 2015-10-01 15:55:54 the files search. I had the same problem: 14:03:49│ jomat> i never noticed the "Contents" button in the header 2015-10-01 15:57:12 clandmeter yes i do, but once you are in packages page the "Content" page is for me somehow hidden,for me it would be better to move like on my picture 2015-10-01 15:57:29 jomat exactly 2015-10-01 15:59:24 I also already started typing "Perhaps it would help some other blind ones to change 'Search for packages' to 'Search for packages | package contents'" but then decided to dismiss it :-) 2015-10-01 16:17:18 hey what are all the distinct keys shipped by default used for 2015-10-01 16:17:40 like, why are there so many 2015-10-02 05:10:23 ncopa: void had issues with glib-2.46.0: https://github.com/voidlinux/void-packages/blob/master/srcpkgs/glib/patches/quark_init_on_demand.patch 2015-10-02 06:02:22 morning 2015-10-02 06:02:30 uggedal: thanks for the heads-up 2015-10-02 06:02:36 i'll push that patch too 2015-10-02 06:02:44 do you have the upstream bug report too? 2015-10-02 06:14:30 ncopa: not sure if there is one 2015-10-02 06:15:50 is there any info on how to reproduce it? 2015-10-02 06:17:53 I'm trying to find it :) 2015-10-02 06:19:23 ncopa: try building gobject-introspection 2015-10-02 06:19:36 it fails here after glib upgrade 2015-10-02 06:19:51 (process:31102): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_hash_table_lookup: assertion 'hash_table != NULL' failed 2015-10-02 06:20:04 GLib-GObject:ERROR:gtype.c:2747:g_type_register_static: assertion failed: (static_quark_type_flags) 2015-10-02 06:20:26 that was the issue that void hit. it was discussed a bit on #musl 2015-10-02 06:24:04 <@dalias> amonakov, well the ctor at least needs to use pthread_once internally then 2015-10-02 06:24:06 <@dalias> so it's safely multiple-callable 2015-10-02 06:24:11 <@dalias> that's probably the right fix here in glib 2015-10-02 06:24:19 <@dalias> ctors using other ctors should call the other ctors, and internally they should all use pthread_once/call_once 2015-10-02 08:23:44 ok i have build error ready to push json status to mqtt 2015-10-02 08:23:55 i wonder if we want it to be retained messages 2015-10-02 08:24:07 but then we need build success to reset it 2015-10-02 08:24:08 hm 2015-10-02 08:24:09 no 2015-10-02 08:24:13 we dont want retained i suppose 2015-10-02 12:17:12 hey there :) 2015-10-02 12:26:37 ncopa: could the alpine linux llvm patches be submitted upstream? 2015-10-02 12:27:01 because as far as i can tell they are general fixes that also would help to bring rust to alpine if submitted upstream 2015-10-02 12:27:35 dunno 2015-10-02 12:27:50 ttilley or what he is called worked on that 2015-10-02 12:54:46 worked on the llvm patches or rust? 2015-10-02 12:55:40 because for rust i opened a ticket with the developers to make it compile: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/28667 2015-10-02 12:55:43 llvm 2015-10-02 12:57:11 the rust guys from mozilla are very interrested in getting rust to run on musl/alpine 2015-10-02 12:57:19 very nice guys over there at mozilla 2015-10-02 13:02:56 would have been nice if they were interested in making firefox work there too 2015-10-02 13:03:07 reminds me 2015-10-02 13:03:13 last I looked at rust on musl you had to create the ability to cross compile it like they have for android 2015-10-02 13:03:32 i'd like request alpine support for travis-ci 2015-10-02 13:03:54 they apparently have container suport for ubuntu 2015-10-02 13:04:02 i assume its docker they use 2015-10-02 13:04:22 and they brad that it takes only 10 seconds to set the container up 2015-10-02 13:04:31 brag* 2015-10-02 13:04:45 until then you can just use docker/unshare/lxc in their vm infrastructure 2015-10-02 13:12:57 ncopa: what does not work with firefox? 2015-10-02 13:13:11 i mean besides the ~20 patches it needs *g* 2015-10-02 13:13:34 i mean the 20 patches should be upstreamed 2015-10-02 13:14:11 yeah, dont get me started on the firefox build process ... 2015-10-02 13:14:19 horrible fucking mess 2015-10-02 13:15:04 after 20 years, I'm still wondering whether it's possible to design complex software (such as a browser) without it turning into a horrible fucking mess 2015-10-02 13:15:26 I've never seen it happen, but I still have hope 2015-10-02 13:16:04 when it comes to brwosers 2015-10-02 13:16:31 it would be cool to make a browser with minimal functionality 2015-10-02 13:16:44 and then add functionality with add-ons 2015-10-02 13:17:07 but add-ons would probably have to be shared libs, and then you can't escape dll hell 2015-10-02 13:17:16 and security nightmares 2015-10-02 13:17:20 so if you want integrated pdf reader you could add it as an add-on instead of having it bundled with the browser 2015-10-02 13:17:32 im ironic 2015-10-02 13:17:38 thats how firefox started out 2015-10-02 13:17:49 firefox never started minimal 2015-10-02 13:20:31 when it started as phoenix it was to replace the netscape thingy 2015-10-02 13:20:38 I wish common websites were supported in netsurf/duktape 2015-10-02 13:20:45 which had email reader and news reader and whatnot integrated 2015-10-02 13:21:14 yes 2015-10-02 13:21:15 so to get rid of the bloat they removed everything except browser and implemented add-on functionality 2015-10-02 13:21:34 well, that was the right idea, but the browser itself was already complex 2015-10-02 13:21:40 now firefox is bigger than the netscape communicator ever was 2015-10-02 13:21:44 yes 2015-10-02 13:21:48 the first firefox versions where perfectly small 2015-10-02 13:21:56 and now it integrates phone software 2015-10-02 13:21:58 pdf reader 2015-10-02 13:22:09 all this multimedia bloat is making it so huge 2015-10-02 13:22:19 i.e. the project lost its initial vision, because design by committee 2015-10-02 13:22:20 developer tools 2015-10-02 13:22:24 i am interrested to see what mozilla does with servo 2015-10-02 13:22:25 debugger 2015-10-02 13:22:30 the rendering engine written in rust 2015-10-02 13:22:49 that is an interresting concept, because it elemenates all race conditions and memory errors 2015-10-02 13:22:51 phoenix-0.1-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz 23-Sep-2002 20:33 10M 2015-10-02 13:22:58 ha 2015-10-02 13:23:13 firefox is like 200MB or so? 2015-10-02 13:23:30 firefox-41.0-r0 installed size: 2015-10-02 13:23:30 90447872 2015-10-02 13:23:57 ncopa: does xen iso have grsec? 2015-10-02 13:24:03 clandmeter: yes 2015-10-02 13:24:04 firefox-41.0.1.tar.bz2 29-Sep-2015 23:56 48M 2015-10-02 13:24:07 ok 2015-10-02 13:25:32 well, its still better than on a mac 2015-10-02 13:25:38 last night i installed an ftp client on a mac 2015-10-02 13:25:43 152 MB !!!!! 2015-10-02 13:25:47 for an FTP client!!!! 2015-10-02 13:26:01 yeah, and xterm was 73 MB last time I checked 2015-10-02 13:26:19 that's because MacOS X doesn't use shared libs for GUI or something 2015-10-02 13:26:39 skarnet: st-0.6.tar.gz 2015-Jul-07 22:30:10 39.3K :) 2015-10-02 13:26:47 sure 2015-10-02 13:27:01 but if MacOSX packaged st, it would be 70 MB 2015-10-02 13:27:09 heh, yeah 2015-10-02 13:39:13 i wonder how to debug this: http://sprunge.us/cZga (irssi segfault) irssi is running in lxc container, 2015-10-02 13:42:45 crow: gdb? 2015-10-02 13:47:25 it may not be true for other software, but I'm generally using gdb as a very last resort. I usually find strace and printf-dichotomy faster to isolate a bug... 2015-10-02 13:48:23 maybe gdb experts can use it efficiently and narrow down problems fast with it, but I never found the learning curve worth it 2015-10-02 13:52:21 uggedal well yes gdb, seems i need to setup everything in lxc container to for creating one core dump 2015-10-02 13:54:06 how can this "echo "/var/cores/core.%e.%p.%h.%t" > /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern" survive an reboot 2015-10-02 14:51:39 someone see here option to build with symbols? 2015-10-02 14:51:43 debug* 2015-10-02 14:51:47 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/tree/main/irssi/APKBUILD?id=f30732a9486d7f2a34de4eb540b5c2d76559b882 2015-10-02 14:57:24 crow: normally it is enought to either: 2015-10-02 14:57:28 DEBUG=1 abuild -r 2015-10-02 14:57:30 or 2015-10-02 14:57:45 subpackages="$pkgname-dbg ...." 2015-10-02 15:00:09 ok let me try i 2015-10-02 15:01:46 cool, comperssed logs actually work: http://build.alpinelinux.org/buildlogs/build-edge-x86_64/testing/firefox/ 2015-10-02 15:01:48 crow: did you mix repo's? 2015-10-02 15:01:56 i compress the logs manually for now 2015-10-02 15:02:13 bah 2015-10-02 15:02:17 you broke pkgs. 2015-10-02 15:02:23 me? 2015-10-02 15:02:24 how 2015-10-02 15:02:28 .gz 2015-10-02 15:02:33 whoops 2015-10-02 15:02:35 sorry 2015-10-02 15:02:44 :) 2015-10-02 15:02:56 want me to unbreak? 2015-10-02 15:03:08 no 2015-10-02 15:03:09 done 2015-10-02 15:03:12 ill patch it 2015-10-02 15:03:16 the thing is 2015-10-02 15:03:25 logs are created uncompresse 2015-10-02 15:03:31 i'll wait with it 2015-10-02 15:04:13 but i find it cool that you can actuall read the .log.gz as plaintext in browser 2015-10-02 15:04:18 so what does the uncompress? 2015-10-02 15:04:24 httpd or client??????? 2015-10-02 15:04:27 oops 2015-10-02 15:04:28 client 2015-10-02 15:04:44 i set a http header 2015-10-02 15:05:02 $HTTP["url"] =~ "\.log\.gz$" { 2015-10-02 15:05:02 setenv.add-response-header = ("Content-Encoding" => "x-gzip") 2015-10-02 15:05:02 mimetype.assign = (".log.gz" => "text/plain") 2015-10-02 15:05:02 } 2015-10-02 15:05:40 maybe this can also be done for filelist.json.gz 2015-10-02 15:06:09 what reads the filelist.json? 2015-10-02 15:06:25 im sure it can be done 2015-10-02 15:06:28 turbo 2015-10-02 15:06:36 hmm 2015-10-02 15:06:39 no i think curl 2015-10-02 15:06:43 then you'll have turbo to decompress it 2015-10-02 15:06:48 maybe curl can decompress 2015-10-02 15:08:00 ok 2015-10-02 15:08:03 its time for weekend 2015-10-02 15:08:12 i think we could ship a small script with apk tools to use the json 2015-10-02 15:09:17 ACTION is already struggling 4 hours to get win10 working on this laptop... 2015-10-02 15:10:02 clandmeter well i use irssi from mail, and fish-irssi from testing, and if i enter channel key i get segfault. so i wanna check what and where it segfaults 2015-10-02 15:10:28 thats probaby the issue 2015-10-02 15:10:34 you cannot just mix repo's 2015-10-02 15:11:04 the module could be compiled against an older version 2015-10-02 15:11:13 or newer that is 2015-10-02 15:11:20 well how can i test the fish-irssi modul then? 2015-10-02 15:11:48 use irrsi and fish from edge 2015-10-02 15:11:54 dont mix them 2015-10-02 15:12:14 mixing repos may work, it may not work 2015-10-02 15:12:24 testing in pure edge is a good suggestion 2015-10-02 15:12:34 specially if there is c++ involved 2015-10-02 15:12:42 ok 2015-10-02 15:12:47 now its weekend for real 2015-10-02 15:12:49 see you 2015-10-02 15:12:50 mixing modules from multiple repo's is readlly bad 2015-10-02 15:13:01 asking for problems 2015-10-02 15:14:50 well here is how i did it, i created an alpinedev lxc container, on that container i checkout aports and compiled fish-irssi modul, is that still testing? 2015-10-02 15:15:16 depends which repo the container is using 2015-10-02 15:15:36 "http://nl.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.2/main" 2015-10-02 15:15:56 then it should be ok 2015-10-02 15:16:27 cause the deps (irrsi in this case) is the same as the installed one on your box. 2015-10-02 15:17:59 exactly, i think you already wrote me this onces, and is the reason i am compiling it myself rether then pining testing repo 2015-10-02 15:18:39 if you do it like this, then its probably a diff issue 2015-10-02 15:20:35 crow: but you could still try to install irrsi from edge 2015-10-02 15:20:39 see if it makes a diff 2015-10-02 15:20:49 irssi and fish from edge that is. 2015-10-02 15:21:55 with repo pinning? 2015-10-02 15:22:02 yes 2015-10-02 15:23:00 ill try thank you 2015-10-02 15:39:41 clandmeter is this the right way? http://sprunge.us/idTT 2015-10-02 15:40:12 yes 2015-10-02 15:49:19 clandmeter now i know why i compiled it myself, i need debug symbols.. Reading symbols from irssi...(no debugging symbols found)...done. 2015-10-02 15:49:29 and yes it crash with this version to 2015-10-02 15:49:30 Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 2015-10-02 15:49:30 0x00006538f4453661 in __stack_chk_fail () from /lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1 2015-10-02 15:53:25 crow: stack overflow: http://refspecs.linux-foundation.org/LSB_4.1.0/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/libc---stack-chk-fail-1.html 2015-10-02 15:54:18 or badly implemented __stack_chk_fail in musl 2015-10-02 15:55:04 i dont know, i am just trying to use this app 2015-10-02 15:57:09 but as i dont have debug symbols is hard to say what is going on 2015-10-02 16:00:44 heh now i need to find out how to put my key on build machine inside this lxc container to be able to install self compiled package: ERROR: irssi-0.8.17-r1.apk: UNTRUSTED signature 2015-10-02 16:02:42 -ash: abuild-sign: not found 2015-10-02 16:04:51 i dont find here any info regarding keys, http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Creating_an_Alpine_package 2015-10-02 16:04:58 can someone point me to something actuell 2015-10-02 16:13:44 we might want to move openjdk7 to community since we it isn't supported for the next 2 years either 2015-10-02 16:36:25 crow: the pubkey needs to do in /etc/apk/keys 2015-10-02 16:37:00 abuild-keygen will do it if you -i 2015-10-02 16:51:44 ammunta thank you. well maybe abuild-keygen is doing it for me, but as i need the key in another lxc container i needed to copy the key there. 2015-10-02 16:51:48 Reading symbols from irssi...done. 2015-10-02 16:58:22 crow: ah, in that case just copy the key probably ~/.abuild/*.pub into the other container/etc/apk/keys 2015-10-02 17:05:52 ammunta yes i did that thanks to you for the tipp :) 2015-10-02 17:06:09 segfault is there again, symbols are loaded but still nothing inside for me: http://sprunge.us/JJMI 2015-10-02 20:52:43 ncopa: x-gzip or just 'gzip' ? 2015-10-03 22:35:41 hmm, s6 could be a reasonable basis for alpine's future replacement to openrc 2015-10-03 22:36:00 the only problem is the user experience is... not very friendly 2015-10-03 22:59:32 kaniini: indeed 2015-10-04 00:16:14 kaniini: that's what I'm here, to discuss usability 2015-10-04 00:16:19 that's why* I'm here 2015-10-04 00:16:31 it's supposed to be mechanism, not UI. 2015-10-04 00:16:56 So you guys just tell me what UX you want, and we can script around that. 2015-10-04 01:30:41 kaniini: although probably should ask what it is that you found unpleasant 2015-10-04 01:30:45 they 2015-10-04 01:30:48 might not be the same thing 2015-10-04 01:36:36 I'm interested in feedback, no matter what it is. I want to help make s6 and related software more accessible - I just need to know what you guys want. 2015-10-04 02:23:10 sorry was not here 2015-10-04 02:23:30 ammunta: what we need to do, is make s6 look kind of like openrc (so it's not that much of a shock) 2015-10-04 02:24:16 ammunta: perhaps some sort of service instantiation based on JSON unit-files (similar to systemd/solaris smf/etc) would be good too :) 2015-10-04 02:29:54 aaah, well 2015-10-04 02:30:11 could preprocess something and dump it in /run and send that to s6? 2015-10-04 02:32:00 that is the idea yes 2015-10-04 02:32:37 process configuration, build something for s6 to consume, and then have friendly UI ontop of the tools 2015-10-04 02:33:23 I'm quite fond of the svdir model though 2015-10-04 02:33:35 sure, for advanced users you could use it directly 2015-10-04 02:33:58 we just need something more easy 2015-10-04 02:34:02 like openrc is pretty easy 2015-10-04 02:34:11 my main issue with s6 is just that the execline package has a lot of name overlaps with shell builtins and it's annoying on my shell completion config 2015-10-04 02:34:57 to be fair even some of the openrc scripts we have are rather obtuse 2015-10-04 02:34:59 your average alpine user doesnt want to play with svdir's and so on 2015-10-04 02:35:04 right 2015-10-04 02:35:07 but, for example 2015-10-04 02:35:13 rc-update add blah default 2015-10-04 02:35:16 rc-update add blah boot 2015-10-04 02:35:21 that stuff is straightforward 2015-10-04 02:35:23 people get it 2015-10-04 02:35:27 that's the thing we need to maintain 2015-10-04 02:35:47 yeah the average user doesn't need to actually touch the service-starting scripts 2015-10-04 02:36:10 openrc situation is concerning though, and we could do much better with s6 2015-10-04 02:36:21 what happened to openrc? 2015-10-04 02:36:43 it's in decline, it's limited, it has bugs (especially parallel boot is way broken) 2015-10-04 02:37:16 it's similar, though, isn't it? just symlink into the svscan dir? 2015-10-04 02:37:21 generally it doesn't follow the overall alpine philosophy of simple, well-understood components 2015-10-04 02:37:45 we just used it because it was better than what was there before 2015-10-04 02:38:26 isn't runit like forever old 2015-10-04 02:38:38 i mean in terms of alpine 2015-10-04 02:39:00 alpine had basically something like openrc before, but it was more fragile 2015-10-04 02:39:04 ah 2015-10-04 02:39:27 so what we need is basically 2015-10-04 02:39:51 1. something to layer ontop of s6 to make it simple for new users to use 2015-10-04 02:39:54 well 2015-10-04 02:40:02 what exactly is the interface we want to keep? 2015-10-04 02:40:05 2. something to provide compatibility with openrc scripts 2015-10-04 02:40:27 (for now this is important until we fully transition away from openrc :)) 2015-10-04 02:40:32 2. is going to be hard 2015-10-04 02:40:58 for transition perhaps just invoke openrc at startup 2015-10-04 02:40:59 i'm not sure if it will be, it could just be a matter of wrapping openrc levels inside s6 jobs 2015-10-04 02:41:01 :) 2015-10-04 02:41:21 but that'll make an interface nightmare 2015-10-04 02:41:37 to distinguish which services are supervised and which ones are under openrc 2015-10-04 02:41:41 we could alternatively not bother and just bump the major number to 4.x 2015-10-04 02:41:44 :) 2015-10-04 02:41:55 and make transition a matter of 'documentation' 2015-10-04 02:41:58 :&& inadvisable 2015-10-04 02:42:13 then we'd still have to maintain 3.x long enough for people to be able to transition 2015-10-04 02:42:23 well, ideally we would just include openrc as a support package then 2015-10-04 02:42:26 and so 2015-10-04 02:42:31 old installs keep openrc 2015-10-04 02:42:35 with a note that it is deprecated 2015-10-04 02:42:48 and that you should migrate to the new system 2015-10-04 02:43:11 to start we would have to find everything that installs init scripts and write svdir replacements 2015-10-04 02:43:15 yes 2015-10-04 02:43:24 well, not necessarily. 2015-10-04 02:43:32 what i would like to see is just shipping generic unit files 2015-10-04 02:43:42 and then we have something that spits out an openrc or svdir or whatever 2015-10-04 02:43:55 totally doable 2015-10-04 02:45:50 it's honestly not hard to just encode an svdir's contents as a single file and just extract that into a tree 2015-10-04 02:53:17 but I guess we want to do better than that 2015-10-04 02:54:00 hm did skarnet drop out 2015-10-04 02:54:07 unfortunate 2015-10-04 03:05:03 ... tbh I just want the execline binaries installed somewhere that isn't /usr/bin ... but that's an issue of packaging 2015-10-04 08:55:17 it seems irssi need some love with PaX, but i am not sure what. 2015-10-04 08:55:18 Starting program: /usr/bin/irssi 2015-10-04 08:55:18 warning: Cannot call inferior functions, Linux kernel PaX protection forbids return to non-executable pages! 2015-10-04 18:42:01 the best way forward would be to keep openrc but make it optional to make room for some experimentation imho 2015-10-04 18:42:32 and if that experimentation favors an alternative I would prefer to stick to its philosophy 2015-10-04 18:42:55 if you want s6 to look like openrc, just use openrc. they have some kind of s6 support 2015-10-04 18:45:41 and for what its worth, runit is far simpler than openrc 2015-10-04 18:45:51 it is 2015-10-04 18:46:44 https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/blob/master/s6-guide.md this? 2015-10-04 18:47:00 it's a bit ... lacking tbh 2015-10-04 18:47:05 yeah, I have not tried it, but that's it 2015-10-04 18:47:35 I would not recommend going that route. but if you wan't s6 to look like openrc... 2015-10-04 18:50:23 sorry guys, I'm having connection issues atm 2015-10-04 18:50:31 well, I'd just bump alpine to 4 2015-10-04 18:50:48 do 3.x series with extended support like we did with musl 2015-10-04 19:02:11 are there chat log archives somewhere? I missed the discussion with ammunta, I'd like to catch up. 2015-10-04 19:02:52 I can fetch them for you 2015-10-04 19:04:16 skarnet: https://fiche.greata.uk/rcok 2015-10-04 19:05:36 not sure how interesting that discussion actually is 2015-10-04 19:42:14 thanks for the archive 2015-10-04 19:43:33 now ammunta has dropped out too, but writing for the archives. 2015-10-04 19:44:12 The easy way of "porting" stuff from openrc to s6 is s6-rc. I mostly wrote it for that purpose. 2015-10-04 19:44:28 So there can be a similar UI. 2015-10-04 19:44:42 And correct dependencies between services, including oneshots. 2015-10-04 19:45:44 Service directories for supervision can then be written one at a time, it can be an ongoing porting effort. 2015-10-04 19:46:50 So please have a look at s6-rc first. 2015-10-04 19:47:53 As for execline binaries: I don't want execline binaries to be second-class citizens. If autocompletion has issues with them, then autocompletion configuration needs to be changed so it doesn't have issues anymore. 2015-10-04 19:48:54 If it's easier to have execline binaries somewhere else than /usr/bin, that's fine, but that location needs to be in the default PATH too. 2015-10-04 19:49:10 ah, you're there XD 2015-10-04 19:49:56 does it have to be in the default path in general, or just the default path for the supervision tree, though 2015-10-04 19:50:29 In general. Every other binary is in the default path, why would execline be different? 2015-10-04 19:51:04 I *am* using those binaries normally, in my scripts, even shell scripts, and some other people are, too. 2015-10-04 19:51:43 similar to the bin/sbin distinction? 2015-10-04 19:53:02 there's a case to put root-only binaries in a separate directory. There's no case to segregate execline binaries, because any user may want to use them. 2015-10-04 19:53:41 Treat execline as you would Perl or any other scripting language, please, not as a red-headed stepchild. 2015-10-04 19:55:03 If some shell can't tell the difference between a builtin "cd" and a binary named "cd", that's a problem with the shell, not the binary. 2015-10-04 19:56:49 I think that's the difference we're having here 2015-10-04 19:57:25 you expect execline binaries to be used by any user independently 2015-10-04 19:57:35 perl ... okay, perl installs a whole bunch of stuff actually 2015-10-04 19:57:52 it doesn't install its language constructs as binaries in everyone's path though 2015-10-04 19:58:27 shell builtins don't get stuck in the path for everyone using a different shell 2015-10-04 19:58:38 But the *very point* of execline is that the "language constructs" are binaries, and can be used outside of the language. 2015-10-04 19:59:07 You can type 'pipeline cat /etc/passwd "" less' 2015-10-04 19:59:12 and it will work 2015-10-04 19:59:13 so I'm seeing exceline as a domain-specific language for writing unambiguous exec chains 2015-10-04 20:01:43 There's one tool (execlineb) to turn a script file into a single command line, and a toolbox of binaries to manipulate command lines and process states in order to have some control structure in a single command line. 2015-10-04 20:02:18 The various tools in the toolbox can be used independently from the script runner, because they're just command line tools. 2015-10-04 20:02:30 for most purposes that come up interactively, the user's shell is supposed to be sufficient 2015-10-04 20:02:41 I'd like to pull in the execline tools when I *need* them 2015-10-04 20:02:54 in the same way that I'd invoke, e.g. perl when I want its functionality 2015-10-04 20:03:17 There's no reason why you'd pull them if you don't need them 2015-10-04 20:03:27 if you run "cd /" in a shell, that's the builtin you'll run 2015-10-04 20:03:52 there's really no possible confusion 2015-10-04 20:04:10 if the autocompletion is doing something funny, then it's time to look at the autocompletion config 2015-10-04 20:04:38 I do not like the aesthetics of having two commands with overlapping names which function fundamentally differently 2015-10-04 20:04:51 I use zsh with autocompletion and I've never run any execline binary when I didn't want to 2015-10-04 20:05:29 well they don't function fundamentally differently, the names only overlap when they provide the exact same functionality 2015-10-04 20:06:15 and again, in a shell, you'll use the builtin every time, unless you specify the full path 2015-10-04 20:06:24 so it's not going to break anything. 2015-10-04 20:06:26 skarnet http://dev.alpinelinux.org/irclogs/ 2015-10-04 20:06:40 ah, thanks. 2015-10-04 20:06:43 https://fiche.greata.uk/wlp5 fwiw this is what I have my completion doing 2015-10-04 20:07:05 it also distinguishes aliases and functions and things 2015-10-04 20:07:26 it's not confusion that's the issue 2015-10-04 20:07:49 what is the issue, what do you expect completion to do and what is it doing instead? 2015-10-04 20:09:43 completion is functioning exactly as intended? 2015-10-04 20:10:25 it's just knowing that there are two commands in that list with the same name and sure, it's obvious which one is which one 2015-10-04 20:10:35 but the results would be different depending on which gets invoked 2015-10-04 20:11:37 In a shell, the builtin will always be preferred; and there's no reason why you would want to use the external, since you can get equivalent functionality from the builtin. But if you do, just specify a full path, and you'll get the external. 2015-10-04 20:11:50 It's totally working as intended. 2015-10-04 20:12:20 the problem *is not technical* 2015-10-04 20:12:41 it's very likely it's just me, even 2015-10-04 20:14:19 but every other utility which is likely to overlap with a shell builtin acts sufficiently similarly to the builtin that in trivial use cases it doesn't matter which is which 2015-10-04 20:15:16 ah, like /bin/[ and /bin/echo ? 2015-10-04 20:15:19 yes 2015-10-04 20:16:08 I have some implicit expectations at work here 2015-10-04 20:16:42 well those predate the time where [ and echo got built in. If you find a shell currently in use where "if" and other names overlapping with execline are not built-in, then yes, you have a case. 2015-10-04 20:17:29 it would be very odd to see something like cd implemented as an external program 2015-10-04 20:18:02 in the model of "do stuff when exit", cd as an external program doesn't make sense, because it just changes the process state. 2015-10-04 20:18:21 That's why the "cd" command from execline actually execs into something. 2015-10-04 20:18:37 In a shell, you'll *never* call an external cd command. 2015-10-04 20:19:23 Same with umask. 2015-10-04 20:20:40 yes 2015-10-04 20:21:25 so if I see external command cd that looks very odd to me 2015-10-04 20:22:27 But you'll never see it in a shell script! You'll only see it if you ls /bin. 2015-10-04 20:23:04 And you know what, Red Hat at some point had a /usr/bin/cd. That did chdir() then exit(). Yeah, that did nothing useful. 2015-10-04 20:23:18 *that* is odd to me. 2015-10-04 20:23:22 and that /was/ stupid 2015-10-04 20:24:06 well, the cd from execline actually does something - and you can't use it unless you really want to. 2015-10-04 20:25:37 again, my *expectation* is that programs with the same name as common shell builtins would do something similar in a shell without the builtin 2015-10-04 20:26:11 in a hypothetical shell which doesn't have cd as a builtin 2015-10-04 20:26:16 That expectation makes total sense for programs that actually make sense when they're not a builtin 2015-10-04 20:26:18 (maybe it only responds to chdir or something) 2015-10-04 20:26:29 I expect that if I try to cd I get told that it /doesn't work/ 2015-10-04 20:26:46 because it doesn't exist 2015-10-04 20:26:52 But for stuff that just *cannot* be implemented in an external program, I don't understand the expectation 2015-10-04 20:27:47 the expectation is generalised 2015-10-04 20:28:01 if you try "/bin/cd /" you'll be told that it doesn't work :P 2015-10-04 20:28:26 okay yes it gives cd: usage: cd path prog... 2015-10-04 20:28:37 yes. 2015-10-04 20:28:51 So you know that you're trying to run the external command. 2015-10-04 20:30:06 conversely if a shell decided fsr to implement, say, env as a builtin 2015-10-04 20:30:19 I disagree with having to reserve all the builtin keywords from a language and not being able to name executables the same. 2015-10-04 20:30:41 (which would be redundant but not implausible) 2015-10-04 20:30:54 I would *not* expect it to change the state of the shell 2015-10-04 20:31:31 env makes sense as an external program, it's posix, etc. etc. I certainly wouldn't try to provide a program named "env" that goes against expectations there. 2015-10-04 20:32:15 we're realistically talking about "if", "cd" and "umask" here, where this is not true. 2015-10-04 20:33:17 I'm trying to demonstrate why it's unreasonable to expect the generalization not to be applied in those cases as well 2015-10-04 20:36:41 I simply disagree. Builtins that cannot work as external programs should not reserve external program namespace. 2015-10-04 20:37:14 You don't do that for other scripting language. Do you reserve "die" because it's a Perl keyword? 2015-10-04 20:37:16 or "use" ? 2015-10-04 20:37:27 I don't put those in the external program namespace either 2015-10-04 20:37:54 well, I have no objection to someone creating binaries named "die" or "use" 2015-10-04 20:37:55 unfortunately the external program namespace, for practical purposes, *is* the shell namespace 2015-10-04 20:38:10 since it's *obvious* what context I'm going to use them in 2015-10-04 20:38:26 and in a Perl script, it's obviously the keywords that I'm going to use. 2015-10-04 20:38:27 I would not object to die but I would probably object to use 2015-10-04 20:39:09 but that's just because it would be a terrible name for a program 2015-10-04 20:39:27 er, sorry, misworded that 2015-10-04 20:39:54 I don't use the external program namespace to put perl functions in 2015-10-04 20:40:25 I don't understand why you give the shell such respect when it's clearly not deserved (the shell is a horrible language) and when there's no possible confusion and things will never break. 2015-10-04 20:41:31 and I most certainly *would* have an issue with a perl lib defining a sub with the same name as a builtin 2015-10-04 20:41:59 even though iirc perl's name resolution order is terrible and some builtins will get called before functions of the same name 2015-10-04 20:43:29 the shell is for all intents and purposes the primary consumer of PATH 2015-10-04 20:43:37 wrong. 2015-10-04 20:43:45 it's really the only place where it's unacceptable to go find your executable 2015-10-04 20:43:46 Command lines are the primary consumer of PATH. 2015-10-04 20:44:06 The shell is just a common way of building command lines. 2015-10-04 20:44:10 there *is not salient distinction between the two* 2015-10-04 20:44:18 they are different, yes 2015-10-04 20:44:27 you don't *have* to build a command line using the shell 2015-10-04 20:45:06 Indeed, most of the time, I'm not. 2015-10-04 20:45:16 but there is user interaction, where I can't think of the last time I built up a command line using something that wasn't a shell 2015-10-04 20:45:48 i think I called exec from a python script into pip 2015-10-04 20:46:14 and you can rest easy, because even with binaries such as cd and umask in your PATH, no shell will ever put such a binary into a command line it's building, unless you explicitly want it to. 2015-10-04 20:46:29 for reusable script, you can write code to find whatever executables you want like, once, total 2015-10-04 20:47:21 Dude, please give me some credit. I would not insist on putting stuff in your PATH that risks breaking shells all over the world. -_- 2015-10-04 20:48:02 I have no technical issues here, it's just aesthetic 2015-10-04 20:48:29 hi 2015-10-04 20:48:35 Hi kaniini 2015-10-04 20:49:18 objection was to 16:40 < skarnet> I don't understand why you give the shell such respect when it's clearly not deserved (the shell is a horrible language) and when there's no possible confusion 2015-10-04 20:49:22 re: aesthetics, I understand you find it ugly, but your alternatives (segregating binaries) are uglier and actually break stuff 2015-10-04 20:49:51 shell is horrible and all but command lines are still its turf 2015-10-04 20:49:54 oh hello 2015-10-04 20:50:46 sure, gives the shell what belongs to the shell, but don't give it more. External binaries with the same name as shell builtins are *not* its turf. 2015-10-04 20:51:31 Not if the keyword can't be anything else than a builtin. 2015-10-04 20:52:55 I feel that as long as the shell fulfils its responsibility of fork-execing into something reasonable all the contents of a standard PATH *are* its turf, whether or not it's *responsible* for them 2015-10-04 20:52:55 for what it is worth I'm with skarnet here, who cares if you have /usr/bin/cd 2015-10-04 20:53:15 although 2015-10-04 20:53:18 basically 2015-10-04 20:53:23 it really isn't a big deal, just cosmetic 2015-10-04 20:53:33 maybe it confuses some people with shell completions though 2015-10-04 20:53:35 it comes down to something like 2015-10-04 20:53:43 that is the only edge case i can think of right now 2015-10-04 20:54:16 (although if you are having to tab-complete 'cd', you are probably beyond hope) 2015-10-04 20:54:23 I don't get how it would confuse people with shell completion either? surely the shell would complete builtins. what difference does it make that there is a executable in path with the same name? 2015-10-04 20:55:09 are we treating execline as a scripting language or as a set of utilities 2015-10-04 20:56:06 Now that's a good question, because it's actually a set of utilities that looks like a scripting language 2015-10-04 20:56:23 indeed 2015-10-04 20:58:02 The only thing I can say is, if you restrict execline binaries for use in execlineb scripts only, stuff will break. 2015-10-04 20:59:03 I see that happening only on systems already using execline binaries extensively without execlineb? 2015-10-04 20:59:23 s6 does it, for instance. 2015-10-04 21:00:05 yeah, I have a toolbox, I'm using it. Sorry. 2015-10-04 21:03:51 ... takeaway from this conversation is honestly "why do we dump all executable binaries in just a few namespaces" 2015-10-04 21:04:07 ("because historical reasons whoops") 2015-10-04 21:04:53 brb, switching connections 2015-10-04 21:22:33 ah, hell, I'll go and install execline again for a week and see if I can live with it 2015-10-04 21:26:27 Cool ;) If you're not using it, you shouldn't even notice it's there! 2015-10-04 21:31:04 ... wait, is there a reason s6lockd* don't have another dash after s6? 2015-10-04 21:31:26 because not intended to be run directly? 2015-10-04 21:31:50 yeah, and part of the "s6lock" library. 2015-10-04 21:32:26 I'm also bad at naming, so don't go looking too far, it's easy to fault me on naming consistency. 2015-10-04 21:34:43 snrk 2015-10-04 21:48:35 https://fiche.greata.uk/127c that's ... odd 2015-10-04 21:48:40 am I using the program wrong 2015-10-04 21:50:37 it looks like it's failing to flush on exit 2015-10-04 21:51:39 https://fiche.greata.uk/j3o4 2015-10-04 21:57:38 skarnet: that's on a stock alpine:edge docker image 2015-10-04 22:07:23 ammunta: weird, let me experiment 2015-10-04 22:21:34 ok, there's a bug - this failure to flush on exit happens when you're using the shared libskarnet 2015-10-04 22:21:58 workaround: --enable-allstatic when you're compiling the skarnet.org packages 2015-10-04 22:22:14 skarnet: tai64n and local use the same buffering right 2015-10-04 22:22:23 this is a very strange bug, not sure what the interaction is with the dynamic linker 2015-10-04 22:22:28 working on it right away 2015-10-04 22:22:39 yes, it's buffer_0f1 2015-10-04 22:23:05 how what's s6-log doing, line buffering? 2015-10-04 22:23:12 the flush happens before the read(), my first guess is that it gets incorrectly optimized away at some point 2015-10-04 22:23:14 because it seems to work fine 2015-10-04 22:23:29 only buffer_0f1 exhibits the problem 2015-10-04 22:23:30 only when dynamically linked? 2015-10-04 22:23:32 yes 2015-10-04 22:23:33 huh 2015-10-04 22:23:53 ikr? weird. 2015-10-04 22:24:00 is this musl-specific? 2015-10-04 22:24:23 I expected it to be, but no. I tested it on glibc too. 2015-10-04 22:24:57 maybe I'm passing incorrect linker options by default which cause the dynamic linker to do something wrong. 2015-10-04 22:47:18 skarnet: was there ever a point where it worked 2015-10-04 22:47:58 Good question. I'm inclined to say yes, but I couldn't swear it. Currently investigating. 2015-10-05 01:39:43 Found it. 2015-10-05 01:40:13 The -Bsymbolic option to the linker is what's causing the problem. It should not, but for some reason it's harmful. 2015-10-05 01:40:23 going to release new versions without the goddamn option. 2015-10-05 02:42:59 what was it doing 2015-10-05 02:43:02 skarnet: 2015-10-05 02:43:20 like, what went wrong 2015-10-05 02:46:18 it was using a copy of buffer_1_ for the flush, instead of the real buffer_1_. 2015-10-05 02:46:28 Because the dynamic linker got confused. 2015-10-05 02:52:09 ah 2015-10-05 02:53:43 new skalibs release, then, I assume? 2015-10-05 02:54:05 yup, it should be available now. Finishing the rest of the software, then I'll post the announcement. 2015-10-05 03:07:22 there, announcement posted. 2015-10-05 03:09:08 http://skarnet.org/powersupply-20070720.html ... wait, why at that point "in 2013"? 2015-10-05 03:11:07 I didn't write that stuff in 2007. I actually wrote it in 2013, right before the move to a VPS. 2015-10-05 03:12:12 Luckily, the 2007 problem was the last serious problem I had with hardware. 2015-10-05 03:13:20 But in 2013, I moved out of the country, and there's no way I'd be able to access the machine physically. So before moving out, I made the switch to a VPS. 2015-10-05 03:13:48 ah 2015-10-05 03:14:32 gandi's an interesting choice 2015-10-05 03:14:43 ah, right, french? 2015-10-05 03:15:25 Yes. I know the guys a bit, and a friend I trust worked for them for some time and said good things about the infrastructure, so I chose them. 2015-10-05 03:15:54 neat 2015-10-05 03:16:22 so far, no complaints. 2015-10-05 03:19:13 "Only for compilation purposes is GNU software used, namely gcc and GNU make." 2015-10-05 03:20:22 yes. It all began with a RMS moment. 2015-10-05 03:21:07 an rms moment, eh? 2015-10-05 03:21:32 hm is it viable at this point in time to ditch the gnu toolchain for compilation too 2015-10-05 03:21:36 In 2000-something, I was young and foolish and social, and I went to some free software convention, and I met RMS. I said something with "Linux" in it 2015-10-05 03:21:45 my condolences 2015-10-05 03:21:50 ajajaja 2015-10-05 03:22:01 and social 2015-10-05 03:22:12 and RMS interrupted me and explained to me for 3 minutes why I should say "GNU/Linux", although it was completely irrelevant in that context 2015-10-05 03:22:31 so I thought "... ok" 2015-10-05 03:22:33 do you want to know the background story on that stupidity 2015-10-05 03:22:39 oh, I know it. 2015-10-05 03:22:53 I've had plenty of time and opportunities. :) 2015-10-05 03:22:58 my impression of rms has been "useful to have exist, but not actually to interact with" but 2015-10-05 03:23:05 I have not had the pleasure of such an interaction 2015-10-05 03:23:08 So, I went to work. 2015-10-05 03:23:22 The next year, I went to the same convention. 2015-10-05 03:23:28 I met RMS again. 2015-10-05 03:23:32 I said "Linux". 2015-10-05 03:23:35 did you have a non-gnu linux this time 2015-10-05 03:23:45 He interrupted me again. I let him finish. 2015-10-05 03:24:26 Then I said "No, I use Linux. I don't use GNU. I use this, and this, and this, but not GNU. So when I say Linux, I mean exactly what I say." 2015-10-05 03:24:49 RMS couldn't say anything for about 5 seconds, and his face was priceless. 2015-10-05 03:25:02 That moment was what made all of it worth. :) 2015-10-05 03:25:19 beautiful 2015-10-05 03:25:23 s6-rc seems like a viable solution 2015-10-05 03:25:51 it'd be interesting to have some sort of demo image so we can see what it looks like in practice 2015-10-05 03:26:02 http://linsam.homelinux.com/extra/s6-altsim/jor1k/demos/s6-rc.html 2015-10-05 03:26:13 the problem with openrc is that it's basically very much tied to gentoo 2015-10-05 03:26:18 still a bit buggy, but useful to experiment with. 2015-10-05 03:27:11 Being tied to Gentoo is not the only problem with OpenRC. 2015-10-05 03:27:20 no, but it is a large problem for alpine 2015-10-05 03:27:38 oh anyway execline is being unsightly but not too much of a nuisance I guess 2015-10-05 03:27:43 I could get used to it probably 2015-10-05 03:27:54 Good news :) 2015-10-05 03:28:35 kaniini: well, I'll be here in the next weeks to take feedback. s6-rc is raw, the point is to script around it, so if I can help, I will. 2015-10-05 03:29:07 i am presently too busy with work and pkgconf-1 release planning 2015-10-05 03:29:11 :( 2015-10-05 03:29:54 I don't know who does what in Alpine. 2015-10-05 03:30:15 but it looks good. 2015-10-05 03:30:30 i especially like the client-server sudo design 2015-10-05 03:31:01 Glad you like it, it was some work ^^' 2015-10-05 03:32:36 In October, I'm going to try and understand how Alpine works at a very basic level 2015-10-05 03:32:47 how stuff is booted, etc. 2015-10-05 03:32:59 alright 2015-10-05 03:33:00 so I know what you guys are talking about 2015-10-05 03:34:16 that's it for me tonight, gn 2015-10-05 03:34:42 so uh ... is there something that doesn't work about /away or 2015-10-05 04:57:38 skarnet_afk: http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2015-10-05 2015-10-05 04:57:57 how much logging do we have around here 2015-10-05 04:58:45 well, irclogger has been enabled by someone who doesn't sit here 24/7 2015-10-05 04:59:03 also between all the skarnet and the kaniini and the ammunta that row of nicks is 2015-10-05 04:59:04 and besides, I guess everyone else keeps theirs logs 2015-10-05 04:59:10 pleasing 2015-10-05 05:04:29 yeah, they used to be like 20 people here 2015-10-05 05:04:38 probably even less 2015-10-05 05:05:26 now like, eightysomething 2015-10-05 05:55:18 s/the/it, pardon my lack of coffee in the morning 2015-10-05 06:34:03 clandmeter I think I know why I have sometimes segfault on the oscam (I was using oscam.debug) but if I read correctly APKGBUILD we are not doing paxmark on the oscam.debug binaries), and oscam binary is striped from oscam makefile itself I think. 2015-10-05 08:11:47 nmeum: is there a reason you're adding depends/depends_dev/install="" to ncmpcpp? 2015-10-05 08:20:11 uggedal: there is no particular reason but I think that it is better to initialize variables with an empty value instead of not defining them at all, we don't have a coding style for APKBUILDs so no idea what is preferred… 2015-10-05 08:22:06 maybe we ... should have a coding style for them 2015-10-05 08:22:38 nmeum: well, depends_dev is kind of strange in a package without a dev subpackge imho 2015-10-05 08:22:59 also last I checked newapkbuild produces some lines like that .la one that are no longer useful, doesn't it 2015-10-05 08:25:06 uggedal: there are many packages which define depends_dev without using it, of cause you could remove that but since newapkbuild defines that by default I always keep it in my apkbuilds, but if you want to remove it go ahead :) 2015-10-05 08:50:28 thank you, i can try it firstl tonight. 2015-10-05 08:51:10 ups :) wrong window 2015-10-05 08:51:57 nmeum: yeah, I get that. was just the case of adding them on a version bump 2015-10-05 09:01:23 crow: yes thats possible. 2015-10-05 09:01:33 oscam never crashes for me. 2015-10-05 09:01:49 and I have it running on 3 hosts. 2015-10-05 09:30:32 clandmeter there is always posibility to crash, and we are nod doing paxmark on it, i also dont understand this: [ "$CARCH" = "x86" ] && paxflags="-msp" <- does it mean only on 32bit ? 2015-10-05 09:58:14 hi 2015-10-05 09:58:49 I have noticed a problem (not sure you guys can do anything about it yet) that most C++ libs on alpine presently are built with GCC and in edge you have GCC 5.x 2015-10-05 09:59:02 this is not ABI compatible with clang++ and so you get linker failures when linking with system libs 2015-10-05 09:59:12 because the ABI changed in GCC 5.x 2015-10-05 09:59:20 ugh 2015-10-05 09:59:34 so clang++ does not work with gcc 5.x? 2015-10-05 09:59:48 no due to the ABI change. 2015-10-05 09:59:51 in GCC 2015-10-05 09:59:58 clang has yet to update their ABI 2015-10-05 10:00:01 this only affects C++ 2015-10-05 10:00:07 how do we fix that? 2015-10-05 10:00:07 afaik the C ABI is unaltered 2015-10-05 10:00:10 yes 2015-10-05 10:00:19 I... don't know :| 2015-10-05 10:00:21 there is a new llvm 2015-10-05 10:00:32 3.7 2015-10-05 10:00:34 http://developerblog.redhat.com/2015/02/05/gcc5-and-the-c11-abi/ 2015-10-05 10:00:45 does llvm 3.7 work with gcc 5? 2015-10-05 10:00:50 I don't think clang yet implements the new ABI 2015-10-05 10:01:05 that means that we cannot support clang++ yet 2015-10-05 10:01:15 https://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=23529 2015-10-05 10:01:17 the answer is "Unsupported" 2015-10-05 10:01:19 :| 2015-10-05 10:01:54 this smells like a can of worms 2015-10-05 10:02:35 yeah, gentoo for instance masked GCC 5, and in fact debian is the only major system to have shipped GCC 5 for reasons I do not fully comprehend 2015-10-05 10:02:35 https://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=23529#c3 2015-10-05 10:04:45 it's on reviewboard, and it is slated for "maybe 3.9" at this point 2015-10-05 10:24:59 am I the only person here who never used newapkbuild? 2015-10-05 10:26:33 I use a magnetized needle and a steady hand 2015-10-05 10:45:35 uggedal: I think you need a scanning tunnelling microscope now 2015-10-05 10:46:48 crow: yes thats 32bit only setting 2015-10-05 11:11:33 clandmeter well it also patch the 64bit oscam binaries. i have hier an stable installation x86_64 and the oscam is paxmarked and oscam.debug not 2015-10-05 11:53:47 crow: yes it also paxmark 64 version 2015-10-05 11:53:54 but with different markings 2015-10-05 11:54:27 if you want to debug, you can paxmark it yourself. 2015-10-05 12:19:21 clandmeter where are the 64 bit marks? yes i will do it myself i just wanna to understand this APKGBUILD 2015-10-05 13:25:04 crow: you dont uderstand the apkbuild? 2015-10-05 13:25:14 $paxflags is which flags are set 2015-10-05 13:25:48 flags are by default: paxflags="-m" 2015-10-05 13:26:12 but for x86 (32bit) the flags are different: [ "$CARCH" = "x86" ] && paxflags="-msp" 2015-10-05 15:15:02 hey friends !!!! 2015-10-05 15:15:13 be carefull, the latest alpine update is broken!! 2015-10-05 15:15:30 http://i.imgur.com/K5xDvx5.png 2015-10-05 15:15:42 the font is broken, makes it very hard to find something! 2015-10-05 15:15:52 ping @ ncopa clandmeter 2015-10-05 15:52:12 leo-unglaub: what font is that? 2015-10-05 15:54:39 uggedal: 2015-10-05 15:54:40 ttf-dejavu 2015-10-05 15:54:46 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/commit/?id=a965446999f455808c44ecce95a3ae6f4c485775 2015-10-05 15:54:52 this seams to be broken 2015-10-05 15:55:10 will have a look, I broke it 2015-10-05 15:56:44 uggedal: dont worry, it only seams to be happening in the terminal, no idea what the difference is there 2015-10-05 15:57:06 pidgin, firefox, claws mail, xfce panel seams to be fine, but i have to admin i did not close them down to check ... 2015-10-05 16:58:55 clandmeter thanks for explaining that part with paxflags, ill setup that for .debug binaries and try it. 2015-10-05 18:25:50 seems like homepage does not get anymore latest git updates? http://alpinelinux.org/ 2015-10-05 18:26:02 last was from 2015-09-11 2015-10-06 07:03:09 here comes 4.1.10 kernel 2015-10-06 07:03:11 vanilla first 2015-10-06 07:23:31 ncopa: can you please fix our www git listing? multiple ppl already complained about it. 2015-10-06 07:25:03 :) 2015-10-06 07:34:50 clandmeter: i think i already did? 2015-10-06 08:08:22 do we have our logo in svg? 2015-10-06 08:08:26 ncopa, clandmeter ↑ 2015-10-06 08:08:33 yes 2015-10-06 08:09:07 http://alpinelinux.org/alpinelinux-logo.svg 2015-10-06 08:09:20 great, thanks 2015-10-06 08:09:20 http://alpinelinux.org/alpinelinux-logo-icon.svg 2015-10-06 08:09:25 I'm giving a talk on Saturday about Alpine 2015-10-06 08:09:33 cool! 2015-10-06 08:09:37 title slide sounds like a good start :D 2015-10-06 08:10:00 would be cool to se a video ;) 2015-10-06 08:10:26 one thing i thought of 2015-10-06 08:10:28 not sure if they're going to record it 2015-10-06 08:10:42 be careful to not say that we use grsecurity 2015-10-06 08:10:50 we cannot say that it *is* grsecurity 2015-10-06 08:10:59 we can say it is based on grsecurity though 2015-10-06 08:11:05 yeah, I thought so 2015-10-06 08:11:10 good 2015-10-06 08:11:18 we should probably re-word our about page too 2015-10-06 08:13:47 stupid regex question: if i have multiple character in a string, how can i choose only the last one if it is not at the end of the string? 2015-10-06 08:14:12 define chose? 2015-10-06 08:14:17 Like an http address, i want to take only the last / part 2015-10-06 08:14:24 liek 2015-10-06 08:14:26 like 2015-10-06 08:14:27 https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/freeswitch-12-/9781782161004/ch05s05.html 2015-10-06 08:14:37 i want to pickup only the last "/" 2015-10-06 08:14:52 the one before ch05s05.html 2015-10-06 08:15:02 how do you mean pickup? 2015-10-06 08:15:13 grep '.*/' 2015-10-06 08:15:16 bah, my bad english...extract 2015-10-06 08:15:24 will match the last / 2015-10-06 08:16:04 then .*/(.*)\.html shoud match only ch05s05 2015-10-06 08:16:21 ncopa: ah, i didnt check myself :) 2015-10-06 08:16:34 somebody here complained, so i guessed it wasnt fixed yet 2015-10-06 08:16:42 and it wasnt 2 days ago i believe 2015-10-06 08:16:53 so you must have changed it really recently :) 2015-10-06 08:17:48 echo "https://www.safaribooksonline 2015-10-06 08:17:49 .com/library/view/freeswitch-12-/9781782161004/ch05s05.html" | sed -E 's:(.*)/(. 2015-10-06 08:17:49 *).\html:\1/foo:' 2015-10-06 08:18:11 clandmeter: i saw the complain in irc log and fixed it :) 2015-10-06 08:18:19 thx ncopa :) 2015-10-06 08:18:22 right before you pinged m 2015-10-06 08:19:16 :) 2015-10-06 08:47:45 ncopa: can you elaborate on the grsecurity issue? I'm curious. 2015-10-06 08:48:38 which grsecurity issue? 2015-10-06 08:48:43 the availability on the patches? 2015-10-06 08:48:56 <@ncopa> be careful to not say that we use grsecurity 2015-10-06 08:48:56 <@ncopa> we cannot say that it *is* grsecurity 2015-10-06 08:48:56 <@ncopa> we can say it is based on grsecurity though 2015-10-06 08:48:59 ah ok 2015-10-06 08:49:01 so 2015-10-06 08:49:39 what happened was that spender have removed public grsecurity patches from public 2015-10-06 08:50:14 for 2 reasons: some does not comply with gpl, and some does not comply with trademark 2015-10-06 08:51:10 he said that some company(ies?) publicly said they were using grsecurity in their marketing material 2015-10-06 08:51:23 while they were using some old unsupported version of it 2015-10-06 08:51:28 spender didnt like that 2015-10-06 08:51:45 i think they even used some modified version of grsecurity 2015-10-06 08:51:55 and called it grsecurity 2015-10-06 08:52:18 spender ran some legal action and apparently lost 2015-10-06 08:52:27 so he removed the stable patches from public 2015-10-06 08:53:18 that doesn't sound like a nice reaction - "a company did me harm so I'm going to punish everyone" 2015-10-06 08:53:46 anyway, what does alpine use? 2015-10-06 08:54:26 i emailed spender said that this will hurt us 2015-10-06 08:54:57 he didnt seem to be interested in help anyone not paying 2015-10-06 08:55:07 we use a port of grsecyrity 2015-10-06 08:55:14 because we depend on stable kernel 2015-10-06 08:55:24 the lts kernel 2015-10-06 08:55:36 so we take the last available grsecurity patch for that kernel 2015-10-06 08:55:53 then we merge in upstream linux-3.18.y changes 2015-10-06 08:55:56 and push that 2015-10-06 08:56:05 so currently we have a 3.18.21-grsec kernel 2015-10-06 08:56:12 this is unsupported by spender 2015-10-06 08:56:19 homemade patches upon homemade patches to work around legal and ego issues. 2015-10-06 08:56:45 Is there nobody among the kernel folks to maintain a public grsecurity branch? 2015-10-06 08:56:49 i am pretty sure we are fully legal 2015-10-06 08:56:52 would be a reason for me to wipe out the whole grsec-stuff. but as long as there is no alternative... :-( 2015-10-06 08:57:11 sure you're fully legal, but that's work. 2015-10-06 08:57:12 skarnet: we have maintained a public grsecurity branch 2015-10-06 08:57:27 spender knows it 2015-10-06 08:57:35 i dont think he likes it 2015-10-06 08:57:57 upstream kernel folks dont want pax patches because they are too intrusive 2015-10-06 08:58:14 so you're basically doing the work 2015-10-06 08:58:18 correct 2015-10-06 08:58:22 with no support for either 2015-10-06 08:59:03 and yes i think there are some ego issues here too 2015-10-06 08:59:14 spender seem to think that he alone in the world shoudl be doing this work 2015-10-06 08:59:40 that may very well be true if he wanted to make it open source 2015-10-06 08:59:40 on the contribute page you dont find the traditional: "patches are welcome" 2015-10-06 08:59:58 eh, honestly, cathedral works 2015-10-06 09:00:03 I'm a cathedral guy 2015-10-06 09:00:17 but he has to make the stuff public and available 2015-10-06 09:00:29 no he does not 2015-10-06 09:00:30 if he doesn't, he has no say in the matter 2015-10-06 09:01:02 he does publish the testing patches 2015-10-06 09:01:26 testing as opposed to stable? 2015-10-06 09:01:27 but not the patches for stable kernels 2015-10-06 09:01:29 yes 2015-10-06 09:01:47 someone needs to be reminded what "open source" menas 2015-10-06 09:01:49 means* 2015-10-06 09:01:53 this was to not have too much impact on gentoo hardened and arch linux 2015-10-06 09:02:04 but those are rolling releases 2015-10-06 09:02:39 which does not work for every one needing production stuff 2015-10-06 09:03:12 i think he is within his rights to do what he does 2015-10-06 09:03:14 rolling releases can work for production as long as stuff can be easily rolled back 2015-10-06 09:03:39 it may work, but i dont think that works for everyone 2015-10-06 09:03:46 well if he's the author of the patches, of course he can do what he wants with them, including not publishing them 2015-10-06 09:03:54 exactly 2015-10-06 09:04:01 but that's not "open source" 2015-10-06 09:04:08 that's proprietary 2015-10-06 09:04:22 it is 2015-10-06 09:04:39 so he definitively does not comply with the spirit in gpl 2015-10-06 09:04:44 anyways 2015-10-06 09:04:57 the stuff he does is good 2015-10-06 09:05:13 the stable patches even contains upstream fixes 2015-10-06 09:05:17 early 2015-10-06 09:05:26 that's cool 2015-10-06 09:05:34 so he does they job the stable maintainers should have done 2015-10-06 09:05:48 but that means someone else has to maintain a stable open source version 2015-10-06 09:06:05 of grsecurity? 2015-10-06 09:06:07 yeah 2015-10-06 09:06:08 yes 2015-10-06 09:06:21 https://github.com/alpinelinux/linux-stable-grsec 2015-10-06 09:06:55 if you guys are willing to do that work, more power to you 2015-10-06 09:07:39 and you need to find a name, if grsecurity is trademarked or otherwise protected 2015-10-06 09:07:58 algrsecurity or something 2015-10-06 09:08:16 so people know what they're talking about 2015-10-06 09:08:53 thats why i said we should not say it is grsecurity 2015-10-06 09:09:02 yes, now I understand - thanks for the explanation 2015-10-06 09:09:22 i am not sure we will be able to continue do this 2015-10-06 09:09:30 it is non-trivial 2015-10-06 09:09:36 and pretty much work 2015-10-06 09:09:53 well obviously 2015-10-06 09:10:08 you need to find a willing maintainer 2015-10-06 09:10:15 it's a project in itself 2015-10-06 09:10:16 it was easier when we had access to stable patches 2015-10-06 09:10:29 yes it is 2015-10-06 09:11:17 when you say 'gpl' on a patch, does it mean gpl on 'patch+original' as whole or just the patch ? 2015-10-06 09:11:31 i am a bit dissapointed because we do have contributed back to grsecurity 2015-10-06 09:11:47 we have analyzed and fixed issues 2015-10-06 09:11:52 with arm 2015-10-06 09:12:13 once there was a miscompilation with some version of gcc 2015-10-06 09:12:48 which potentially could been exploitable 2015-10-06 09:13:00 depending on the license of the code you contributed, you should have the right to access anything that includes it 2015-10-06 09:13:51 I also think that spenders work is underestimated 2015-10-06 09:14:08 undervalued 2015-10-06 09:14:17 I can very much understand that 2015-10-06 09:14:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rarpym8JJXQ&t=32m53s 2015-10-06 09:14:51 but what you're saying of his position makes it hard to empathize 2015-10-06 09:15:56 yeah 2015-10-06 09:16:11 I need to watch the rest of that video, but yes, I understand 2015-10-06 09:16:22 that video is pretty good 2015-10-06 09:16:32 I think my work is undervalued too, but I'm not going to close source :P 2015-10-06 09:16:37 he also mentions gnupg maintainer 2015-10-06 09:16:47 :) 2015-10-06 09:17:12 i'm glad to hear that 2015-10-06 09:18:06 full disclosure: I want to get into alpine to get recognition, and ultimately customers 2015-10-06 09:18:31 but the way to money is genuine service to the community, and fame 2015-10-06 09:19:14 I may be naive but Spender should be able to say "I'm the grsecurity guy, I'm good, hire me" 2015-10-06 09:19:27 and get good money without having to sell the software 2015-10-06 09:19:58 he probably should 2015-10-06 09:20:07 he probably could 2015-10-06 09:20:09 i dunno 2015-10-06 09:20:19 ok so you want get involved in alpine? 2015-10-06 09:20:19 not sure if anyone would paid for that 2015-10-06 09:20:36 if it will make init systems better, yes I do. 2015-10-06 09:21:02 cool 2015-10-06 09:21:21 i have hoped for someone to step up and want make initsystems better 2015-10-06 09:21:32 i want better initsystem 2015-10-06 09:21:40 but realize i dont have the needed capacity 2015-10-06 09:22:07 i have also read the s6 ideas 2015-10-06 09:22:09 I've looked around, and we have a small community of interested people, but it looks like I'm in a good position to do it 2015-10-06 09:22:19 and i really like the ideas 2015-10-06 09:22:36 i like some of the ideas behind systemd too 2015-10-06 09:22:41 uggedal: about the font bug 2015-10-06 09:22:48 a system restart solved the issue 2015-10-06 09:23:27 we'll have to talk about what you like in systemd and how we can provide it in a Unixish way 2015-10-06 09:23:37 skarnet: i want focus on v3.3 release in nov, but after that i think we should start look into how to fix init 2015-10-06 09:25:00 to me, s6-init works, it's just about adapting it to the alpine way of things, so if you give me pointers or a list of things you want, I can start working on it. 2015-10-06 09:25:30 my first impression of s6 was that it is a bit "weird" 2015-10-06 09:25:41 ACTION shrugs 2015-10-06 09:25:50 it's djb-inspired. Of course it's gonna feel weird. 2015-10-06 09:25:53 that does not mean it is bad 2015-10-06 09:25:57 djb is weird 2015-10-06 09:25:58 yes 2015-10-06 09:26:04 djb kind of weird 2015-10-06 09:26:31 that said, being different has not scared us in other situations 2015-10-06 09:26:37 like gnu libc vs musl libc 2015-10-06 09:26:43 indeed 2015-10-06 09:26:55 generally, "weirdness" is a UI problem, and that can be solved with scripting. 2015-10-06 09:27:14 second thing uggedal mentioned was size 2015-10-06 09:27:24 i think s6 was like 2MB something 2015-10-06 09:27:38 while openrc is ~700-800k 2015-10-06 09:27:44 that much? let me check 2015-10-06 09:27:52 that was with all deps 2015-10-06 09:27:57 it might be it is due to static link 2015-10-06 09:28:03 i havent checked it myself 2015-10-06 09:28:07 that is what uggedal said 2015-10-06 09:28:15 it's true there are a lot of binaries in s6, and execline 2015-10-06 09:28:20 and libskarnet is big 2015-10-06 09:28:29 so 2 MB may be close 2015-10-06 09:28:37 however 2015-10-06 09:28:47 openrc has a lot of hidden dependencies 2015-10-06 09:29:07 like? 2015-10-06 09:29:11 it basically relies on a shell to do all its parsing, for instance 2015-10-06 09:29:15 yes 2015-10-06 09:29:22 you'll invoke zillions of shell in an openrc run 2015-10-06 09:29:22 but you need shell on the system anyway 2015-10-06 09:29:27 yes 2015-10-06 09:29:37 ncopa: skarnet: i just joined, are you talking about replacing the current init system with s6-init? 2015-10-06 09:29:42 and that is one thing i am interested in fix 2015-10-06 09:29:49 gimme a min 2015-10-06 09:30:06 leo-unglaub: that is what we are talking about 2015-10-06 09:30:10 but it is just talk for now 2015-10-06 09:30:29 i think to get there we need be able run either openrc or s6 2015-10-06 09:30:54 i also think recent openrc has support for s6 supervision 2015-10-06 09:35:16 sorry, I need to supervise (heh) a few people here 2015-10-06 09:35:25 lol 2015-10-06 09:35:28 RL may call again 2015-10-06 09:36:12 so, re: size - the way I see things, which you may disagree with, is that disk is cheap while RAM and CPU are expensive 2015-10-06 09:36:44 so I don't hesitate to have a lot of binaries using storage space 2015-10-06 09:36:54 but the running footprint will be as small as it gets 2015-10-06 09:37:13 alpine has its origins in running everything in tmpfs 2015-10-06 09:37:26 which means that at boot, it installs the system on tmpfs 2015-10-06 09:37:52 so you basically have / in a tmpfs with the whole base system? 2015-10-06 09:37:57 yes 2015-10-06 09:38:03 I made a "sys" install 2015-10-06 09:38:15 then its more traditional 2015-10-06 09:38:21 i run that here too 2015-10-06 09:38:28 yes, I tend to think that / in a tmpfs is wasteful 2015-10-06 09:38:34 but we do support the diskless setup 2015-10-06 09:38:54 and that has kind being an important thing 2015-10-06 09:38:56 sure it's supportable, but still wasteful, because you can't possibly use all of / at the same time 2015-10-06 09:39:06 correct 2015-10-06 09:39:14 so you're using RAM for stuff that should be in storage 2015-10-06 09:39:26 correct 2015-10-06 09:39:33 well, when it comes to data 2015-10-06 09:39:40 user data 2015-10-06 09:39:42 databases etc 2015-10-06 09:39:50 yeah, ofc user data will be on disk 2015-10-06 09:39:50 i think its stupid to do that in tmpfs 2015-10-06 09:39:56 but even system binaries 2015-10-06 09:40:16 your firmware has to live somewhere 2015-10-06 09:40:17 it is different, i know 2015-10-06 09:40:23 but what it has led to 2015-10-06 09:40:33 your initramfs is stored somewhere before you load it 2015-10-06 09:40:39 we have a base system that is 6-7MB 2015-10-06 09:40:53 that is what has made alpine big in docker community 2015-10-06 09:41:21 the disk-is-cheap mentality has led to debian ubuntu etc minimal base system be over 200MB 2015-10-06 09:41:33 (maybe it is 100MB) 2015-10-06 09:41:42 not the same mentality at all 2015-10-06 09:41:57 disk is cheap... to a point 2015-10-06 09:42:09 2 MB is not 100 MB 2015-10-06 09:42:21 yes but people have said 2015-10-06 09:42:31 why bother sbout 100MB? GB disk is ceap 2015-10-06 09:42:34 and it is 2015-10-06 09:42:45 til the point where you want run 100 servers on same hardware 2015-10-06 09:43:36 all static, x86_64, du says 1540k for s6 binaries 2015-10-06 09:43:48 i'm just saying that thinking small is what has made alpine big 2015-10-06 09:44:12 10MB instead of 100MB also means less data over the wire 2015-10-06 09:44:29 it means faster install (write 100MB disk is slower than 10MB) 2015-10-06 09:45:01 I suspect dynamic linking will help if you're that much concerned about disk space, I'll do some measurements 2015-10-06 09:45:11 skarnet there are network infra running all tmpfs on 512MB/1GB RAM boxes 2015-10-06 09:45:51 without disk you have less moving parts, literally 2015-10-06 09:46:05 a rotating disk will die sooner or later 2015-10-06 09:46:30 ssd used to have problem with too many writes 2015-10-06 09:46:35 i dont know how that is nowdays 2015-10-06 09:46:42 but diskless has its benefits 2015-10-06 09:46:49 how about runit? how big it is? 2015-10-06 09:47:14 it's smaller, but lacking reliability features such as readiness notification. :P 2015-10-06 09:47:33 if you're that much concerned about disk size, there are ways to cut into it 2015-10-06 09:47:51 i am sure there is 2015-10-06 09:47:52 because for the base init system you don't need the whole s6 package, you just need the core 2015-10-06 09:48:05 and the extra utilities can be packaged separately 2015-10-06 09:48:42 the size comes from the fact that there's a lot of stuff, but individually the pieces are small 2015-10-06 09:48:52 so packaging can solve the size problem 2015-10-06 09:49:42 also, and that was my initial point: 2015-10-06 09:50:15 i have to go. im back after lunch 2015-10-06 09:50:19 when you run an openrc script, the run will spawn several shells that will do real parsing work 2015-10-06 09:50:28 and that will take a few MB of RAM 2015-10-06 09:51:06 when you run s6-rc, it will only spawn a shell if your individual scripts are shell scripts 2015-10-06 09:51:22 s6-rc itself will use a few hundred K at most. 2015-10-06 09:52:05 enjoy your lunch. 2015-10-06 10:37:59 I am the least bit concerned that abuild-tar is using uninitialised memory when dealing with the tar headers, spewing random bytes for the first file 2015-10-06 10:38:08 where should I send a patch? 2015-10-06 10:39:26 http://foxkit.us/linux/0001-abuild-tar-Ensure-all-memory-is-properly-initialised.patch 2015-10-06 10:47:58 awilfox, oops. thanks :) 2015-10-06 10:48:43 Happy to help :) 2015-10-06 10:50:13 is that triggerable somehow? 2015-10-06 10:50:32 hmm 2015-10-06 10:50:38 buf_padto does not need memset() after that 2015-10-06 10:51:27 buf_read_fd() use of buf_resize() does not need the memset 2015-10-06 10:51:39 http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_package_format 2015-10-06 10:51:52 Was following this and if the first entry in the tar file is a file not a dir it happens every time 2015-10-06 10:52:06 i think buf_resize() does not need memset at all 2015-10-06 10:52:09 I can reliably see junk chars everywhere in the first 512 bytes 2015-10-06 10:52:37 Hm, I can remove it if you want a new patch file 2015-10-06 10:52:57 looking at the other hunk 2015-10-06 10:53:52 That buf_resize memset was just for safety. It can be removed safely I think 2015-10-06 10:56:09 i think the memset should be unconditional 2015-10-06 10:56:12 not inside if(md) 2015-10-06 10:56:35 the loop resets it in the end 2015-10-06 10:56:57 remove the first hunk + make the memset of paxhdr unconditional in the start of the function 2015-10-06 10:58:07 it probably happens if tar --xattr is not specified. since if there's existing pax record, it'll update the paxhdr first 2015-10-06 10:58:26 i think gnu tar with --xattr always creates pax header with minimum of extended timestamps 2015-10-06 10:59:11 the issue is probably not triggerable from abuild in it's current form. 2015-10-06 10:59:14 but better to get it right 2015-10-06 10:59:27 http://foxkit.us/linux/0001-abuild-tar-Initialise-memory-before-use.patch 2015-10-06 10:59:38 Fix the commit message to be proper length too 2015-10-06 11:02:28 awilfox, pushed. thanks. i only removed the dot from the commit first line 2015-10-06 11:02:51 Okay, thank you very much! 2015-10-06 11:28:52 ncopa: anything agaisnt adding 265 support to ffmpeg? 2015-10-06 11:30:37 clandmeter: its just a configure option? 2015-10-06 11:30:49 i dont mind unless there are some legal issues with it 2015-10-06 11:31:01 i dont think so 2015-10-06 11:31:11 i need to add x265 directly to main 2015-10-06 11:31:11 then i'd be happy with support for it 2015-10-06 11:31:18 thats ok 2015-10-06 11:31:33 as it is dep for a package in main 2015-10-06 11:31:57 hm, got some build problems with very few output 2015-10-06 11:32:06 any ideas on how to dig into things like: 2015-10-06 11:32:20 starwarsfan@builder06:~/development/alpine-aports-mirror/main/quassel abuild -r 2015-10-06 11:32:20 >>> quassel: Checking sanity of /home/starwarsfan/development/alpine-aports-mirror/main/quassel/APKBUILD... 2015-10-06 11:32:20 >>> quassel: Analyzing dependencies... 2015-10-06 11:32:20 >>> ERROR: quassel: all failed 2015-10-06 11:33:11 so there is no output what's wrong!? 2015-10-06 11:33:18 StarWarsFan: maybe releated to new community repo? 2015-10-06 11:33:21 v3.2 btw 2015-10-06 11:33:27 what does apk fix say? 2015-10-06 11:34:06 root@builder06:~ apk fix 2015-10-06 11:34:06 (1/1) Reinstalling ssmtp (2.64-r5) 2015-10-06 11:34:06 ERROR: ssmtp-2.64-r5: trying to overwrite usr/sbin/sendmail owned by postfix-3.0.1-r2. 2015-10-06 11:34:06 Executing busybox-1.23.2-r0.trigger 2015-10-06 11:34:06 1 errors; 1856 MiB in 526 packages 2015-10-06 11:34:08 root@builder06:~ 2015-10-06 11:34:24 i dont think you can have postfix and ssmt installed at same time 2015-10-06 11:34:27 they conflict 2015-10-06 11:34:29 but that should not be related to quassel build 2015-10-06 11:34:58 apk add returns error 2015-10-06 11:35:03 and abuild does not know why 2015-10-06 11:35:08 it just exits 2015-10-06 11:35:13 ok but i have no idea how this happens 2015-10-06 11:35:20 i mean, to have both installed!? 2015-10-06 11:35:30 try apk del ssmpt 2015-10-06 11:36:22 ok, quassel builds now after "apk del ssmtp .makedepends-cui-ssmtp" 2015-10-06 11:36:41 i think i'm struggling with these .makedependes-... stuff 2015-10-06 11:37:42 anyway, thx for the help! 2015-10-06 11:39:01 hm, i got a lot of these ".makedependes-..." packages installed on my build boxes 2015-10-06 11:39:18 but why? shouldn't they removed after a build? 2015-10-06 11:39:34 or in general: what is the goal of these "packages"? 2015-10-06 11:40:24 root@builder06:~ apk info | grep makedepends | wc -l 2015-10-06 11:40:24 47 2015-10-06 12:02:32 StarWarsFan: apk del .makedepend* 2015-10-06 12:02:39 you can configure that in /etc/abuild.conf 2015-10-06 12:02:48 ahh, that's interesting 2015-10-06 12:03:09 CLEANUP="srcdir pkgdir deps" 2015-10-06 12:03:19 will clean up src pkg and deps on successful build 2015-10-06 12:03:37 great, thx. will try this immediately 2015-10-06 12:03:43 there is also ERROR_CLEANUP 2015-10-06 12:03:53 which tells abuild what to clean up on build fail 2015-10-06 13:09:32 barthalion: http://mirror.bpiotrowski.pl/ is down? 2015-10-06 13:10:49 ah, dl-7 replaces it 2015-10-06 14:30:23 i look forward to drop support of alpine v2.7 2015-10-06 14:30:34 then its only musl that is supported 2015-10-06 14:42:52 noooo 2015-10-06 14:42:56 my nas is still 2.7 2015-10-06 14:43:13 does nfs already work on 3.x? ;-) 2015-10-06 14:44:25 ncopa: any hint on how to find out which error happend when building something and it doesnt output an error? 2015-10-06 14:47:46 clandmeter: bld1/bld2 lxc host run v3.2 2015-10-06 14:47:48 with nfs 2015-10-06 14:47:52 and jubo frames 2015-10-06 14:47:56 jumbo frames 2015-10-06 14:48:14 try make it generate an error? 2015-10-06 14:48:16 make V=1 2015-10-06 14:48:18 i dunno 2015-10-06 18:11:41 earlier today you talked about a new init system and the possibilities 2015-10-06 18:12:09 would this new alternative mean that all those horrible shell scripts would be gone? 2015-10-06 18:12:24 and everything in /etc/init.d would be a c written binary? 2015-10-06 18:19:51 not quite. 2015-10-06 18:20:00 configurability is important. 2015-10-06 18:21:03 A complete system with service management etc. written in C is doable. A friend of mine has written one, once. 2015-10-06 18:21:09 You could even argue that systemd is one. :) 2015-10-06 18:21:30 But you want to be able to edit it relatively dynamically. 2015-10-06 18:22:30 the horror in init.d isn't that it's shell, it's that there's a lot of boilerplate and workarounds and inclusions to compensate for a suboptimal design. 2015-10-06 18:22:53 If you remove all the boilerplate, it's actually elegant. 2015-10-06 18:25:17 for a few years now I've been working on crafting an init system with all the features people would actually *need*, and it's more or less complete now, so I'm offering it, if the Alpine guys want it. There's a lot of integration to do, but that's something we can work on together. 2015-10-06 18:26:25 and what I *do* guarantee is that it's faster and more reliable than anything you've seen before. 2015-10-06 18:34:24 i disagree on the shell scripts 2015-10-06 18:34:31 90% of them are pure horror 2015-10-06 18:34:49 iterating over some /proc stuff with grep and then doing something based on that ... 2015-10-06 18:34:58 thats slow and insecure if done in bash 2015-10-06 18:35:05 -bash + shell 2015-10-06 18:35:34 yeah, that's the kind of stuff that should go away. 2015-10-06 18:36:08 the ugliness generally comes from a lack of proper process supervision and service management. 2015-10-06 18:36:13 or getting the pid, that is done in 50 different ways, but none of them have error checks for of the fs is not mountet that contains the pid, ... 2015-10-06 18:36:24 that is definitely going away. 2015-10-06 18:36:28 those shell scripts run very often into undefined behavours and tht is horrible 2015-10-06 18:37:18 those are the workarounds for a lack of proper process supervision and service management. 2015-10-06 18:37:37 it's definitely not the elegant part. ^^' 2015-10-06 18:38:52 i love the structure of the current init system. /etc/init.d and then /etc/runlevels with softlinks 2015-10-06 18:38:58 but the scripts itself need replacement 2015-10-06 18:39:20 one shared library for parsing pids, checking the status and starting and stoping 2015-10-06 18:39:25 that should be around 50kb 2015-10-06 18:39:38 and then simply dynamicly link the init scripts to that shared library 2015-10-06 18:39:48 that would be my wet dream *g* 2015-10-06 18:40:30 how about a 42k static binary 2015-10-06 18:40:55 "s6-rc change your-runlevel-of-choice" 2015-10-06 18:41:09 well, if you put in a cold coke i am sold :) 2015-10-06 18:41:26 of course there's the fine print 2015-10-06 18:41:43 you have to have a working supervision tree, so the infrastructure uses a little more RAM 2015-10-06 18:42:00 but I believe the increased reliability is worth it. 2015-10-06 18:42:18 hmm, i am not a big fan of supervision 2015-10-06 18:42:45 if a process crashes in most cases simply restarting them does not help because they crash for a reason (hdd full, ...) 2015-10-06 18:43:06 i prefer the watchdog approach that if somerhing goes wrong i am getting informed about it 2015-10-06 18:43:21 it's not one or the other. 2015-10-06 18:43:26 You can have both. 2015-10-06 18:43:47 And while you're getting informed and can do something about it, the service attempts to work. 2015-10-06 18:44:19 You can also disable supervision if you don't want it on a service. Nothing's forced on you. 2015-10-06 18:45:44 But among other things, a supervision tree is what allows you to keep track of a daemon and signal it without .pid files or other /proc-scanning horrors. ;) 2015-10-06 18:46:34 i have no problem with pid files ... i have a problem with the shell scripts trying to parse them 2015-10-06 18:46:47 well you should XD 2015-10-06 18:47:51 but no .pidfile-parsing shell scripts either. That goes away. 2015-10-06 18:48:07 i am open to new stuff as long as it is clean and small ... and not systemd ... 2015-10-06 18:48:32 as long as i dont hear you screaming: rewrite the init system in python i am all yours *g* 2015-10-06 18:49:39 C/Unix and only C/Unix, no dependencies. 2015-10-06 18:51:21 so those are the pros of s6, what are the cons? 2015-10-06 18:51:50 Other people will certainly give you more accurate cons than I will :) 2015-10-06 18:51:57 *g* 2015-10-06 18:52:21 well, the main developer is french .. so thats a con hahahahahah 2015-10-06 18:52:22 ;) 2015-10-06 18:52:26 just kidding *g* 2015-10-06 18:52:34 yeah, that's definitely a con, but not the main one :P 2015-10-06 18:52:57 i am currently reading the code 2015-10-06 18:53:08 the main con is probably that it's a definite change of paradigm, and takes some getting used to. 2015-10-06 18:54:01 People who have used daemontools or runit before won't feel disoriented, but others may. 2015-10-06 18:55:34 you really seam to hate source code comments *g* 2015-10-06 18:55:44 if i find one i let the channel know *g* 2015-10-06 18:56:35 Honestly, yes, I don't like comments. Don't scream right now: I have reasons. 2015-10-06 18:57:06 If a piece of code needs commenting, it means what it does isn't obvious. If it's not obvious, then it's too complex. 2015-10-06 18:57:46 There are a few comments here and there where I had to actually do non-obvious stuff. I try to keep those to a minimum. 2015-10-06 19:00:34 i like comments, it makes it easiert to get a quick overview 2015-10-06 22:54:39 could someone of you tell me where crypttab is parsed during booting? 2015-10-06 22:54:44 i am not finding anything 2015-10-07 00:24:27 is it just me or is the depends_dev check broken? For instance on main/libmtp it prints a warning saying that a dev subpackage couldn't be found but depends_dev is set none the less even though libmtp ships a -dev subpackage… 2015-10-07 00:25:36 leo-unglaub: is /etc/crypttab parsed at all? I always use /etc/conf.d/dmcrypt instead 2015-10-07 05:16:21 good morning 2015-10-07 05:16:38 please git pull git://git.alpinelinux.org/user/fab/aports 2015-10-07 05:16:44 just some updates 2015-10-07 05:26:14 isn't that what the patch list is for 2015-10-07 06:24:19 ammunta: it is easier to deal with git pull if there are more than 5 patches in queue 2015-10-07 07:01:18 clandmeter: i think i have a workaround for your mono timezone issue 2015-10-07 07:06:42 i think you can simply set TZ env var 2015-10-07 07:06:44 to anything 2015-10-07 07:06:46 even empty 2015-10-07 07:23:13 clandmeter: issue is fixed upstream: https://github.com/mono/mono/commit/cf4e7339e31d19e6934d7b8130f82697212ea39e 2015-10-07 07:24:19 ncopa: yes i have a patch already applied 2015-10-07 07:24:22 but i had build issues 2015-10-07 07:24:28 but i think i know what happend 2015-10-07 07:24:33 seems paxmark has changed 2015-10-07 07:24:35 i can clean it up if you want 2015-10-07 07:24:50 no i think what happened was that there used to be a rm *.la 2015-10-07 07:25:07 so the paxmark returned error but there was no || return 2015-10-07 07:25:12 i have a fix for that too 2015-10-07 07:25:20 me 2 2015-10-07 07:25:30 we only need paxmark elf binaries 2015-10-07 07:26:11 ncopa: http://tpaste.us/GPKK 2015-10-07 07:26:26 paxmark is exiting 1 when some files are not elf 2015-10-07 07:26:47 http://tpaste.us/36PW 2015-10-07 07:26:54 this behariour has changed, because before it worked 2015-10-07 07:27:16 i bet it was introduced with: b4a13e7314bfe25e63b2f1ae5014d5429c17b539 2015-10-07 07:27:29 i was also thinking of adding that, but then i thought keep it kiss :) 2015-10-07 07:28:08 anyway i think its fixed like this 2015-10-07 07:28:12 you can commit yours if you want 2015-10-07 07:28:16 its more future proof 2015-10-07 07:28:25 ok 2015-10-07 07:28:36 i just want test if it actually fixes emby first 2015-10-07 07:28:39 its building here now 2015-10-07 07:28:49 must say one thing though 2015-10-07 07:28:56 the mono developer was very helpful 2015-10-07 07:29:13 regrading what? 2015-10-07 07:29:20 regarding /etc/localtime 2015-10-07 07:29:31 i asked about it 2015-10-07 07:29:32 why did you talk to them? 2015-10-07 07:29:47 i already provided you a link to the fix 2015-10-07 07:29:54 oh i missed that 2015-10-07 07:29:59 :-/ 2015-10-07 07:30:01 and you replied to it 2015-10-07 07:31:00 i didnt read the bug report carefully enough :-/ 2015-10-07 07:31:00 atleast you have a extra friend now :) 2015-10-07 07:31:01 sorry 2015-10-07 07:35:11 im thinking of installing emby on scaleway 2015-10-07 07:35:27 maybe it a media server/storage 2015-10-07 07:35:34 make it 2015-10-07 07:35:45 brain damaged 2015-10-07 07:36:05 but why did they choose mono... 2015-10-07 07:36:08 :) 2015-10-07 07:36:29 because mono devs are friendly? :) 2015-10-07 07:37:07 ugh 2015-10-07 07:37:15 >>> emby: Unpacking /var/cache/distfiles/Emby-3.0.5724.6.tar.gz... 2015-10-07 07:37:15 Segmentation fault 2015-10-07 07:37:33 >>> mono*: Create checksum... 2015-10-07 07:37:33 >>> mono*: Create mono-4.0.4.1-r0.apk 2015-10-07 07:37:36 mine is fine 2015-10-07 07:37:41 mono built 2015-10-07 07:37:42 just finished 2015-10-07 07:37:45 emby does not 2015-10-07 07:37:49 oh 2015-10-07 07:37:55 sigh 2015-10-07 07:38:03 it segfaults on unpack? 2015-10-07 07:38:46 [2244076.789084] mono[18045]: segfault at 5 ip 0000790ce281eabd sp 000079823aee0d90 error 6 in libmonosgen-2.0.so.1.0.0[790ce2723000+4f0000] 2015-10-07 07:38:46 [2244076.789100] grsec: From 79.160.13.133: Segmentation fault occurred at 0000000000000005 in /usr/bin/mono-sgen[mono:18045] uid/euid:1000/1000 gid/egid:1000/1000, parent /usr/bin/abuild[abuild:17940] uid/euid:1000/1000 gid/egid:1000/1000 2015-10-07 07:39:12 are you sure thats the correct msg? 2015-10-07 07:39:22 cuase mono build will also generate one 2015-10-07 07:39:31 no i am not sure 2015-10-07 07:39:43 my emby is ok, but i dont have grsec 2015-10-07 07:40:52 file /usr/bin/mono-sgen does not have a PT_PAX_FLAGS program header, try conversion 2015-10-07 07:40:55 hmpf 2015-10-07 07:42:12 stupid me 2015-10-07 07:42:17 i need to use "$pkgdir" 2015-10-07 07:42:20 its too early... 2015-10-07 07:43:27 hehe 2015-10-07 07:43:36 and the example is right on top of it ;-) 2015-10-07 07:43:55 get your coffee 2015-10-07 07:45:52 those scaleway security (aka firewall) settings make no sence to me. 2015-10-07 07:47:11 its stateless... 2015-10-07 07:47:50 givs likely significant performance 2015-10-07 07:48:11 its not stateless i mean 2015-10-07 07:48:19 so blocking incoming blocks all traffic 2015-10-07 07:48:19 stateful then 2015-10-07 07:48:42 it doesnt remember state... its also early for me.. 2015-10-07 07:48:50 :) 2015-10-07 07:48:57 what fw is it? bsd? 2015-10-07 07:49:38 its their control panel 2015-10-07 07:49:55 they mention they have their own networking infra 2015-10-07 07:50:01 thats why they dont support ipv6 yet 2015-10-07 07:50:41 https://www.scaleway.com/faq/server/#-Can-I-have-a-firewall 2015-10-07 07:56:37 so gentoo finaly switched completely to git? 2015-10-07 08:01:12 yes 2015-10-07 08:01:50 ACTION <- nominally gentoo-{kde,musl} fox 2015-10-07 08:30:37 has someone ever tried dsniff package in testing? 2015-10-07 09:02:34 morning 2015-10-07 10:37:00 bummer, i messed up the new 4.1.y rpi kernel config 2015-10-07 10:37:06 i'll try to push new configs today 2015-10-07 10:37:12 test-building new kernel now 2015-10-07 10:38:09 seems they changed quite a bit of the kernel config option names... 2015-10-07 10:38:47 i hope they get most of that upstreamed at some point 2015-10-07 12:41:21 ncopa, in b.a.o there' #4717 which complains about xf86-video-cirrus not available. I built the package. Should it be pushed directly to main? 2015-10-07 12:42:06 are you sure we need it? 2015-10-07 12:42:15 dunno 2015-10-07 12:42:23 i think the modesetting driver is supposed to replace the driver for qemu 2015-10-07 12:42:33 if not, it's enough to modify wiki page then 2015-10-07 12:42:47 Use xf86-video-cirrus for qemu/kvm guests. Use xf86-video-vmware for Virtualbox/VMware guests. Use xf86-video-geode for Alix1D. 2015-10-07 12:42:49 yes 2015-10-07 12:43:04 i think xf86-video-modesetting is for qemu nowdays 2015-10-07 12:44:14 ok 2015-10-07 12:44:21 going to modify wiki page then 2015-10-07 12:46:41 i have a hostapd setup going, but no wifi client can connect. there is a handshake, smoe keys are exchanged, but then the client does a rescan, over and over again 2015-10-07 12:46:49 client and server are AL 2015-10-07 12:47:04 verbose debugging is a bit cryptic 2015-10-07 12:47:14 has anyone got exp with hostapd? 2015-10-07 12:47:50 post the logs somewhere? 2015-10-07 12:48:00 ok 2015-10-07 12:48:34 wifi's fickle, it's probably related to your setup more than to AL 2015-10-07 12:50:07 http://tpaste.us/A9j7 2015-10-07 12:50:18 yes, i can believe that 2015-10-07 12:50:39 so, my SSID is kitten, and that was it's logs 2015-10-07 12:50:52 you can see MAC 84:3a:4b:67:01:04 connecting 2015-10-07 12:51:02 that's the client 2015-10-07 12:52:42 can you get the client's logs? or is it a phone or something? 2015-10-07 12:55:22 sure, here is the client 2015-10-07 12:57:24 http://sprunge.us/XOCV 2015-10-07 13:00:04 looks like there's a 2015-10-07 13:00:06 ioctl[SIOCSIWFREQ]: Resource busy 2015-10-07 13:00:11 here is the hostapd.conf file http://tpaste.us/GX1Z 2015-10-07 13:00:18 in your client and things go down from there 2015-10-07 13:00:53 indeed 2015-10-07 13:01:31 but no other client works 2015-10-07 13:02:08 with different software? 2015-10-07 13:02:21 different hardware? 2015-10-07 13:02:28 android fails 2015-10-07 13:02:45 what does android say, if it says anything? 2015-10-07 13:02:46 (tautology) 2015-10-07 13:03:01 nothing helpful, just keeps retrying 2015-10-07 13:03:44 should the wpa_passphrase be the plain text string to hash by hostapd, or the pre-hashed string? 2015-10-07 13:03:56 (in hostapd.conf) 2015-10-07 13:04:46 ncopa: what's the purpose of the main/autoconf2.13 package? You created it because it was needed by main/xulrunner, that package doesn't seem to exist anymore so is it safe to remove the main/autoconf2.13 package? 2015-10-07 13:05:39 ScrumpyJack: what happens if you use wpa_pairwise=TKIP CCMP ? 2015-10-07 13:06:37 also, wifi hardware is generally broken and feature autodetection fails, so it's probably safer to specify your ht_capab manually 2015-10-07 13:08:00 i had hostapd use both TKIP CCMP cyphers 2015-10-07 13:08:13 ht_capab? 2015-10-07 13:08:49 yes, a ht_capab line in your hostapd.conf with stuff like [HT40-] or [HT40+] 2015-10-07 13:09:48 hmm, how do i know what capabs i can set? 2015-10-07 13:11:48 it's a Realtek 802.11n WLAN Adapter (usb) 2015-10-07 13:12:19 rtl8192cu 2015-10-07 13:13:46 there was an option to iw to make it dump the hardware info, but I can't find it. 2015-10-07 13:14:04 "iw wlan0 info" isn't giving the full details. 2015-10-07 13:14:58 ah, there: iw list 2015-10-07 13:15:29 the problem is, depending on the b0rkenness of the hardware, "iw list" may lie to you. 2015-10-07 13:15:56 only solution: experiment to find out where it lies. 2015-10-07 13:16:03 HT20/HT40 2015-10-07 13:16:55 the full list -> http://tpaste.us/GZEZ 2015-10-07 13:17:12 oh, I won't look at that, I'm far from a wifi expert 2015-10-07 13:17:23 but try enabling only the strict minimum you need to get a connection 2015-10-07 13:17:37 and work your way up from there. 2015-10-07 13:18:05 so, ht_capab=HT20 ? 2015-10-07 13:18:13 something like that 2015-10-07 13:18:25 get basic 802.11g working first 2015-10-07 13:24:02 nmeum: yeah autoconf2.13 can be removed 2015-10-07 13:32:04 ncopa: %685 2015-10-07 13:36:05 nmeum: thanks 2015-10-07 13:36:06 applied 2015-10-07 13:36:24 no problem, came across that package while looking at unmaintained packages 2015-10-07 13:36:31 thanks 2015-10-07 13:40:16 skarnet: looks like it's a driver problem http://bogeskov.dk/UsbAccessPoint.html 2015-10-07 13:40:31 from "Getting the "right" 8192cu driver" onwards 2015-10-07 13:42:24 ha. wifi never fails to surprise. 2015-10-07 13:49:04 well, that won't build, naturally 2015-10-07 13:58:39 https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers the Realtek support is pants 2015-10-07 14:00:26 yes... 2015-10-07 14:01:15 AFAIUI, Realtek hardware is so incomprehensible nobody wants to fix the drivers. 2015-10-07 14:02:07 iow: get an ath9k :-/ 2015-10-07 14:06:00 yes, this needs replacing. it's a USB wifi dongle with an antenna, but the all use realtek chipsets 2015-10-07 14:20:58 i think this should work -> http://tinyurl.com/os6pxk2 2015-10-07 14:21:46 TP-Link uses Atheros chipsets, so yes, it should 2015-10-07 15:59:57 skarnet: since we have an init expert among us, maybe i could ask for a little help 2015-10-07 16:01:41 i was initially thinking of only asking you to do code review 2015-10-07 16:03:18 but since you do have some experience with init i thought i could maybe ask you even help me write the code 2015-10-07 16:03:45 it is our initramfs init 2015-10-07 16:04:22 which is an organically grown shell script 2015-10-07 16:04:40 i am working on replacing bits of it with C code 2015-10-07 16:05:11 and remove all while ...; do ...; sleep ...; done 2015-10-07 16:05:32 remove all sleep waits 2015-10-07 16:06:40 First of all, you should know that my natural reaction when I hear "organically grown shell script" is "kill it with fire and redesign it properly" 2015-10-07 16:07:07 that said, what do you need and where is it? XD 2015-10-07 16:07:56 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/tree/initramfs-init.in 2015-10-07 16:08:27 yeah kill it with fire and redesign properly is what i want 2015-10-07 16:08:46 but i think we need to do it incrementally 2015-10-07 16:08:58 questions 2015-10-07 16:09:20 - when is this run: first install? every init? every init except some cases? 2015-10-07 16:09:34 every boot 2015-10-07 16:09:56 ugh 2015-10-07 16:09:58 you can set root=.... boot option 2015-10-07 16:10:10 and it will jump to root properly 2015-10-07 16:10:53 you have heard the idea i am working on before: netlink listener that handler coldplug events 2015-10-07 16:11:03 load modules as modalias shows up 2015-10-07 16:11:12 yeah, and you know my answer :) 2015-10-07 16:11:19 - what else is on the initramfs? 2015-10-07 16:11:31 busybox 2015-10-07 16:11:38 some kernel modules 2015-10-07 16:11:49 optionally mdadm, lvm 2015-10-07 16:11:59 apk (package manager) 2015-10-07 16:12:18 optionally openssl to decrytpt a config tarball 2015-10-07 16:12:59 so the idea is to do coldplug til it finds the stuff it needs to set up the root 2015-10-07 16:13:15 regardless if it is mdadm/lvm/cryptsetup 2015-10-07 16:13:18 or tmpfs 2015-10-07 16:13:44 i have working C code that can do mdadm/lvm/cryptsetup root 2015-10-07 16:13:52 but not the tmpfs stuff 2015-10-07 16:14:01 if it's tmpfs, where do you have the initial image? in the initramfs? 2015-10-07 16:14:35 you dont have prebuilt initial image 2015-10-07 16:14:42 you build it from initramfs 2015-10-07 16:14:49 using a config tarball and apk add 2015-10-07 16:15:11 and a mount with a apk repository 2015-10-07 16:15:24 waitwaitwait 2015-10-07 16:15:36 the init will find boot repository and an optional apkovl tarball 2015-10-07 16:15:43 and install that into tmpfs 2015-10-07 16:16:10 if you want to have a tmpfs root, it means you need to have storage with an apk repo to find a package where your root image is? 2015-10-07 16:16:34 or did I misunderstand? 2015-10-07 16:16:54 you need a storage ith apk repo 2015-10-07 16:17:09 + config which tells what packages to install into tmpfs 2015-10-07 16:17:54 storage with apk repo is normally same as boot media 2015-10-07 16:18:11 so that's... installing a machine at every boot 2015-10-07 16:18:16 correct 2015-10-07 16:18:23 yikes 2015-10-07 16:18:26 when you have tmpfs install 2015-10-07 16:18:45 :) 2015-10-07 16:18:56 hmmmmm 2015-10-07 16:18:59 ok 2015-10-07 16:19:25 lets say you had a tarball with the the root image 2015-10-07 16:19:40 that you want run in tmpfs 2015-10-07 16:19:45 and once you've installed the stuff, you simply switch_root and exec /sbin/init like everything else? 2015-10-07 16:19:50 yup 2015-10-07 16:20:11 lets say you did have a tarball as root image 2015-10-07 16:20:12 ok, so that's a separate problem 2015-10-07 16:20:21 correct 2015-10-07 16:20:30 if you had root image as tarball 2015-10-07 16:20:52 then you would need to tar -zxf $tarball -C $tmpfsroot 2015-10-07 16:20:56 yes 2015-10-07 16:21:06 that is basically what you are doing 2015-10-07 16:21:15 execpt you have more than one tarball 2015-10-07 16:21:23 you have a dynamic root image 2015-10-07 16:21:30 sure, sure 2015-10-07 16:21:38 .apk = tarball 2015-10-07 16:21:47 it's just that having a repo and a package manager sounds like heavy machinery for that 2015-10-07 16:22:06 originally it was just plain tarballs 2015-10-07 16:22:20 and managing them became impossible 2015-10-07 16:22:23 amirite? 2015-10-07 16:22:27 then i wanted dependency handling 2015-10-07 16:22:34 and then fabled wanted it to be fast 2015-10-07 16:22:38 so he wrong apk-tools 2015-10-07 16:22:42 wrote* 2015-10-07 16:22:56 you are rite 2015-10-07 16:23:03 secondary question: what is bootchartd? 2015-10-07 16:23:16 that is some tool to measure boot time 2015-10-07 16:23:21 where time goes during boot 2015-10-07 16:23:43 does it need to be a daemon? 2015-10-07 16:23:50 i have no idea 2015-10-07 16:23:54 i havent used it 2015-10-07 16:24:06 i dont think we have used it since apk-tools was made 2015-10-07 16:24:09 because starting daemons before executing the real init is kinda a no-no 2015-10-07 16:24:24 too hard to make it work properly 2015-10-07 16:24:36 i think it is designed to run that way 2015-10-07 16:24:41 but i dunno 2015-10-07 16:24:50 ugh 2015-10-07 16:25:25 it's too easy to leak resources when you start long-lived stuff before cleaning up the initramfs shit 2015-10-07 16:25:49 its only for debugging boot process 2015-10-07 16:25:57 ok, next question 2015-10-07 16:25:59 what is ovl? 2015-10-07 16:26:10 "overlay" 2015-10-07 16:26:12 its the config 2015-10-07 16:26:29 its a tarball with the files in /etc/ that differs from the .apk 2015-10-07 16:27:18 it's only used when / is a tmpfs, then, right? 2015-10-07 16:27:24 correct 2015-10-07 16:27:41 to test it, boot an alpine usb, run setup-alpine, select no disk 2015-10-07 16:27:49 then install some service 2015-10-07 16:28:02 and make it start at boot 2015-10-07 16:28:02 so I can ignore anything containing ovl if I just want to focus on the "get on to /sbin/init" stuff? 2015-10-07 16:28:07 then lbu commit 2015-10-07 16:28:33 what is needed is finding the boot repo and apkovl 2015-10-07 16:28:39 that is what is left 2015-10-07 16:29:28 here is the C code i have so far: http://tpaste.us/Gd58 2015-10-07 16:29:33 nlplug-findfs 2015-10-07 16:30:10 currently you need to specify the device that holds the boot repository 2015-10-07 16:30:16 as a boot param 2015-10-07 16:30:23 alpine_dev=... 2015-10-07 16:30:39 the idea is that the C code finds it 2015-10-07 16:30:43 and finds apkovl 2015-10-07 16:30:55 once those 2 are found it can exit 2015-10-07 16:31:03 as mission is accomplished 2015-10-07 16:31:27 then script can set up the tmpfs root 2015-10-07 16:31:50 so with this we will no loner need the alpine_dev boot option 2015-10-07 16:32:05 and we can boot on any block device as long as the kernel module is included in initramfs 2015-10-07 16:32:23 even if boot repository is on lvm 2015-10-07 16:32:26 mdadm 2015-10-07 16:32:31 usb disk 2015-10-07 16:32:34 scsi disk 2015-10-07 16:32:37 um 2015-10-07 16:32:56 so what you want is something that scans all possible boot devices to find an apk repo and ovl ? 2015-10-07 16:33:07 correct 2015-10-07 16:33:10 coldplug 2015-10-07 16:33:17 handle uevents 2015-10-07 16:33:24 is it blockdevice? 2015-10-07 16:33:31 if so, check if it is boot repo 2015-10-07 16:33:41 check if it has apkovl 2015-10-07 16:33:53 if both apkovl and boot repo found, then exit 2015-10-07 16:34:35 if no apkovl is found then let netlink socket timeout 2015-10-07 16:34:42 1 sec is probably enough 2015-10-07 16:34:55 that means doing *a lot* in initramfs 2015-10-07 16:34:57 mounting sys 2015-10-07 16:35:02 doing a coldplug 2015-10-07 16:35:04 we might need increase the timeout if an usb-1 contrroller is found 2015-10-07 16:35:12 that's stepping on the real init's toes 2015-10-07 16:35:23 how does a complete boot procedure react to that? 2015-10-07 16:35:24 somewhat yes 2015-10-07 16:35:36 normally works just fine 2015-10-07 16:36:52 the only thing might be that kernel modules are loaded early 2015-10-07 16:37:19 so you might need set the module params as boot option 2015-10-07 16:37:27 sorry, I have to say that I don't like it. Doesn't mean I don't want to help, but I don't like it. 2015-10-07 16:37:35 Too much magic, too many things that can fail. 2015-10-07 16:37:52 You *will* have annoyed users if you do this. 2015-10-07 16:37:58 i am open for ideas to fix it 2015-10-07 16:38:10 i am open to ideas 2015-10-07 16:38:19 but currently main problem is 2015-10-07 16:38:22 time 2015-10-07 16:38:22 what's wrong with the boot param? not flexible enough? not user-friendly enough? 2015-10-07 16:38:32 not flexible enough 2015-10-07 16:38:49 you need edit the syslinux.cfg 2015-10-07 16:38:55 and user needs to know where boot repo is 2015-10-07 16:39:04 well of course the user needs to know that 2015-10-07 16:39:15 I doubt Alpine users are as clueless as Windows users though 2015-10-07 16:39:21 some are :) 2015-10-07 16:39:39 yeah, you know I don't cater to those. 2015-10-07 16:39:53 i have a setup-bootable script that edits the syslinux.cfg 2015-10-07 16:40:04 using the UUID 2015-10-07 16:40:46 isn't that enough? 2015-10-07 16:40:57 but that does also means that you cannot simply dd an isohybrid 2015-10-07 16:41:13 what do you mean? 2015-10-07 16:41:39 isohybrid is an iso image that you dd to an usb stick 2015-10-07 16:41:49 but its iso9660 fs 2015-10-07 16:41:54 readonly 2015-10-07 16:42:03 so you cannot edit the syslinux 2015-10-07 16:42:16 you'd have to mount the fs? 2015-10-07 16:42:28 iso is readonly 2015-10-07 16:42:33 the bootloader doesn't understand iso9660 on usb? 2015-10-07 16:42:41 ah 2015-10-07 16:42:53 the syslinux.cfg is ON the iso 2015-10-07 16:42:56 yes 2015-10-07 16:43:20 i also thought that this could make EFI booting easier 2015-10-07 16:43:31 and you want to make it possible to boot on *another* repo than what you're providing on the iso 2015-10-07 16:43:51 normally not 2015-10-07 16:44:04 but it is ofcourse a cool feature 2015-10-07 16:44:26 doesn't syslinux provide an interactive thing as LILO did, where the user can type boot params? 2015-10-07 16:44:27 other problem with depending on static alpine_dev 2015-10-07 16:44:53 if we have sda1 as boot repo device 2015-10-07 16:45:14 what if user has a disk or 2 and want boot from usb to rescue 2015-10-07 16:45:17 or similar 2015-10-07 16:45:30 kernel might detect disk as sda and usb as sdb or sdc 2015-10-07 16:45:45 syslinux has boot params 2015-10-07 16:45:52 autodetection won't help for that, you'd need a policy on what to do if you find several repos 2015-10-07 16:46:14 if you stop at the first repo found, you won't get the configurability you're looking for 2015-10-07 16:46:23 you'd need to scan everything all the time and give the user a choice 2015-10-07 16:46:37 the current idea is to add every repository which has a file .boot_reposity in it 2015-10-07 16:47:04 it is also not uncommon that you reboot remotely 2015-10-07 16:47:20 but you still have to decide what to do when you find several of them 2015-10-07 16:47:39 add them all is current approach 2015-10-07 16:47:55 and let apk deal with dependencies 2015-10-07 16:49:18 if you are physically far from box then it is nice to have it come up even if you forgot you had an sdb disk or forgot to edit syslinux.cfg 2015-10-07 16:49:27 yes 2015-10-07 16:49:34 OK, I understand the idea 2015-10-07 16:49:40 but you still need to scan everything 2015-10-07 16:49:45 you can't stop early 2015-10-07 16:49:57 that is true technically 2015-10-07 16:50:28 so it *is* going to take time 2015-10-07 16:50:41 i expect most common setup for this is apkovl is on boot media 2015-10-07 16:51:23 so in most cases, if both apkovl and at least one boot repo is found, then we're done 2015-10-07 16:51:40 but you don't know that 2015-10-07 16:52:08 you are right 2015-10-07 16:52:21 unless we say we only support apkovl on boot media 2015-10-07 16:52:34 or have it as a boot option 2015-10-07 16:52:36 in that case, yes 2015-10-07 16:52:48 I have a lazy idea 2015-10-07 16:53:12 probably inefficient, but good as proof-of-concept at least 2015-10-07 16:53:54 register a simple checker as a temporary hotplug helper 2015-10-07 16:54:11 so you don't even have to handle the netlink, at start 2015-10-07 16:54:22 yeah, coldplug will crawl 2015-10-07 16:54:29 but it will be simple 2015-10-07 16:54:59 and then you can use something like the talked-about mdev -i to optimize 2015-10-07 16:55:25 i think with that we might be able to use our current "coldplug" approach which is not that slow 2015-10-07 16:55:28 or your nldev / my s6-uevent-listener 2015-10-07 16:56:03 anything that avoids reimplementing an ad hoc netlink client 2015-10-07 16:56:12 i thought abit about that actually 2015-10-07 16:56:38 but main script needs to block til helper tells that it found what it needs 2015-10-07 16:56:40 or timeout 2015-10-07 16:56:47 i figured it would be ugly in shell 2015-10-07 16:56:52 regardless 2015-10-07 16:56:58 nah, that's doable 2015-10-07 16:57:13 it all depends on the checker 2015-10-07 16:57:25 and now I have to ask 2015-10-07 16:58:26 for the salary? :) 2015-10-07 16:58:31 would you install a few s6/s6-linux-utils binaries on the initramfs? because I already have all the tools 2015-10-07 16:58:48 and it's just about coding the mission-specific stuff, which is small 2015-10-07 16:59:03 yes 2015-10-07 16:59:11 but I don't like reinventing the wheel 2015-10-07 16:59:20 when I've done it before XD 2015-10-07 16:59:24 understand 2015-10-07 16:59:52 but the biggest current problem is time 2015-10-07 17:00:02 i want this for v3.3 release 2015-10-07 17:00:15 freeze should have been done this week 2015-10-07 17:00:27 so I am late :-/ 2015-10-07 17:00:49 yeah, a new implementation isn't exactly what you want to do on a freeze week 2015-10-07 17:01:11 how about I just do a code review for you and we can make deeper changes later after v3.3? 2015-10-07 17:01:19 sounds good 2015-10-07 17:01:49 because I see your initramfs init script and my chainsaw is itching 2015-10-07 17:01:56 lol 2015-10-07 17:02:17 seriously i *want* chainsaw it 2015-10-07 17:02:30 but just not right now 2015-10-07 17:02:38 makes sense 2015-10-07 17:02:53 so about the code you pasted 2015-10-07 17:03:18 where is it at? is it working? are features missing, and which ones? 2015-10-07 17:03:32 i have it in a local repo 2015-10-07 17:03:54 the missing feature is complete the find .boot_repository 2015-10-07 17:03:58 and find apkovl 2015-10-07 17:04:04 the rest works 2015-10-07 17:04:25 it works for sysinstall, root on disk 2015-10-07 17:04:41 i have the code in local repo 2015-10-07 17:04:54 i was thinking of push it to mkinitfs.git 2015-10-07 17:05:11 should probably push it to a branch 2015-10-07 17:05:35 questions/comments about details 2015-10-07 17:06:11 I can't read multithreading - what are you creating a thread for? 2015-10-07 17:06:53 trigger_thread scans, the main thread waits? 2015-10-07 17:07:02 for notifications? 2015-10-07 17:07:53 for triggering the events while main thread start handle the uevents 2015-10-07 17:08:32 you could just fork a mdev -s 2015-10-07 17:08:32 i found out that without it it, i need the netlink socket buffer size to be big enough to hold *every* event 2015-10-07 17:08:57 i used to fork a trigger script 2015-10-07 17:09:23 what went wrong? 2015-10-07 17:10:09 needed to handle sigchild 2015-10-07 17:10:21 XD 2015-10-07 17:10:40 selfpipes, man. 2015-10-07 17:11:18 and it as not that much extra c code 2015-10-07 17:11:24 to not depend on something external 2015-10-07 17:11:27 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/commit/?h=nlplug-findfs&id=295fd602887e9166047404ba47c0ce7667944e13 2015-10-07 17:11:41 i just pushed the feature branch 2015-10-07 17:11:49 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/?h=nlplug-findfs 2015-10-07 17:11:54 it's still code duplication and maintenance burden. 2015-10-07 17:12:11 if you have a busybox in your initramfs, you can have a mdev -s 2015-10-07 17:12:18 for basically no cost 2015-10-07 17:12:29 mdev -s is not full coldplug iirc 2015-10-07 17:12:57 i better check that before i say anthing else 2015-10-07 17:14:58 yes 2015-10-07 17:15:10 it is not full coldplug 2015-10-07 17:15:21 ah. what's missing? 2015-10-07 17:15:34 echo "add" > uevent 2015-10-07 17:15:51 it will only find already found devices 2015-10-07 17:15:55 and mknod them 2015-10-07 17:16:17 ah 2015-10-07 17:16:19 it will only find devices that kernel already know about 2015-10-07 17:16:55 i used this script: 2015-10-07 17:17:09 find /sys/bus /sys/devices -name uevent | while read f; do 2015-10-07 17:17:09 echo "add" > "$f" 2015-10-07 17:17:09 done 2015-10-07 17:17:53 but ended up duping the code in C 2015-10-07 17:18:29 i figured i will need a recursive scanner for .boot_repository anyways 2015-10-07 17:18:52 that coldplug adds state to the kernel; is it ok for userspace to boot with a fully plugged kernel? 2015-10-07 17:19:15 yeah, well, recursive scanning isn't much better in C than in shell 2015-10-07 17:19:23 Unix sucks for that 2015-10-07 17:19:49 you mean boot after switch_root? 2015-10-07 17:19:53 yes 2015-10-07 17:19:54 yes its no problem 2015-10-07 17:20:11 just wasteful to mdev -s after that 2015-10-07 17:20:15 I guess 2015-10-07 17:20:31 i ran that script many times on work desktop and laptop 2015-10-07 17:20:42 with eudev 2015-10-07 17:21:12 the userspace boot can just do colplug as it wants afterwards 2015-10-07 17:21:26 the only thing it notice is that there are some kernel modules already loaded 2015-10-07 17:23:21 yeah, wasteful, but no failure, so that's ok 2015-10-07 17:24:06 and its not that slow 2015-10-07 17:26:03 ok, next question 2015-10-07 17:26:05 i have some uncommitted work in progress to find .boot_repository 2015-10-07 17:26:23 http://tpaste.us/249j 2015-10-07 17:26:35 what's the waste of time you were talking about? you seemed to imply you had a timeout or poll somewhere and you could avoid it via notification 2015-10-07 17:27:27 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/tree/initramfs-init.in#n139 2015-10-07 17:28:02 aha 2015-10-07 17:28:29 in theory same thing is needed for any disk controller 2015-10-07 17:28:41 but i think they init so fast that it is no problem 2015-10-07 17:28:55 but mdadm raid 2015-10-07 17:29:12 and lvm need a bit time 2015-10-07 17:29:24 does the kernel notify something, via netlink or otherwise, or is it necessary to grep the logs? 2015-10-07 17:29:42 how do you mean? 2015-10-07 17:29:57 when the device scan is complete 2015-10-07 17:30:05 the kernel send uevent for every block device 2015-10-07 17:30:10 and you get the usb-storage: device scan complete message 2015-10-07 17:30:16 i dont know really 2015-10-07 17:30:16 wow 2015-10-07 17:30:28 my client did something funny with fonts here 2015-10-07 17:30:59 maybe you got attacked via that freetype vuln? :) 2015-10-07 17:31:19 maybe 2015-10-07 17:31:32 don't say it too loud, but I'm using Windows, and mIRC 2015-10-07 17:31:47 :-O 2015-10-07 17:32:26 that was wrong truth to reveal here :) 2015-10-07 17:32:50 on the contrary, if you saw my setup, I'm sure you'd like it 2015-10-07 17:33:28 idc for the "Linux Desktop", I have one Windows client machine, with PuTTYs to Unix machines all over the world 2015-10-07 17:33:47 something like 20 terminals XD 2015-10-07 17:33:59 ok 2015-10-07 17:34:05 i eat my own dogfood 2015-10-07 17:34:09 for breakfast 2015-10-07 17:34:12 for lunch 2015-10-07 17:34:15 for dinner 2015-10-07 17:34:16 and a VMWare player virtual machine with Alpine in it 2015-10-07 17:34:37 i do have one ubuntu box in living room though 2015-10-07 17:34:42 due to netflix 2015-10-07 17:35:10 eh, that's my *client*. The skarnet.org server is homemade and so is my router, so you can't pretend I don't eat my dogfood. :P 2015-10-07 17:35:10 but i do admit that i have dual boot on laptop 2015-10-07 17:35:25 windows 10 2015-10-07 17:35:52 but i only use windows for running antivirus and install updates... 2015-10-07 17:36:06 honestly, I like Windows as a client: at least I'm not going to look under the hood and be horrified 2015-10-07 17:36:17 as happens systematically when I have a Linux desktop 2015-10-07 17:36:20 :D 2015-10-07 17:37:12 so back to my question 2015-10-07 17:37:41 do I need to grep the kernel sources for "usb-storage: device scan complete" 2015-10-07 17:37:46 i dont know if you can get a kernel notification for "i am done scanning usb" 2015-10-07 17:38:37 you can grep the logs without polling though 2015-10-07 17:39:06 and in theory, we dont need wait for kernel to complete the scan 2015-10-07 17:39:08 set up a klog reader before the scan, read in real-time, forget dmsg 2015-10-07 17:39:22 we only need to wait til we have found what we are looking for 2015-10-07 17:39:59 if there is a root=UUID=.... 2015-10-07 17:40:03 but you don't know that you've found everything until you've scanned everything 2015-10-07 17:40:12 ok 2015-10-07 17:40:23 that is a kinda good point 2015-10-07 17:40:55 of course, if you do have a bootparam, you should skip all the autodetection 2015-10-07 17:41:02 we could drop the timeout if we get "device scan complete" 2015-10-07 17:41:22 i still need autodetect disk controller 2015-10-07 17:41:25 raid controller 2015-10-07 17:41:28 usb controller 2015-10-07 17:41:57 why, if the user tells you exactly what device to use? 2015-10-07 17:42:18 user might tell what UUID 2015-10-07 17:42:33 or device name like sda1 2015-10-07 17:42:47 kernel does not know that sda is a hw raid conroller 2015-10-07 17:43:01 so it still need coldplug stuff 2015-10-07 17:43:08 load proper kernel modules 2015-10-07 17:43:21 ok, taking a step back 2015-10-07 17:43:24 or two or three 2015-10-07 17:43:44 this is seriously duplicating the work of the real init 2015-10-07 17:43:55 yes 2015-10-07 17:44:26 but you need load the drivers and whatever to find the real init 2015-10-07 17:44:34 so I would simply make a minimal default tmpfs and boot on it, and defer all the search to a later script 2015-10-07 17:44:45 to really populate the tmpfs 2015-10-07 17:45:22 ah, yeah 2015-10-07 17:45:30 you don't know what the real init is -_- 2015-10-07 17:45:48 "a minimal default tmpfs" 2015-10-07 17:45:52 gah, this is absurd. This is exactly why I don't like / as a tmpfs 2015-10-07 17:45:56 that is kind of what initramfs is 2015-10-07 17:46:07 yeah, but you have to duplicate so much work. 2015-10-07 17:46:36 you have to do an init in the initramfs in order to do another one in the real rootfs. 2015-10-07 17:46:59 yes 2015-10-07 17:47:05 and we're trying to solve problems here that should already have been solved via standard service management and coldplug. 2015-10-07 17:47:27 do you know how debian and fedora and gentoo initramfs looks like? 2015-10-07 17:47:33 yeah. 2015-10-07 17:47:33 the run udev in initramfs 2015-10-07 17:47:47 What should be in /bin, they have in initramfs 2015-10-07 17:47:54 It's insane. 2015-10-07 17:48:01 It's unmaintainable. 2015-10-07 17:48:22 it is actually what it is, /bin and /sbin moved to initramfs 2015-10-07 17:48:38 Linus should have hurt himself badly the day he invented initramfs 2015-10-07 17:48:45 things would be much simpler! 2015-10-07 17:48:49 :) 2015-10-07 17:49:07 the only task initramfs has is to find and mount / 2015-10-07 17:49:57 linus didnt want implement full lvm mdadm cryptsetup etc in kernel 2015-10-07 17:50:09 so they invented "early userspace" 2015-10-07 17:50:53 oh, i think you can also have / on nfs... 2015-10-07 17:51:07 i have not tested that though 2015-10-07 17:51:27 Nobody semi-sane has / on nfs, not since 1993 2015-10-07 17:52:01 early userspace is cool, what is not cool is duplicating work 2015-10-07 17:53:22 i doubt it i possible implement this without duplicate work without create even bigger mess 2015-10-07 17:53:33 or include every single kernel module in the initramfs 2015-10-07 17:54:01 what happens when you want to boot on a RAID device *without* your / being a tmpfs? when you want / to be a lvm for instance? 2015-10-07 17:54:06 can you do that with Alpine? 2015-10-07 17:54:14 yes 2015-10-07 17:54:34 you still have to insmod the drivers etc. 2015-10-07 17:54:50 right? 2015-10-07 17:54:56 infact, the current nlplug-findfs handles that just fine 2015-10-07 17:54:59 yes 2015-10-07 17:55:32 it handles root on mdadm, lvm cryptsetup 2015-10-07 17:55:41 in any stack order 2015-10-07 17:55:50 So, can the work be factorized? 2015-10-07 17:56:31 how do you mean? 2015-10-07 17:57:08 i am planning to use the same code to mount root without tmpfs 2015-10-07 17:57:27 same code should optionally find boot_repos/apkovl 2015-10-07 17:58:22 that was my question 2015-10-07 17:58:29 yes 2015-10-07 17:58:37 i started with the root without tmpfs case 2015-10-07 17:58:42 as that was easier 2015-10-07 17:58:46 that part works 2015-10-07 17:59:05 I see at some point you're setting mdev as hotplug handler and running mdev -s 2015-10-07 17:59:21 this should be factorized if you're running nlplug-something 2015-10-07 17:59:28 that is what i am about to replace 2015-10-07 17:59:41 new coudl will not use mdev as hotplug handler 2015-10-07 17:59:46 and mdev -s will not run 2015-10-07 17:59:59 instead i'll trigger echo "add" > uevent 2015-10-07 18:00:26 you're running scan_drivers twice 2015-10-07 18:00:33 why? 2015-10-07 18:01:20 because it wouldnt find all devices due to it is not a "proper" coldplug 2015-10-07 18:01:33 it will only find modaliases 2015-10-07 18:01:36 load those modules 2015-10-07 18:01:53 if one of those loaded modules created a new modalias in sysfs 2015-10-07 18:01:57 it would not load it 2015-10-07 18:02:01 (i think it does now) 2015-10-07 18:02:34 i think that problem got solved when mdev got support for MODALIAS 2015-10-07 18:02:43 I'd still run your proper coldplug ("add" uevents) as a separate binary 2015-10-07 18:03:12 so I could run it independently from the various listeners 2015-10-07 18:03:32 you'd want a listener when you're looking for the / device 2015-10-07 18:04:05 you want a listener to know when subsystems are done 2015-10-07 18:04:17 why? 2015-10-07 18:04:32 i only what a listener that knows when the / device is done 2015-10-07 18:05:44 ok, but that listener isn't the same as the one that waits for all the devices where you can find the repo+ovl 2015-10-07 18:05:57 so don't tie the coldplugger to any of those listeners 2015-10-07 18:06:13 ...or the device(s) that has the stuff needed for tmpfs / 2015-10-07 18:06:19 yes 2015-10-07 18:06:52 what I mean is, you need to coldplug anyway, and depending on the boot options you have different sets of notifications you need 2015-10-07 18:07:08 so, make the coldplugger independent 2015-10-07 18:07:34 my current approach is 2015-10-07 18:08:10 if root=$rootdev is set as boot prompt ( / on disk) 2015-10-07 18:08:27 then call nlplug-findfs $rootdev 2015-10-07 18:08:41 and then mount $rootdev /newroot 2015-10-07 18:09:36 if root= boot option is not set, then call nlplug-findfs -b /tmp/bootrepolist -a apkovlsymlink 2015-10-07 18:10:14 and same nlplug-findfs will look for bootrepos and apkovl 2015-10-07 18:10:46 makes sense 2015-10-07 18:10:58 that is, i have a single program that does coldplug til it find what i am looking for 2015-10-07 18:11:39 nlplug-findfs $rootdev works currently 2015-10-07 18:11:47 and what is your "wait for usb to settle" thing? will that go away with nlplug-findfs ? 2015-10-07 18:11:55 that is the idea 2015-10-07 18:12:09 the idea is that anything doing 'sleep 2015-10-07 18:12:12 ill go aay 2015-10-07 18:12:21 sorry 2015-10-07 18:12:30 anything doing 'sleep' will wo away 2015-10-07 18:12:32 go* 2015-10-07 18:12:38 typing is hard 2015-10-07 18:12:53 well if nlplug-findfs is doing all the work 2015-10-07 18:13:00 i wonder if *i* should go to sleep soon... 2015-10-07 18:13:18 then I have nothing to add - just commit your changes and I'll have a look 2015-10-07 18:13:28 :) 2015-10-07 18:13:30 ok thanks 2015-10-07 18:13:38 where I can really be useful is when you decide to axe the whole thing 2015-10-07 18:14:16 in particular if you're opening the project to different init systems 2015-10-07 18:14:19 ok lets do that after v3.3 release 2015-10-07 18:14:31 then the initramfs will need to be as agnostic as possible 2015-10-07 18:14:44 *nod* 2015-10-07 18:41:50 ntfs mount is slow 2015-10-07 22:27:20 13:36 < skarnet> honestly, I like Windows as a client: at least I'm not going to look under the hood and be horrified 2015-10-07 22:27:29 can't you be horrified *wihotu* even having to look under the hood 2015-10-07 22:39:14 https://github.com/auchenberg/volkswagen 2015-10-08 06:19:30 ammunta: you have to know something well to be properly horrified. We use horrifying stuff every day, blissfully, because we don't know the details. Processed food. Plane tickets. Democracy. Mozilla Firefox. 2015-10-08 06:27:25 at least for Firefox we have things like Firejail ... 2015-10-08 06:27:28 :P 2015-10-08 07:07:36 morning 2015-10-08 07:16:00 omg, ncopa online at night? 2015-10-08 07:16:35 omg2, poor arm builder 2015-10-08 07:18:48 morning 2015-10-08 07:19:04 i figured i simply had to code at night to get this done... 2015-10-08 07:19:19 yeah arm builder is chewing libreoffice 2015-10-08 07:19:21 still 2015-10-08 07:23:10 are you using native builders or something like qemus? 2015-10-08 07:23:17 native 2015-10-08 07:23:53 building a whole distro on a Raspberry Pi? yeah, poor thing 2015-10-08 07:24:03 wandboard 2015-10-08 07:24:15 poor thing anyway :) 2015-10-08 07:24:39 didn't know what a wandboard is... damn you, now I want one 2015-10-08 07:24:43 distcc on 4 scaleway's :) 2015-10-08 07:26:29 do you have a dedicated compilation farm, hosted somewhere? or is it as DIY as it gets? 2015-10-08 07:27:05 our infra is mostly diy. scattered over the world 2015-10-08 07:27:39 most of our boxes are running lxc 2015-10-08 07:28:26 do you need root to work, or can you make do with a simple user acc? 2015-10-08 07:29:50 for our builders? 2015-10-08 07:29:53 yes 2015-10-08 07:30:29 you kinda need root for installing buildtime dependencies on the builder 2015-10-08 07:30:29 well, the user who builds needs to be member of abuild group 2015-10-08 07:31:06 oh, you can only build under Alpine, right? 2015-10-08 07:31:11 yes 2015-10-08 07:31:20 ... I wonder how you bootstrap this :) 2015-10-08 07:31:23 we build natively 2015-10-08 07:32:30 we build crosscomplier, and then we crosscompile all the base tools (musl, busybox, gcc, apk-tools, etc) 2015-10-08 07:34:08 (I meant the first Alpine build, since you can only build Alpine under Alpine. But you always have an installer at hand now, so that's not a problem.) 2015-10-08 07:34:49 alpine 1.8 and earlier was built with gentoo 2015-10-08 07:35:20 I see. 2015-10-08 07:43:15 skarnet, for the very minimal bootstrap docs: http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/User:Fabled 2015-10-08 07:43:42 we bootstrapped arm a year or two ago. and have not done bootstrap since. so it may or may not work currently. 2015-10-08 07:49:09 ok i think nlplug-findfs is done 2015-10-08 07:49:14 just need test and debug 2015-10-08 07:49:31 it compiles at least... :) 2015-10-08 07:55:52 what replaces sendmail for most people. msmtp or ssmtp ? 2015-10-08 08:00:43 "most people" isn't a good metric, because "most people" don't give a duck 2015-10-08 08:01:42 ncopa: going to take a look 2015-10-08 08:04:15 skarnet: i have one push yet to do 2015-10-08 08:04:23 k. no rush 2015-10-08 08:04:35 just testing that it does what i think it does 2015-10-08 08:05:23 skarnet: ok, "what replaces sendmail for anyone who would care to share their experiences"? 2015-10-08 08:06:10 (just for local MUA to remote SMTP relay transit, not full MTA) 2015-10-08 08:09:13 skarnet: I've built alpine stuff in gentoo and kubuntu(shudder) chroot 2015-10-08 08:09:36 apk and abuild are friendly to compile on other things, as long as you aren't afraid of adding some headers 2015-10-08 08:10:42 https://code.foxkit.us/awilfox/overlay/blob/master/app-arch/apk-tools/files/apk-tools-2.6.4-glibc-add-missing-headers.patch 2015-10-08 08:10:45 this, mostly 2015-10-08 08:14:43 ScrumpyJack: I use a minimal qmail installation even for this case, but that's because it's me. I've usually heard mention of ssmtp for that use case, I haven't heard of msmtp, but that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into. 2015-10-08 08:16:23 awilfox: weird. musl is usually stricter than glibc about headers. Having to add a header just to compile with glibc doesn't feel right. 2015-10-08 08:19:01 skarnet: I'm suprised you haven't written your own. that's just lazy ;) 2015-10-08 08:20:52 oh, I will rewrite qmail someday, but it's a big project so I need funding for that. :P 2015-10-08 08:22:44 ScrumpyJack: I use qmail for real mail, and ssmtp on servers that need to send mail (like gitlab) 2015-10-08 08:23:06 skarnet: yeah, but limits.h and stdint.h are pulled in by the other headers 2015-10-08 08:23:11 skarnet: glibc doesn't pull them in in the same way 2015-10-08 08:23:55 i used qmail+courrier+vpopmail+spamassassin+elmlm+vqadmin+horde+maildrop+whatever for a long time, made some patches, kept it all tidy, but now life's too short. 2015-10-08 08:24:11 awilfox: that is a bug in apk-tools and should be fixed 2015-10-08 08:25:31 awilfox: I agree with ncopa here, if you need something in stdint.h it should be included no matter what. 2015-10-08 08:27:26 http://foxkit.us/linux/0001-abuild-fetch-add-missing-header.patch would be the other patch 2015-10-08 08:27:38 you can use both patches, or should I email them somewhere? 2015-10-08 08:28:12 ScrumpyJack: most of that stuff should Just Work and require very little maintenance. 2015-10-08 08:28:38 qmail+vpopmail is what I use, I needed a small patch in /etc/portage/patches to make pgsql work better 2015-10-08 08:28:42 (and faster) 2015-10-08 08:29:38 awilfox, thanks for apk-tools patch, i'll apply it 2015-10-08 08:31:00 awilfox: i applied abuild-fetch patch, thanks 2015-10-08 08:31:08 no prob :3 2015-10-08 08:32:42 awilfox, would you like to send git appliable patch with commit log, or you want me to prepare the commit? 2015-10-08 08:33:46 fabled: I can do a git format-patch 2015-10-08 08:33:48 has qmail licence changed, in the sense that it's packagable/distributable? i remember is used to be quite restrictive 2015-10-08 08:33:55 awilfox, ok, thanks. i'll wait for that then 2015-10-08 08:33:57 that .patch is just for my portage overlay 2015-10-08 08:33:57 it's public domain now. 2015-10-08 08:34:49 fabled: http://foxkit.us/linux/0001-blob-Add-missing-header.patch here you go 2015-10-08 08:35:27 awilfox, applied. thanks. 2015-10-08 08:37:25 skarnet: http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/tree/nlplug-findfs.c?h=nlplug-findfs 2015-10-08 08:52:06 ncopa: ack, will study in a moment 2015-10-08 09:10:40 would someone be kind enough put abook, calcurse, davfs2 and urlview into edge/main? 2015-10-08 09:15:01 ncopa: I'm going to be interrupted in the next hour, mind if I just dump bits of comments here as they come? 2015-10-08 09:15:35 just dump them as they come, thanks 2015-10-08 09:16:14 - it's obviously linux-specific code, so I wouldn't hesitate to #define _GNU_SOURCE at the top and use constructs to ease your life 2015-10-08 09:16:29 for instance, in init_netlink_socket() 2015-10-08 09:16:45 use SOCK_NONBLOCK|SOCK_CLOEXEC 2015-10-08 09:16:57 in socket() so you don't have to fcntl() later 2015-10-08 09:17:09 (the current code doesn't nonblock it) 2015-10-08 09:17:52 dont we want it to block? 2015-10-08 09:18:05 if we do poll() and there are no current events 2015-10-08 09:18:23 then we want it to block til there are events 2015-10-08 09:18:23 as soon as you poll(), you want nonblocking fds 2015-10-08 09:18:30 poll() will block 2015-10-08 09:18:36 it's just read() that won't 2015-10-08 09:18:51 poll() with blocking fds is ID 2015-10-08 09:18:56 not UB, but close 2015-10-08 09:21:36 - looks like you're blocking the loop while a child is running 2015-10-08 09:21:42 so something like: http://tpaste.us/G0E7 2015-10-08 09:22:00 exactly 2015-10-08 09:22:22 and it may open other simplifications laer 2015-10-08 09:22:58 is there a good reason not to yolo everything in parallel as soon as they're found? 2015-10-08 09:23:37 not really 2015-10-08 09:23:57 then remove the waitpids :) 2015-10-08 09:24:11 actually 2015-10-08 09:24:31 if you want to do stuff cleanly: set a selfpipe, store the pids in an array, and when you get a sigchld, waitpid() the correct one 2015-10-08 09:24:45 but since it's temporary, who cares, zombies will disappear once the parent exits 2015-10-08 09:24:55 i think i did it because i was worried that mdev scripts races 2015-10-08 09:25:17 it is possible to make mdev run for device nodes 2015-10-08 09:25:41 is mdev active when you run nlplug-findfs? 2015-10-08 09:25:50 as a hotplug handler or something? 2015-10-08 09:26:10 the original idea was that you could exec mdev as hotplug handler yes 2015-10-08 09:26:19 but in initramfs i suppose that is no problem 2015-10-08 09:26:41 it is probably better to run them in parallel 2015-10-08 09:26:46 the run_childs 2015-10-08 09:26:55 that's my point: if you're only using that in an initramfs and sweep it under the rug, you can be kinda dirty 2015-10-08 09:27:07 as long as everything is clean by the time /sbin/init is exec'd 2015-10-08 09:27:17 *nod* 2015-10-08 09:27:33 i can make kernel auto reap children by explicit ignore SIGCHLD 2015-10-08 09:28:10 i think that will speed up things for lvm on mdadm and those 2015-10-08 09:28:24 you can ignore sigchld indeed 2015-10-08 09:28:39 to avoid zombies 2015-10-08 09:28:40 I usually don't do it because I like my completion notifications 2015-10-08 09:28:43 but that's just me 2015-10-08 09:28:57 if you don't care about when the subprocess ends, go ahead 2015-10-08 09:29:27 apparently i dont care about exit status 2015-10-08 09:29:40 ah 2015-10-08 09:29:42 hm 2015-10-08 09:30:02 you don't want to exit nplug-findfs until all the subprocesses are done though 2015-10-08 09:30:27 that is true 2015-10-08 09:30:39 so I'd store the pids in an array and wait for everything at the end 2015-10-08 09:31:34 (all the primitives for that kind of thing are already in skalibs, hint hint) 2015-10-08 09:31:41 :) 2015-10-08 09:33:36 what's libkmod? does it comes with linux? 2015-10-08 09:34:14 or is it a 3rd-party layer to handle modules in an easier way? 2015-10-08 09:34:41 its a 3rd party lib 2015-10-08 09:34:45 kmod 2015-10-08 09:35:31 what does it do that you can't with modprobe and friends? 2015-10-08 09:35:45 since you're going to fork stuff anyway 2015-10-08 09:35:57 it can load the modules without forking 2015-10-08 09:36:00 so its faster 2015-10-08 09:36:37 if i for or not depends on if there are lvm or mdadm 2015-10-08 09:36:48 if no lvm or mdadm, then there are no forks 2015-10-08 09:37:07 how many modprobe forks would we be talking about? 10? 20? 2015-10-08 09:37:59 modaliases: 118 2015-10-08 09:38:17 events: 668 2015-10-08 09:38:53 yeah, at around 1kish it *may* become noticeable 2015-10-08 09:39:52 a fork+execve is ~1ms in the worst cases on a modern machine 2015-10-08 09:39:59 moprobe would need read in the deps and stuff for every modailas 2015-10-08 09:40:25 skarnet, modprobe is slow. 100+ modprobes is a lot in embedded world. 2015-10-08 09:41:36 if libkmod can make you factor significant work that would be duplicated in each modprobe, then ok 2015-10-08 09:46:10 isn't there a way to check whether a node is mounted without scanning /proc/mounts? 2015-10-08 09:46:46 i dont know 2015-10-08 09:47:01 neither do I XD 2015-10-08 09:47:22 ncopa, skarnet : statfs() might help, but depends on the exact use case 2015-10-08 09:48:00 fabled: if /dev/$device is mounted, then ignore and continue 2015-10-08 09:48:31 statfs needs the mountpoint 2015-10-08 09:49:33 ncopa: why do you accept messages from userland root instead of only the kernel? 2015-10-08 09:49:37 yes. i think you need to enumerate mounts from proc 2015-10-08 09:50:20 skarnet: thats leftovers from nldev i think 2015-10-08 09:51:01 which optionally could handle messages from udev 2015-10-08 09:51:42 if you scratch that, you can scratch all the SO_PASSCRED and SCM_CREDENTIALS stuff, and have simpler msghdrs 2015-10-08 09:51:56 just checking cnls.nl_pid 2015-10-08 09:54:33 i suppose i then could use recv() in stead of recvmsg() too 2015-10-08 09:55:21 no, you still need to test the flags 2015-10-08 09:55:26 for MSG_TRUNC 2015-10-08 09:56:59 I mean, if you *know* a maximum size for certain, then np 2015-10-08 09:57:25 but I really don't trust recv with dgrams 2015-10-08 10:00:50 nitpick: in bootrepo_cb, you do two writes when you could do one 2015-10-08 10:01:44 also, if you fail when open() fails, you should also fail when write() fails 2015-10-08 10:02:58 true 2015-10-08 10:03:33 same in find_apkovl() 2015-10-08 10:04:45 why the last * in the apkovl glob pattern? 2015-10-08 10:04:46 i could have used buffered io too 2015-10-08 10:05:13 meh, don't use stdio if you don't have to :P 2015-10-08 10:05:13 because you can encrypt the apkovl 2015-10-08 10:05:29 foo.apkovl.tar.gz.aes 2015-10-08 10:05:39 will try openssl decrypt it 2015-10-08 10:05:47 and prompt for password 2015-10-08 10:06:09 looking at the organically grown init script 2015-10-08 10:06:16 its is really *horrible* 2015-10-08 10:06:18 :) 2015-10-08 10:06:22 glob on "*.apkovl.tar.gz | *.apkovl.tar.gz.*" instead then? 2015-10-08 10:06:48 because else foo.apkovl.tar.gzorglub matches 2015-10-08 10:07:05 true 2015-10-08 10:07:07 its a shortcut 2015-10-08 10:07:24 to avoid running glob more than once 2015-10-08 10:07:36 i need lunch 2015-10-08 10:08:09 go have lunch, I'll talk to the log archiver :) 2015-10-08 10:10:46 in find_bootrepos: you mkdir() without testing the return value 2015-10-08 10:12:12 Unix filesystems are fickle. Unless you *know* it will work (big tmpfs you just made yourself), test the return code, ignoring EEXIST if that's intended. 2015-10-08 10:14:42 also, umount() can fail... like close(), there's not much you can do if it does, but at least print a warning. 2015-10-08 10:15:30 (no, I'm not suggesting to test for close() failures, my OCD isn't *that* severe) 2015-10-08 10:20:56 in process_uevent: setenv() changes global state, *and* it leaks memory. That's not what you want to use in a loop. 2015-10-08 10:21:40 Here, you just want to potentially execute a child with a different environment. 2015-10-08 10:22:31 Build the new environment by copying environ and replacing the PATH entry with the one you want. 2015-10-08 10:22:49 Pass that new environment to run_child that will use it in execve(). 2015-10-08 10:23:29 (again, I have functions in skalibs to make that easy...) 2015-10-08 10:29:00 in main(): testing EOF with poll() is complicated, because no two types of descriptors have the same behaviour... 2015-10-08 10:29:23 apparently for the netlink, it's POLLHUP without POLLIN 2015-10-08 10:29:42 but it could as well be POLLIN|POLLHUP and you would infiniloop 2015-10-08 10:30:12 so I'd add an exit condition when recvmsg() returns 0. 2015-10-08 10:34:50 and that's all I can say at first sight... I'll do a second pass later. 2015-10-08 10:35:05 (but first, lunch, and LoL Worlds.) 2015-10-08 10:41:41 scaleway doesnt like its alpine image. 2015-10-08 10:56:27 skarnet: would be nice to have a demo iso using s6 here http://skarnet.org/software/s6/ 2015-10-08 10:57:02 or atleast distros that uses (success stories) 2015-10-08 11:25:46 vkris: so far, I only know of individual users. As for distros/isos, I'm counting on Alpine to pop that cherry soon. ;) 2015-10-08 11:26:33 there are multiple instances of it working though. skarnet.org is one. http://linsam.homelinux.com/extra/s6-altsim/jor1k/demos/s6-rc.html is another. 2015-10-08 11:38:35 skarnet: can it make coffee already? 2015-10-08 11:39:03 would be nice to have simple demo iso 2015-10-08 11:40:27 clandmeter: s6-coffee-maker is planned for next year 2015-10-08 11:40:32 ok if it just has kernal,initramfs+busybox 2015-10-08 11:41:55 skarnet: apk tools is still limited: apk fetch coffee 2015-10-08 11:43:01 fabled: it seems that openjdk8 is broken on x86 2015-10-08 11:43:04 http://build.alpinelinux.org/buildlogs/build-edge-x86/community/kodi/kodi-15.1-r0.log 2015-10-08 11:43:21 Caught: java.lang.ClassFormatError: Truncated class file 2015-10-08 11:43:21 java.lang.ClassFormatError: Truncated class file 2015-10-08 11:44:14 clandmeter: it should give a proper error message instead of talking back to the user! 2015-10-08 11:44:47 ncopa: ah thats the issue i had. 2015-10-08 11:45:03 i was mixing terminals... 2015-10-08 11:45:29 or it randomly also crashed on 64.. 2015-10-08 11:53:32 ncopa, could kodi parallel build error too? 2015-10-08 11:54:14 BOOTSTRAP_STANDALONE=1 make -f bootstrap.mk && 2015-10-08 11:54:14 BOOTSTRAP_STANDALONE=1 make -f codegenerator.mk 2015-10-08 11:54:23 it could yes 2015-10-08 11:54:28 will check that soonish 2015-10-08 12:17:29 yes it is parallel build fail 2015-10-08 12:30:35 i am about to push %686 2015-10-08 12:30:48 it didint kill my wifi on my laptop 2015-10-08 12:30:58 anyone else want to test it before i push? 2015-10-08 13:08:39 ncopa: mono fails on arm 2015-10-08 13:08:50 In file included from exceptions-arm.c:18:0: 2015-10-08 13:08:50 /usr/include/asm/sigcontext.h:9:8: error: redefinition of 'struct sigcontext' struct sigcontext { 2015-10-08 13:08:55 ok 2015-10-08 13:45:11 ncopa: AL v3.3 will be http2 Ready or Full http2 ;) 2015-10-08 13:46:06 what is required for full http2? 2015-10-08 13:46:17 support in kernel? 2015-10-08 13:47:15 I think mainline nginx implements it 2015-10-08 13:47:32 would check if there are some kernel related opts too 2015-10-08 13:50:27 it's in apache in a module mod_h2 2015-10-08 13:50:44 vkris: does ngnix really support it or only via that patch? 2015-10-08 13:50:50 nice, would check 2015-10-08 13:51:00 http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_v2_module.html 2015-10-08 13:51:22 maybe have 1.9.5 in community/ 2015-10-08 13:53:05 which version do we have in main? 2015-10-08 13:53:06 vkris: the answer is: depends on what the webserver support 2015-10-08 13:53:33 if you install a webserver with full http2 support in alpine v3.3 then you'll have it ;) 2015-10-08 13:54:03 1.8.0 in main 2015-10-08 13:54:08 i guess we can upgrade it 2015-10-08 13:54:14 main/ has stable version 2015-10-08 13:54:23 1.9 is unstable? 2015-10-08 13:54:29 mainline 2015-10-08 13:54:36 i think it is development yes 2015-10-08 13:55:05 what does mainline even main in software aspect? 2015-10-08 13:55:10 mean 2015-10-08 13:55:13 vkris: you'll have to spank the nginx developers to ship a stable release with http2 support before we cut alpine v3.3 2015-10-08 13:55:22 we cannot make nginx releases 2015-10-08 13:55:27 nginx developers can 2015-10-08 13:55:28 having them in testing partially or fully would make v3.3 Http2 Ready 2015-10-08 13:55:53 wherea if in main/ or community then Full Http2 2015-10-08 13:57:01 mainline is an alternative for ppl who dont dare to call it unstable? 2015-10-08 13:58:45 we have testing/nghttp2 2015-10-08 13:59:14 so we have almost http2 ready now 2015-10-08 14:00:35 maybe add some lua+python+ruby tools/utils 2015-10-08 14:00:42 or bindings 2015-10-08 14:01:46 https://nghttp2.org/documentation/python-apiref.html 2015-10-08 14:05:29 btw, borrowed those marketing connotation from TV's HD Ready vs Full HD ;) 2015-10-08 14:11:21 edsiper is working on HTTP2 in monkey 2015-10-08 14:13:59 http://httpd.apache.org/docs/trunk/mod/mod_http2.html "This module relies on libnghttp2 to provide the core http/2 engine." nice!! 2015-10-08 14:20:31 firefox v41 has added nifty features 2015-10-08 14:21:01 should be fun to develop on it with http2 2015-10-08 14:28:56 aha, http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_v2_module.html, 2015-10-08 14:28:56 Note that accepting HTTP/2 connections over TLS requires the “Application-Layer Protocol Negotiation” (ALP[i]N[e]) TLS extension support 2015-10-08 14:28:59 Pls don't send those crazy bot biting bots after me :-)) 2015-10-08 14:38:09 if we add ofono, we make it 'telephony stack Ready' for mobiles 2015-10-08 14:40:13 #2132 2015-10-08 14:41:29 that means, more revenue generation possible, more than $200 ;) 2015-10-08 15:02:49 clandmeter: mainline == unstable 2015-10-08 15:05:20 or edge- (minus) ;) 2015-10-09 04:54:18 "Still, all common init systems insist that the same init executable must handle these three stages. From System V init to launchd, via busybox init, you name it - one init program from bootup to shutdown. No wonder those programs, even basic ones, seem complex to write and complex to understand!" ... okay, well, to be fair, in busybox's case 2015-10-09 04:54:28 same executable handling everything is 2015-10-09 06:39:53 was someone looking for ofono? maybe vkris ? 2015-10-09 07:00:32 it seems like boot time will be reduced with atleast 1 second with nlplug-findfs 2015-10-09 07:00:47 probably more 2015-10-09 07:01:11 that is boot iso image in qemu 2015-10-09 07:51:20 ncopa: how does that compare to: 08:46:52 up 864 days, 14:50, 1 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.04 2015-10-09 07:51:25 :p 2015-10-09 07:52:09 :) 2015-10-09 07:52:57 that load average says it's a lazy host :) 2015-10-09 07:53:35 actually it isnt :) 2015-10-09 07:53:54 its pretty active 2015-10-09 07:54:06 it our alpine linux SAN :) 2015-10-09 07:57:01 that uptime says it'a lazy sysadmin who dont install kernel fixes :) 2015-10-09 07:57:26 i came across an old alpine box the otherday with over 1100 days uptime 2015-10-09 07:57:44 i got scared and left without updating anything :) 2015-10-09 07:58:49 i think i have a plan for slow usb controllers 2015-10-09 07:59:17 currently you will actually ahve to add usbdelay= on boot prompt 2015-10-09 07:59:35 but i think i can detect usb-storage event and increase the timeout 2015-10-09 08:08:34 ncopa: would you be kind enough put abook, calcurse, davfs2 and urlview into edge/main ? 2015-10-09 08:14:15 ScrumpyJack: is it not enought with 'latest stable' support? 2015-10-09 08:14:45 eg. make it available for v3.3 but drop support for it when v3.4 comes out 2015-10-09 08:15:15 barthalion: abook is your package 2015-10-09 08:16:36 actually 2015-10-09 08:16:54 would be nice to wait moving them til ncurses is upgraded to 6 2015-10-09 08:17:52 davfs2 has bad depends 2015-10-09 08:24:20 ncopa: i don't understand 'latest stable' support 2015-10-09 08:26:26 what does 'drop support for it when v3.4 comes out' mean? it doesn't sound good 2015-10-09 08:34:13 it means you will have to upgrade to v3.4 when it comes out 2015-10-09 08:34:19 instead of continue run v3.3 2015-10-09 08:34:31 i am thinking of moving it to community repo 2015-10-09 08:37:21 ncopa: i still don't get it. 2015-10-09 08:38:12 if you put it them in edge/main, they do in the next release (3.3) is that correct? 2015-10-09 08:38:20 s/do/go 2015-10-09 08:38:22 correct 2015-10-09 08:38:31 but then i need provide sec fixes for it for 2 years 2015-10-09 08:38:38 and then the next release after that (3.4) 2015-10-09 08:38:58 and then the next is 3.5 and 3.6 2015-10-09 08:39:18 even if v3.6 is released, i will have to provide sec fixes for v3.3 2015-10-09 08:39:30 that is my question. is that really needed? 2015-10-09 08:39:51 or is it ok that i only provide sec fixes for v3.3 up to the v3.4 release 2015-10-09 08:41:32 so, community gets fixed up to next release? 2015-10-09 08:41:46 i will get my head round this one day :) 2015-10-09 09:11:57 i'll change me request ... 2015-10-09 09:12:23 ncopa: would you be kind enough put abook, calcurse, davfs2 and urlview into edge/community ? 2015-10-09 09:12:26 :) 2015-10-09 09:13:14 that is what i wanted to hear :) 2015-10-09 09:14:10 also, can we have sizes of the ISOs in bytes on the download page of the site? 2015-10-09 09:15:43 davfs2 moved to community 2015-10-09 09:18:21 ta. what about the others? 2015-10-09 09:18:37 abook is barthalions 2015-10-09 09:18:49 calcurse i want wait til after i upgraded ncurses 6 2015-10-09 09:18:55 and urlview will i look later 2015-10-09 09:18:58 busy now.. 2015-10-09 09:19:03 ok :) 2015-10-09 09:19:25 i'll open a ticket for the ISOs 2015-10-09 09:19:43 urlview has no release 2015-10-09 09:20:07 its just a random development snapshot 2015-10-09 09:20:16 we cannot support anything upstream dont want support 2015-10-09 09:20:37 ncopa: my SAN has a dont fix what isnt broke policy :) 2015-10-09 09:21:00 ScrumpyJack: file a request for a release: https://github.com/sigpipe/urlview/issues 2015-10-09 09:21:07 ok 2015-10-09 09:21:32 a tag, v0.1 is enough 2015-10-09 09:22:14 ncopa: can you check why mono didnt get build for arm? 2015-10-09 09:23:28 http://sprunge.us/ERYX 2015-10-09 09:24:58 ncopa: grsec kernel? 2015-10-09 09:25:32 ah yes 2015-10-09 09:25:48 i thought we didnt have that for arm 2015-10-09 09:25:51 we had to sysctl something 2015-10-09 09:25:52 Linux build-edge-armhf 3.18.20-2-grsec #3-Alpine SMP Sat Aug 29 05:23:48 GMT 2015 armv7l Linux 2015-10-09 09:26:08 that is actually pretty cool 2015-10-09 09:26:12 we have grsec for arm 2015-10-09 09:27:00 weird, for x86_64 its build just fine 2015-10-09 09:27:19 we had to sysctl something 2015-10-09 09:27:30 what does that mean? 2015-10-09 09:27:36 but i thought it was only x86 thingy 2015-10-09 09:28:03 # needed for goloang x86 2015-10-09 09:28:03 kernel.modify_ldt = 1 2015-10-09 09:28:45 i dont think modify_ldt is available on arm 2015-10-09 09:29:16 not sure i get it, do you mean you know why the build segfaulted? 2015-10-09 09:29:45 we had to set kernel.modify_ldt=1 on x86 to make golang build 2015-10-09 09:29:55 i have no idea why the build segfaulted 2015-10-09 09:30:39 anything special in dmesg? 2015-10-09 09:30:55 my local build is fine, but its without grsec 2015-10-09 09:31:20 on arm? 2015-10-09 09:31:45 yes 2015-10-09 09:31:56 please cp me the line 2015-10-09 09:32:06 [521201.131198] PAX: execution attempt in: (null), 00000000-00000000 00000000 2015-10-09 09:32:06 [521201.138115] PAX: terminating task: /home/buildozer/aports/testing/ffcall/src/ffcall-1.10/callback/trampoline_r/conftest(conftest):21509, uid/euid: 1000/1000, PC: (nil), SP: b03914f0 2015-10-09 09:32:27 thats not that one i guess :) 2015-10-09 09:32:41 notning related to mono? 2015-10-09 09:33:11 [2299045.981101] grsec: From 10.97.2.2: Segmentation fault occurred at (nil) in /home/buildozer/aports/testing/mono/src/mono-4.0.4/mono/mini/.libs/lt-mono-sgen[lt-mono-sgen:22698] uid/euid:1000/1000 gid/egid:1000/1000, parent /bin/busybox[sh:22697] uid/euid:1000/1000 gid/egid:1000/1000 2015-10-09 09:33:11 [2299046.006472] grsec: From 10.97.2.2: denied resource overstep by requesting 4096 for RLIMIT_CORE against limit 0 for /home/buildozer/aports/testing/mono/src/mono-4.0.4/mono/mini/.libs/lt-mono-sgen[lt-mono-sgen:22698] uid/euid:1000/1000 gid/egid:1000/1000, parent /bin/busybox[sh:22697] uid/euid:1000/1000 gid/egid:1000/1000 2015-10-09 09:33:50 hmm 2015-10-09 09:34:01 maybe paxmark for arm should be different? 2015-10-09 09:34:46 clandmeter: I jsut created issue #4759, and it seems to have been assigned to you. sorry about that, i didn't think i assigned 2015-10-09 09:34:56 ScrumpyJack: i see it 2015-10-09 09:35:14 i can try to check, but its ncopa's website :) 2015-10-09 09:35:22 does web site categories get assiged to you automatically? 2015-10-09 09:35:31 maybe 2015-10-09 09:35:32 i dont know 2015-10-09 09:38:18 fabled: should i set diff paxmarkings for arm build of mono? 2015-10-09 09:57:39 hm is there a reason apk bad fds out when /var/cache/apk doesn't exist instead of creating it? 2015-10-09 10:06:00 a lot stuff got removed in initramfs init script: http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/commit/?h=nlplug-findfs&id=ba27888b4576ceab7413ab9104d0aeda50990832 2015-10-09 10:06:24 grats 2015-10-09 10:06:42 whoa that's a lot of negative code 2015-10-09 10:06:55 just tell if you want me to take a look at nlplug-findfs's latest version 2015-10-09 10:19:54 skarnet: where does leapsecs.dat come from and how is it updated 2015-10-09 10:21:29 it comes from skalibs, and it's updated when you upgrade skalibs :) 2015-10-09 10:23:18 (it doesn't change often, roughly once every 3 years... leap seconds don't get added every day.) 2015-10-09 10:26:23 but I mean like 2015-10-09 10:26:29 it's just a blob??? 2015-10-09 10:27:25 yeah, it's a binary file. Does it matter? Leap seconds are the same for everyone... 2015-10-09 10:34:43 is the program generating it somewhere else or 2015-10-09 10:35:08 fcolista: thanks ! for ofono 2015-10-09 10:35:20 there is also http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/mmsd.git/tree/doc/architecture.txt 2015-10-09 10:36:38 ammunta: it's the "leapsecs" program in djb's libtai-0.60 2015-10-09 10:37:29 ah 2015-10-09 10:39:05 its possible to add the following to next release note: 2015-10-09 10:39:05 1. IOT friendly 2015-10-09 10:39:05 2. HTTP2 ready 2015-10-09 10:39:05 3. Telephone stack ready 2015-10-09 10:39:51 wait what 2015-10-09 10:40:12 4. bug ready 2015-10-09 10:41:02 :) 2015-10-09 10:42:28 you forgot to mention cloud, G4, privacy and self-driving cars 2015-10-09 10:43:51 well nobody sponsored/donated cars for testing, so.. not yet 2015-10-09 10:48:40 this looks interesting, https://github.com/01org/meta-intel-iot-security 2015-10-09 10:52:57 I only see buzzwords and "add this to get more security", which always leaves me very suspicious 2015-10-09 10:53:02 security is a process, not a product 2015-10-09 10:54:36 what this thing seems to do is replace d-bus with their own hardened version 2015-10-09 10:55:01 which isn't a bad idea, but if you want security, why the f are you using d-bus in the first place :P 2015-10-09 11:54:38 hmm, and no docs , not clear if its for yocto only project 2015-10-09 11:58:27 ah, there is also a hybrid driver, https://github.com/01org/intel-hybrid-driver 2015-10-09 12:21:18 ncopa, which are packages in main that i maintaines that need to be moved on community? 2015-10-09 12:24:13 http://sprunge.us/OhdB 2015-10-09 12:32:29 fcolista i think from testing to community: ScrumpyJack) ncopa: would you be kind enough put abook, calcurse, davfs2 and urlview into edge/community ? 2015-10-09 12:33:10 ncopa) abook is barthalions 2015-10-09 12:36:37 fcolista: pretty much everything but the kernel ;) 2015-10-09 12:36:50 bah 2015-10-09 12:36:59 still don't understand what goes there 2015-10-09 12:37:29 i was in the same boat, then ncopa showed me the light 2015-10-09 12:38:10 ncopa, "show me the light" 2015-10-09 12:39:45 if the answer to the question "Do I want to patch this package with security fixes for the life expectancy of the Alpine Linux release?" is "No", then it goes into community 2015-10-09 12:41:57 that is to say, if the life support for AL 4.0 is 5 years, the question becomes: "Do i want to patch that version mypackage for 5 years?" 2015-10-09 12:42:30 ok 2015-10-09 12:43:11 what does it mean "patch"? It's just sec or fixes. 2015-10-09 12:43:27 'cause new versions goes to edge 2015-10-09 12:43:34 yay! i have no idea! 2015-10-09 12:43:50 so basically are backports of security flaws and bug fixes 2015-10-09 12:45:05 backports? that's pushing verion updates to previous releases right? this is about sec fixes in it's current state/version isn't it? 2015-10-09 12:47:38 :) 2015-10-09 12:47:51 sorry, wrong window 2015-10-09 12:48:33 it needed have been - i'm confused enough to smile 2015-10-09 12:48:52 ok so what is kept in main are packages who needs to be "supported" as long as that very version of Alpine lives. 2015-10-09 12:49:21 "supported" means checking vuln and apply fixes 2015-10-09 12:49:36 that's also my understanding of it 2015-10-09 12:49:42 but not major upgrades, which goes to edge. 2015-10-09 12:49:43 Ok 2015-10-09 12:51:14 the term "community" doesn't convey all that 2015-10-09 12:51:45 +1 2015-10-09 12:53:33 ncopa: please change the new repo name from community to graveyard ;) 2015-10-09 13:04:55 bah 2015-10-09 13:05:05 v4l-utils 1.8.0 released 2015-10-09 13:05:08 but won't build 2015-10-09 13:05:17 jumps from 1.6.3 to 1.8.0 2015-10-09 13:32:35 ncopa, just tested nlplug-findfs patches on rasperry pi model B+ 2015-10-09 13:32:44 it speeds up things by 3 seconds during initramfs stage 2015-10-09 13:33:19 nice, otherwise without it ? 2015-10-09 13:34:40 vkris, ? 2015-10-09 13:34:51 I mean previous boot time 2015-10-09 13:35:06 oh, it's about 60 seconds - i've been looking at the bootchart how to improve that 2015-10-09 13:35:28 there's 2-3 big slow downs 2015-10-09 13:35:42 hmm... ewe 2015-10-09 13:35:47 fontcache generation is really slow - the next release due in 1 week - is supposed to be faster 2015-10-09 13:36:04 currently that's 8 seconds of boot time 2015-10-09 13:36:26 due to clock skew, openrc dependencies are calculated twice, which is 2 seconds extra 2015-10-09 13:36:58 mdev + hwdrivers module loading is about 6 seconds - it'll probably be a lot better when going to eudev 2015-10-09 13:37:12 i hope to get it around 30-40 seconds 2015-10-09 13:37:24 that would be ideal 2015-10-09 13:37:31 rpi version 2 model B, is a lot faster 2015-10-09 13:37:36 the cpu is a lot better there 2015-10-09 21:30:57 what uses testing/webkitgtk2 ? 2015-10-09 23:21:42 wxGTK and vuze are all I see @ vkris 2015-10-10 02:57:57 skarnet_afk: wait, do execline-shell and execline-startup ... exist? 2015-10-10 09:36:07 skarnet_afk: hey, would you mind a quick PM when you're around? 2015-10-10 10:22:28 awilfox: I won't be around much this week-end, but send me a mail :) 2015-10-10 10:30:54 it specifically had to do with IRC so it will wait for monday :) 2015-10-10 11:39:38 well you can always ask, I'll check IRC from time to time 2015-10-11 03:51:11 are there any https alpine mirrors suitable for e.g. fetching apk-tools-static 2015-10-11 10:18:08 ammunta: yes, they exist. Nobody but me uses them, but they work. 2015-10-11 10:42:53 maybe someone online today will know this: when there is 'core' in cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern where is the core stored then? 2015-10-11 10:45:42 AFAIK: in the cwd of the process that crashes 2015-10-11 10:49:39 cwd? 2015-10-11 10:49:52 you mean pwd of the binnary file? 2015-10-11 10:50:24 current working directory of the process. 2015-10-11 10:51:20 skarnet: I mean, are they published? 2015-10-11 10:51:42 they're documented but 2015-10-11 10:52:00 crow: try it. Write a trivial program doing something stupid like raise(SIGSEGV), enable cores, cd somewhere, run the program. 2015-10-11 10:52:06 See where the core appears. 2015-10-11 10:53:54 ammunta: weird, I'm looking in my source and can't find them. I must have removed them at some point... 2015-10-11 10:53:59 Oh, I know. 2015-10-11 10:54:00 skarnet well one program crashed and i cannot find the coredump, and i forgot to set the pfad where to store cores after reboot.. 2015-10-11 10:54:12 crow: that's what find is for :P 2015-10-11 10:54:26 skarnet well it is not there thats problem :) 2015-10-11 10:54:58 crow: if you rebooted and can't find the core, maybe it was stored in a tmpfs. 2015-10-11 10:55:42 ammunta: I had them installed in /etc at some point, but scrapped that, because installations would clobber old versions (which people would have modified) 2015-10-11 10:55:57 ammunta: so I removed them - but I should just have made an examples/ subdirectory 2015-10-11 10:56:10 skarnet no after reboot as these setting are not preserved its default in /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern just 'core' normaly i set it to echo "/var/cores/core.%e.%p.%h.%t" > /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern 2015-10-11 10:56:15 so they are in /var/cores/ 2015-10-11 10:56:17 and I didn't remove the doc pages mentioning them. 2015-10-11 10:56:40 crow: so, they're in /var/cores, what's the problem? 2015-10-11 10:56:41 and the coredump was after reboot so it should be "there somewere" what ever "core" is 2015-10-11 10:57:02 skarnet well no they are not, as i forgot to set pfad after reboot 2015-10-11 10:57:10 pfad? 2015-10-11 10:57:13 path 2015-10-11 10:57:33 cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern 'core' 2015-10-11 10:58:03 so, as I said, I believe that by default they are created in the current working directory of the process that crashed. 2015-10-11 10:58:23 But if you can't find it: did you make sure to set ulimit -c to something nonzero? 2015-10-11 10:58:27 well its started as init.d services .. 2015-10-11 10:58:39 skarnet yes it is set in the service file 2015-10-11 10:59:18 init.d services should start with / as cwd... 2015-10-11 10:59:26 in /etc/conf.d/progam rc_ulimit="-c unlimited" 2015-10-11 10:59:59 well as this is an "normal" user for sure it does not have right to dump to / 2015-10-11 11:00:27 then the core wasn't created. 2015-10-11 11:00:40 seems so 2015-10-11 11:01:04 [272638.365693] programXXX[10574]: segfault at 110 ip 00000bfd14a8bec7 sp 0000710cd84b9a40 error 4 in oscamserver[bfd14a4c000+e7000] 2015-10-11 11:01:10 i just have this in dmesg 2015-10-11 11:10:52 ncopa: is the community repo intended to be included as a default repo (like main), just without extended support? 2015-10-11 11:11:02 or will it be pinned? have to be added manually? 2015-10-11 13:49:23 packages in main/ can depend on packages in community/, right? 2015-10-11 15:02:59 nmeum: no 2015-10-11 15:03:22 community may depend on main 2015-10-11 15:03:31 testing can depend on main and/or community 2015-10-11 15:07:54 ah, alright thanks for the clarification 2015-10-11 15:22:00 ammunta: it will be enabled by default, but won't be supported after new major release is out 2015-10-11 19:33:39 where to save this to survey an reboot : kernel.core_pattern = /var/cores/core.%e.%p.%h.%t 2015-10-11 19:37:22 ok found it /etc/sysctl.conf 2015-10-12 07:02:55 morning 2015-10-12 07:19:00 morning 2015-10-12 07:19:16 winter is comming :| 2015-10-12 07:21:59 clandmeter: dont worry, winter is only temporary 2015-10-12 07:22:14 the sun will come back 2015-10-12 07:22:44 meanwhile, maybe we should keep the build servers busy to keep the heat in the buildings? :) 2015-10-12 07:23:27 i am slightly annoyed by xfce4-panel which crashes on some charsets 2015-10-12 07:23:35 http://bugs.alpinelinux.org/issues/4751 2015-10-12 07:23:53 what is weird is that xfwm handles to display the fonts just fine 2015-10-12 07:39:43 does it make a diff when you change font rendering? 2015-10-12 07:42:47 eeeeh you say that but up here it feels like winter at least 70% of the time probably more 2015-10-12 07:47:08 winter is already here 2015-10-12 07:47:42 there are even fresh falls of snow on the south 2015-10-12 08:06:31 barthalion: https://paste.xinu.at/7Wfcr/ cheers from upper silesia :f 2015-10-12 08:07:33 yeah, it's just cold here 2015-10-12 08:07:50 around 0°C. 2015-10-12 10:27:21 folks, one question about our rpi support 2015-10-12 10:27:54 is it possible to install this image on ext4/f2fs/not-fat32? 2015-10-12 10:28:14 barthalion, ? 2015-10-12 10:28:21 barthalion, rpi need the boot partition to be FAT32 2015-10-12 10:28:34 you can install rootfs on ext4 with setup-disk 2015-10-12 10:28:39 ah 2015-10-12 10:28:44 RTFM, I guess 2015-10-12 10:28:49 not sure if it's mentioned 2015-10-12 10:28:56 though, iprefer to run my rpis in tmpfs setup 2015-10-12 10:29:03 I didn't use it, but have been asked few days ago and I wasn't sure what to say 2015-10-12 10:29:05 it's immune to unexpected power off 2015-10-12 10:29:20 my images are mostly omxplayer and some lua stuff, though 2015-10-12 10:29:33 running java, or anything large in them is not possible with disk backed rootfs 2015-10-12 10:29:37 without* 2015-10-12 10:31:02 http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi do we have some more documentation? 2015-10-12 10:49:49 could someone take a look at %690 and %700? 2015-10-12 12:22:14 nmeum: %700 is wrong 2015-10-12 12:22:47 opusfile should use pkg-config --cflags opus to set C inlude -I /usr/include/opus) 2015-10-12 12:22:52 which it actually does 2015-10-12 12:27:22 hm, why is the include path for opus_multistream.h wrong then? 2015-10-12 12:45:47 it is not wrong? 2015-10-12 12:46:12 what error do you get? 2015-10-12 12:46:14 it works here 2015-10-12 12:49:22 when I try to include opus/opusfile.h I get the following compilation error '/usr/include/opus/opusfile.h:110:31: fatal error: opus_multistream.h: No such file or directory' 2015-10-12 12:49:34 with my patch I don't get that error 2015-10-12 12:50:00 I will look at the zmap error later this day, it's is strange though because I built fine here 2015-10-12 12:54:56 try build opusfile it with make V=1 2015-10-12 12:55:15 there should be a cflag: -I/usr/include/opus 2015-10-12 12:55:26 that comes from pkg-config --cflags opus 2015-10-12 12:55:59 gcc -I 2015-10-12 12:55:59 Any patch work instance for APK? 2015-10-12 12:56:09 will set the search path for include files 2015-10-12 12:56:24 awilfox: i dont think we have that 2015-10-12 12:56:28 Or where do I send things RFC? 2015-10-12 12:56:58 Tomorrow I am going to put the polish on a first version of a patch adding .xz to APK 2015-10-12 12:57:05 So it can do .gz or .xz 2015-10-12 12:57:38 ncopa: there isn't which is probably caused by the fact that opusfile doesn't have a pkg-config makedependency 2015-10-12 12:58:04 but you have opus-dev as make dep, right? 2015-10-12 12:58:20 hm, wait a sec 2015-10-12 12:58:23 opus-dev should have an /usr/lib/pkgconfig/opus.pc file 2015-10-12 12:58:33 which should pull in pkg-config as dep 2015-10-12 12:58:44 yeah yeah 2015-10-12 12:58:47 opus-dev should have pkg-config dep 2015-10-12 12:59:54 ncopa: what have you decided for LXC and CVE-2014-1334 2015-10-12 13:00:16 ScrumpyJack: ? 2015-10-12 13:00:28 i think we fixed it in all branches except v2.7 2015-10-12 13:00:37 do you need it for v2.7? 2015-10-12 13:00:43 ncopa: it does call gcc with the -I /usr/include/opus cflag but the opus_multistream header include is still wrong 2015-10-12 13:01:04 nmeum: can you abuild -r 2>&1 | tpaste 2015-10-12 13:01:05 or similar 2015-10-12 13:01:12 so i can look at the build log 2015-10-12 13:01:17 it works here 2015-10-12 13:01:18 yeah, I gotta go to lunch now will do so afterwards 2015-10-12 13:01:38 i'll go look for coffe 2015-10-12 13:02:27 ncopa: not at all. I just saw you chime up on #lxcontainers and wondered if you were going to backpart the patch or upgrade LXC 2015-10-12 13:03:32 i have a long list of other issues to fix too so i maybe just wait with lxc for now 2015-10-12 13:04:01 kk 2015-10-12 14:03:05 ncopa: http://paste42.de/9642/ 2015-10-12 15:25:32 checking for DEPS... yes 2015-10-12 15:25:51 package builds? 2015-10-12 15:25:59 whoops i gotta run 2015-10-12 15:26:02 see u 2015-10-12 20:09:20 uggedal seems to be missing again 2015-10-12 20:10:12 just want to say that his acontain script is almost perfect 2015-10-12 20:10:34 but way better than my workflow that consisted of copying files between container or build server 2015-10-12 20:39:21 yeah, it's pretty nice, started using a modified version of it myself 2015-10-12 20:41:50 what changes did you do? 2015-10-12 20:42:09 also, does anyone remember why we mirror vault tarball? 2015-10-12 20:44:05 okay, I guess I'm supposed to make a snapshot manually 2015-10-12 20:44:25 yeah 2015-10-12 20:44:32 the interessting thing about the vault tarball is that we call godep in snapshot 2015-10-12 20:44:33 acontain? 2015-10-12 20:44:38 I go to bed, it can wait for tomorrow 2015-10-12 20:44:44 nmeum: yeah, I remember now 2015-10-12 20:44:49 godep used to timeout 2015-10-12 20:44:54 yeah 2015-10-12 20:45:02 so we create amalgamated tarball instead 2015-10-12 20:45:03 that's the issue I ran into when calling it in build 2015-10-12 20:45:12 godep is a shitty piece of software I guess 2015-10-12 20:45:27 go is shitty for packaging 2015-10-12 20:45:47 yeah, but it could get better in the feature since go 1.5 supports vendoring dependencies 2015-10-12 20:46:21 more go software should start using that feature 2015-10-12 20:46:31 certainly 2015-10-12 20:46:35 I keep my fingers crossed 2015-10-12 20:46:38 git-lfs does for example and thus it was fairly easy to package 2015-10-12 20:47:42 I like go as a language but packaging it is certainly a pain in the ass 2015-10-12 21:06:50 is there anything in alpine like dpkg-divert? 2015-10-12 21:18:31 nmeum: exactly my feelings 2015-10-12 21:18:34 chris|: what is it? 2015-10-12 21:19:12 no, I don't think so 2015-10-12 21:19:19 barthalion: it moves files places by a package to a different location in a way that the package management can understand 2015-10-12 21:21:49 I'd like to move /sbin/init so I can place a script there that won't be overriden by the next openrc update 2015-10-12 21:31:36 why is the file mode for (almost) all directory in /sys set to 700? Which package is responsible for /sys permissions? 2015-10-13 05:05:42 chris|: if you can get fabled interested, I guess he'll implement this 2015-10-13 05:05:58 morning 2015-10-13 05:08:46 barthalion, get me interested of what? 2015-10-13 05:48:02 morning 2015-10-13 05:48:20 23:06:50 is there anything in alpine like dpkg-divert? 2015-10-13 06:08:48 ncopa: I don't have permissions to add new file under /archive/vault on dev.a.o 2015-10-13 06:11:49 morning 2015-10-13 06:11:58 barthalion: try now 2015-10-13 06:12:25 works, thanks 2015-10-13 10:18:26 hi 2015-10-13 10:19:54 someone have idee what could here be wrong http://sprunge.us/NZeF something with: in /usr/include/fortify/string.h 2015-10-13 10:53:03 stateless, ^^ 2015-10-13 10:53:14 seems memcpy is called with src=0 and n=0 2015-10-13 11:01:23 yes that's invalid 2015-10-13 11:01:29 even if len is 0 2015-10-13 11:04:00 now i dont have right binnary for this coredump, which is weird, even i do upgrade from package i always leave binnary files, now on every of it i get: warning: core file may not match specified executable file. 2015-10-13 11:08:37 I can't reproduce the crash however 2015-10-13 11:08:50 on sth like memcpy(buf, NULL, 0) with fortify 2015-10-13 11:09:00 not sure why it segfaults in your case 2015-10-13 11:16:23 why is the file mode for (almost) all directory in /sys set to 700? Which package is responsible for /sys permissions? 2015-10-13 11:22:07 nmeum: i think its grsecurity that does that 2015-10-13 11:22:21 and i think there is a boot option to disable that 2015-10-13 12:21:59 ncopa: do you know the name of that boot option? 2015-10-13 12:30:34 found it: GRKERNSEC_SYSFS_RESTRICT but it seems to be a kernel compile-time option 2015-10-13 13:05:41 + grsec_sysfs_restrict= Format: 0 | 1 2015-10-13 13:05:41 + Default: 1 2015-10-13 13:05:41 + Disables GRKERNSEC_SYSFS_RESTRICT if enabled in config 2015-10-13 13:05:41 + 2015-10-13 13:05:43 so 2015-10-13 13:05:53 grsec_sysfs_restrict=0 2015-10-13 13:57:50 stateless i dont know either, its not me that did wrote that code, i am just using it. 2015-10-13 13:58:53 where can I report a bug in alpine's tools at? 2015-10-13 13:59:01 there's a minor bug with apk search that I need to file or see if ti's been file 2015-10-13 13:59:02 d 2015-10-13 13:59:04 *it's 2015-10-13 13:59:22 found it nvm 2015-10-13 14:19:44 http://bugs.alpinelinux.org/projects/alpine/issues 2015-10-13 14:59:12 ncopa: thanks where is this excerpt from though? 2015-10-13 14:59:45 the patch 2015-10-13 14:59:50 the grsecurity patch 2015-10-13 15:00:14 it is from the make menuconfig help text 2015-10-13 15:00:31 we should probably have a wiki page on it 2015-10-13 15:02:00 yeah 2015-10-13 15:02:08 we should have more documentation in general 2015-10-13 15:02:18 I was thinking about writing man pages for abuild and apk-tools 2015-10-13 18:54:15 barthalion: I can work around it, not that big of an issue 2015-10-13 18:54:26 I won't complain if it gets implemented though :) 2015-10-13 19:01:05 btw I noticed that patches sent to the alpine-devel list do not show up on the patchwork 2015-10-13 19:01:30 is that list still used for patches that are not aport related? 2015-10-13 20:07:30 yes, it is 2015-10-13 20:07:37 but we don't have patchwork for it 2015-10-13 20:07:44 ncopa, clandmeter: any idea why? 2015-10-13 20:19:49 ncopa: do you guys have a fix for lvm2-2.02.116? it introduced mallinfo() which is not available on musl. its in lib/mm/memlock.c and i can revert to the old code form 2.02.110 but i'm wondering if you guys have a better fix 2015-10-13 23:43:04 "main/nodejs: security upgrade to 4.1.2 (CVE-2015-7384) 2015-10-13 23:43:05 fixes #4750" 2015-10-13 23:43:14 huh 2015-10-13 23:43:17 not .2.1? 2015-10-14 06:06:39 blueness_: yes we have fix for lvm2 mallinfo 2015-10-14 06:06:52 basically, its just to disable that 2015-10-14 06:06:54 all of it 2015-10-14 06:07:17 and possibly use mlockall by default for musl 2015-10-14 07:06:21 morning 2015-10-14 07:11:57 ammunta: try #4750 now 2015-10-14 07:12:09 i closed it and moved it to public 2015-10-14 07:24:09 ncopa, "dbus-uuidgen --ensure" in dbus post-install fails during tmpfs boot 2015-10-14 07:24:17 reason is "Could not open /dev/urandom" 2015-10-14 07:24:56 thanks dbus 2015-10-14 07:25:22 maybe we should try implement dbus in the kernel? :) 2015-10-14 07:25:31 seriously 2015-10-14 07:25:38 hm 2015-10-14 07:25:58 i can see 2 options 2015-10-14 07:25:59 1) 2015-10-14 07:26:11 mount move /dev from initramfs 2015-10-14 07:26:21 (or cp -a) 2015-10-14 07:26:30 2) 2015-10-14 07:26:50 in dbus post-install do: 2015-10-14 07:27:06 if ! [ -e /dev/urandom ]; then mknod .... ; fi 2015-10-14 07:27:12 ncopa, since mount --move is done after apk has run 2015-10-14 07:27:28 hum 2015-10-14 07:27:28 i'd suggest bind mounting /dev for the duration of apk run 2015-10-14 07:27:33 that way it's consistent 2015-10-14 07:27:38 better 2015-10-14 07:27:42 yeah 2015-10-14 07:27:47 definitively better 2015-10-14 07:28:02 oh 2015-10-14 07:28:04 other option 2015-10-14 07:28:28 run dbus-uuidgen --ensure from init.d script 2015-10-14 07:28:32 if needed 2015-10-14 07:28:37 it slows boot up 2015-10-14 07:28:40 but would be ok too 2015-10-14 07:28:45 well 2015-10-14 07:28:55 what if system dbus is not run -- only session 2015-10-14 07:29:07 and other post-install can need /dev/* too 2015-10-14 07:29:12 true 2015-10-14 07:29:24 i think /proc is needed too 2015-10-14 07:29:29 mount --bind /dev and /proc 2015-10-14 07:29:32 yes 2015-10-14 07:29:38 and possibly /sys too 2015-10-14 07:29:55 yeah 2015-10-14 07:30:39 should i look at that? 2015-10-14 07:32:14 apk is telling me "RROR: coreutils-doc-8.24-r0: trying to overwrite usr/share/man/man1/groups.1.gz owned by shadow-doc-4.2.1-r3" 2015-10-14 07:33:26 could we perhaps modify shadow-doc to go in man2? (i'm not sure about the manX structure, i never looked into it) 2015-10-14 07:42:09 which package provides the 'groups' command? 2015-10-14 08:14:13 coreutils 2015-10-14 08:15:40 shadow has a manpage for groups, but no groups command 2015-10-14 08:46:47 so shadow should remove that man page 2015-10-14 09:20:48 there is a patch for that, no? 2015-10-14 09:21:02 no, it was for something else 2015-10-14 09:21:05 nvm 2015-10-14 09:35:35 ncopa: or move the groups manpage in shadow-doc to a different install path? 2015-10-14 09:39:41 just delete it? 2015-10-14 09:39:56 if shadow does not have and groups command, then why ship manpage? 2015-10-14 10:21:08 ncopa: why do you need to run a dbus command before mounting /dev ? 2015-10-14 11:08:51 skarnet: ncopa, "dbus-uuidgen --ensure" in dbus post-install fails during tmpfs boot 2015-10-14 11:09:01 but we have that under control 2015-10-14 11:09:03 mount --bind 2015-10-14 11:09:26 yes, bind mount fixes it 2015-10-14 11:09:29 need to push it 2015-10-14 11:12:32 that doesn't answer my question, why does dbus-uuidgen need to be called before /dev is available? 2015-10-14 11:14:10 skarnet, it's the way tmpfs install works. during initramfs, apk is used to install all .apks to new root tmpfs 2015-10-14 11:14:26 including running their post install script inside chroot 2015-10-14 11:16:04 oh, and the chroot doesn't have a /dev by default. 2015-10-14 11:16:12 Then yes, mount --bind is the right fix, I guess. 2015-10-14 13:52:05 nmeum, i fixed valgrind after your upgrade breaking the musl patch 2015-10-14 14:35:35 fabled: huh? what was broken? 2015-10-14 17:19:06 nmeum, you got the __GLIBC__ test inverted, see http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/commit/main/valgrind?id=2457694cbc9dc8141976d822fb43ae6770d955cd 2015-10-14 17:20:49 ah shit, sorry didn't notice this during testing… 2015-10-14 17:23:00 it compiled, but trying to valgrind anything would fail 2015-10-14 17:23:13 the preload lib would have reference to unresolveable symbol 2015-10-14 17:34:10 it doesn't fail here even without that patch 2015-10-14 17:34:25 anyways: I will be more careful with packages updates in the future 2015-10-14 21:12:35 I want to package GHC for alpine, the thing about GHC is that bootstraping is rather complicated. Other linux distribution use the "official" GHC binary to bootstrap GHC, however, there are no binaries available for musl thus I have to cross compile GHC for musl from a libc based system, what's the best way to do that in a way in can be used in an APKBUILD? 2015-10-14 21:13:00 s/libc/glibc/ 2015-10-14 21:13:03 there was a guy working on that already 2015-10-14 21:13:13 not sure if you have logs from that time 2015-10-14 21:13:19 kaniini may remember the details 2015-10-14 21:13:27 yeah, I found that as welll 2015-10-14 21:13:29 he uses a Dockerfile 2015-10-14 21:13:37 and that Dockerfile is pretty messy 2015-10-14 21:13:51 https://github.com/mitchty/alpine-linux-ghc-bootstrap 2015-10-15 07:34:19 who provides locale.h ? 2015-10-15 07:34:45 umh musl has 2015-10-15 08:46:21 morning 2015-10-15 13:17:27 . 2015-10-15 13:17:37 . yourself 2015-10-15 13:17:50 sorry, just testing weechat 2015-10-15 13:17:54 :) 2015-10-15 13:18:37 i kinda like it, but the apk pulls in perl and python, which i don't want 2015-10-15 13:19:11 still liking irssi 2015-10-15 13:19:15 WeeJack: before it didn't pull them in but it just didn't start up, I think 2015-10-15 13:23:05 here comes ncureses6 2015-10-15 13:23:41 we should rebuild everything that is linked against ncurses 2015-10-15 13:23:58 hey friends, hiawatha 9.15 just got released 2015-10-15 13:24:12 the build works fine, a simle version number bumb works 2015-10-15 13:52:16 ammunta: it looks like that's been fixed in edge and will make it to 3.4 2015-10-15 14:02:35 ncopa: you can build ncurses6 with ABI 5 2015-10-15 14:02:44 barthalion: i know 2015-10-15 14:02:48 but i dont want 2015-10-15 14:03:07 want move to ncurses 6 abi 2015-10-15 14:03:16 but dont want do it in one git push 2015-10-15 14:03:30 well, why not build ncurses5 pkg from ncurses6 tarball? 2015-10-15 14:03:45 there are almost no build failures, and I've done that already in Arch 2015-10-15 14:03:49 i was lazy 2015-10-15 14:03:57 so we probably have all patches 2015-10-15 14:04:06 now its just to rebuild the stuff... 2015-10-15 14:05:55 I'm reading the release notes and see nothing that justifies an ABI change 2015-10-15 14:07:19 oh, yes, the extension to cchar_t, and the 5th mouse button. Wheee, let's break ABI compatibility to support 5-button mice! 2015-10-15 14:08:19 if at least they *finally* offered a way to asynchronously wait for a keypress on a fd... but no, of course 2015-10-15 15:08:35 if you get problem with ncurses then it probably will help with apk upgrade -U -a 2015-10-16 12:24:20 scadu: uwsgi doesn't build 2015-10-16 12:24:29 can't find -lintl for python3 plugin 2015-10-16 12:24:52 ncopa: is it possible to move a package from main to testing? we shouldn't pretend that py3 is supported 2015-10-16 12:28:28 barthalion: successfully built on x86_64 2015-10-16 12:40:49 it doesn't for x86 2015-10-16 12:40:55 but apparently unrelated to your upgrade 2015-10-16 12:41:59 yep. just checked on x86 container. 2015-10-16 13:05:01 patchwork is almost clean, I won't touch redmine 2015-10-16 14:52:06 emacs-xorg is the gui for emacs packaged separately? it doesn't work though, $apk add emacs-xorg@testing gives "ERROR: unsatisfiable constraints: so: libgnutls.so.28 (missing):" 2015-10-16 14:52:59 apk info -L gnutls > libgnutls.so.30 2015-10-16 14:55:22 would someone be kind enought to kick a rebuild of emacs-xorg against the updated gnutls libs? 2015-10-16 15:12:23 ScrumpyJack: done 2015-10-16 15:13:09 thanks clandmeter 2015-10-16 15:14:29 wait... its not done, its pushed. 2015-10-16 15:14:51 http://build.alpinelinux.org/ 2015-10-16 15:15:16 after it will have to sync to our mirrors 2015-10-16 15:16:23 myztic_wbcht: ^ 2015-10-16 15:16:45 now its done :) 2015-10-16 15:17:03 ah, well my build box finished too 2015-10-16 15:17:40 mirror synced 2015-10-16 15:17:57 ouch! 2015-10-16 15:19:07 libcurses upgrade *gulp* 2015-10-16 15:54:54 :D 2015-10-16 15:57:29 I don't understand why emacs 24.5 isn't in stable 2015-10-16 15:57:35 it's the current stable version 2015-10-16 15:57:46 I am just compiling it manually 2015-10-16 15:58:55 I really have to learn how to create packages for alpine linux and how to be the maintainer ;) 2015-10-17 00:46:58 https://github.com/xynopsis/update_ca_cert/blob/master/update-ca.c was this really a good choice of replacement implementation 2015-10-17 00:47:11 frankly I'm not sure it couldn't just be a shell script 2015-10-17 00:52:03 we should also probably either have ca-certificates.crt in a different location or have c_rehash not complain about it 2015-10-17 02:43:29 hm are the luas 5.* different enough to care what version I get 2015-10-18 08:58:56 wtf is this shit? http://sprunge.us/eEAC 2015-10-18 10:04:54 no idea 2015-10-18 10:05:06 sssssnake? 2015-10-18 10:06:04 the tarball is broken somehow, compiled the aport myself 2015-10-18 10:08:23 check 2.6.1-1 2015-10-18 10:08:45 I'll test it after I get back home 2015-10-18 10:14:38 nmeum: seems fine now 2015-10-18 10:15:32 great 2015-10-18 11:08:42 hey there, so I was wondering: why would apk "mask in cache"? 2015-10-18 11:09:02 is there some secret debug mode (other than -vv, which isn't printing anything for me) that can make it tell me more? 2015-10-18 12:36:51 also, was wondering about apk's version pinning, is it possible to pin a 'range'? 2015-10-18 12:37:17 let's say I have python3 installed, so I want 3.5, not 3.4 or 3.6, but if 3.5.1 comes out I want it 2015-10-18 12:37:37 I was looking around the source but I didn't see any way to do a range 2015-10-18 12:38:00 is it possible? if not, if I could get it working would a patch adding it be welcome? 2015-10-18 15:15:58 http://foxkit.us/linux/0001-package-fix-comment.patch found a tiny comment error 2015-10-18 15:22:55 hi 2015-10-18 15:40:39 I have a question about apk-tools 2015-10-18 15:40:53 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/apk-tools/tree/src/blob.c#n42 2015-10-18 15:40:56 why um 2015-10-18 15:40:57 why special cased for x86? 2015-10-18 15:46:39 i'm not sure 2015-10-18 16:00:31 awilfox: please report it on bug tracker, looks like useful feature especially for edge users 2015-10-18 16:01:09 Bureaucat: try to catch fabled tomorrow, he should know 2015-10-18 16:02:07 okay 2015-10-18 16:02:19 I will do some testing with the patch I have now and see how it goes 2015-10-18 17:47:38 Bureaucat: ask fabled when he is around 2015-10-18 17:48:04 k 2015-10-18 18:01:25 hey, does it take time for mail archive to update on web? or is it because of hotmail? 2015-10-18 18:01:35 just now submitted new aport patch 2015-10-18 18:01:50 ^i mean 3-4mins back 2015-10-18 18:02:48 ysh: is it this one? http://patchwork.alpinelinux.org/patch/731/ 2015-10-18 18:02:49 ok i can see it now 2015-10-18 18:03:25 yes that one 2015-10-18 18:04:08 what to do when some package as multiple license ? 2015-10-18 18:04:22 for example Rust-lang has MIT & ASL2 2015-10-18 18:09:15 you can just list multiple entries in the license field of the APKBUILD if that is what you are asking 2015-10-18 18:11:08 @chris thanks :) 2015-10-18 19:57:03 does alsamixer segfault for anyone else since the ncurses 6.0 rebuild? 2015-10-18 19:57:47 :D 2015-10-18 20:22:19 kaniini: is this a yes or no? 2015-10-18 20:22:23 *a no 2015-10-18 20:23:12 did you do a proper upgrade ? 2015-10-18 20:24:48 of cause 2015-10-18 20:25:05 just tell me if you can reproduce this 2015-10-19 07:38:05 nmeum: alsamixer segfault here too 2015-10-19 07:38:54 https://www.litespeedtech.com/http2-ready , has implemented http/2 2015-10-19 07:41:23 clandmeter: can this be enabled - http://www.sqlite.org/compile.html#enable_json1 , seems nice and useful 2015-10-19 08:51:14 Good morning happy people 2015-10-19 08:51:39 17:22:55 hi 2015-10-19 08:51:41 17:40:39 I have a question about apk-tools 2015-10-19 08:51:43 17:40:53 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/apk-tools/tree/src/blob.c#n42 2015-10-19 08:51:45 17:40:56 why um 2015-10-19 08:51:47 17:40:57 why special cased for x86? 2015-10-19 08:51:49 fabled: ↑ 2015-10-19 08:51:56 is there any way to clarify that package a can't be installed while package b is installed? 2015-10-19 08:52:08 nmeum: you mean a conflict? 2015-10-19 08:52:15 depends='!bar' 2015-10-19 08:52:21 ah, thanks 2015-10-19 08:52:35 we used to have conflicts= but it was broken, nobody used it so it's been removed 2015-10-19 08:56:00 fabled: and another question below: 2015-10-19 08:56:02 13:08:42 hey there, so I was wondering: why would apk "mask in cache"? 2015-10-19 08:56:04 13:09:02 is there some secret debug mode (other than -vv, which isn't printing anything for me) that can make it tell me more? 2015-10-19 08:56:06 14:36:51 also, was wondering about apk's version pinning, is it possible to pin a 'range'? 2015-10-19 08:56:08 14:37:17 let's say I have python3 installed, so I want 3.5, not 3.4 or 3.6, but if 3.5.1 comes out I want it 2015-10-19 08:56:10 14:37:37 I was looking around the source but I didn't see any way to do a range 2015-10-19 08:56:12 14:38:00 is it possible? if not, if I could get it working would a patch adding it be welcome? 2015-10-19 08:56:14 17:15:58 http://foxkit.us/linux/0001-package-fix-comment.patch found a tiny comment error 2015-10-19 08:58:10 barthalion, Bureaucat : i have the curse of knowing x86 assembly, and it worked faster. it's not necessary. 2015-10-19 08:58:43 barthalion, awilfox : you can "apk add python3<3.6" 2015-10-19 08:58:53 and that constraint is remembered 2015-10-19 09:03:40 is it really worth it to make that code more complicated by using x86 assembler in order to make it a bit faster? 2015-10-19 09:22:43 I think I read somewhere why the mailx package didn't contain mailx, but i can't remember why. 2015-10-19 09:22:49 can someone remind me? 2015-10-19 09:23:15 i dont remember why it does not contain the mailx 2015-10-19 09:23:26 If I'm just making up memories, perhaps mailx could be renamed to mail 2015-10-19 09:23:35 but i remember talk about replace the /usr/bin/mail implementation 2015-10-19 09:23:40 i think its in the archives 2015-10-19 09:23:45 mailing list archives 2015-10-19 09:24:17 i looked in my archives but couldn't find anything. I'll look again 2015-10-19 09:24:33 (was it about mailx being unmaintained?) 2015-10-19 09:24:44 probably 2015-10-19 09:26:21 ncopa: while you're here, there is more noise about the standard/mini iso topic. what are your thoughts on that? 2015-10-19 09:26:50 i think he has a point 2015-10-19 09:26:59 what i have been thinking is 2015-10-19 09:27:07 the bigger iso, with the extra packages 2015-10-19 09:27:20 are normally only needed when you have a 'live' install 2015-10-19 09:27:23 or diskless 2015-10-19 09:27:49 the mini image is probably the most commonly needed image 2015-10-19 09:27:58 (i'm glad. there was some initial chat back in july and I didn't get far. i guess folks were on hols) 2015-10-19 09:28:13 +1 ncopa 2015-10-19 09:28:33 but standard isn't a "live" install 2015-10-19 09:28:35 i am not 100% sure how to rename the images 2015-10-19 09:29:09 you mean an install without access to a repo? 2015-10-19 09:29:20 alpine-mini -> alpine, alpine -> alpine-live 2015-10-19 09:29:23 remote repo? 2015-10-19 09:29:26 yes 2015-10-19 09:29:33 or possible, alpine-offline 2015-10-19 09:30:11 in that case, i'd add more packages to the CD, and bring it up to the 700Mb mark 2015-10-19 09:30:26 alpine-huge 2015-10-19 09:30:36 alpine-norepo 2015-10-19 09:31:37 thats an option too 2015-10-19 09:32:32 but all iso are bootable+live 2015-10-19 09:32:54 i think alpine-live is confusing, as the term live is used to mean as Distro "installed" onto a CD that you can boot into a desktop to get an idea of what it looks like before installing to disk etc 2015-10-19 09:33:08 yeah 2015-10-19 09:33:17 alpine-offlinerepos 2015-10-19 09:33:23 or similar 2015-10-19 09:33:44 alpine-dvd 2015-10-19 09:35:22 look at the downloads page. Where is says Standard, replace with "Huge: Use this iso if you can't access a remote repository." 2015-10-19 09:35:59 alpine-full 2015-10-19 09:36:15 Huge or something else. What i mean it helps to explain what the point of it is :) 2015-10-19 09:36:47 alpine-offline too 2015-10-19 09:37:38 alpine-offline could imply it can't be used online 2015-10-19 09:37:46 i like alpine-full :) 2015-10-19 09:38:41 yeah full transmit the idea 2015-10-19 09:38:53 but its not full 2015-10-19 09:39:01 alpine-more 2015-10-19 09:39:13 if it were full, it would have to be 3.5Gb 2015-10-19 09:39:14 the iso does not have all the packages 2015-10-19 09:39:17 'cause it does not contains all packages 2015-10-19 09:39:18 right 2015-10-19 09:39:43 alpine-extras 2015-10-19 09:39:46 alpine-extended 2015-10-19 09:39:54 alpine-small alpine-medium alpine-full 2015-10-19 09:39:54 how much would it be to just bundle up everything in main 2015-10-19 09:40:19 that would be "full" :&& 2015-10-19 09:40:31 what would be really really cool was if we could reduce the main repo to fit into a 700MB iso 2015-10-19 09:40:48 how much is it currently? 2015-10-19 09:40:56 just move stuff out to community nbd :&& 2015-10-19 09:41:05 yup 2015-10-19 09:42:04 # du -sh x86_64/ 2015-10-19 09:42:04 3.3G x86_64/ 2015-10-19 09:42:08 huh 2015-10-19 09:42:12 that's not actually too bad 2015-10-19 09:42:29 we can probably exclude most of the -doc? 2015-10-19 09:42:42 and -dbg? 2015-10-19 09:43:23 how much of the graphical stuff needs to be main that can't be "yeah those'll be in community" 2015-10-19 09:43:39 there was some thoughts on using xz in apk compression ? what is current, gz ? 2015-10-19 09:43:56 size sorted: http://sprunge.us/KZfY 2015-10-19 09:45:23 ammunta: there are some core stuff like wpa_supplicant, that has subpackage with graphical 2015-10-19 09:45:36 there is a qt client for wpa_supplicant 2015-10-19 09:45:42 which means we need to have qt in main 2015-10-19 09:45:53 or we will have to build the qt client in separate aport 2015-10-19 09:46:35 we can probably move libreoffice to community 2015-10-19 09:47:11 in that case, all desktop stuff should go in community 2015-10-19 09:47:41 all that we possibly can move of desktop stuff should go to community 2015-10-19 09:47:44 but cli does not depend on gui pkgs, but would be too complicated to split same pkgs into community + main 2015-10-19 09:48:01 what /is/ the polycom stuff 2015-10-19 09:48:03 "Desktop stuff" defined as being what one thinks of being associated with desktop applications 2015-10-19 09:48:16 ammunta: yeah, i wondered that 2015-10-19 09:48:30 i think its firmware for polycom phones 2015-10-19 09:48:50 ... ... does it need to be in main 2015-10-19 09:49:02 good question 2015-10-19 09:49:08 i think it does 2015-10-19 09:49:18 i think this needs long time support 2015-10-19 09:49:37 apk info acf-provisioning-polycom4 fails 2015-10-19 09:49:54 openjdk7 though 2015-10-19 09:50:01 i want move openjdk7 to community 2015-10-19 09:50:03 what about libreoffice 2015-10-19 09:50:07 that 2015-10-19 09:50:08 seems 2015-10-19 09:50:46 i wonder what size we get to if we exclude -doc and -dbg 2015-10-19 09:50:58 not much less 2015-10-19 09:51:18 10% savings or so 2015-10-19 09:51:30 http://sprunge.us/KUUK 2015-10-19 09:51:56 what does apk search polycom say to anyone? 2015-10-19 09:52:06 acf-provisioning-polycom4 ? 2015-10-19 09:52:12 acf-provisioning-polycom-5.3.1-r0 2015-10-19 09:52:28 why am i still seeing acf-provisioning-polycom4? it's not in any repo 2015-10-19 09:52:28 13340 webkitgtk-2.4.9-r0.apk 2015-10-19 09:52:28 13344 webkitgtk2-2.4.9-r0.apk 2015-10-19 09:52:42 i want move webkitgtk 2015-10-19 09:52:44 to community 2015-10-19 09:52:56 drupal, owncloud , i.e webapp that does not require compiling 2015-10-19 09:53:03 there's also the three luas, although those don't take that much space I think 2015-10-19 09:53:18 old lua is hard to get rid of 2015-10-19 09:53:18 I'm not sure why we have three luas 2015-10-19 09:53:30 luajit only supports lua 5.1 2015-10-19 09:53:37 ah 2015-10-19 09:53:39 so we need lua5.1 modules 2015-10-19 09:53:40 what about 5.2 2015-10-19 09:54:01 i suppose there are stuff that is not yet ported to lua5.3 2015-10-19 09:54:09 but that should not be that hard 2015-10-19 09:54:17 lua is not that big 2015-10-19 09:54:28 it's not, it's just kind of confusing 2015-10-19 09:54:29 why doesn't the major change if versions are not backwards-compatible >.> 2015-10-19 09:54:48 skarnet: that is a major pain indeed 2015-10-19 09:54:49 5.3 should be able to interpret 5.1 programs, else it should not be called 5.* 2015-10-19 09:55:03 they are mostly 2015-10-19 09:55:05 and i agree 2015-10-19 09:55:19 i think they should do lua 5, lua 6, lua 7 2015-10-19 09:55:23 for incompat changes 2015-10-19 09:55:52 so if there is no desktop stuff in main, there will be no desktop stuff in alpine-huge/full/no-repo 2015-10-19 09:56:37 lets move the easy stuff to community 2015-10-19 09:56:44 like libreoffice (and deps) 2015-10-19 09:56:48 and mate desktop 2015-10-19 09:56:54 time to build a desktop distro of alpine then :) 2015-10-19 09:57:02 i dont mind keep xfce in main 2015-10-19 09:57:23 xfce is not that big and slow moving 2015-10-19 09:57:29 but i'm ok to move it to community too 2015-10-19 09:57:33 you can't keep xfce in main if you are removing all other window managers, that's bias ;) 2015-10-19 09:57:49 that's called a default 2015-10-19 09:58:15 the main reason for moving stuff to community is to reduce maintenance work 2015-10-19 09:58:22 skarnet: that's called making a choice for others :) 2015-10-19 09:58:38 ok i'm going for lunch 2015-10-19 09:59:06 ScrumpyJack: a distribution is about policy, so I don't find that shocking, as long as other choices are available 2015-10-19 09:59:10 but i think its time to drop the bomb 2015-10-19 09:59:16 i have big news 2015-10-19 09:59:28 i have lost my sponsor 2015-10-19 09:59:35 which means i am unemployed now 2015-10-19 09:59:44 which means i need to find a job 2015-10-19 09:59:51 I'll have questions for you after lunch 2015-10-19 10:00:13 ncopa: that is not good :( 2015-10-19 10:00:13 which means my time spent on alpine will probably be significantly reduced 2015-10-19 10:00:30 ScrumpyJack: correct. not good :-/ 2015-10-19 10:01:11 so might be i'll have to move main/* to community/ 2015-10-19 10:01:26 are you the only main/tainer? 2015-10-19 10:01:59 no, but i'm doing the majority there 2015-10-19 10:02:17 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/stats/?period=y&ofs=10 2015-10-19 10:02:37 I see. 2015-10-19 10:02:41 ok i'm going for lunch 2015-10-19 10:22:30 ncopa: uh, it's shitty situation then 2015-10-19 10:22:43 sorry to hear that 2015-10-19 10:30:02 I'm a bit amused that we package miniperl 2015-10-19 10:30:36 kind of appreciate it actually, but 2015-10-19 10:30:47 it's an odd thing to hav 2015-10-19 10:31:25 it's basically a build intermediate, isn't it? 2015-10-19 10:31:53 ncopa: shit, that sucks 2015-10-19 11:03:45 i will likely continue with alpine but probably not as much as before 2015-10-19 12:16:07 what about the 3.3 release? Will you continue working on that? 2015-10-19 12:27:45 i am trying 2015-10-19 12:28:03 will probably be able to make v3.3 2015-10-19 12:28:16 but it might be a bit late 2015-10-19 12:36:03 ncopa: you will be sorely missed (even if you're not completely gone) 2015-10-19 12:37:26 too early to say how much i'll be gone 2015-10-19 12:42:04 anyone out there with a company using Alpine Linux - offer ncopa a job! 2015-10-19 12:42:07 :D 2015-10-19 12:42:19 actually 2015-10-19 12:42:42 if a company wants me, time is now to speak up 2015-10-19 12:47:42 does that mean you have offers? 2015-10-19 12:47:47 that's good 2015-10-19 12:48:36 my one-man contracting shop won't be of much help :) 2015-10-19 12:54:21 also, i suppose you'd want an offer in The Netherlands 2015-10-19 12:54:36 hi 2015-10-19 13:01:52 or on sideby could start a security company around AL 2015-10-19 13:02:59 i wouldn't call it a 'security company' 2015-10-19 13:04:22 actually there is a commercial development being built around some parts of alpine (but not aports) and some other things 2015-10-19 13:07:00 aha, that confirms my 'conspiracy theory', original AL getting commercialized, wonder who the sponsors are ! 2015-10-19 13:07:14 it's not AL at all, just some parts of it 2015-10-19 13:07:42 i believe they are using gentoo + overlays for the packages with a modified version of portage to emit APKs 2015-10-19 13:07:48 but it's very early 2015-10-19 13:08:03 wat, commercialized 2015-10-19 13:08:29 it's literally your 'conspiracy theory' 2015-10-19 13:08:53 there are other commercial developments surrounding alpine too 2015-10-19 13:09:14 well, yeah, but there is no conspiracy going on 2015-10-19 13:09:24 business as usual 2015-10-19 13:09:30 indeed 2015-10-19 13:09:45 what i was saying is, ncopa should start a commercial interest of his own 2015-10-19 13:09:52 yeah 2015-10-19 13:10:07 hmm, sounds better 2015-10-19 13:10:42 some sort of commercially supportable version alpine, for example for embedded developers or some such 2015-10-19 13:10:51 the question is always the same, *who* would pay 2015-10-19 13:11:03 although what i have seen from some people, is a much better stack than what alpine provides for that 2015-10-19 13:11:05 :p 2015-10-19 13:11:25 for selfish reasons I'm also very interested in viable economic models for free software developers :P 2015-10-19 13:12:14 "alpine for embedded developers" sounds awesome, technically speaking, but would there be enough of a paying audience? 2015-10-19 13:12:58 i think a more viable business if alpine is the core product would be something built around docker/containerization/etc. 2015-10-19 13:13:53 but i am pretty sure andyshinn is already doing that 2015-10-19 13:13:55 :p 2015-10-19 13:14:04 Indeed. What would be sold? service? maintenance contracts? 2015-10-19 13:14:39 dunno 2015-10-19 13:17:10 but i would argue there is plenty of commercial interest in alpine-related consulting from the main guy who made it from day 1 2015-10-19 13:20:01 however, with the acquisition of rPath by SAS and subsequent shutdown of rPath/rBuilder by SAS, there is a large space that could be filled using alpine 2015-10-19 13:20:37 it was charting at 42 at distrowatch.com sometime back, now at 57, I guess its because of upheaval in grsec, ncopa cash on it ! (ofcourse in opensource way) 2015-10-19 13:21:06 i think some realistic thought would be required about grsec 2015-10-19 13:21:28 the reality is, grsec isn't the core product and doesn't really matter anywhere nearly as much as the grsec people would like you to believe 2015-10-19 13:22:02 customers don't want to hear that 2015-10-19 13:22:12 they want to hear "our stuff is secure" 2015-10-19 13:22:22 and lots of buzzwords 2015-10-19 13:22:24 alpine-vanilla is just as secure as alpine-grsec to be honest 2015-10-19 13:22:30 oh, I totally agree 2015-10-19 13:22:37 but we're talking monetization here 2015-10-19 13:22:43 devs at AL have real say/experience on its use, so cannot say much, but agree if an alternate/subset of it is used 2015-10-19 13:23:07 barthalion: oh thanks for rephrasing whilst I was out 2015-10-19 13:23:15 doesn't have to depend on it entirely 2015-10-19 13:23:37 fabled: well I know x86 asm too, but I don't add it to my code because I don't want others to have to maintain that :p 2015-10-19 13:23:50 but I suppose "just because" is an answer :P 2015-10-19 13:24:13 [04:59:10] but i think its time to drop the bomb 2015-10-19 13:24:15 incidentally i think apk-tools should probably be split into its own organisational unit 2015-10-19 13:24:19 ncopa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lkdqoLt44 :P 2015-10-19 13:24:21 since there's other interested groups 2015-10-19 13:24:22 but no seriously, that sucks 2015-10-19 13:24:56 kaninii: other interested groups? you mean, that would like to use apk outside of AL ? 2015-10-19 13:25:01 skarnet: yes 2015-10-19 13:25:09 skarnet: there are other people using it outside AL 2015-10-19 13:26:09 skarnet: they do not use aports though 2015-10-19 13:26:20 at least, the demo i have seen was from people not using aports :) 2015-10-19 13:26:58 correct 2015-10-19 13:27:26 and they are planning to have a commercial offering 2015-10-19 13:27:34 which is unfortunate because one of the people involved works for me :( 2015-10-19 13:27:45 err i mean i wish them luck :P 2015-10-19 13:28:25 anyway, point is. 2015-10-19 13:28:26 a commercial offering for... apk-tools? 2015-10-19 13:28:38 skarnet: apk-tools is only part of their stack 2015-10-19 13:29:03 skarnet: however, apk-tools has very strong qualities which make it good for what they are doing 2015-10-19 13:29:05 Bureaucat: haha :) 2015-10-19 13:29:18 jeez, I'm tired of companies selling 'stacks' 2015-10-19 13:29:27 I think the focus right now is getting something working but commercial stuff is on the horizon. 2015-10-19 13:29:30 skarnet: their stack is portage + apk-tools + some other stuff 2015-10-19 13:30:02 yeah, yeah, more bloated crap 2015-10-19 13:30:12 except apk-tools of course :P 2015-10-19 13:30:19 skarnet: not exactly; portage is just used to build the packages for the system images 2015-10-19 13:30:32 kaniini: interesting. i did portage + apk-tools in the beginning 2015-10-19 13:30:54 skarnet: they use it in lieu of aports to avoid the problem alpine has where there is basically one or two people maintaining 10000 packages 2015-10-19 13:30:56 ;) 2015-10-19 13:32:24 that is a problem indeed 2015-10-19 13:32:45 a problem that all distros have at some point 2015-10-19 13:32:56 i don't think their product will be like alpine however 2015-10-19 13:33:47 from what i have gathered, the idea is to give customers the tools to build and maintain system images via custom distributions and things like PPAs 2015-10-19 13:34:20 but point is, i think there is demand for an 'officially supported' alpine 2015-10-19 13:34:46 basically, alpine with SLAs 2015-10-19 13:35:00 so if you have a problem, it gets fixed quickly 2015-10-19 13:35:36 what are you talking about, I thought you did *not* have problems with Alpine :P 2015-10-19 13:36:47 but yes, "Alpine with SLAs" sounds good 2015-10-19 14:00:47 if anybody wants to hire an alpine expert or sponsor alpine development, let me know 2015-10-19 14:06:24 gee, now I have to add pls twice to request a feature/new-pkg 2015-10-19 14:06:51 try with "sudo" instead of "pls" 2015-10-19 14:07:01 :) 2015-10-19 14:14:07 ncopa, could you pls(2) do a AL podcast/video-cast and put it somewhere 2015-10-19 14:15:00 hmm.. sudo on ncopa would be his employer ;) 2015-10-19 14:16:33 from now on, we shall never say "my manager" again. We shall say "my sudoer" instead. 2015-10-19 14:16:43 maybe today, so mightbe possible then request roger to add its link in opennebula talk 2015-10-19 14:17:48 vkris: sure, no problem. just bring me my coffe first 2015-10-19 14:17:49 :) 2015-10-19 14:18:14 apk bring coffee to ncopa 2015-10-19 14:18:45 sudo apk bring coffee to ncopa 2015-10-19 14:21:52 sudo apk --redo -o bigcup bring coffee to ncopa 2015-10-19 14:35:04 I could comeup with some questionaires' if you are ready 2015-10-19 16:12:43 kaniini: what are the advantages of apk-tools for their use 2015-10-19 17:34:13 ncopa: how about making stable releases available only for sponsors? :) 2015-10-19 17:34:27 yeah 2015-10-19 17:34:33 can be like grsec 2015-10-19 17:34:35 good model 2015-10-19 17:34:37 :) 2015-10-19 18:25:51 bah 2015-10-19 18:25:57 seems horrible 2015-10-19 18:54:32 I do like that idea 2015-10-19 18:55:20 or if we don't have time to support -stable just deprecate 2015-10-19 18:55:21 it 2015-10-20 06:27:40 apk search i3 shows i3 dependencies, but not i3 itself on v3.3.3 2015-10-20 06:27:47 *v3.2.3 2015-10-20 06:29:22 zenny: dependencies? 2015-10-20 06:29:47 yep, like i3-lock and so on 2015-10-20 06:31:07 # apk search i3 outputs qemu-ppc64abi32-2.4.0.1-r0 i3lock-doc-2.6-r0 dri3proto-1.0-r0 libxcb-1.11-r0 qemu-system-i386-2.4.0.1-r0 i3lock-2.6-r0 qemu-i386-2.4.0.1-r0 2015-10-20 06:31:10 i3wm appears to be in testing 2015-10-20 06:31:14 but no i3 itself. 2015-10-20 06:32:02 I assume that's the same thing because i3 would be kind of a terrible package name 2015-10-20 06:32:08 since the site is i3wm ... 2015-10-20 06:32:39 "What is there in a name?" i3 rocks indeed. 2015-10-20 06:34:36 In the meantime, the lan does not get active (up) despite it is asked to so in /etc/network/interfaces (auto lan \n iface lan inet dhcp) 2015-10-20 06:35:47 It is with openvswitch (followed http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/OpenVSwitch) 2015-10-20 06:40:20 i3wm should be in stable as it is damn rock solid, imho. 2015-10-20 06:41:37 well, nothing is moved to main unless it has been tested 2015-10-20 06:42:02 test i3wm on edge so we will move it 2015-10-20 06:44:23 If I remember it right, i3wm was in 3.2.1 stable right? 2015-10-20 06:48:44 only i3lock is available in v3.2 2015-10-20 07:22:06 ncopa: Maybe I forgot. Apology. 2015-10-20 07:24:10 i3wm needed tweeknig to work when i tried it a while back. namely it would start, but hang. i think it was a problem with dmenu. i didn't take notes :( 2015-10-20 07:25:08 Following http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/OpenVSwitch, the lan bridge(?) does not seem to run at boot time. Have to exectue 'ifconfig lan up' after each boot and restart networking. Is thee a way to make this run at boot time (except adding that to the rc.local)? 2015-10-20 07:35:32 a few ovservations on the wiki artible 2015-10-20 07:35:36 article* 2015-10-20 07:35:59 the ovs services should probably be added to 'boot' runlevel 2015-10-20 07:36:08 rc-update add ovs-modules boot 2015-10-20 07:36:17 rc-update add ovsdb-server boot 2015-10-20 07:36:24 rc-update add ovs-vswitchd boot 2015-10-20 07:37:17 you will probably also need: rc-update add networking boot 2015-10-20 07:37:21 unless you have done so 2015-10-20 07:48:47 Yep, lan bridge got booted with the above, but didn't accept to get an IP from dhcp (iface lan inet dhcp) 2015-10-20 08:59:10 hm 2015-10-20 08:59:17 zenny i think you can do this: 2015-10-20 08:59:25 in /etc/network/interfaces 2015-10-20 08:59:35 iface eth0 inet manual 2015-10-20 08:59:43 ovs-type OVSPort 2015-10-20 08:59:53 ovs-bridge lan 2015-10-20 09:00:01 auto lan 2015-10-20 09:00:13 iface lan inet dhcp 2015-10-20 09:00:28 ovs-type OVSBridge 2015-10-20 09:00:34 ovs-ports eth0 2015-10-20 09:04:06 how did we resolve the eudev NIC rename problem? 2015-10-20 09:09:30 hm 2015-10-20 09:09:43 write_net_rules is no longer there 2015-10-20 09:31:25 i am annoyed of the udev nic names 2015-10-20 09:42:11 hey 2015-10-20 09:43:31 hi 2015-10-20 09:53:57 hmpf 2015-10-20 09:54:14 the mkinitfs broke my laptop 2015-10-20 09:54:23 but in a vm it works 2015-10-20 09:54:37 my lappy is also uefi, so i dont have console in initramfs 2015-10-20 09:54:46 hard to debug whta is actually going on 2015-10-20 10:24:17 ncopa :( no serial cable to other lappy? 2015-10-20 10:30:42 i just got payed a bonus 2015-10-20 10:30:47 and i want to invest it into alpine 2015-10-20 10:31:01 thats why i give out 200€ to the person that packages rustc on alpine 2015-10-20 10:31:05 if someone is interrested 2015-10-20 10:32:44 seriously? 2015-10-20 10:33:25 yes 2015-10-20 10:33:34 200 european euros 2015-10-20 10:34:22 but simply using the staticly linked zip from the website does not count 2015-10-20 10:34:24 ;) 2015-10-20 10:34:29 that would be cheating *g* 2015-10-20 10:35:57 german euro's? 2015-10-20 10:36:17 well, austrian euros but they should be worth the same *g* 2015-10-20 10:36:20 http://wompwompwomp.com/ 2015-10-20 10:36:54 :) 2015-10-20 10:40:52 well…rust takes hours to build 2015-10-20 10:41:12 is it just me or does the rust distribution include a full copy of clang/llvm? 2015-10-20 10:41:24 nmeum: thats because they build in stages 2015-10-20 10:41:34 but thats not the problem 2015-10-20 10:41:43 musl is the problem *g* 2015-10-20 10:42:28 you mean, Rust depends on glibc internals? 2015-10-20 10:43:59 in theory no 2015-10-20 10:44:05 and they are very open to fix that 2015-10-20 10:44:07 but it takes time 2015-10-20 10:44:26 I've heard that one before 2015-10-20 10:45:44 "We're dependent on this thing, but we're open to fix that. ... Except we really need *that* feature, and *that* other one, so if you find a way to replace the thing without it breaking, and without us having to lift a single finger, feel free, we're open to that." 2015-10-20 10:46:12 yeah 2015-10-20 10:47:47 nah, they are really open to it 2015-10-20 10:48:04 they already support musl as a building target for the programm creaeted in rust 2015-10-20 10:48:10 only the compiler has an issue there 2015-10-20 10:48:20 why did they use glibcisms in the first place? 2015-10-20 10:48:21 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/28667 2015-10-20 10:48:38 they did not do it intentionally 2015-10-20 10:48:55 but if you are only used to one thing, you use it because its there without even knowing 2015-10-20 10:48:59 happened to me to 2015-10-20 10:49:33 hm, I belive I just fixed this issue 2015-10-20 10:49:43 ok, that was the wrong question 2015-10-20 10:49:57 the right question was: why are they shipping their own version of llvm? 2015-10-20 10:58:43 wow, that rust code is shitty as hell 2015-10-20 11:08:07 Oh, I got it... 2015-10-20 11:38:58 nmeum: cool 2015-10-20 11:39:14 skarnet: they ship there own version to speed up builds 2015-10-20 11:39:25 but they allow to use the local installed version as well 2015-10-20 11:39:33 and that is want i want in the rustc package in alpine 2015-10-20 11:39:54 to use the already optimized and patched up version of llvm so builds are a lot faster 2015-10-20 11:43:08 nmeum: what part specially do you mean with shitty? 2015-10-20 11:43:12 rustc in general? 2015-10-20 11:43:19 or just the build script? 2015-10-20 11:53:39 firefox 41.0.2 is out 2015-10-20 11:53:44 current version is 41.0.1 2015-10-20 12:05:56 fabled: the kernel's *.bin files needs to be included in the initramfs, right? 2015-10-20 12:06:13 depmods i mean 2015-10-20 12:07:07 hum 2015-10-20 12:11:43 leo-unglaub: wait what's a *g* 2015-10-20 12:13:09 ncopa, yes 2015-10-20 12:13:50 fabled: should not need be copied. mkinitfs does depmod 2015-10-20 12:14:28 correct 2015-10-20 12:14:33 as long as kmod's depmod is used 2015-10-20 12:14:42 so i think the problem is that kmod was not pulled int 2015-10-20 12:19:41 yes 2015-10-20 12:20:00 should probably fix the busybox debmod too 2015-10-20 12:20:04 yes 2015-10-20 12:20:09 seems my patch had issues 2015-10-20 12:20:12 now it boots in qemu 2015-10-20 12:20:27 with kmod's depmod 2015-10-20 12:20:30 and lvm 2015-10-20 13:05:54 leo-unglaub: from skimming over the rustc code, it looks like they implement the rust compiler as a module for llvm, to directly compile rust into an ast without using an intermediary language. Is that correct? 2015-10-20 13:17:06 skarnet: they are not generating c code and then compiling the c code 2015-10-20 13:17:28 they really directly generate the ast 2015-10-20 13:17:44 yes, that's what I gathered from the rustc source 2015-10-20 13:17:54 thanks for the confirmation. 2015-10-20 13:21:19 i am about to push scary mkinitfs change 2015-10-20 13:21:45 it will almost for sure break nfs boot 2015-10-20 13:22:09 but from what i could see, it didnt look like it worked anyway 2015-10-20 13:25:25 i will test root on lvm on mdadm before i push on my work desktop 2015-10-20 13:25:51 it should work 2015-10-20 13:26:15 root on lvm worked in qemu 2015-10-20 13:26:25 cryptsetup should work too 2015-10-20 13:26:29 but i have not really tested that 2015-10-20 13:51:44 skarnet: are you looking into the rustc package? if yes i write you down for the bounty 2015-10-20 13:51:58 if no one else wants to take it on i redeaw my offer 2015-10-20 13:52:21 pay the guy who accomplished it, not someone who promises to :P 2015-10-20 13:53:53 barthalion: yeah, but noit that 3 people start on it and then there is trouble 2015-10-20 14:04:37 who first got his patch merged, wins ;) 2015-10-20 14:06:02 leo-unglaub, what's the bounty? 2015-10-20 14:07:45 leo-unglaub: don't count on me, if I start packaging stuff for Alpine I'll start with something easier than rustc :P 2015-10-20 14:08:43 ah, saw backlog 2015-10-20 16:19:38 ncopa: what's your opinion on my updated wpa_supplicant patch? I splited it into multiple commits as requested by you 2015-10-20 16:25:19 also: can somebody mark %740 as accepted? I merged it into master but it wasn't marked as accepted automatically and I don't have permissions to update patchwork threads 2015-10-20 18:47:26 I have upgraded my nas from 2.7 to 3.2 \o/ 2015-10-20 18:48:22 algitbot: you are my only friend! 2015-10-20 18:49:59 \o/ 2015-10-20 18:52:14 nmeum: done 2015-10-20 18:53:22 qdeyXHmyEe5v: thats for making my less lonely :) 2015-10-20 18:53:31 thanks* 2015-10-20 18:54:08 great job clandmeter :) 2015-10-20 18:55:41 it was a dirty job... 2015-10-20 18:56:03 but somebody had to do it? 2015-10-20 18:58:15 clandmeter: thanks 2015-10-21 01:27:07 does sapk do any kind of package masking 2015-10-21 01:28:30 you can do apk add '!foo' to add a constraint to your world saying you don't want foo 2015-10-21 01:31:32 neat 2015-10-21 06:19:23 Trying to build veejay (https://github.com/c0ntrol/veejay) on alpine stable, but reports "./autogen.sh: line 20: autoreconf: not found". Which packages are necessary to build against musl? 2015-10-21 06:20:02 Or, are there specific changes needed in the source code of the build itself? 2015-10-21 06:26:17 zenny: you need autoconf I think 2015-10-21 06:26:21 probably also automake, given 2015-10-21 06:28:14 and probably also libtool 2015-10-21 08:02:04 \o/ 2015-10-21 08:02:32 the mkinitfs booted my computer 2015-10-21 08:02:38 i think i push it 2015-10-21 08:03:36 I think we should create a metapackage that pulls entire autoconf stack 2015-10-21 08:04:09 i think one of autoconf/automake are usless iwhtout the other 2015-10-21 08:04:16 so we could probably make dep 2015-10-21 08:04:29 automake depends on autoconf iirc 2015-10-21 08:04:35 not sure about libtool 2015-10-21 08:05:08 that way we only need add automake to makedepends 2015-10-21 08:05:16 well, they can be used separately 2015-10-21 08:05:29 i dont think automake works without autoconf 2015-10-21 08:05:57 autoconf works fine without automake though 2015-10-21 08:06:00 automake creates *.in file. right? 2015-10-21 08:06:14 wrong 2015-10-21 08:06:19 it takes am and outputs in 2015-10-21 08:06:24 yes 2015-10-21 08:06:31 so, logically speaking, it works without autoconf 2015-10-21 08:06:40 practically it doesnt i think 2015-10-21 08:06:46 yeah 2015-10-21 08:07:01 i think if you run automake with Makefile.am 2015-10-21 08:07:06 I don't think anyone wants just one anyway… 2015-10-21 08:07:23 it will fail with message : where is autoconf? 2015-10-21 08:08:06 ok 2015-10-21 08:08:12 i will push the scary mkinitfs change 2015-10-21 08:08:21 my desktop boots at least 2015-10-21 08:08:29 and qemu booted with lvm root 2015-10-21 08:08:52 be careful when you upgrade though and have rescue boot media available when you reboot 2015-10-21 08:17:08 ncopa: what good is resque when we dont know how to fix it? :) 2015-10-21 08:24:23 it was more so you can analyze and help me fix :) 2015-10-21 08:28:15 ncopa: sorry I was a bit away. After installing autoconf, automake and libtool, I get an error (configure.ac:22: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_DEFINE and the same error with endings AC_SUBST, AC_LANG_PROGRAM, AC_CACHE_CHECK and AC_LINK_IFELSE). 2015-10-21 08:29:53 not sure 2015-10-21 08:30:03 maybe you need run aclocal first? 2015-10-21 08:33:24 ncopa: running aclocal didn't help, too (it builds very well in debian and ubuntu without hitches, fyi). console output at http://pastebin.com/sG8y1ZB4 2015-10-21 08:35:09 autoconf is messing with something 2015-10-21 08:35:11 i dunno 2015-10-21 08:35:24 what if you dont run aclocal? 2015-10-21 08:35:36 could it be that the -I m4 is wrong? 2015-10-21 08:39:51 I have been compiling with the same in m4 directory in debian and ubuntu without a problem. I just pulled 'git clone https://github.com/c0ntrol/veejay.git' and ran ./autogen.sh inside veejay-server directory as usual. 2015-10-21 08:41:06 algitbot_ :) 2015-10-21 08:43:35 ncopa: could that be something to do with pkg-config? 2015-10-21 08:45:39 yep, that is it 'apk add pkgconfig' howver, I ended up with "configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH" 2015-10-21 08:47:05 hm 2015-10-21 08:47:19 did you install the gcc and toolchain? 2015-10-21 08:47:27 musl-dev 2015-10-21 08:47:32 i think we have a build-base package or similar 2015-10-21 08:47:43 Linux localhost 4.1.10-0-grsec #1-Alpine SMP Wed Oct 21 07:47:07 GMT 2015 x86_64 Linux 2015-10-21 08:47:55 first signs of 4.1.y kernel ^^^ 2015-10-21 08:48:03 :) 2015-10-21 08:49:15 will not have size overflow plugin though 2015-10-21 08:49:25 we never had that enabled 2015-10-21 08:49:38 i think we had for a short period 2015-10-21 08:49:43 oh 2015-10-21 08:49:45 possible 2015-10-21 08:49:51 but got disabled 2015-10-21 08:49:52 iirc, it was more trouble than benefit 2015-10-21 08:50:03 they have probably fixed it up since then 2015-10-21 08:50:04 but 2015-10-21 08:50:15 without access to stable patches 2015-10-21 08:50:30 i can live without it 2015-10-21 08:50:48 i think the most intersting bits are in pax 2015-10-21 08:51:30 some of the grsecurity features are nice too like sysfs and proc restrictions 2015-10-21 09:02:36 what could be here wrong with this "grsec: From XXXX: bruteforce prevention initiated for the next 30 minutes or until service restarted, stalling each fork 30 seconds. Please investigate the crash report for " i applayed this paxflags= -m 2015-10-21 09:05:48 crow: something is restarting a process too fast 2015-10-21 09:05:54 a program is crashing 2015-10-21 09:06:00 and it is restarted 2015-10-21 09:06:01 and crashing 2015-10-21 09:06:02 ncopa i was doing it over webif 2015-10-21 09:06:05 and restart 2015-10-21 09:06:29 so grsec thinks you have evil intentions 2015-10-21 09:06:43 and disable you to restart the process 2015-10-21 09:06:45 for a while 2015-10-21 09:07:00 fix is to make the program not crash 2015-10-21 09:20:10 hmm so many crash i did not see, it was only one, 2015-10-21 09:21:06 crow: is it still oscam you are trying? 2015-10-21 09:21:07 i cant reproduce it. should i disable maybe paxflags like on x86 paxflags="-msp" 2015-10-21 09:21:27 clandmeter well its sometimes not often, but its seems like ncopa wrote on stoping it.. 2015-10-21 09:21:44 i think oscam wants to restart when it crashes 2015-10-21 09:21:45 maybe the threads are not safe and not closed jet 2015-10-21 09:22:32 if oscam tries to restart when crashing, and it crashes on startup 2015-10-21 09:22:40 clandmeter I / we dont have that in out conf.d/oscam the -r something args 2015-10-21 09:22:49 then it will make grsec complain indeed 2015-10-21 09:22:51 ncopa i dont have that argument. 2015-10-21 09:24:35 http://www.streamboard.tv/wiki/OSCam/en/ShellCommands -r : restart level 2015-10-21 09:24:41 we dont have that in conf.d 2015-10-21 09:25:15 1 = restart activated, web interface can restart oscam (default) 2015-10-21 09:25:27 ncopa oh 2015-10-21 09:25:34 set -r 0 2015-10-21 09:25:46 yes ill do thanks for hints 2015-10-21 09:25:49 but this oscam seems to be a segfault magnet :) 2015-10-21 09:26:19 ncopa haha maybe, or maybe its me :D 2015-10-21 09:26:28 i mean 2015-10-21 09:26:36 lol 2015-10-21 09:26:45 what does the developer think when they add such feature? 2015-10-21 09:26:51 "restart when it crashes" 2015-10-21 09:26:55 maybe i provoke it 2015-10-21 09:27:05 why would you need an option like that? 2015-10-21 09:27:22 because it crashes so often :p 2015-10-21 09:27:26 sounds like developer knows it 2015-10-21 09:27:43 ncopa i think its connected with: ) -s, --capture-segfaults | Capture segmentation faults. 2015-10-21 09:27:46 because if you don't have an option to restart when it crashes, you have to use supervision, and nobody wants that! 2015-10-21 09:28:19 how about: fix whatever makes it crash? 2015-10-21 09:28:27 (seriously, yes... instead of adding such an option to software, how about making sure it doesn't crash, hm?) 2015-10-21 09:28:30 if it crashes, tv will stop and wife will complain. anybody wants to prevent that. 2015-10-21 09:28:47 apparently nobody wants make a program that does not crash :) 2015-10-21 09:29:00 clandmeter: yeah.. true 2015-10-21 09:29:03 the wife factor... 2015-10-21 09:29:03 its not how oscam is created 2015-10-21 09:29:18 its just a pile of code tied together 2015-10-21 09:29:29 clandmeter: doesn't the wife complain if the TV hiccups because a program restarts? 2015-10-21 09:29:49 we can say its bad weather :p 2015-10-21 09:30:05 "it's technology, honey" 2015-10-21 09:30:08 probably not as much as if the TV says: "boom. please analyze the core dump and fix the code" 2015-10-21 09:30:26 a blue screen would be prettier 2015-10-21 09:30:39 my wife would probably prefer pink :) 2015-10-21 09:30:59 i would say, sorry honey, pax is so restrictive, our cardreader couldnt restart anymore. please talk to ncopa@alpinelinux.org 2015-10-21 09:31:00 Windows probably has an option to configure that 2015-10-21 09:31:13 skarnet well i think developers wanted these backtrace from user (-s ) but also to be able to enjoy the WAF factor :D 2015-10-21 09:31:42 so 2015-10-21 09:31:52 crow + oscam = segfault magnet 2015-10-21 09:31:54 :) 2015-10-21 09:32:14 i had one crash in multiple years 2015-10-21 09:32:18 so its isnt that bad. 2015-10-21 09:32:25 but i dont use grsec on that box 2015-10-21 09:32:27 ncopa when i do grep on log fore segfault/coredump i see only my name wtf... 2015-10-21 09:32:33 irclog * 2015-10-21 09:33:26 crow: check your RAM, just in case. If you have significantly more segfaults than anyone else, hardware may be an explanation. 2015-10-21 09:33:31 clandmeter: so your box has rootkit and is owned by the chineese gov (or nsa or fsb or them all), you just dont know it 2015-10-21 09:34:03 i work for a taiwanees company. im rooted by default. 2015-10-21 09:34:20 Twice. 2015-10-21 09:34:36 Once by the Chinese, once by the Taiwanese fighting against the Chinese. 2015-10-21 09:34:56 skarnet its an APU4C (but i think i did memtest two pass and was ok) here is ram on board 2015-10-21 09:37:05 http://www.pcengines.ch/apu1c4.htm 2015-10-21 09:39:06 it's too early for mini-PC porn 2015-10-21 09:39:43 I was shown an incredible site yesterday: http://www.mini-box.com/ 2015-10-21 09:39:53 don't go there now, it's addictive 2015-10-21 09:43:39 that looks familiar 2015-10-21 09:43:48 oh 2015-10-21 09:43:51 i have one of those 2015-10-21 09:44:10 :) 2015-10-21 09:44:12 I deny any responsibility for ruining your productivity today 2015-10-21 09:44:12 me 2 2015-10-21 09:44:23 apu is nice 2015-10-21 09:44:54 and mine never segfaults (but doesnt run alpine) 2015-10-21 09:45:02 lol 2015-10-21 09:46:13 i think i have used those mini-box.com boxes with via CPU 2015-10-21 09:47:15 alpinelinux runs fine on apu, 2015-10-21 09:50:15 ok 2015-10-21 09:50:24 i need to get the v3.3 builders up asap 2015-10-21 09:50:39 and need to fix the mkinitfs init and modloop scripts 2015-10-21 09:57:41 does someone run any kind of wiki on alpine? any recomendation, i need something for internal docummentation 2015-10-21 09:57:47 to much of .txt files 2015-10-21 09:58:01 wiki.alpinelinux.org runs on alpine 2015-10-21 09:58:05 mediawiki 2015-10-21 09:58:18 i have seen trac sites on alpine 2015-10-21 09:58:40 i think i once set up a demo box with a handful of wiki engines 2015-10-21 09:58:45 docuwiki 2015-10-21 09:59:23 if you go for mediawiki, then use mariadb instead of postgresql 2015-10-21 09:59:45 crow, i use dokuwiki on alpine 2015-10-21 10:00:30 it has a lot of useful plugin 2015-10-21 10:00:35 *plugins 2015-10-21 10:00:54 backside is that the more plugin you install,the more become bloat 2015-10-21 10:01:03 does not scale well 2015-10-21 10:01:18 if you need something small, it could be worthy a test 2015-10-21 10:03:23 ncopa i now did stop over init.d, waitig 4 min (did changed confd file and added -r0 ) but after start i see this again: http://sprunge.us/BLPD (external connection) 2015-10-21 10:04:29 fcolista also with mariadb? 2015-10-21 10:04:39 no db 2015-10-21 10:04:52 fcolista its just my internal docu, which i write on every f.. .txt files 2015-10-21 10:05:19 so why you want to use db if it is only for you? 2015-10-21 10:05:26 crow: if its only you who write the docs, then i'd consider asciidoc and put the files in git 2015-10-21 10:05:43 brb 2015-10-21 10:06:01 wiki is nice though in that you can fix things while you are using the docs 2015-10-21 10:12:24 fcolista well to have them avaiable from internet when i need them, or to show to friend what he need to do. 2015-10-21 10:14:09 ncopa, skarnet, crow : yes, i run alpine on several apu boxes 2015-10-21 10:16:32 what is the equivalent of libsdl-ttf2.0-dev in alpine. Installed both sdl-dev and sdl_image-dev but didn't satisfy to support " SDL on-screen-logging". 2015-10-21 10:19:05 ncopya, clandmeter: can this be enabled - http://www.sqlite.org/compile.html#enable_json1 , seems nice ? 2015-10-21 10:19:18 sorry ncopa 2015-10-21 10:21:41 crow: try fossil instead of git, for personal use 2015-10-21 10:22:06 1 binary + 1 data-blob ;) 2015-10-21 10:22:18 problem with fossil is that it's all-in-one 2015-10-21 10:22:38 yes, nice for personal use 2015-10-21 10:22:43 I considered it at some point, but I dislike having my backend bundled with a cgi thingy 2015-10-21 10:23:08 vkris but for sharing with someone like to friend please do it like i wrote it there.. 2015-10-21 10:23:54 no, not nice for personal use when you want the minimal stuff. I still prefer several binaries, you can tailor their uses to your needs 2015-10-21 10:24:59 I found fossil easy to build, easy to use, and well-designed except for that "bundles everything" stuff, but that was a show-stopper for me :/ 2015-10-21 10:25:32 I am using it to store rss.xml for a while and seems nice 2015-10-21 10:26:19 almost 30mb now, that produces ~100mb of newsbueter dbs 2015-10-21 10:27:16 does fit for some purposes, though I prefer git mostly 2015-10-21 10:30:23 Could not fins a dev package for libsdl-ttf like libsdl-ttf2.0-dev in debian! sdl-dev and sdl_image-dev were not adequate. Any clue? Thanks! 2015-10-21 10:44:36 is there a dev library of quicktime in alpine? 2015-10-21 10:46:27 ffmpeg? 2015-10-21 10:50:20 ffmpeg-dev didn't satisfy 2015-10-21 10:51:42 is there any sdl_ttf-dev package in alpine? 2015-10-21 11:02:57 though still did not figure out fossil equivalent of `git reset --hard ` 2015-10-21 11:07:58 zenny: sdl2-dev? 2015-10-21 11:10:15 ncopa: cannot fine any package called sdl2-dev 2015-10-21 11:11:22 *find 2015-10-21 11:16:49 what is the dev library for directfb? xfbdev didn't satisfy the compiler's requirement. 2015-10-21 11:18:08 sdl2_ttf is in testing apparently 2015-10-21 11:18:56 will it be a nice idea to mix stable, testing and edge? 2015-10-21 11:20:59 probably not 2015-10-21 11:21:13 edge/main, edge/community + edge/testing 2015-10-21 11:21:30 specically if you are building new stuff 2015-10-21 11:21:36 ok 2015-10-21 11:21:38 sweet 2015-10-21 11:21:43 my laptop booted :) 2015-10-21 11:22:19 I am aware of edge/main and edge/testing. Do you also have edge/community now? 2015-10-21 11:22:28 correct 2015-10-21 11:22:48 there will be v3.3/main and v3.3/community 2015-10-21 11:23:04 where v3.3/community will only be supported til v3.4 is released 2015-10-21 11:25:16 are you referring to http://nl.alpinelinux.org/alpine/edge/main 2015-10-21 11:25:40 yes 2015-10-21 11:25:57 vkris: why dont you send us a patch for sqlite? 2015-10-21 11:26:05 yaba-daba-doo, did we hear v3.4 :-) 2015-10-21 11:26:11 yes 2015-10-21 11:26:12 :) 2015-10-21 11:26:29 clandmeter: ok 2015-10-21 11:27:49 vkris: i can add it, but you request so many things, so makes sence to send patches. (we tend to forget) 2015-10-21 11:27:52 ncopa: warned me "WARNING: Ignoring //nl.alpinelinux.org/alpine/edge/main/x86_64/APKINDEX.tar.gz: No such file or directory WARNING: Ignoring //nl.alpinelinux.org/alpine/edge/testing/x86_64/APKINDEX.tar.gz: No such file or directory" 2015-10-21 11:28:11 vkris: and you have the tools to do so ;-) 2015-10-21 11:28:17 zenny: apk update? 2015-10-21 11:28:45 yep 2015-10-21 11:29:21 is there quicktime-dev library? 2015-10-21 11:29:49 have access to clanmeter~vkrishn box, + my bare-metal 3.1 box 2015-10-21 11:30:11 ;) 2015-10-21 11:31:09 onto clandmeter~vkrishn now ! 2015-10-21 11:32:51 What is missing when the building in alpine linux says "fatal error: execinfo.h: No such file or directory" 2015-10-21 11:33:32 backtrace stuff 2015-10-21 11:33:36 glibc specific 2015-10-21 11:33:55 it is so program can generate a stack dump when it crashes 2015-10-21 11:34:27 without backtrace support you need generate a core dump and use gdb to do backtrace 2015-10-21 11:35:26 zenny: sometimes you can disable backtrace in build time config option 2015-10-21 11:35:32 sometimes we need to patch the code 2015-10-21 11:36:15 grep execinfo.h */*.patch 2015-10-21 12:10:31 clandmeter: http://tpaste.us/AW7v 2015-10-21 12:10:58 vkris: :D 2015-10-21 12:11:22 want me to commit it or will you send it to pw? 2015-10-21 12:12:32 its just to curl | git am 2015-10-21 12:12:38 ok, would send to pw, need to do from my desktop using gmail 2015-10-21 12:12:56 gmail is unfriendly with git send-email 2015-10-21 12:13:02 yes dont use gmail 2015-10-21 12:13:08 gmail "fixes" word wrapping in patches 2015-10-21 12:13:13 you can however use gmail smtp server if you like 2015-10-21 12:14:20 vkris: im just asking, you dont have to send to pw. 2015-10-21 12:14:26 or I can request al email id and set it on clandmeter~vkrishn box 2015-10-21 12:14:48 if i commit it, and later you send it, we have to do manual work in pw. 2015-10-21 12:15:06 ok commit it pls 2015-10-21 12:17:26 vkris: i will first need to clean my tree 2015-10-21 12:17:52 ok 2015-10-21 12:24:24 how can i translate this epoch time to normal time: [1137353.617361] grsec: which is found in dmesg? 2015-10-21 12:24:30 vkris: pushed 2015-10-21 12:24:47 thanks 2015-10-21 12:24:57 found it: date -D 1137353.617361 2015-10-21 13:03:17 well, commit message is clearly wrong 2015-10-21 13:03:25 it's also an update 2015-10-21 13:03:29 clandmeter, vkris 2015-10-21 13:03:48 yeah, figured after send 2015-10-21 13:11:03 barthalion: right. 2015-10-21 13:12:00 barthalion: can you forgive me for this time? im in the middle of getting letsencrypt working... 2015-10-21 13:13:11 version 0.0.0 2015-10-21 13:14:03 its python hell 2015-10-21 13:14:16 well, slap -> + slan <- == hi5 2015-10-21 13:14:54 clandmeter: I heard there's also a Go client for ACME. 2015-10-21 13:15:04 not that Go is especially light, but... 2015-10-21 13:15:53 you Got to be kidding me? 2015-10-21 13:17:18 https://twitter.com/jamespugjones/status/656529474096267264 2015-10-21 13:19:37 skarnet: ill stay in py-hell untill it burns down before ill try to package another go app :) 2015-10-21 13:20:21 what's the problem? It's only 2 GB binaries... 2015-10-21 13:20:53 yes, and the deps are so well organized... 2015-10-21 13:21:07 and so simple to security patch... 2015-10-21 13:21:47 it seems like go ppl didnt think they'd ever need security patch things 2015-10-21 13:21:55 "this is not C so no sec issues" 2015-10-21 13:27:46 sigh... 2015-10-21 13:29:43 pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: pep8>=1.5.7,!=1.6.0,!=1.6.1,!=1.6.2 2015-10-21 13:29:53 lovin it 2015-10-21 13:30:13 I almost feel in ruby land 2015-10-21 13:38:02 ncopa: "grep execinfo.h */*.patch" does produce just "grep: */*.patch: No such file or directory". 2015-10-21 13:40:17 tried to backtrace the make process: "gdb /usr/bin/make" in the root of the source directory. executed "r --g-fatal-warnings" and outputs "/usr/bin/make: unrecognized option '--g-fatal-warnings'". 2015-10-21 13:40:48 zenny: i meant that we have a bunch of patches in aports that fixes similar issue 2015-10-21 13:40:52 hum 2015-10-21 13:40:56 ccache is broke 2015-10-21 13:41:33 does not build kernel 2015-10-21 13:46:08 ncopa, any suggestion how to overcome this bottlneck? 2015-10-21 13:46:49 http://pastebin.com/h4M5peGM 2015-10-21 13:47:14 zenny: can you paste vj-common.c 2015-10-21 13:47:39 you probably need to disable backtrace 2015-10-21 13:52:49 clandmeter: https://github.com/c0ntrol/veejay/blob/master/veejay-current/veejay-server/libvjmsg/vj-common.c 2015-10-21 13:53:19 ncopa: even without backtrace the situation has not changed. 2015-10-21 13:54:10 will xen v4.6 make to v3.3 ? 2015-10-21 13:54:17 oh 2015-10-21 13:54:20 xen 2015-10-21 13:54:22 would be nice 2015-10-21 13:54:38 i am annoyed by ccache 2015-10-21 13:54:38 seems its packed with new features 2015-10-21 13:56:09 zenny: try adding libexecinfo-dev to makedeps 2015-10-21 13:57:32 clandmeter: but is there a package called libexecinfo-dev? 2015-10-21 13:57:45 Could not figure out one ;-) 2015-10-21 13:58:20 in testing i think 2015-10-21 13:59:05 you can also patch out backtrace, if you prefer it. 2015-10-21 14:00:04 I am still in stable. 2015-10-21 14:00:21 we develop stuff in edge 2015-10-21 14:00:36 so we dont get lots of development stuff in stable 2015-10-21 14:01:06 having libunwind already removes some of it. 2015-10-21 14:01:28 but i dont think we have it in aports 2015-10-21 14:02:07 'apk update' warned me "WARNING: Ignoring //nl.alpinelinux.org/alpine/edge/main/x86_64/APKINDEX.tar.gz: No such file or directory WARNING: Ignoring //nl.alpinelinux.org/alpine/edge/testing/x86_64/APKINDEX.tar.gz: No such file or directory" 2015-10-21 14:02:28 how to build libunwind in alpine way? 2015-10-21 14:02:43 i suppose we could provide a stub for execinfo.h which just provides a backtrace() { printf("unsupported"); } inline 2015-10-21 14:02:56 libexecinfo is probably easier 2015-10-21 14:03:15 compared to adding libunwind 2015-10-21 14:10:20 updrading to edge now. 2015-10-21 14:45:58 i think I'll push kernel 4.1.10 now 2015-10-21 14:52:06 4.1.10 kernel is in the oven 2015-10-21 15:02:18 im smelling burned plastic 2015-10-21 15:02:25 ncopa: FYI I had a friend which had issues with 4.1.10 on th rpi2. Something about timers didn't seem right. 2015-10-21 15:02:43 ok 2015-10-21 15:02:58 i know there was one regression in the 4.1.10 release 2015-10-21 15:03:14 will have to keep an ey eon it 2015-10-21 15:03:52 but the good news is that we do have the traditional security enhancement patch 2015-10-21 15:04:10 which we may not say the name of due to trademark issues :) 2015-10-21 15:04:34 unsupported grsecurity port for 4.1.y 2015-10-21 15:08:17 open-vm-tools has moved to github and has 10.0 released 2015-10-21 15:09:11 vkris: does not build 2015-10-21 15:09:13 gotta go 2015-10-21 15:10:45 oh, a kernel upgrade \o/ 2015-10-21 15:12:47 ncopa: did you use the gresecurity testing patches for the kernel upgrade? 2015-10-21 15:13:13 yes 2015-10-21 15:13:40 then open-vm-tools -> to community/ ? 2015-10-21 15:56:15 hey guys 2015-10-21 15:56:23 DO NOT UPGRADE currently 2015-10-21 15:56:29 it will break your system entirely 2015-10-21 15:57:42 ncopa: ping 2015-10-21 15:58:15 \/lib/mdev/usbdisk_link: line 33: readlink not found 2015-10-21 15:58:26 and then the entire boot stops working and you get a kernel panic 2015-10-21 16:01:26 ncopa, linux update to 4.1.x broke iwlwifi 2015-10-21 16:01:29 missing firmware 2015-10-21 16:01:48 [ 2.403304] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: Direct firmware load for iwlwifi-7260-13.ucode failed with error -2 2015-10-21 16:02:40 otherwise looks good 2015-10-21 16:04:09 smells that linux-firmware needs an update 2015-10-21 16:06:01 fabled: the latest update broke the initram 2015-10-21 16:06:14 because it is not asking for my passphrase to decrypt the drives anymore 2015-10-21 16:11:02 Got "vj-font.c:54:23: fatal error: freetype2/ftsnames.h: No such file or directory" now in edge. freetype-dev is installed to the latest. 2015-10-21 16:21:59 just upgraded to 4.1.10. Downgrade path? 2015-10-21 16:31:10 find shows a named file at /usr/include/freetype2/freetype/ftsnames.h, what is missing then? 2015-10-21 16:41:33 a link from freetype2/ftsname.h to freetype2/freetype/ftsnames.h ? 2015-10-21 16:42:16 10 to 1 freetype changed their default include location, and dependencies didn't pick it up. 2015-10-21 16:53:22 skarnet: yep, the symbolic link worked. 2015-10-21 16:57:04 However, make died with http://pastebin.com/Sjk85MQR 2015-10-21 17:00:44 lovely 2015-10-21 17:01:10 the first one is solved with -lpthread 2015-10-21 17:01:24 the others are glibc stuff 2015-10-21 17:02:00 I'll let real maintainers answer that one, this is where my knowledge ends. 2015-10-21 17:38:33 skarnet: -lpthread as a flag or as a pkg? 2015-10-21 18:12:39 what is the equivalent to 'make clean' in alpine? 2015-10-21 18:31:49 zenny: as a flag on the linker command line. 2015-10-21 19:03:13 usually linker commands are done in ld.conf file and thereafter inserted by ldconfig command. How does that differ in alpine? 2015-10-21 19:04:12 no, that's the run-time linker. I'm talking about compile-time. 2015-10-21 20:55:22 git.a.o `git pull` not working 2015-10-21 20:59:57 and dev.a.o seems down 2015-10-21 21:00:14 looks like infra upgrade going on 2015-10-21 21:01:15 seems more like dns, git.a.o still works if your browser is lazy enough with caching 2015-10-21 21:14:51 ok now 2015-10-21 21:15:08 maybe ncopa is doing maintannce to ns1 2015-10-21 21:15:12 ns2 is at my side 2015-10-21 21:15:57 ah! remember saying about setting v3.3 builders 2015-10-21 21:16:48 i hope he doesnt run our ns1 on one of the builders :) 2015-10-21 21:18:28 I think newer working changes to mkinitfs did not get pushed yet 2015-10-21 21:39:42 found it: date -D 1137353.617361 <- actually this does not convert epoc time to human readable (time in dmesg) 2015-10-21 21:40:39 lol 2015-10-21 21:42:07 barthalion well i read somewhere that -D should covert epoch time 2015-10-21 21:43:14 but seems it isnt epoch at all.. 2015-10-22 05:34:26 ncopa, would http://sprunge.us/fiQc be ok? 2015-10-22 05:34:33 i took new snapshot and modified to use 'make install' 2015-10-22 05:34:40 it's quite a bit larger then previous 2015-10-22 05:35:02 120MB vs. 80MB or so 2015-10-22 05:47:13 ncopa, the mkinitfs code prints errors like /lib/mdev/usbdisk_link: line 5: readlink: not found 2015-10-22 05:51:55 ncopa, perhaps nlplug-findfs does not include /usr/bin/ in PATH when calling mdev 2015-10-22 05:52:18 yeah, seems like that 2015-10-22 06:02:31 morning 2015-10-22 06:03:16 aw leo-ungalub 2015-10-22 06:03:27 sorry 2015-10-22 06:03:47 fabled: please push linux-fireware update 2015-10-22 06:04:46 firmware is getting even larger portion of the modules modloop 2015-10-22 06:04:52 heh 2015-10-22 06:05:01 i wonder if it'd make sense to combine things 2015-10-22 06:05:09 how do you mean? 2015-10-22 06:05:13 e.g. on rpi we have rpi1 and rpi2 kernels on the image 2015-10-22 06:05:29 would be nice to have only one modloop with modules for both + firmware 2015-10-22 06:05:41 so i don't need two individual modloop images... of which >50% is same 2015-10-22 06:06:17 du -csh * 2015-10-22 06:06:17 36.6M 4.1.10-1-rpi 2015-10-22 06:06:17 73.9M firmware 2015-10-22 06:06:17 110.5M total 2015-10-22 06:06:33 now it'll be 36.6M + 120MB firmware 2015-10-22 06:06:36 2* 2015-10-22 06:06:44 instead of one modloop of 2*36.6M + 120MB 2015-10-22 06:08:27 also for rpi, i wonder if it's easy to delete firmwares not needed 2015-10-22 06:08:55 or make it the otherway around, have some "--include" list of fw blobs to include 2015-10-22 06:09:39 i would like that yes 2015-10-22 06:09:51 might be we have some modules dislabled so we dont need firware 2015-10-22 06:09:56 yes 2015-10-22 06:10:07 i didnt find any obvious way to do so last time i looked for it 2015-10-22 06:10:13 i think there is no obvious way 2015-10-22 06:10:24 also 2015-10-22 06:10:27 depending on kernel version 2015-10-22 06:10:32 there's unused modules too 2015-10-22 06:10:51 there's sometimes several versions of same device blob -- for different kernel versions 2015-10-22 06:11:00 ugh 2015-10-22 06:11:06 like iwlwifi 2015-10-22 06:11:16 and they are rather large 300kb each or so 2015-10-22 06:11:35 oh 2015-10-22 06:11:40 600-800kB each 2015-10-22 06:12:07 e.g. iwlwifi-7265 has 5 different versions 2015-10-22 06:13:42 that is something we should ask about in kernel ml 2015-10-22 06:13:56 how do we remove unneeded stuff 2015-10-22 06:14:08 or how to include only the stuff actually used by kernel 2015-10-22 06:37:01 how do you feel about git pull requests for aports? 2015-10-22 06:37:13 i mean, its relatively easy to git pull $url 2015-10-22 06:41:59 seems the kernel infrastructure for loading firmwares supports no way to determine what names are used in which config 2015-10-22 06:42:10 it's basically request firmware by name 2015-10-22 06:42:21 and each device driver can construct the firmware the way it wants 2015-10-22 06:42:27 ugh 2015-10-22 06:42:31 many seem to use snprintf and construct it from parts 2015-10-22 06:42:52 should maybe be a part fot he modinfo? 2015-10-22 06:42:59 hm 2015-10-22 06:43:07 not possible if they snprintf 2015-10-22 06:43:33 it means that it cannot be figured out without acutally execute things 2015-10-22 06:45:49 oh wait 2015-10-22 06:45:57 modinfo does give that 2015-10-22 06:46:04 seems they list it separately then maybe 2015-10-22 06:46:24 modinfo does? 2015-10-22 06:46:27 yes 2015-10-22 06:46:27 then there is hope! 2015-10-22 06:46:57 yes 2015-10-22 06:46:59 i wonder what to do with ccache 2015-10-22 06:47:07 there's MODULE_FIRMWARE thing 2015-10-22 06:47:17 apparently gentoo hardened does not have issues building kernel 2015-10-22 06:47:38 ccache 3.2.x will strip -D option 2015-10-22 06:47:53 but that makes each firmware set dependant on kernel build 2015-10-22 06:47:56 which will strip -D_KERNEL_ or what it was 2015-10-22 06:47:59 since .config affects which modules are needed 2015-10-22 06:48:07 and which firmwares they request 2015-10-22 06:48:14 which will make our hardened gcc not disble PIE 2015-10-22 06:48:47 wou could maybe generate a firware list on kernel build? 2015-10-22 06:48:50 and ship with the package 2015-10-22 06:49:07 that'd work with modloops 2015-10-22 06:49:12 but not the generic linux-firmware.apk 2015-10-22 06:49:18 ncopa: you mean github pull requests? 2015-10-22 06:49:26 barthalion: yes 2015-10-22 06:49:49 people have difficulties getting git send-email correct 2015-10-22 06:49:50 sounds fine to me, we already did that before 2 or 3 times 2015-10-22 06:49:57 ncopa, kmod's "modinfo -F firmware " will list the firmwares it needs 2015-10-22 06:50:08 fabled: nice 2015-10-22 06:50:27 that means we could include needed firmware in initramfs too 2015-10-22 06:50:30 ncopa: is there some way to subscribe to new pull requests? 2015-10-22 06:51:25 i suppose i can add you to the alpinelinux organisation 2015-10-22 06:51:38 barthalion: whats your github username? 2015-10-22 06:52:33 barthalion 2015-10-22 06:52:35 :P 2015-10-22 06:53:04 added you 2015-10-22 06:53:06 i mean 2015-10-22 06:53:08 invited you 2015-10-22 06:53:11 cool, thanks 2015-10-22 06:53:41 anyone else need github invitation? 2015-10-22 06:54:43 what, are you planning to actually use pull reqs? 2015-10-22 06:54:55 ammunta: yes, why not? 2015-10-22 06:54:58 its git... 2015-10-22 06:55:05 i can git pull 2015-10-22 06:55:20 even github... :) 2015-10-22 06:55:36 I was actually more surprised intitally that you operated by sending patches around to begin with 2015-10-22 06:55:50 well 2015-10-22 06:56:04 i prefer to not depend on github 2015-10-22 06:56:07 git is often surprising :) 2015-10-22 06:56:08 yes 2015-10-22 06:56:08 it's ok to use it 2015-10-22 06:56:13 fabled: yes 2015-10-22 06:56:15 I mean, since it's git, it's not like 2015-10-22 06:56:18 agree 2015-10-22 06:56:44 i think individual patches are better to comment at via inline in email 2015-10-22 06:56:47 we should not require people signup on gihub/sourceforge/bitbucket/ 2015-10-22 06:56:52 especially if we need to give feed back 2015-10-22 06:56:59 agree 2015-10-22 06:57:04 but if it's someone we know and does good. git pull is a lot easier 2015-10-22 06:57:19 specially if there are more than 5 patches 2015-10-22 06:57:22 in a patchset 2015-10-22 06:57:55 well, there's git am 2015-10-22 06:58:10 was that not working out? 2015-10-22 06:58:19 git am works perfect for me 2015-10-22 06:58:35 but its painful to do git am for 10 individual patches 2015-10-22 06:58:43 nice to do git pull then 2015-10-22 06:58:58 ? is the trouble with getting the patches out to apply? 2015-10-22 06:59:05 also, people seem to have difficult sending patches correctlyl 2015-10-22 06:59:08 because git am takes multiple args 2015-10-22 06:59:27 i've a github account, it's fcolista. ncopa, you can add me, thx 2015-10-22 06:59:50 fcolista: invited you 2015-10-22 07:00:21 thx ncopa 2015-10-22 07:02:13 I wonder if it's feasible to hook up a thing so that when a github pull req comes in it pushes something to the mailing list 2015-10-22 07:02:40 https://github.com/google/pull-request-mailer 2015-10-22 07:02:45 probably not worth it 2015-10-22 07:02:59 i think i already get email 2015-10-22 07:03:59 haskell though, eh 2015-10-22 07:21:30 ncopa: i dont think you need to be a member to get noticiations 2015-10-22 07:22:45 ncopa: letsencrypt seems to work, except the certs are only 3 months valid. 2015-10-22 07:23:33 should have some sort of automatic renewal. 2015-10-22 07:26:00 interesting 2015-10-22 07:27:40 i guess products will implemenet the protocol itself. 2015-10-22 07:37:10 anyone have access to mailing list logs? email sent, my smtpd logs say mail delivered, but my mail isn't getting to the aports mailing list. I'm getting everyone else's posts fine 2015-10-22 07:42:14 morning, what's the proper way to detect alpine/musl in C? musl doesn't have __MUSL__ alike 2015-10-22 07:43:04 xming: i believe you cannot. 2015-10-22 07:43:14 xming, you need to detect each feature 2015-10-22 07:43:32 musl intentionally does not give __MUSL__ because probably the next version supports the feature you want 2015-10-22 07:43:42 you should write per-feature autoconf test 2015-10-22 07:43:44 or similar 2015-10-22 07:44:00 or if it's standard feature 2015-10-22 07:44:07 and glibc provides extensions you prefer 2015-10-22 07:44:12 you can use !defined(__GLIBC__) or similar 2015-10-22 07:45:21 well I am just trying to port gsoap 2015-10-22 07:45:44 and something like _GNUSOURCE is triggered, which shouldn't on alpine 2015-10-22 07:46:11 _GNU_SOURCE is ok 2015-10-22 07:46:15 adding !defined(__GLIBC__) should be the solution :D 2015-10-22 07:46:28 musl supports several glibc _GNU_SOURCE extensions 2015-10-22 07:46:34 fabled: nope, it wasn't, removing that make it compile 2015-10-22 07:46:41 ah, ok 2015-10-22 07:46:56 _GNU_SOURCE is something the project should define 2015-10-22 07:47:02 with _GNUSOURC I had to use -fpermissive 2015-10-22 07:47:03 to have system headers expose GNU extensions 2015-10-22 07:47:19 which I rather not to :D 2015-10-22 07:52:18 I am trying to get zarafa working on alpine, unless there is already some other email-suite (not just MTA/IMAP) in the tree? 2015-10-22 07:55:23 is let's encrypt active yet 2015-10-22 08:28:49 should be 2015-10-22 08:29:29 https://letsencrypt.org/2015/10/19/lets-encrypt-is-trusted.html 2015-10-22 08:31:51 thats why i wanted it ;) 2015-10-22 08:32:25 oh they've started issuing ... just not public yet? 2015-10-22 08:34:22 ... should we look into packaging their toolage 2015-10-22 08:35:10 too bad that cacert never too off 2015-10-22 08:35:19 took* 2015-10-22 08:35:48 ammunta: i added it yesterday 2015-10-22 08:35:52 should be working 2015-10-22 08:36:44 oh neat 2015-10-22 08:36:57 I didn't notice 2015-10-22 08:37:46 I'm still really confused at why, if issue certs under domain validation only is okay 2015-10-22 08:38:08 we can't just put cert sigs in dns and call it a day 2015-10-22 08:38:28 idd that + DNSSEC 2015-10-22 09:07:15 Go people are funny 2015-10-22 09:07:44 "you don't need Go installed to run Go programs, static linking and all." 2015-10-22 09:07:47 then later 2015-10-22 09:07:58 I like Go :D 2015-10-22 09:08:11 "just go get -u . away. Dyn or static, need to plan for securty, not tech" 2015-10-22 09:08:45 that for compiling 2015-10-22 09:09:10 you need to plan for security by compiling on prod 2015-10-22 09:09:18 riiight 2015-10-22 09:09:32 hi leo-unglaub 2015-10-22 09:09:34 how are you doin 2015-10-22 09:09:44 sorry about the crypto root breakage 2015-10-22 09:09:45 hi ncopa 2015-10-22 09:09:52 dont ask ..... 2015-10-22 09:10:09 but dont worry about the crypto breakage 2015-10-22 09:10:39 as soon as it is fixed i try to live boot into it and then update it 2015-10-22 09:11:05 i need a way to reprodice it 2015-10-22 09:11:34 hmm, its a basic install on encrypted drives 2015-10-22 09:11:55 boot is plain, the rest is encrypted 2015-10-22 09:12:07 during boot it should ask for the passphrase, but its not going to 2015-10-22 09:12:13 it just drops into the emergency console 2015-10-22 09:12:34 i changed the initramfs init dramatically ecently 2015-10-22 09:12:38 recently* 2015-10-22 09:13:19 i have a new program, nlplug-findfs that is supposed to run cryptsetup 2015-10-22 09:13:28 i noticed, i should have tested it first in a virtual maschine, but i did not thought about that :( 2015-10-22 09:13:38 leo-unglaub: what do you have in your boot cmdline? 2015-10-22 09:13:44 cryptroot=.... 2015-10-22 09:13:45 ? 2015-10-22 09:14:19 APPEND root=/dev/mapper/root modules=sd-mod,usb-storage,btrfs quiet cryptroot=UUID=ebea8be7-eadc-4b84-8c43-f4a9e5dd41be cryptdm=root 2015-10-22 09:14:28 "the question is .. why would you need nodes outside a cluster in the first place" I swear 2015-10-22 09:14:48 some people do not seem to understand the notion of MY SERVERS ARE NOT CATTLE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A FARM 2015-10-22 09:16:15 leo-unglaub: i did test that the nlplug-findfs would be able to call cryptsetup 2015-10-22 09:16:20 and in my test it did 2015-10-22 09:16:53 i didnt test the changes in initramfs 2015-10-22 09:16:55 oh 2015-10-22 09:16:57 i think i found it 2015-10-22 09:17:32 stupid me 2015-10-22 09:18:03 did you forgett some # in the file? ;) 2015-10-22 09:18:10 leo-unglaub: worse... 2015-10-22 09:18:29 leo-unglaub: do you have the emergency shell at hand? 2015-10-22 09:18:49 yes 2015-10-22 09:20:27 can you do: nlplug-findfs -p /sbin/mdev -c UUID=ebea8be7-eadc-4b84-8c43-f4a9e5dd41be -m root /dev/mapper/root 2015-10-22 09:20:34 it should ask for the password 2015-10-22 09:21:09 and after that you should be able to mount /dev/mapper/root /sysroot 2015-10-22 09:21:30 and 'exit' to continue boot 2015-10-22 09:22:15 while debugging initramfs i did tricks with eval $(awk '{print $2}' /proc/cmdline) 2015-10-22 09:22:28 to set $root 2015-10-22 09:22:35 what can I do about execinfo.h? 2015-10-22 09:22:41 you can do that to set $cryptroot 2015-10-22 09:22:47 xming: you need patch it out 2015-10-22 09:23:00 grep execinfo.h */*.patch in aports tree 2015-10-22 09:23:11 and you'll find various example how we fixed it other places 2015-10-22 09:24:03 openbsd doesn't have it right? 2015-10-22 09:24:06 leo-unglaub: this is the fix: http://tpaste.us/AOro 2015-10-22 09:24:11 xming: i dont know 2015-10-22 09:24:22 no 2015-10-22 09:24:23 well it's GNU/glibc thing 2015-10-22 09:24:36 but I don't see their patch for that :/ 2015-10-22 09:24:53 might be openbsd has implemented it 2015-10-22 09:25:28 sometimes projects do #if __linux__ #else #endif 2015-10-22 09:27:38 I don't see those things in this project (zarafa) :/ 2015-10-22 09:28:39 ncopa: no, it does not ask for the password 2015-10-22 09:29:05 it just prints 20 times /lib/mdev/usbdisk_link: line 33: readlink not found 2015-10-22 09:29:07 meh it looks like it's generated 2015-10-22 09:29:10 also on line 5 2015-10-22 09:29:20 so there's should be detection somewhere 2015-10-22 09:29:21 always iterating between line 5 and 33 2015-10-22 09:29:42 leo-unglaub: those are other issues i think 2015-10-22 09:30:09 i will try reproduce it here in a vm 2015-10-22 09:30:12 i'm sure i will 2015-10-22 09:30:24 i have found at least one obvious problem 2015-10-22 09:31:01 leo-unglaub: do you use lvm also? 2015-10-22 09:31:04 or only cryptsetyp 2015-10-22 09:31:21 no, only cryptsetup 2015-10-22 09:31:26 lvm is sooo slow ... 2015-10-22 09:31:42 ncopa: whats your email address? 2015-10-22 09:32:33 ncopa@alpinelinux.org 2015-10-22 09:33:26 i send you the screenshot from the error message 2015-10-22 09:34:15 leo-unglaub, ncopa : the "readlink not found" errors are because nlplug-findfs sets PATH wrong for mdev 2015-10-22 09:34:15 can you chech that cryptsetup is installed in initramfs? 2015-10-22 09:34:47 fabled: i will fix that as soon i have fixed the initramfs-init issue with cryptsetup 2015-10-22 09:35:04 ok 2015-10-22 09:35:12 i did something stupid... 2015-10-22 09:35:15 crazy idea: rewrite initramfs-init in lua 2015-10-22 09:35:25 what did you do stupid 2015-10-22 09:35:25 :D 2015-10-22 09:35:30 ncopa: in the emergency shell cryptsetup is available and callable 2015-10-22 09:35:31 crazy idea indeed 2015-10-22 09:35:36 good 2015-10-22 09:35:45 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/tree/initramfs-init.in?h=nlplug-findfs#n351 2015-10-22 09:35:46 what's so crazy about it 2015-10-22 09:35:50 i think many initramfs issues are because of shell quoting, and reliance on PATH and similar 2015-10-22 09:36:05 and even then it's not possible to get easily what you want -- e.g. KOPT_* and use of eval etc. 2015-10-22 09:36:16 there i check for crypt opts 2015-10-22 09:36:21 and set cryptopts 2015-10-22 09:36:41 but then i never use $cryptopts: http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/tree/initramfs-init.in?h=nlplug-findfs#n367 2015-10-22 09:37:31 nlplug-findfs $cryptopts -p /sbin/mdev ... 2015-10-22 09:37:33 shoudl fix it 2015-10-22 09:39:43 what's the initramfs size target 2015-10-22 09:41:48 dunno. but the current seems large already 2015-10-22 09:41:55 most cruft comes from kernel modules 2015-10-22 09:42:09 yeah 2015-10-22 09:42:14 kernel is huge 2015-10-22 09:42:47 fabled: what's the problem of relying on PATH? it needs to be set once at the beginning, that's all - or am I missing something? 2015-10-22 09:43:09 skarnet, the code sets it to '/bin:/sbin' but 'readdir' is in /usr/bin 2015-10-22 09:43:45 and you have a /usr in the initramfs? 2015-10-22 09:43:48 boo. 2015-10-22 09:43:52 not really 2015-10-22 09:44:00 i think it's only for busybox symlinks 2015-10-22 09:44:02 is that just where busybox links it 2015-10-22 09:44:12 there's a busybox config option for that. 2015-10-22 09:44:13 we could do instead busybox --install -s /bin 2015-10-22 09:44:24 i think it drops all links in /bin after that 2015-10-22 09:44:25 "don't use /usr in links" 2015-10-22 09:44:25 leo-unglaub: do you use btrfs for your root? 2015-10-22 09:44:35 frankly why don't we just link all of busybox's things in /bin and /sbin 2015-10-22 09:44:41 ^ 2015-10-22 09:44:49 ammunta, it's to support replacements 2015-10-22 09:45:01 apk add coreutils, need to replace those symlinks so they get preferred 2015-10-22 09:45:13 fabled: but you don't have to have the same bb in the initramfs... 2015-10-22 09:45:13 ncopa: i am not sure, but it think btrfs 2015-10-22 09:45:25 ok, i'll add that to the mix then 2015-10-22 09:45:32 for my test case 2015-10-22 09:45:35 ah wait? root 2015-10-22 09:45:38 yes, btrfs 2015-10-22 09:45:38 skarnet, it's same bb. but yes, for initramfs we could dump all symlinks to /bin 2015-10-22 09:45:42 on boot i am not sure 2015-10-22 09:45:44 but root is btrfs 2015-10-22 09:45:51 for root 2015-10-22 09:46:05 ... let the user work it out with their PATH? 2015-10-22 09:46:36 skarnet, but i think nlplug- will be also used in openrc init.d scripts. so it's better to get PATH right for that 2015-10-22 09:46:55 we could also set the path in mdev scripts 2015-10-22 09:47:06 but for now i think busybox set the path for them 2015-10-22 09:47:15 ncopa, initramfs-init sets PATH 2015-10-22 09:47:33 on line 14 2015-10-22 09:47:41 and openrc set it too? 2015-10-22 09:47:43 the PATH should just be set twice: 1. very early, 2. right after switch_root 2015-10-22 09:47:53 yeah 2015-10-22 09:48:05 problem is nlplug-findfs does cleanenv 2015-10-22 09:48:09 clearenv() 2015-10-22 09:48:14 ah 2015-10-22 09:48:16 so PATH gets lost 2015-10-22 09:48:17 it should not do that in first place 2015-10-22 09:48:20 ^ 2015-10-22 09:48:26 yeah 2015-10-22 09:48:35 it should set an env array 2015-10-22 09:48:36 it should copy PATH from environ[], setup it's own env[] table and use execve 2015-10-22 09:48:50 yeah 2015-10-22 09:48:51 (or use getenv()) 2015-10-22 09:49:02 yet another instance of "skalibs does that" :P 2015-10-22 09:49:06 i will fix that as soon i have fixed the cryptsetup issue 2015-10-22 09:49:18 :) 2015-10-22 09:49:36 skarnet: the only complaint i have with skalibs is that djb is weird :) 2015-10-22 09:50:04 seriously, i want look at skalibs closer after v3.3 is out 2015-10-22 09:50:15 I'm weird. skalibs has nothing to do with djb now :) 2015-10-22 09:50:22 now i just want v3.3 out 2015-10-22 09:50:32 yes, it just perception from my side 2015-10-22 09:50:51 how big is skalibs? 2015-10-22 09:51:02 sure, I understand. I volunteer to rewrite the initramfs for 3.4 :) 2015-10-22 09:51:30 i was thinking more of add support for s6 for v3.4 2015-10-22 09:51:53 or *maybe* even replace openrc 2015-10-22 09:52:07 start with optional :) 2015-10-22 09:52:11 yeah 2015-10-22 09:52:23 I volunteer to help with that too, ofc 2015-10-22 09:52:27 but as i said, now i just want v3.3. out the door 2015-10-22 09:52:31 absolutely 2015-10-22 09:52:35 skarnet, does s6 parallize startup? 2015-10-22 09:52:42 yes 2015-10-22 09:52:51 what is the benefit of using s6 instead of openrc? 2015-10-22 09:53:10 ammunta: re crazy. sometimes crazy is good 2015-10-22 09:53:12 clandmeter: it's faster to list the drawbacks :P 2015-10-22 09:53:22 ncopa: crazy? 2015-10-22 09:53:33 skarnet: shoot 2015-10-22 09:53:38 clandmeter: benefit 1: we have skarnet here :) 2015-10-22 09:54:16 actually, s6 is just the supervision suite, what you guys want is s6-rc 2015-10-22 09:54:30 http://skarnet.org/software/s6-rc/why.html 2015-10-22 09:55:31 skarnet, you have the "init.d" file format, or something different? 2015-10-22 09:55:32 the drawback is that it's raw (for now), so everything UI needs to be scripted 2015-10-22 09:56:02 something *completely* different, but calls can be made into init.d scripts for compatibility 2015-10-22 09:56:34 skarnet: it doesnt exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_supervision 2015-10-22 09:56:54 clandmeter: I have no control over what wikipedia says 2015-10-22 09:57:05 skarnet: sure you do, editing :))) 2015-10-22 09:57:18 when I tried to add a s6 article, some mod rejected the submission 2015-10-22 09:57:24 so I said fuck'em 2015-10-22 09:57:34 well it does now so 2015-10-22 09:57:37 er 2015-10-22 09:57:43 skarnet, you have examples on how to 'define a service' 2015-10-22 09:57:46 not s6 article 2015-10-22 09:57:46 yes 2015-10-22 09:58:26 details are in http://skarnet.org/software/s6-rc/s6-rc-compile.html 2015-10-22 09:58:35 fabled: i kinda like the initramfs init as lua 2015-10-22 09:59:15 skarnet, the problem with 'config option in individual file' is that they take lot of ram (in tmpfs) and disk space (unless using tail merging which is slow) 2015-10-22 09:59:28 skarnet, one of primary reasons why we wrote apk-tools 2015-10-22 09:59:30 fabled: that is not going to initramfs 2015-10-22 09:59:39 all other pkg managers have their database in gazillion files 2015-10-22 09:59:50 the overhead when running a root-in-tmpfs system is too much 2015-10-22 10:00:07 that is the source format. The compiled format is packed. 2015-10-22 10:00:17 you can put that in an initramfs if you insist. 2015-10-22 10:00:24 (but you shouldn't have to.) 2015-10-22 10:00:33 skarnet: I don't think the initramfs is the issue 2015-10-22 10:00:56 yeah, root-as-tmpfs. same. 2015-10-22 10:01:04 skarnet, does the source files need to be on a system; or it's just the build time source? 2015-10-22 10:01:07 running off tmpfs is a target use case 2015-10-22 10:01:19 fabled: only the build time source. 2015-10-22 10:01:27 skarnet, ah, ok 2015-10-22 10:01:56 skarnet, so the package drops a binary file that describes the service? 2015-10-22 10:02:35 the package drops a directory containing several things, including a database describing all services 2015-10-22 10:02:51 depending on what you call "the package" 2015-10-22 10:02:59 s6-rc only provides the tools, not the policy 2015-10-22 10:03:18 it's very different from openrc in that it's not turnkey 2015-10-22 10:03:52 right 2015-10-22 10:04:00 but the tools are made to be scripted around depending on your policy 2015-10-22 10:04:02 well, we needed to write several openrc files too 2015-10-22 10:04:19 and if you need a feature, we can discuss it :) 2015-10-22 10:04:42 i've been running some embedded systems recently and openrc is kinda slow on them 2015-10-22 10:04:44 due to: 2015-10-22 10:04:48 1) not parallelizing 2015-10-22 10:05:01 2) executing sh to read the conf.d + other options 2015-10-22 10:05:10 3) needing to calc deps on boot 2015-10-22 10:05:23 exactly the reasons why I don't like openrc 2015-10-22 10:05:33 4) having excess stuff in init.d; like relocation /var/run to tmpfs. 2015-10-22 10:05:35 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86738345/s6-rc-compiled.html the compiled dir actually looks like this 2015-10-22 10:06:23 that's nice formatting, what tool does that? 2015-10-22 10:06:23 the init script should directly setup /var as tmpfs; not as separate init.d stage 2015-10-22 10:06:35 skarnet: tree -FCH. --nolinks 2015-10-22 10:06:55 what, /var as tmpfs? /var should be persistent across reboots. 2015-10-22 10:07:01 skarnet, /var/run 2015-10-22 10:07:02 unless you have no user state at all. 2015-10-22 10:07:05 ah, ok. 2015-10-22 10:07:56 s6-rc doesn't provide an init.d - define exactly the services you need. 2015-10-22 10:11:07 speaking of which I should rebuild my image without openrc 2015-10-22 10:11:20 it's just that they get pulled in by alpine-base 2015-10-22 10:16:40 skarnet, yeah, sounds like good thing. need to look at it in more detail after 3.3 gets branched 2015-10-22 10:16:51 though 2015-10-22 10:17:05 never mind. i need to run. 2015-10-22 10:17:09 back tomorrow or so 2015-10-22 10:17:27 np, if you have suggestions/wishes/whatever, please send them. 2015-10-22 10:17:44 ncopa: found the error? 2015-10-22 10:19:47 huh. it's actually the openrc package providing /run? 2015-10-22 10:23:05 would someone be kind enought to move opensmtpd to main? been usnig it nicely for a while now 2015-10-22 10:23:28 s/usnig/using 2015-10-22 10:25:56 main or communtity? 2015-10-22 10:26:51 main, several of us are happy to support it 2015-10-22 10:28:32 im not sure if thats the definition of main vs community 2015-10-22 10:28:49 actually i still dont know the exact difference. 2015-10-22 10:29:37 i think main is "sec patches for lifetime of the release" 2015-10-22 10:31:53 I don't think we should change the init system in the near future it would be a lot of work… 2015-10-22 10:32:21 I believe there are many other issues that should be fixed first 2015-10-22 10:34:29 nmeum: that's why I'm volunteering to help, make it optional and ensure compatibility 2015-10-22 10:35:44 yeah, I do like s6 and think it would be a good idea to replace openrc but I think other stuff should have higher priority atm 2015-10-22 10:36:16 for instance replacing udev with something simpler (as discussed on the ML) soon would be nice 2015-10-22 10:36:32 *a higher priority 2015-10-22 10:36:54 is there an official alpine stance on vdev? 2015-10-22 10:37:38 I don't think so 2015-10-22 10:37:47 but there is a thread on alpine-devel where vdev was discussed as well http://lists.alpinelinux.org/alpine-devel/3345.html 2015-10-22 10:37:59 I would prefer nldev + smdev though 2015-10-22 10:38:21 ah, C++, ugh 2015-10-22 10:38:25 I think ncopa even started writing some patches for nldev a few months ago 2015-10-22 10:38:31 yeah, it's c++ which sucks indeed 2015-10-22 10:38:39 that's why I prefer nldev 2015-10-22 10:38:44 makes sense 2015-10-22 10:38:47 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/user/ncopa/nldev/ 2015-10-22 10:39:31 I know nldev, I even have (what I think is) a better one: s6-uevent-listener :P 2015-10-22 10:39:40 but to me replacing udev is more important than replacing openrc 2015-10-22 10:39:41 the hard part isn't the netlink listener, it's the lib 2015-10-22 10:39:52 and the API for events 2015-10-22 10:39:53 yep 2015-10-22 10:41:43 in general: all this stuff should probably be discussed after the 3.3 release (at least that's my take on it) 2015-10-22 10:41:59 everyone agrees on this 2015-10-22 10:42:32 well left to be *done* after 3.3 release 2015-10-22 10:43:05 ammunta: unless people consider that discussion takes time away from effort put into releasing 3.3 2015-10-22 10:43:29 which can be true 2015-10-22 10:44:04 yeah replace openrc with systemd :D 2015-10-22 10:44:07 ACTION runs 2015-10-22 10:44:11 it can be 2015-10-22 10:44:40 I don't see everyone agreeing on it though :&& 2015-10-22 10:44:55 ACTION is throwing his sandwitch at xming for even bringing up systemd 2015-10-22 10:45:06 waste of a perfectly good sandwich 2015-10-22 10:45:29 I do think that s6 would be the best alternative to openrc if we really want to replace it 2015-10-22 10:45:35 + 2015-10-22 10:46:09 systemd isn't worth the sandwich 2015-10-22 10:46:12 nmeum: if it's a question of manpower, I know what I have to do: provide the manpower :) 2015-10-22 10:46:20 :) 2015-10-22 10:46:42 skarnet: how big is s6? in terms of file size? is it bigger than openrc? 2015-10-22 10:46:42 I kind of like openrc, probably because I've been using it for the last 10 years or so 2015-10-22 10:47:37 nmeum: hard to compare, because it's really execline + s6 + s6-rc against openrc, so the s6 world is bigger, but does a lot more 2015-10-22 10:47:45 sure 2015-10-22 10:47:45 which isn't what you want to hear, I know 2015-10-22 10:48:32 the questions is how much of this needs to be in base and what impact it would have on the size of the base image 2015-10-22 10:48:38 my argument isn't on binary space, it's on architecture, running time, resources used up at run time 2015-10-22 10:49:26 skarnet: also skalibs 2015-10-22 10:49:28 well I'm still getting familiar with alpine, I intend to test it when I know enough 2015-10-22 10:49:38 skalibs itself is a large part of the size 2015-10-22 10:49:54 ammunta: depends if you have a policy to link dynamically 2015-10-22 10:50:17 well ... there is a context here 2015-10-22 10:50:38 I usually link against static skalibs, because not much gets pulled in in each binary 2015-10-22 10:52:30 nmeum: I'll make measurements and give rough numbers 2015-10-22 10:52:37 yeah, that would be great 2015-10-22 10:53:39 just rewrite openrc in python, then everything will be fine *g* 2015-10-22 10:53:54 or in nodejs 2015-10-22 10:53:56 or just use systemd 2015-10-22 10:54:13 (just trolling) 2015-10-22 10:54:17 ACTION leaves you all to sandwich-flinging and goes to lunch 2015-10-22 10:54:23 :) 2015-10-22 10:54:30 speaking of python why do we even package miniperl 2015-10-22 10:54:45 python sucks!!! 2015-10-22 10:55:00 okay those two things are not actually related but 2015-10-22 10:55:19 true, but it just needed to get this of my cheast 2015-10-22 10:55:22 sorry about that 2015-10-22 10:57:42 back from lunch and what do i find? 2015-10-22 10:57:48 a huge backlog? 2015-10-22 10:57:51 sandwiches flying around! 2015-10-22 10:57:58 :) 2015-10-22 10:58:23 ACTION throws a potato on xming 2015-10-22 10:59:32 free sandwitch and potato \o/ 2015-10-22 11:00:10 setting up crypto root was harder than it should be 2015-10-22 11:00:14 its simple in theory 2015-10-22 11:00:34 now I am stuck with getgrent_r 2015-10-22 11:01:06 ncopa: it's actually not that hard 2015-10-22 11:01:15 zarafa is a piece of software written exclusively for GNU/Linux :( 2015-10-22 11:01:29 nmeum: i get my initramfs wrong every time 2015-10-22 11:01:48 xming: start with filing a bug report 2015-10-22 11:02:02 "a" bug report? 2015-10-22 11:02:07 more like 1000s 2015-10-22 11:02:08 ...or 10 2015-10-22 11:02:49 I don't think they care much, lot's of neglected *BSD related stuffs 2015-10-22 11:03:06 but I just can't figure out how OpenBSD has it in its port 2015-10-22 11:03:24 ncopa: regarding community, do we have documentation when to move a pkg to community/main/testing? 2015-10-22 11:03:32 no 2015-10-22 11:03:34 maybe I need to install oBSD in a vm 2015-10-22 11:03:36 we need that doc 2015-10-22 11:03:45 indeed 2015-10-22 11:03:57 a doc that explains the thinking 2015-10-22 11:04:12 requirement for 'main' is someone willing to maintain it for 2 years 2015-10-22 11:04:32 and also have the skills and time to actually do it 2015-10-22 11:04:49 we need believe that someone will actually maintain it for 2 years 2015-10-22 11:04:52 2 years for all the future releases too? 2015-10-22 11:05:17 for community 6 months + best effort 2015-10-22 11:05:29 xming: yes 2015-10-22 11:05:31 however 2015-10-22 11:05:59 with my job situation changed, it might be that we will have to reduce the support time 2015-10-22 11:06:14 what's our release schedule anyway 2015-10-22 11:06:32 ammunta: every 6 months, we take whatever we have in edge and ship release 2015-10-22 11:06:40 ncopa: i saw you move my chromium pkg to community, so i wondered which reason was behind it. 2015-10-22 11:07:08 clandmeter: i dont want fix security bugs in chromium 2 years in future 2015-10-22 11:07:19 keep supporting the released version is easier, keeping up with future releases more time consuming 2015-10-22 11:08:17 so it doesnt matter who is the maintainer? 2015-10-22 11:08:22 clandmeter: i also dont think that chromium users will stay on same stable for 2 years 2015-10-22 11:08:53 clandmeter: maintainer matter ofc 2015-10-22 11:09:13 so i owe you an apology 2015-10-22 11:09:26 clandmeter: sorry for moving it without talking with you first 2015-10-22 11:09:36 lol 2015-10-22 11:09:44 i mean it 2015-10-22 11:09:46 send me an email ;-) 2015-10-22 11:09:48 ncopa: you don't work for Alpine any more? 2015-10-22 11:10:03 ncopa: i was just curious, im sure you have your reasons 2015-10-22 11:10:21 clandmeter: if you want the motivation: i dont believe you will be able to sec fix it for 2 years 2015-10-22 11:10:30 maybe an explanation in the git msg would have been nice. 2015-10-22 11:10:35 yeah 2015-10-22 11:10:37 you are right 2015-10-22 11:10:51 xming: i lost my sponsor 2015-10-22 11:10:57 so i know how to proceed with other packages. 2015-10-22 11:10:58 xming: so i look for job 2015-10-22 11:11:16 too bad 2015-10-22 11:11:22 ncopa: gl 2015-10-22 11:12:16 thanks 2015-10-22 11:12:43 i think i will be able continue work on alpine 2015-10-22 11:12:50 but it will likely be reduced time 2015-10-22 11:12:52 is it ok if i ask around to find maybe a sponsor for you? 2015-10-22 11:13:03 qdeyXHmyEe5v: ofc 2015-10-22 11:13:05 in fact 2015-10-22 11:13:19 i am looking for part-time job 2015-10-22 11:13:22 and crowd sourcing? 2015-10-22 11:13:39 preferred something that is related alpine 2015-10-22 11:14:03 i figured even using alpine as user for work is a good thing 2015-10-22 11:14:23 crowd sourcing is an option 2015-10-22 11:15:21 part time job (alpine related) + small sponsor + crowd sourcing so you can still work on Alpine :D 2015-10-22 11:15:35 xming: something like that would be perfect 2015-10-22 11:17:12 i saw that musl libc is sponsored that way: https://www.patreon.com/musl?ty=h 2015-10-22 11:18:46 nice! 2015-10-22 11:21:03 are there any professionals/companies using Alpine? If there are are you might sell some support contracts 2015-10-22 11:21:12 yeah 2015-10-22 11:21:17 that is an option 2015-10-22 11:21:34 someone had the brilliant idea of selling stable branches 2015-10-22 11:21:44 which in it self is a pretty good idea 2015-10-22 11:22:34 ACTION needs to get another sandwitch ready *g* 2015-10-22 11:22:46 I would really hate to see you getting a full time job that's not Alpine related 2015-10-22 11:23:20 leo-unglaub: you throwed that to me already 2015-10-22 11:24:44 so BSDs have getgrent_r 2015-10-22 11:27:10 ncopa: yeah, getting a cryptosetup running is much harder than it sounds 2015-10-22 11:27:24 took me 3 days to get it 100% right and still its not really perfect 2015-10-22 11:27:29 :) 2015-10-22 11:27:37 would like to fix it 2015-10-22 11:27:44 but will not be able to for v3.3 2015-10-22 11:27:45 i think 2015-10-22 11:28:02 because /boot is always unencrypted 2015-10-22 11:28:12 yes 2015-10-22 11:28:12 and i would like to hire you, but i have no money myself ... 2015-10-22 11:28:35 leo-unglaub: i'd love to work for you, but i need money :) 2015-10-22 11:29:56 ok i removed mdadm from the setup 2015-10-22 11:30:07 so plain sda + cryptsetup 2015-10-22 11:42:00 finally 2015-10-22 11:42:10 got my vm setup with crypt root 2015-10-22 11:43:32 say what you want, but the debian text installer is still one of the best ways to install your system on an encrypted drive 2015-10-22 12:14:46 leo-unglaub: in your emergency shell do: nlplug-findfs -c sda3 -m root /dev/mapper/root 2015-10-22 12:14:58 i am a bit unsure if it is /dev/mapper/root or mapper/root 2015-10-22 12:15:10 maybe add -d option too 2015-10-22 12:15:24 i can check it here 2015-10-22 12:15:32 then you should be prompted for password 2015-10-22 12:15:44 after that you do: mount /dev/mapper/root /sysroot 2015-10-22 12:15:46 and exit 2015-10-22 12:15:48 to continue boot 2015-10-22 12:16:37 actually 2015-10-22 12:16:45 is not /dev/mapper/root or mapper/root 2015-10-22 12:16:50 nlplug-findfs: /dev/dm-0: 2015-10-22 12:16:50 type='btrfs' 2015-10-22 12:16:50 label='(null)' 2015-10-22 12:16:50 uuid='(null)' 2015-10-22 12:16:54 its dm-0 2015-10-22 12:18:27 leo-unglaub: I really don't think that we need a text installer 2015-10-22 12:18:33 it just makes things more complicated 2015-10-22 12:18:39 i like text installer 2015-10-22 12:18:45 as they work over ssh and serial 2015-10-22 12:18:50 because it streamlines the entire procedure and makes customization more complicated 2015-10-22 12:19:25 what i'd like is a installer that takes a .yaml input 2015-10-22 12:19:48 .yaml why? 2015-10-22 12:19:50 and a "wizard" that can generate a .yaml 2015-10-22 12:19:59 makes it easy to do unatended installs 2015-10-22 12:20:35 ie. a wizard that asks the needed questions, and the generate config for unattended install 2015-10-22 12:20:37 openbsd has a nice approach for unattended installs it servers a .conf files using tftp 2015-10-22 12:20:40 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man8/autoinstall.8?query=autoinstall 2015-10-22 12:20:51 i need to read that 2015-10-22 12:21:04 and openbsd is a good inspiration 2015-10-22 12:21:07 maybe we should just copy OpenBSDs installer 2015-10-22 12:21:13 it's the best installer if have seen so far 2015-10-22 12:21:16 ncopa: yeah, it boots again 2015-10-22 12:21:19 :) 2015-10-22 12:21:27 it just asks a bunch of questions and you can jump to a shell at any point 2015-10-22 12:21:33 and with autoinstall the entire thing can be automated 2015-10-22 12:21:50 nmeum: something like that iw what i want yes 2015-10-22 12:22:13 nmeum: the plan is/was to replace our current installers with setup-box one day 2015-10-22 12:22:30 that is supposed to parse json/puppet to produce similar questions that we have now with setup-* 2015-10-22 12:22:38 I heard about that setup-box is the python tool which uses a json file, right? 2015-10-22 12:22:40 oh reminds me 2015-10-22 12:22:47 ACTION doesn't like the setup-box idea 2015-10-22 12:22:50 it uses json 2015-10-22 12:22:52 nmeum: not python 2015-10-22 12:22:56 but it uses jq 2015-10-22 12:23:08 json/yaml is completely irrelevant 2015-10-22 12:23:09 and yes, json, because there is no similar yaml parser for bash 2015-10-22 12:23:16 why do you need python? you can just use a .conf file which can be sourced from a posix shell 2015-10-22 12:23:22 s/python/json/ 2015-10-22 12:23:23 we don't need python… 2015-10-22 12:23:27 sorry, I meant json 2015-10-22 12:23:35 is getgrent() thread safe with musl? 2015-10-22 12:23:43 the problem with .conf is that you cannot specify hiearchy of things 2015-10-22 12:23:55 xming: ask in #musl 2015-10-22 12:24:00 i doubt it is 2015-10-22 12:24:04 ty 2015-10-22 12:29:19 heh 2015-10-22 12:29:39 i think we can support storing apkovl on cryptsetup while at it 2015-10-22 12:34:37 by the way, can lbu do something fancy with overlayfs? 2015-10-22 12:35:44 leo-unglaub: pushed fix 2015-10-22 12:37:13 sweet 2015-10-22 12:37:16 i think it works too 2015-10-22 12:37:41 leo-unglaub: it should work for you to do apk upgrade -U 2015-10-22 12:37:48 sorry about breaking things for you 2015-10-22 12:38:52 nope, still not working 2015-10-22 12:40:51 ncopa: i send you the error screens again 2015-10-22 12:41:46 did you apk upgrade -U? 2015-10-22 12:41:51 did you get new mkinitfs? 2015-10-22 12:43:01 yes i got the new initramfs 2015-10-22 12:43:06 the script got triggered 2015-10-22 12:44:27 send me the error screen shot 2015-10-22 12:44:38 ncopa: already did 2015-10-22 12:45:16 ah, my phone is still sending ... 2015-10-22 13:13:07 about the installer: if you're doing something like "interactive tool to produce a conf file then batch tool processing the conf file": 2015-10-22 13:13:11 1. it's a good design 2015-10-22 13:13:44 2. please don't use formats such as json or *ml, key=value lines processed by a shell are good enough for this :) 2015-10-22 13:20:27 oh so not hype enough :D 2015-10-22 13:22:58 the day Alpine succumbs to hype trends is the day I flip tables and go OpenBSD 2015-10-22 13:25:55 skarnet: +1 2015-10-22 13:42:32 skarnet: if its only key=value then shell is good enough 2015-10-22 13:43:06 if we need a more structured data, like disk partitions, lvm, cryptsetup etc invloved 2015-10-22 13:43:12 then we might need lists and hash tables too 2015-10-22 13:43:26 key=val shell config format does not do arrays very well 2015-10-22 13:43:39 i know you can hack it 2015-10-22 13:44:19 *if* we can get away with key=val, then no need for json/*ml 2015-10-22 13:46:09 hm. Unless you need deeply nested structures, that can totally be done with the right syntax for keys 2015-10-22 13:47:51 i have seen some "config" files like: 2015-10-22 13:48:05 key_0="0,asdf,foo 2015-10-22 13:48:12 1,asdf,bar 2015-10-22 13:48:12 " 2015-10-22 13:48:18 key_1=.... 2015-10-22 13:48:22 key_2=... 2015-10-22 13:48:37 then i got question: how do i iterate over key_$n ? 2015-10-22 13:48:57 yes, this was for some automated install script for alpine stuff 2015-10-22 13:49:14 nested structures, lists etc 2015-10-22 13:49:21 will be needed at some point 2015-10-22 13:49:34 inlined databases 2015-10-22 13:49:51 so i think yaml/json might make sense 2015-10-22 13:50:21 i would rather do yaml + Lua than bash arrays 2015-10-22 13:52:14 eval is posix 2015-10-22 13:52:31 you have everything you need in sh to do that 2015-10-22 13:52:44 (even execline can do it!) 2015-10-22 13:53:00 you don't even need to depend on bash. 2015-10-22 13:54:49 i know i can use eval 2015-10-22 13:54:55 but i consider eval evil 2015-10-22 13:55:22 if you actually need use eval, then chances are big that you do something wrong 2015-10-22 13:55:51 no, you are just abusing the shell's quoting mechanism 2015-10-22 13:56:31 it's hard to get right, it's twisted, but it's not *wrong* 2015-10-22 13:56:50 python does much, much worse! :P 2015-10-22 13:57:03 true. depends on what you define as "wrong" 2015-10-22 13:57:09 python is not an option here 2015-10-22 13:57:11 lua is 2015-10-22 13:57:26 you really want array indices starting at 1 ? :P 2015-10-22 13:57:34 lol 2015-10-22 13:57:41 (I like lua, but it's still a dependency) 2015-10-22 14:00:51 true 2015-10-22 14:01:04 we can take the eval vs yaml other day 2015-10-22 14:01:14 it wont happen for v3.3 2015-10-22 14:01:22 ncopa: did you get the screenshots of the secound errorß 2015-10-22 14:01:30 leo-unglaub: i got 2015-10-22 14:01:47 can you check if /dev/mapper/root is there? 2015-10-22 14:02:52 i also think that you actually need cryptroot=UUID=.... 2015-10-22 14:03:06 ncopa: there is not even mapper 2015-10-22 14:03:07 sorry 2015-10-22 14:03:14 only /dev 2015-10-22 14:03:26 ok 2015-10-22 14:03:30 is /dev/dm-0 there? 2015-10-22 14:04:12 what do you use as root=... in /proc/cmdline (eg boot option) 2015-10-22 14:04:25 alp:~# cat /proc/cmdline 2015-10-22 14:04:26 BOOT_IMAGE=vmlinuz-grsec root=/dev/mapper/root modules=sd-mod,usb-storage,btrfs 2015-10-22 14:04:26 nomodeset quiet cryptroot=UUID=2b944be2-cd0a-4093-94a9-d09ace410d44 cryptdm=root 2015-10-22 14:04:26 initrd=initramfs-grsec 2015-10-22 14:04:36 hm 2015-10-22 14:04:38 md-0 is not there, but md0 2015-10-22 14:04:51 do you use raid1 mdadm? 2015-10-22 14:05:15 or mdadm in general 2015-10-22 14:05:16 yes, but not on /root 2015-10-22 14:05:22 only on my data drives 2015-10-22 14:05:26 ok 2015-10-22 14:05:48 how do you specify cryptroot= on boot line? 2015-10-22 14:06:03 cat /proc/cmdline 2015-10-22 14:06:26 as cryptroot=/dev/sda3 or cryptroot=UUID=xyz 2015-10-22 14:07:12 cryptroot is on the broken computer cryptroot=/dev/sda4 2015-10-22 14:07:18 ok 2015-10-22 14:07:24 but on my laptop where i did not updte its with uuid 2015-10-22 14:07:37 i think with uuid it will work 2015-10-22 14:07:42 this is my working laptop: BOOT_IMAGE=vmlinuz-grsec root=/dev/mapper/root modules=sd-mod,usb-storage,btrfs quiet cryptroot=UUID=ebea8be7-eadc-4b84-8c43-f4a9e5dd41be cryptdm=root initrd=initramfs-grsec 2015-10-22 14:07:50 and if you do cryptroot=sda4 it will work too 2015-10-22 14:07:53 i need fix that too 2015-10-22 14:08:31 try at the broken box to do: nlplug-findfs -c sda4 -m root 2015-10-22 14:08:40 then mount /dev/mapper/root /sysroot 2015-10-22 14:08:42 and exit 2015-10-22 14:08:45 i need fix that 2015-10-22 14:08:52 so it only works with relativ device specifications? 2015-10-22 14:08:56 does it work with UUIDs? 2015-10-22 14:09:13 it works with UUID and relative, yes 2015-10-22 14:09:15 i need fix that 2015-10-22 14:09:22 so it also eats /dev/sda4 2015-10-22 14:09:30 it is a bug really 2015-10-22 14:09:34 or missing feature 2015-10-22 14:09:53 nlplug-findfs -c sda4 -m root 2015-10-22 14:09:56 works 2015-10-22 14:10:37 thanks 2015-10-22 14:10:39 i know what to fix 2015-10-22 14:14:38 do we want support both absolute devnode or both absolute and relative? 2015-10-22 14:14:59 eg, root=/dev/sda4 and root=sda4 2015-10-22 14:15:27 and cryptroot=/dev/sda4 and cryptroot=sda4 2015-10-22 14:15:37 do we want require the absolute path style? 2015-10-22 14:15:44 i like both, but uuid should become the default for new installs 2015-10-22 14:15:47 yes 2015-10-22 14:15:53 uuid will be supported 2015-10-22 14:16:04 this is when specifying the devname 2015-10-22 14:16:12 do we want support both? 2015-10-22 14:16:17 or require one style 2015-10-22 14:16:52 both 2015-10-22 14:17:03 http://tpaste.us/3w1e 2015-10-22 14:17:08 somethign liek that then 2015-10-22 14:18:38 how often does it happen that a device node is not located in /dev? 2015-10-22 14:18:43 i never had that case 2015-10-22 14:18:55 but prople do crazy things with linux when they get bored *g* 2015-10-22 14:20:54 indeed 2015-10-22 14:21:36 learned from previous mistake: test in vm before push 2015-10-22 14:26:24 hehe 2015-10-22 14:26:37 it was just my office computer, so dont worry 2015-10-22 14:26:58 but if i had lost my stargate seasons do to that mistake ... i would explode *g* 2015-10-22 14:29:49 ok i just pushed an _r1 2015-10-22 14:30:32 mkinitfs-2.8.0_git20151022_r1 2015-10-22 14:30:36 shoudl fix it for you 2015-10-22 14:30:52 seems like chrome is in the oven 2015-10-22 14:31:48 so ti might take a few more mins 2015-10-22 14:31:59 i guess 20 mins 2015-10-22 14:32:36 hehe, chrome builds are always a read cpu burner 2015-10-22 14:38:17 :) 2015-10-22 14:38:23 45 min ;-) 2015-10-22 14:38:42 15:59 2015-10-22 14:38:55 so ~6 mins left 2015-10-22 14:39:16 not sure, but i remember it was around 45 2015-10-22 14:39:55 ncopa: https://github.com/alpinelinux/aports/pull/16 I used to put you as Maintainer, but I guess I don't want that any more? 2015-10-22 14:40:33 hm 2015-10-22 14:40:48 yes better not use me as maintainer 2015-10-22 14:41:09 i think i have reached my limit :) 2015-10-22 14:41:34 and we now need more maintainers to take responsability 2015-10-22 14:41:55 so who should we put as maintainer for new aports? 2015-10-22 14:42:21 leave it empty unless someone wants maintain it 2015-10-22 14:42:27 okay 2015-10-22 14:42:43 hang on 2015-10-22 14:42:48 i can give a short look at ig 2015-10-22 14:42:51 it* 2015-10-22 14:44:32 yeah, leave it empty for now 2015-10-22 14:44:39 okidoki 2015-10-22 14:44:47 i could proably take it later if needed 2015-10-22 14:45:02 if/when moving it to community repo 2015-10-22 14:45:23 lol 2015-10-22 14:45:29 ncopa: exactly 45 :) 2015-10-22 14:45:47 the diffs will work but i think i'd prefer just: #if defined(__GLIBC__) || defined(HAVE_GETHOSTBYNAME_R) 2015-10-22 14:45:56 ncopa: do you want reset and new PR, or PR of patches based on first PR? 2015-10-22 14:45:58 and remove the && platform... 2015-10-22 14:46:11 i think you can git push --force 2015-10-22 14:46:22 to rebase the the PR 2015-10-22 14:46:31 please dont create new PR 2015-10-22 14:46:37 yes force it 2015-10-22 14:46:40 does github do t hat? hmm 2015-10-22 14:46:48 i think it does 2015-10-22 14:47:06 i have mixed feelins about --force 2015-10-22 14:47:19 in a git PR that is the correct thing to do, to rebase the patch 2015-10-22 14:47:50 but i am afraid that new devs are tought that it is acceptable to git push --force to public repo 2015-10-22 14:48:16 you can protect your repo 2015-10-22 14:48:28 disable force push 2015-10-22 14:48:28 aha 2015-10-22 14:48:50 I can --force fomr local to my github repo 2015-10-22 14:48:50 if it becomes a problem we might need to that 2015-10-22 14:49:07 but does github changes the PR to alpine's repo automatically? 2015-10-22 14:49:15 i think it does 2015-10-22 14:49:16 let me try 2015-10-22 14:49:30 i think i have done it for something they wanted rebased 2015-10-22 14:49:50 also, the patches should go upstream 2015-10-22 14:49:54 the .diffs 2015-10-22 14:50:05 i think what they do is stupid 2015-10-22 14:50:32 #if HAVE_GETHOSTBYNAME_R 2015-10-22 14:50:34 shoudl be enough 2015-10-22 14:53:38 leo-unglaub: can you please try updated mkinitfs? 2015-10-22 14:54:21 ncopa: in this case I don't need to bump pkgrel or do I? 2015-10-22 14:54:28 no 2015-10-22 14:55:17 ncopa: just did 2015-10-22 14:55:30 did it solve it? 2015-10-22 14:55:33 funny thing ... now i see the passphrase prompt, but i cannot type or do anything *g* 2015-10-22 14:56:43 the system just freezes 2015-10-22 14:56:49 i already send you the screen 2015-10-22 14:56:59 hm 2015-10-22 14:57:10 ok 2015-10-22 14:57:18 that is unfortunae :/ 2015-10-22 14:57:26 yeah this is so cool, I didn't know that github supported that 2015-10-22 14:57:28 i think i know what happens 2015-10-22 14:57:58 i think the block device is found before the keybard driver is loaded 2015-10-22 14:58:25 you really must have changed a lot in that script 2015-10-22 14:58:33 yes 2015-10-22 14:58:36 total refactor 2015-10-22 14:59:17 let me see if i can help you work around that 2015-10-22 15:00:19 can you reboot and at the boot prompt append "1" 2015-10-22 15:00:23 or "single" 2015-10-22 15:00:42 it should give you the shell before nlplug-findfs is invoked 2015-10-22 15:00:58 i suspect that keyboard driver is not loaded 2015-10-22 15:01:44 and if that is true, then you shouldnt be able to do antying there either... hm 2015-10-22 15:02:46 leo-unglaub: can you test if you can get early shell? 2015-10-22 15:02:51 and if you can type in there? 2015-10-22 15:03:14 if not, then we might need append keyb kernel module to modules=.... 2015-10-22 15:03:18 at boot prompt 2015-10-22 15:03:24 otherwise there is something else that is wrong 2015-10-22 15:05:36 yes, i am going to the computer right now 2015-10-22 15:05:46 leo-unglaub: if you cannot type anything in early emergency shell then we know it is missing kernel driver 2015-10-22 15:06:05 and i have an idea how to properly fix that if that is the case 2015-10-22 15:06:53 i cannot type in the early console 2015-10-22 15:06:53 but it will require some refactor 2015-10-22 15:07:32 yeah, its propobly the keyboard driver 2015-10-22 15:07:32 do you know which driver it is? 2015-10-22 15:07:32 the problem is now i cannot boot the system and decrypt root manually 2015-10-22 15:07:37 i have to download an iso 2015-10-22 15:07:52 you only need to know the driver name 2015-10-22 15:08:00 and append it to modules=.... 2015-10-22 15:08:04 ah 2015-10-22 15:08:06 at boot prompt 2015-10-22 15:08:20 hmm, but i have no idea what the driver name could be 2015-10-22 15:08:56 usbhid 2015-10-22 15:08:59 hid 2015-10-22 15:09:04 hid-generic 2015-10-22 15:09:09 hid-cherry 2015-10-22 15:09:56 try adding to bootprompt: modules=sd-mod,btrfs,usbhid,hid,hid-generic,hid-cherry 2015-10-22 15:10:27 i am pretty sure this is due to kernel finds the disk device before the keyboard driver 2015-10-22 15:10:36 need to fix that 2015-10-22 15:10:43 yeah 2015-10-22 15:10:43 why are they modules anyway? 2015-10-22 15:10:52 with the modules it works 2015-10-22 15:10:59 i get some error messages, but the system boots 2015-10-22 15:11:17 clandmeter: because you dont need them all at the same time 2015-10-22 15:11:28 clandmeter: because on a server you dont need them 2015-10-22 15:11:36 leo-unglaub: the errors are the PATH/env issue 2015-10-22 15:12:06 i dont need a keyboard on a server? 2015-10-22 15:12:25 leo-unglaub: can you live with adding modules=... for a few days? 2015-10-22 15:12:27 clandmeter: on a remote server normaly not 2015-10-22 15:12:31 ncopa: sure 2015-10-22 15:12:37 i'll try fix it asap 2015-10-22 15:12:40 rearrange your internal USB port so it comes before your SATA :p 2015-10-22 15:12:49 we need fix it properly 2015-10-22 15:13:04 and it also solves other issues 2015-10-22 15:13:07 xming: hahaha, good thinking. i write a postit for my cpu do to it correctly *g* 2015-10-22 15:13:52 we need parallellize the coldplug 2015-10-22 15:13:55 ncopa: but dont worry, adding it by hand is no problem for a few days 2015-10-22 15:14:03 i need to go home now 2015-10-22 15:14:11 i would not need to reboot for weeks anyway if hybernate would work *g* 2015-10-22 15:14:11 thanks alot for your help fixing this 2015-10-22 15:14:16 hahaha 2015-10-22 15:14:25 sure, have a nice evening :) 2015-10-22 15:14:43 o/ 2015-10-22 15:29:18 ncopa: I would prefer if cryptroot would accept absolute filepaths only 2015-10-22 15:32:15 since devices can be theoratically located anywhere on linux 2015-10-22 15:32:20 they don't have to be in /dev 2015-10-22 15:32:43 and if your devices is in the /dev it isn't very hard to just prefix your cryptroot parameter argument with /dev/ 2015-10-22 16:55:32 +1 2015-10-23 06:34:40 morning 2015-10-23 06:36:09 nmeum: the kernel uevent will not include the /dev prefix and i just compare the devname as it comes from kernel 2015-10-23 06:36:17 you can mount devtmpfs anywhere i suppose 2015-10-23 06:36:27 but not in the initramfs 2015-10-23 06:37:26 but it might be good to be consistent with how you specify cryptroot 2015-10-23 06:37:44 fabled: i thought a bit on initramfs as lua 2015-10-23 06:37:47 and the more i think of it 2015-10-23 06:37:50 the better i like the idea 2015-10-23 07:31:02 initramfs in lua? What would be the advantage of that? 2015-10-23 07:37:14 nmeum, the problem with shell is that it's tricky to do certain operations efficiently (without forking subshell) 2015-10-23 07:37:24 and the script can become slightly kludgy 2015-10-23 07:38:57 anyone have access to mailing list logs? 2015-10-23 07:40:00 <@fabled> i think many initramfs issues are because of shell quoting, and reliance on PATH and similar 2015-10-23 07:40:00 <@fabled> and even then it's not possible to get easily what you want -- e.g. KOPT_* and use of eval etc 2015-10-23 07:40:07 nmeum: ^^^ 2015-10-23 07:40:38 most of the things we do in our current shell script woudl be better implemented in lua 2015-10-23 07:40:42 cleaner 2015-10-23 07:43:27 good morning 2015-10-23 07:45:12 hi 2015-10-23 07:55:42 ncopa: when will you add lua support to busybox? :) 2015-10-23 07:56:34 i actually thought about that long time ago 2015-10-23 07:56:43 i maybe even suggested it to bb ml 2015-10-23 07:59:27 so, my posts aren't getting through to the alpine-aports mailing list (although delivered from my end) 2015-10-23 07:59:46 could someone apply this little verion bump? 2015-10-23 07:59:49 http://tpaste.us/2kka 2015-10-23 08:01:44 ScrumpyJack: its missing checksums 2015-10-23 08:01:51 please build when you bump 2015-10-23 08:02:05 abuild checksum && abuild -r 2015-10-23 08:06:35 hmm, i did build it. I'm using it already 2015-10-23 08:07:18 i must have reset the git header and just edited the file 2015-10-23 08:13:39 lua in bb sounds interresting 2015-10-23 08:13:49 but i know something that would be even more interresting 2015-10-23 08:13:53 rust in alpine *g* 2015-10-23 08:15:33 thanks for updating the checksum for me 2015-10-23 08:25:20 leo-unglaub: do you know if someone is working on rust? 2015-10-23 08:27:11 as far as i know no one 2015-10-23 08:28:38 and this entire llvm build stuff is to ocmplicated for me 2015-10-23 08:28:42 i am not an expert in that 2015-10-23 09:01:35 ncopa: but the 200€ offer is still on the table if you are bored this weekend *g* 2015-10-23 09:26:53 can't rust be cross-compiled? 2015-10-23 09:27:15 onlx programms created in rust 2015-10-23 09:27:19 but not rust itself 2015-10-23 09:27:25 because they have strange build stages 2015-10-23 09:27:35 and during one of them they build there own llvm version 2015-10-23 09:27:39 and that use crashes on musl 2015-10-23 09:28:31 wth? 2015-10-23 09:28:52 yeah, i dont get it myself 2015-10-23 09:28:59 why they basically build themself 3 times 2015-10-23 09:28:59 update monit v5.15 pls 2015-10-23 09:29:18 in theory it should protect there builds for manipulation, but it dont get it at all 2015-10-23 09:33:58 leo-unglaub: have you tried it? do you have the build log? 2015-10-23 09:43:49 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/master/src/doc/trpl/advanced-linking.md 2015-10-23 09:47:24 you seen this? this langsec approach seems much more sensible than the go/rust/etc hyped languages, at least for doing secure code: https://ainfosec.github.io/crema/ 2015-10-23 10:28:03 xming: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/28667 2015-10-23 10:29:30 05:28 < leo-unglaub> why they basically build themself 3 times 2015-10-23 10:29:31 05:29 < leo-unglaub> in theory it should protect there builds for manipulation, but it dont get it at all 2015-10-23 10:29:39 oh my god do they seriously do that 2015-10-23 10:30:29 yeah it's supposed to protect against the trusting trust attack 2015-10-23 10:30:59 to me it seams just fucked up 2015-10-23 10:31:01 but thats mozilla 2015-10-23 10:31:09 they never ever had good build systems 2015-10-23 10:31:29 i also dont get why they fetch so much stuff during a build from the internet 2015-10-23 10:31:38 i jsut want some code and then run make on it ... 2015-10-23 10:31:49 all those hipsters complicate stuff soooo much 2015-10-23 10:32:07 it's actually really cool, it's just 2015-10-23 10:32:07 why 2015-10-23 10:32:18 there's no need to do that on *every build* 2015-10-23 10:32:46 just establish a known safe and sign that 2015-10-23 10:33:08 dont ask me ... i dont even get it to build on alpine ... 2015-10-23 10:33:09 once you do that you only need to do that on bootstraps 2015-10-23 10:34:10 the idea is that every correct compiler will compile code that may be *intensively* different, but *extensively* identical 2015-10-23 10:34:50 i.e. in the first step, the binaries will be different, but the binaries of your bootstrap compilers produce will be identical 2015-10-23 10:35:08 then you use each the bootstrapped compilers to compile the source again 2015-10-23 10:35:20 and they should be identical 2015-10-23 10:35:28 if they aren't, then something went wrong 2015-10-23 10:35:51 that way yu should know if someone messed with your compiler 2015-10-23 10:36:47 ammunta: if you are interrested, there is a 200€ bounty for a working apk add rust 2015-10-23 10:36:53 in practice trusting trust is an attack that never happens 2015-10-23 10:38:56 you need to predict the future implementation of your compiler or embed Ai. 2015-10-23 10:39:01 ncopa, leo-unglaub: I can take a look on Tuesday 2015-10-23 10:39:21 definitely not before that, I need to get some rests after this insane week 2015-10-23 10:39:50 barthalion: nice 2015-10-23 10:40:32 ... does crema forbid recursion? 2015-10-23 10:41:23 it does 2015-10-23 10:41:33 does crema forbid self-exec 2015-10-23 10:42:27 leo-unglaub: have you tried -fpermissive in the CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS? 2015-10-23 10:44:00 xming: no 2015-10-23 10:46:04 yeah I'm having a veeery hard time reconciling their claims with actually useful 2015-10-23 10:49:56 I'm p sure execve(2) and changing the length of a string alone is equivalent to general recursion 2015-10-23 10:50:36 mind, that's a pathological case and "hard to write" 2015-10-23 10:52:29 however ... it's on less broken if the bug is in a program you exec out to 2015-10-23 10:54:31 leo-unglaub: your bounty is still up? 2015-10-23 11:02:19 barthalion: I've resolved the issues with https://github.com/alpinelinux/aports/pull/16 2015-10-23 11:10:08 barthalion: yes 2015-10-23 11:13:37 but if you refuse the bounty the money will go to the red cross 2015-10-23 11:17:03 ncopa: just upgraded the initramfs but it broke my setup as well 2015-10-23 11:17:18 ncopa: the error is /lib/mdev/usbdisk_link: line 5: readlink not found 2015-10-23 11:17:32 ncopa: and /lib/mdev/usbdisk_link: line 33: dirname not found 2015-10-23 11:18:09 nmeum: yeah, thats normal 2015-10-23 11:18:16 i have the same error since yesturday 2015-10-23 11:18:20 but i can skip over it 2015-10-23 11:18:23 well it doesn't detect my usb keyboard anymore 2015-10-23 11:18:28 thus I can't type in my passphrase 2015-10-23 11:18:33 nmeum: haha 2015-10-23 11:18:33 so well…I can't skip that 2015-10-23 11:18:39 we had the same issue last night 2015-10-23 11:18:48 you have to add some modules to your cmdline 2015-10-23 11:19:24 ah, found it 2015-10-23 11:19:32 (17:08:56) ncopa: usbhid 2015-10-23 11:19:32 (17:08:59) ncopa: hid 2015-10-23 11:19:32 (17:09:04) ncopa: hid-generic 2015-10-23 11:19:32 (17:09:09) ncopa: hid-cherry 2015-10-23 11:19:38 then it works 2015-10-23 11:31:25 leo-unglaub: the red cross is a fraud mostly. we just saw what kind of tents they built for the immigrants. it's only for show, and not for the immigrants. very dissappointing... 2015-10-23 11:32:31 they built the tents on a slope that can be seen from the road, incredibly uncomfortable, while there was flat surfaces behind the hill, where the nice tent would not be seen sooo well. 2015-10-23 11:33:18 also they focused on the comming highranking politician and sent everyone to clean the street then dissappeared. also the volunteers have to sign a paper that the cannot be critical about the red cross and their ways doing things... 2015-10-23 11:33:30 oops. sorry for OT. 2015-10-23 11:33:36 complete bullshit 2015-10-23 11:33:42 i am a member of the red cross 2015-10-23 11:33:42 i was there 2015-10-23 11:33:49 and i can asure you that this is not the case 2015-10-23 11:34:58 well my experience is contradictory to yours. 2015-10-23 11:35:46 show me the paper they had to sign that they cannot speak there mind freely 2015-10-23 11:35:47 i want to see this 2015-10-23 11:36:03 i'll try to get it. 2015-10-23 11:36:12 what country? 2015-10-23 11:37:40 serbia 2015-10-23 11:38:28 but i fear we have no copy. we were on a tour along the borders visiting and setting up networks in the camps. we did not take the paper :/ 2015-10-23 11:41:39 as a longtime member of the red cross i can asure you that the rc does not limit free speach at all! 2015-10-23 12:04:50 hi@all 2015-10-23 12:05:15 question regarding build of openntpd package 2015-10-23 12:05:25 there is no "ntpq" in there 2015-10-23 12:05:32 the ntp query tool 2015-10-23 12:05:44 any ideas why not? 2015-10-23 12:06:07 seems not to be build using the openbsd-sources in version 5.7 2015-10-23 12:06:42 but official ntp release is 4.2.8 as written on www.ntp.org 2015-10-23 12:06:49 so i'm confused... 2015-10-23 12:10:40 alpine package is based on http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/OpenNTPD/openntpd-5.7p4.tar.gz 2015-10-23 12:11:22 but official release seems to be http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-4.2/ntp-4.2.8p4.tar.gz 2015-10-23 12:18:45 FWIW I ditched openntpd a long time ago, using chrony now 2015-10-23 12:35:33 red corss is not actually a coherent organization so there's that 2015-10-23 12:49:31 the abuild group seems to have stopped working with the latest abuild update 2015-10-23 13:04:01 ACTION slaps ncopa with some infra changes 2015-10-23 13:08:31 winter comming why use use tents, should use shipping containers :) 2015-10-23 13:12:14 deleting & re-adding myself to the abuild group & logging off & on does not add me to abuild 2015-10-23 13:12:58 task has nice new release v2.5 2015-10-23 13:17:27 BitL0G1c: that doesn't seem like it should be related to the abuild update 2015-10-23 13:19:52 ok 2015-10-23 13:40:04 nmeum: sorry about your broken cryptroot 2015-10-23 13:40:36 fabled is helping me cleaning up my mess 2015-10-23 13:40:52 hopefully we will have a proper fix for it today or over the weekend 2015-10-23 14:01:46 ncopa: no problem, I run edge so I expect to run into these sort of things 2015-10-23 14:03:38 thanks for your patience 2015-10-23 14:03:51 i actually tested root on mdadm 2015-10-23 14:03:53 root on lvm 2015-10-23 14:04:13 both in vm an on my private laptop 2015-10-23 14:04:16 ACTION slaps ncopa  2015-10-23 14:04:28 i tested the cryptroot on vm 2015-10-23 14:04:32 where it worked 2015-10-23 14:04:40 ncopa, can you check pm? 2015-10-23 14:08:05 but i think the keyb driver for qemu was either compiled into the kernel, or simply just detected before disks 2015-10-23 14:08:12 ok 2015-10-23 14:08:23 i think the real fix will arrive early next week 2015-10-23 14:08:25 monday likely 2015-10-23 14:08:40 we try hard to avoid this things 2015-10-23 14:08:56 but we need take some risks once in a while to be able move forward 2015-10-23 14:10:04 this will make it easier to support isohybrid and any kid of boot media 2015-10-23 14:11:07 im setting up patreon 2015-10-23 14:13:53 https://www.patreon.com/alpinelinux?ty=h 2015-10-23 14:14:00 how would you like to be rewarded 2015-10-23 14:14:10 can ppl try infra now 2015-10-23 14:14:11 actually i should ask that in the other chan 2015-10-23 14:14:18 let me know what is still down 2015-10-23 14:15:21 pkgs seems up 2015-10-23 14:15:47 bugs up 2015-10-23 14:16:12 nl.a.o up 2015-10-23 14:16:18 ncopa, what about other infra? 2015-10-23 14:16:22 can builders ssh? 2015-10-23 14:16:24 rsync? 2015-10-23 14:17:11 ncopa: ping 2015-10-23 14:17:18 hey 2015-10-23 14:17:32 iæll test 2015-10-23 14:18:01 i can connect to mqtt 2015-10-23 14:18:09 so i suppose it will work 2015-10-23 14:18:21 i test 2015-10-23 14:18:32 I have added limited nat rules 2015-10-23 14:18:38 there were too many 2015-10-23 14:18:57 so could be i missed one or two (or a whole crap load more) 2015-10-23 14:20:49 heh 2015-10-23 14:21:02 my builders mqtt clients are racy 2015-10-23 14:21:24 ncopa, for instance, i didnt add all ssh ports to individual containers. 2015-10-23 14:21:32 ill do that later 2015-10-23 14:21:47 only the one to mirror is important i think 2015-10-23 14:23:26 ncopa: last time I checked, patreon was limited to US... has it changed? 2015-10-23 14:23:41 aha 2015-10-23 14:23:44 i have not checked 2015-10-23 14:23:59 i was able to create a page 2015-10-23 14:24:05 and i said im from norway 2015-10-23 14:24:49 clandmeter i think one ssh port is important 2015-10-23 14:25:04 Host rsync.alpinelinux.org 2015-10-23 14:25:04 Port 22014 2015-10-23 14:25:13 or the builders will not be able to upload 2015-10-23 14:25:15 yes its to mirror 2015-10-23 14:25:20 it should be added 2015-10-23 14:25:24 can you check if ti works? 2015-10-23 14:25:43 ssh: connect to host rsync.alpinelinux.org port 22014: Connection refused 2015-10-23 14:25:45 it does not 2015-10-23 14:26:41 what does it resolve to? 2015-10-23 14:27:21 PING rsync.alpinelinux.org (88.159.20.184): 56 data bytes 2015-10-23 14:28:30 weird 2015-10-23 14:28:32 rsync:// works 2015-10-23 14:28:35 it rule is there 2015-10-23 14:28:52 i need to go 2015-10-23 14:29:02 i will check in here in later 2015-10-23 14:29:04 see u 2015-10-23 14:30:05 ok npo 2015-10-23 14:30:07 np 2015-10-23 14:30:08 nice wekend 2015-10-23 14:30:25 sorry i type too fast to be correct.. 2015-10-23 14:36:27 fixed 2015-10-23 14:36:36 i should not forward from 22014 to 22014 :D 2015-10-24 09:39:35 hello 2015-10-24 09:40:36 we got a odroid XU4 here with a running ubuntu image and want to install alpine … is there any information about the u-boot configs of the other boards alpine already supports? 2015-10-24 10:39:34 am I right alpine does not compile u-boot at all but relies on an already installed u-boot on the target board? 2015-10-24 12:46:10 awall git repo is not right: https://gist.github.com/bfritz/4f408de699244ac2835c 2015-10-24 12:46:42 "Bad object"s listed via web UI too, e.g. http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/awall/tree/ 2015-10-24 17:30:05 Hi, is multiseat like discussed here (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29163873-MultiSeat-X-Kubuntu-based-12-04-14-04) with alpine? 2015-10-24 17:32:10 Even ubuntu 14.04 has bottlenecks about dealing with a radeon graphics (does not work) and with fglrx driver, does not work at all. 2015-10-24 19:16:50 multiseat can be pretty distro agnostic 2015-10-24 19:17:04 oh he's gone 2015-10-24 20:27:19 hmm seems like the alpine generic arm (u-boot) kernel does not boot on the odroid XU4 … or I did something wrong ;-) 2015-10-25 01:03:34 Hello? 2015-10-25 08:57:02 clandmeter, you around ? 2015-10-25 08:57:19 yes 2015-10-25 08:57:27 you need an open port 2015-10-25 08:57:32 ok 2015-10-25 08:58:29 but worked earlier 2015-10-25 09:00:06 its up but i need to forward the port 2015-10-25 09:00:10 let me check the config 2015-10-25 09:01:45 could you also restart ssh 2015-10-25 09:01:47 pls 2015-10-25 09:02:05 I think I upgraded and did not do so 2015-10-25 09:03:18 but then even ping does not goes 2015-10-25 09:04:45 vkrishn: can you try now? 2015-10-25 09:05:34 conn refused 2015-10-25 09:06:22 does not ping 2015-10-25 09:06:41 ping is disabled 2015-10-25 09:07:00 ok 2015-10-25 09:14:26 ncopa: re: patreon might help to elaborate on the reasons for and how the money will help 2015-10-25 09:15:09 I just got around to looking at it and my first reaction was something like "I could send this along" 2015-10-25 09:15:30 but then my second reaction was something like "but then I'd have to explain and I don't feel up to that" 2015-10-26 07:19:57 morning 2015-10-26 07:20:00 ammunta: yes 2015-10-26 07:20:01 also 2015-10-26 07:20:14 i was thinking change it from 'alpinelinux' to 'natanael copa' 2015-10-26 07:20:34 because it will be for help paying food to me 2015-10-26 07:20:48 eg. my development time 2015-10-26 07:21:17 i need explain how/why it would help 2015-10-26 07:21:24 and what people will get 2015-10-26 07:21:40 i didnt have time to finish it up properly :-/ 2015-10-26 07:22:05 i also need to find out if it will actually work, or if it only works for people in USA 2015-10-26 09:37:34 patchwork does support multiple projects right? 2015-10-26 09:37:57 should we offer to host patchwork.busybox.net for them? 2015-10-26 09:38:18 add busybox to our patchwork 2015-10-26 09:39:39 ncopa: http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/ 2015-10-26 09:39:45 supports a few :) 2015-10-26 09:41:09 ah cool 2015-10-26 09:42:14 ncopa: should i add one? 2015-10-26 09:42:53 not yet 2015-10-26 09:43:13 i wondered if I could offer hosting it for busybox 2015-10-26 09:43:32 did they request it? 2015-10-26 09:43:35 no 2015-10-26 09:43:42 they lose patches often 2015-10-26 09:43:47 i suggested patchwork 2015-10-26 09:45:49 few suggestions for patreon.com, $1/m for support, 10/m listed on the "sponsor" page, 100/m exclusive Alpine Installation DVD :D 1000/m A kiss from ncopa 2015-10-26 09:46:24 10000/m, a personal meet&greet 2015-10-26 09:46:46 :) 2015-10-26 09:47:43 i want avoid encourage the sitation that you will only get help if you pay 2015-10-26 09:47:48 ncopa: you get the idea, you need to give some reward to patrons too 2015-10-26 09:47:56 yes, i know 2015-10-26 09:48:04 i just dont know how :) 2015-10-26 09:48:07 bounty is not always having the positive effect 2015-10-26 09:48:15 exactly 2015-10-26 09:48:27 bounties can steer the project to certain direction 2015-10-26 09:48:38 i want try avoid that 2015-10-26 09:48:44 I agree 2015-10-26 09:49:13 i dont want the "if you pay we will turn alpine into whatever you want it to be" 2015-10-26 09:49:18 i wonder if it will work, not trying to be negative, just having doubhts 2015-10-26 09:49:20 but I would say for 100.000/m the reward can be bounty on a single package :D 2015-10-26 09:49:32 clandmeter: me too 2015-10-26 09:49:38 for 100K/m anything is possible :D 2015-10-26 09:49:56 we have never done it. 2015-10-26 09:50:35 I am not expert in these kinds of things, but from my understanding 2015-10-26 09:50:54 - it won't work if it stays in this channel 2015-10-26 09:51:22 - it won't probably work if it stays in the this channel and #alpine 2015-10-26 09:51:43 - it will work better if alpine is more popular 2015-10-26 09:51:56 we have accepted donations as a "thanks for the work already done" and with the condition that you cannot expect anything in return 2015-10-26 09:52:02 well, the audiance isnt that big i believe. maybe with recent docker users, maybe that could work. 2015-10-26 09:52:40 but we didnt really target developement in that direction. 2015-10-26 09:52:41 i also think it is a bit unfair that i shoudl take all the donations 2015-10-26 09:52:45 so maybe this is an opportunity to think about the PR 2015-10-26 09:52:54 when there are other people contributing with bandwidth etc 2015-10-26 09:53:13 ncopa: when you are getting less than 10K/m I think it's fair 2015-10-26 09:53:30 but that's my opinion 2015-10-26 09:53:39 if you want to be really fair 2015-10-26 09:53:55 setup up rules ahead 2015-10-26 09:53:59 e.g. 2015-10-26 09:54:14 80% -> devel, of which 90% for ncopa 2015-10-26 09:54:22 10% -> hosting 2015-10-26 09:54:30 10 -> reserve 2015-10-26 09:54:35 well, its easy for me, i dont need a single dollar/euro (yet). 2015-10-26 09:54:49 if anybody else needs it, its theirs. 2015-10-26 09:54:51 then it's clear where the money is going 2015-10-26 09:54:54 right, but its difficult to measure devel value 2015-10-26 09:55:07 aslong they dont get rich from it :) 2015-10-26 09:55:19 ncopa: if you had steady income, then I agree 2015-10-26 09:55:46 ncopa: but right now the most important matter is to get you a few K/m income 2015-10-26 09:56:03 some of the kernel patching (eg fabled's work) would probably not be done by so many others, regardless how much time they woudl spend on it 2015-10-26 09:56:07 xming: i am thinking 2015-10-26 09:56:24 i need enough for living 2015-10-26 09:56:30 but lets discuss it when its actually happening (if it ever does) 2015-10-26 09:56:49 patreon will not suffice, not in time 2015-10-26 09:57:01 so i need find a job anyway 2015-10-26 09:57:28 and if i get a job, maybe where i can work with something related alpine 2015-10-26 09:57:36 then i will probably not need patreon 2015-10-26 09:58:41 when you have a job, a patron/donation could work too 2015-10-26 09:58:49 possibly yes 2015-10-26 09:58:59 I saw some project with git pull reward 2015-10-26 09:59:58 say you pull someone's work to "main", that's $100, because (s)he comitted to maintain that for 2 years 2015-10-26 10:00:33 that way maybe there will be more willing maintainers 2015-10-26 10:00:42 possibly 2015-10-26 10:00:52 actually 2015-10-26 10:00:54 that is not that bad idea 2015-10-26 10:01:00 :D 2015-10-26 10:01:01 you get payed for maintenance 2015-10-26 10:01:24 well "payed" 100 for 2 years is a small pocket money 2015-10-26 10:01:42 but if someone want to maintain 20 pkgs that's not bad at all 2015-10-26 10:02:19 the idea behind patreon is that if enough people are willing to pay for it, then its not bad at all 2015-10-26 10:02:29 ncopa, offer to maintain X packages for sponsors 2015-10-26 10:02:42 yeah 2015-10-26 10:02:45 something like that 2015-10-26 10:02:49 how big is the community? 1000 users? 10k? 100K? 2015-10-26 10:02:57 still small 2015-10-26 10:03:20 the issue is alpine is not for novice desktop users 2015-10-26 10:03:47 well 2015-10-26 10:03:52 and w/o glibc it's not compatible with steam (for gamers) nor horaccle (enterprise) 2015-10-26 10:04:13 i think we have relatively small community person wise. but they all operate cloud or big clusters; so installation base probably very large. 2015-10-26 10:04:26 it's an issue if you are concerned about reach, but Alpine Linux isn't for that market 2015-10-26 10:04:46 the niche is indeed contains/VMs 2015-10-26 10:04:57 hmm 2015-10-26 10:05:38 for me it's evreywhere. hypervisor, container, bare metal server and desktop 2015-10-26 10:05:57 ScrumpyJack: same here :) 2015-10-26 10:06:12 ScrumpyJack: I can't migrate my desktop to it because I don't want a glibc chroot 2015-10-26 10:06:45 and there are some VMs which I am still unable to migrate, due to libc 2015-10-26 10:06:58 the market isn't the function Alpine Linux provides, it's the geeks that use it 2015-10-26 10:07:38 (imho) 2015-10-26 10:07:58 that's why Alpine need to grow up and reach a broader audience 2015-10-26 10:08:12 there are just some much geeks in the world :D 2015-10-26 10:08:24 not nearly enough to sustain 2015-10-26 10:08:34 that's my opinion 2015-10-26 10:08:52 personally, im perfectly happy with not having many alpine users 2015-10-26 10:09:03 i want the *right* users 2015-10-26 10:09:18 so far i think we have done that pretty well 2015-10-26 10:09:21 for starter I would try attract the dissatisfied Debian users/admins 2015-10-26 10:09:50 ncopa: well you know that one almost exclude the other :( 2015-10-26 10:10:18 Alpine shouldn't change to broadern it's reach. Perhaps awareness (or PR) should increase 2015-10-26 10:10:19 we all hate the "wrong" users, but we all want to have a bigger audience 2015-10-26 10:11:10 okay lemme share an idea I have for some time 2015-10-26 10:12:09 I want something like SOHO Linux distro which does the following 2015-10-26 10:12:18 - every service in a LXC 2015-10-26 10:12:42 - provides services/lxc contains like apps 2015-10-26 10:13:04 - runs on low power ARM/x86/MIPS 2015-10-26 10:13:37 I bought an ARM board and was planning to do that 2015-10-26 10:13:53 - one contain for routing 2015-10-26 10:14:04 - wifi AP 2015-10-26 10:14:07 - mail 2015-10-26 10:14:13 - softpbx 2015-10-26 10:14:19 - personal cloud 2015-10-26 10:14:36 - ... 2015-10-26 10:15:02 all that using Alpine, bare metal and lxc 2015-10-26 10:16:14 like https://sandstorm.io/ but better 2015-10-26 10:16:53 xming: you can do all that with Alpine Linux already. Installed you get a kernel, busybox tools and the ash shell. you can roll all that from there 2015-10-26 10:17:24 ScrumpyJack: yes I surely can, but not everyone can 2015-10-26 10:18:07 install LXC framework and modify init scripts to control containers built for just your one service 2015-10-26 10:18:46 ScrumpyJack: it's not about the technicalities here 2015-10-26 10:19:31 ScrumpyJack: I have already a few containers running, so I know how to do that 2015-10-26 10:19:55 xming: scaleway can do it for little money, its even baremetal for little money. 2015-10-26 10:20:06 xming: yes, from previous conversations, i know you do :) 2015-10-26 10:24:55 clandmeter: that's hosted, I am thinking more on the premise 2015-10-26 10:27:29 ncopa: https://www.patreon.com/taxes implication is that there's some kind of operations for outside the US 2015-10-26 10:27:52 email them to ask? maybe? 2015-10-26 10:28:41 has busybox expressed a need for patch hosting? 2015-10-26 10:30:27 05:52 <@ncopa> i also think it is a bit unfair that i shoudl take all the donations 2015-10-26 10:30:30 well 2015-10-26 10:30:35 how about think of it this way 2015-10-26 10:30:46 allocate all the money to a general alpine dev fund 2015-10-26 10:30:56 to be distributed to whoever needs it 2015-10-26 10:30:58 right now that's you 2015-10-26 10:31:16 well this is always the issue with most of the technical minded, to get some sizable income from the project, one has to a lot of "other" work and to most of us it really doesn't seem to be worth it 2015-10-26 10:32:38 ammunta: what money? shouldn't the efforts go on fundraising before thinking about where it goes? :) 2015-10-26 10:33:47 ScrumpyJack: well right now the money is zero :) 2015-10-26 10:33:57 allocate ~all~ of it 2015-10-26 10:34:50 funds should come from the companies that use Alpine Linux, if any. They know the OS model, and they may have the funds to sponsor on some manner 2015-10-26 10:38:06 oh well 2015-10-26 10:38:19 this kind of discussion is what i hoped to avoid :) 2015-10-26 10:38:55 i prefer technical and coding discussions :) 2015-10-26 10:39:27 yeah i know it might be necessary, but i was hoping to avoid it 2015-10-26 10:39:41 in any case 2015-10-26 10:39:55 i am greatful that people are willing to contribute 2015-10-26 10:39:56 the project needs coders and dev, and it could do with fundraisers 2015-10-26 10:48:51 ncopa: I prefer technical discussions too, but if technical people were getting paid, they could have more technical discussions :) 2015-10-26 10:49:02 yeah :) 2015-10-26 10:49:05 so... money talk is good talk 2015-10-26 10:49:09 ncopa: if you are satisfied with current state Alpine's community and only want the right users, then I will stop 2015-10-26 10:50:07 the "right" users are the users contributing back, preferrible with patches 2015-10-26 10:50:22 ncopa: with *good* patches 2015-10-26 10:50:28 yes 2015-10-26 10:50:40 there's also a non-negligible user base that wants to contribute but have no idea wtf they're doing 2015-10-26 10:50:52 ACTION blushes 2015-10-26 10:51:05 well, those who are aware of it are all right :P 2015-10-26 10:51:14 :p 2015-10-26 10:51:30 i have tried to attract people to alpine who comes to alpine because they see the technical value 2015-10-26 10:51:38 they see that what we do is technically good 2015-10-26 10:51:38 the problem is more those who aren't... how do you gently turn them down while preserving egos and without discouraging enthusiasm? 2015-10-26 10:51:49 not because it is this months hype 2015-10-26 10:52:09 ncopa: that's exactly why I'm interested in Alpine 2015-10-26 10:53:09 that is also why i have not put so much enery in a newbie friendly installer with lots of bling bling 2015-10-26 10:54:10 the problem I have with bling bling isn't that it's newbie-friendly, it's that it's big and often insecure :) 2015-10-26 10:54:32 there is ofcourse non-technical people who still know how to value simplicity and good code 2015-10-26 10:55:05 I find bling bling installers are user unfriendly, they all do things behind my back 2015-10-26 10:55:26 and even if those cannot code, they are still warmly welcome 2015-10-26 10:55:37 because there is alot you can contribute with that is non-coding 2015-10-26 10:55:42 oh, definitely 2015-10-26 10:56:09 i make a good coffee 2015-10-26 10:56:20 ScrumpyJack: define good 2015-10-26 10:56:23 i love good coffe :) 2015-10-26 10:56:53 ncopa could get paid in good coffee 2015-10-26 10:56:58 xming: I know a good coffee when i taste one :) 2015-10-26 10:57:40 I am learning/tuning my espresso making skill 2015-10-26 10:58:01 xming, please share your notes. :) 2015-10-26 10:58:07 currently looking for a good grinder 2015-10-26 10:58:19 $1200 can buy me a good one 2015-10-26 10:58:39 or $300 for a manual one 2015-10-26 10:58:58 my exspresso machine cost only 120 euro 2015-10-26 11:00:22 this is off-topic, maybe in #alpine-coffee :p 2015-10-26 11:00:53 apk fetch coffee 2015-10-26 11:01:00 i actually have coffe sponsor now 2015-10-26 11:01:30 ok i will be afk this afternoon 2015-10-26 11:01:32 see u 2015-10-26 11:02:15 o/ 2015-10-26 11:03:01 btw ncopa I find your installer newbie friendly enough :) 2015-10-26 11:05:20 ncopa: maybe newbies contribute more money, so that installer isnt maybe such a bad idea :) 2015-10-26 11:07:07 newbies will have more issues with musl than the installer I guess 2015-10-26 11:07:39 when they can't run their shiny proprietary binary compatible only with glibc 2015-10-26 11:07:57 their java app that has binaries compiled included 2015-10-26 11:08:00 etc etc etc 2015-10-26 11:09:59 does every pure java package run with OpenJDK? 2015-10-26 11:10:18 I never had good success with openJDK 2015-10-26 11:12:45 never had much issues 2015-10-26 11:22:03 well there's a sharp contrast 2015-10-26 11:37:42 skarnet) there's also a non-negligible user base that wants to contribute but have no idea wtf they're doing <-- you found me :D 2015-10-26 11:39:57 this sentence is going to haunt me forever now 2015-10-26 11:41:57 anyone here running alpine on scaleway? 2015-10-26 11:47:03 clandmeter: I did that once 2015-10-26 11:47:07 what specifically about it 2015-10-26 11:47:25 (probably can't help, but) 2015-10-26 11:48:03 xming: have you tried installing sandstorm on Alpine Linux? 2015-10-26 11:48:49 it looks pretty neat 2015-10-26 11:52:22 some files listed here have two time // in their path, maybe on system it does not metter but on web page it does looks suspect. https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/contents?pkgname=coreutils&arch=x86_64&repo=main 2015-10-26 11:52:55 crow: it's just in the tarball 2015-10-26 11:53:16 probably got got archived with c */ 2015-10-26 11:53:25 hmm 2015-10-26 11:53:39 looks like a bad concat 2015-10-26 11:54:22 i upgraded turbo, could be an issue with that. 2015-10-26 11:55:47 damn 2015-10-26 11:55:58 oh wait 2015-10-26 11:55:58 hm 2015-10-26 11:56:01 I have to use nat to access all my infra now 2015-10-26 11:56:01 not in the tarball 2015-10-26 11:56:10 clandmeter: what'd you do, firewall it off? 2015-10-26 11:56:29 it now has its dedicated fw/router 2015-10-26 11:57:01 what, instead of being the router? 2015-10-26 11:58:11 before it was behind our *business* firewall 2015-10-26 11:58:16 or however you can call it 2015-10-26 12:01:01 i have been talking with ncopa about setting up dmvpn. 2015-10-26 12:03:18 crow: can you paste echo $PATH here? 2015-10-26 12:04:01 ScrumpyJack "/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin" 2015-10-26 12:04:48 all good. you get the same symptom if you have trailing slash in paths 2015-10-26 12:05:13 ScrumpyJack well thats what only saw on that pkgs page not local 2015-10-26 12:05:33 crow: its an issue with the pkgs site 2015-10-26 12:05:37 ill look it up 2015-10-26 12:16:56 clandmeter: while fabled's opennhrp is extremely cool, may i suggest you take look at tinc, which may also meet your needs 2015-10-26 12:17:54 ScrumpyJack: ive been looking into tinc 2015-10-26 12:17:55 I keep misreading fabled as some sort of daemon 2015-10-26 12:17:56 i like the "Automatic full mesh routing" it provides, witch minimal setup and zero maintenance 2015-10-26 12:18:38 ive read some comlpaints its not so *easy* to setup. 2015-10-26 12:18:41 tinc is non-standard, and not probably well tested for security things. but it'll probably get the job done. 2015-10-26 12:18:59 opennhrp is deprecated with the new quagga-nhrp work i did 2015-10-26 12:19:07 strongSwan+quagga 2015-10-26 12:19:09 s/witch/which - heh, my daughter's Halloween demands are getting to me 2015-10-26 12:19:25 in any case; no vpn solution that does mesh routing is simple to setup or maintain 2015-10-26 12:19:27 ;) 2015-10-26 12:20:00 I found tinc to be a breeze 2015-10-26 12:21:02 fabled: could you elaborate on the non-standardness of tinc? i value your opinions in these things 2015-10-26 12:21:19 tinc uses custom protocols 2015-10-26 12:21:26 opennhrp/quagga-nhrp interoperates with Cisco 2015-10-26 12:22:29 letme check few things in tinc 2015-10-26 12:22:33 it's been a while since i looked at it 2015-10-26 12:22:40 fabled: which setup would you use to setup such facilty for our infra? 2015-10-26 12:22:56 you could call GRE used in DMVPN non-standard (well, Cisco) 2015-10-26 12:23:22 GRE is support virtually by any router nowadays 2015-10-26 12:23:37 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2784 2015-10-26 12:25:27 sure, but so it pretty much anything Cisco produce, after 20 years of usage (I'm not saying this is a bad thing) 2015-10-26 12:27:13 i like that tinc simply uses tun/tap + keypairs (ok, plus some switching/routing code that i don't understand) 2015-10-26 12:28:01 ok 2015-10-26 12:28:07 read on tinc 2015-10-26 12:28:09 more 2015-10-26 12:28:15 so it's probably easier to setup 2015-10-26 12:28:20 and needs less configuration 2015-10-26 12:28:36 but it does not scale as well 2015-10-26 12:28:46 the tinc routing protocol exchanges full route database 2015-10-26 12:28:55 it seems 2015-10-26 12:29:08 in that case it's pretty chatty; and will not scale down to nodes that have low bandwidth 2015-10-26 12:29:26 it might cause also issues with very large installs (10k nodes+) 2015-10-26 12:29:34 it's non-standard 2015-10-26 12:29:53 i can believe it doen't scale well, but i don't need it to, so i'm ok with it so far. 2015-10-26 12:30:16 seems it's some sort of TLS derivate, but custom design 2015-10-26 12:30:31 you have no control over the crypto primitives used; it's fixed 2015-10-26 12:30:58 cross-tunnel establishment is client driven 2015-10-26 12:31:08 so you do not have much control how the mesh will work 2015-10-26 12:31:09 ... 2015-10-26 12:31:20 dmvpn uses GRE+IPsec for encapsulation and security 2015-10-26 12:31:28 NHRP for cross-tunnel establishment 2015-10-26 12:31:33 and BGP (or OSPF) for routing 2015-10-26 12:31:44 that gives you full routing tools to manage traffic flows 2015-10-26 12:31:57 and it's scales internet size 2015-10-26 12:32:13 IPsec is used, so you have control over crypto used 2015-10-26 12:32:21 also 2015-10-26 12:32:44 tinc does crypto in userland; meaning kernel supported IPsec will do bigger bandwidth with less cpu time 2015-10-26 12:33:10 quagga-nhrp+strongSwan will scale better in CPU use (more throughput) and in size (more nodes / prefixes) 2015-10-26 12:33:15 and is standards based 2015-10-26 12:33:17 ... 2015-10-26 12:33:37 but if you have small self-contained setup, don't need to interoperate. tinc is probably easier to start with 2015-10-26 12:34:02 "scales internet size" I'm not sure that's required for what I (and Clandmeter) need. For my little VPN for a dozen of private hosts across 4 counties, it works. 2015-10-26 12:34:07 agreed 2015-10-26 12:35:01 their note on security: http://www.tinc-vpn.org/documentation-1.1/Security-issues.html#Security-issues 2015-10-26 12:35:21 arg, i daren't read that :) 2015-10-26 12:35:45 considering that IPsec/IKE, GRE, BGP and NHRP are standard (all have RFC) -- and most of them are used by multiple industry vendors 2015-10-26 12:35:54 i think they have received more expert peer review than tinc 2015-10-26 12:40:12 fabled, thanks for all the info. very interesting indeed 2015-10-26 12:41:48 fabled: seeing how many pieces we have to configure, it doesnt seem to follow kiss. 2015-10-26 12:42:16 but could be nice to learn while doing. 2015-10-26 12:42:20 clandmeter, the thing is, VPN is combining several known routing problems 2015-10-26 12:42:29 tinc implements them all minimally with custom things 2015-10-26 12:42:42 dmvpn uses the real protocols used to solve individual problems 2015-10-26 12:42:46 so yes, it's a bigger stack 2015-10-26 12:42:55 but you get professional tool for each separate sub-problem 2015-10-26 12:43:16 which problems would be bump in when using tinc for our infra? 2015-10-26 12:43:31 is it actually a candidate for it? 2015-10-26 12:44:57 i read somewhere tinc does not performe well when some nodes (in master node) are down. 2015-10-26 12:46:11 so does tinc make any sense if some of nodes are rather often offline? 2015-10-26 12:46:41 i have no idea 2015-10-26 12:46:58 when parts of our infra is down, something is surely wrong. 2015-10-26 12:47:44 i have no real-life experience with tinc, so i cannot say 2015-10-26 13:00:18 does anyone here have ODROID-C1+ and using alpinelinux with it? 2015-10-26 13:08:22 I tried an ODROID-XU4 last weekend and failed, have to wait for the USB-UART cable now 2015-10-26 13:09:13 there are other VPN implementations other than tinc and dmvpn which might better suite your needs clandmeter :) 2015-10-26 13:12:01 but implementing dmvpn would be extremely cool, and I, for one, would learn things along the way 2015-10-26 13:15:44 ScrumpyJack: such as? 2015-10-26 13:22:02 i don't know much about GRE, nhrp or BGP 2015-10-26 13:24:49 ah, maybe i misread that. did your "such as?" refer to learning about stuff or other VPN implemenations 2015-10-26 13:26:22 other vpn solutions 2015-10-26 13:38:39 you're asking *me*? :) I'm flattered 2015-10-26 13:40:13 i used frees/wan a long time ago. it's become openswan and libreswan, but you know that 2015-10-26 13:43:43 openvpn? 2015-10-26 13:46:39 there's a new kid on the block https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftEther_VPN 2015-10-26 13:48:15 (well, new to me :) 2015-10-26 14:14:51 ScrumpyJack: their configure scripts are nice... 2015-10-26 14:29:35 oh cool. are you building apks for it? 2015-10-26 14:34:18 i looked at it and got scared 2015-10-26 14:37:55 it does sound *huge*: "multi-protocol VPN software" 2015-10-26 15:52:18 for small setups I like gvpn 2015-10-26 15:53:02 softether is used by nice on windows I guess 2015-10-26 16:50:54 ncopa: I still get intel PCH FIFO underrun errors with the latest mkinitfs version, is this a known bug? 2015-10-26 18:39:23 nmeum: I did the measurements you requested 2015-10-26 18:40:06 for skalibs + execline + s6 + s6-rc, dynamically linked with everything, musl, x86_64: 2015-10-26 18:40:19 28 ./libexec 2015-10-26 18:40:19 960 ./bin 2015-10-26 18:40:19 356 ./lib 2015-10-26 18:40:19 80 ./sbin 2015-10-26 18:40:19 1428 . 2015-10-26 18:40:35 so that's roughly 1.4M 2015-10-26 18:41:07 about twice that if you prefer having everything statically linked (including static libc) 2015-10-26 19:25:30 LeSpocky ok, can you not prepare microsd with some other distro, why you need usb-uart? btw. which one usb-uart did you order then 2015-10-26 19:40:44 hm are we going to upgrade busybox anytime soon 2015-10-26 19:54:46 oh huh does busybox do the exec into the suid executable if that'd be a useful thing to do thing 2015-10-26 19:55:30 busybox doesn't do it 2015-10-26 19:55:44 if you want suid applets, you kinda have to make the whole bb binary suid 2015-10-26 19:55:50 which I find horrible, so I don't do that 2015-10-26 19:56:44 I have a separate suid binary that checks argv[0] and execs into bb if it's the name of a suid binary I want 2015-10-26 19:57:11 but I don't know how Alpine does it 2015-10-26 19:57:46 alpine does the same 2015-10-26 19:57:57 Nice. 2015-10-26 20:00:24 since have an hour ago, it also requirer the busybox-suid package to install /bin/bbsuid, which does the translation (on edge) 2015-10-26 20:00:27 wait how does su ... work 2015-10-26 20:00:47 otherwise, the non-suid version is linked 2015-10-26 20:00:48 it's linked to /bin/busybox 2015-10-26 20:01:08 mind, if you uninstall busybox-suid that makes the links broken 2015-10-26 20:01:26 might need an uninstall hook for that 2015-10-26 20:01:52 um 2015-10-26 20:02:00 linking bbsuid to busybox is a very bad idea 2015-10-26 20:02:19 the point is to avoid calling a suid binary when it's not necessary in the first place 2015-10-26 20:02:58 bbsuid is not linked to busybox, su is linked to /bin/bbsuid if available, /bin/busybox otherwise 2015-10-26 20:03:47 although no, sorry, not true, /bin/su is busybox, /usr/bin/su is bbsuid 2015-10-26 20:03:48 ah, my bad. In the latter case, there's no privilege gain by su, then, only privilege drop. 2015-10-26 20:04:25 funny way to implement it, but that works. 2015-10-26 20:04:46 https://fiche.greata.uk/h3v6 er 2015-10-26 20:04:51 oh 2015-10-26 20:05:01 why /usr/bin/su? 2015-10-26 20:05:15 To avoid clobbering the /bin/su link, I guess. 2015-10-26 20:05:40 It's a simple override mechanism via PATH. Kinda clever. 2015-10-26 20:05:44 still clobbered the ping/6 and u/mount links though ... 2015-10-26 20:07:19 yeah... what's really needed is a /suidbin before /bin in PATH for that kind of stuff XD 2015-10-26 20:08:10 I don't know about that one actually, that was invented way before my time 2015-10-26 20:08:44 eh? 2015-10-26 20:31:23 crow: i could try SD, but we want eMMC for performance. I want to use UART because it makes debugging easier, if for example HDMI does not work 2015-10-26 20:31:32 I did not order it yet 2015-10-27 07:52:31 LeSpocky is there HW acceleration for video decoding in GPU available. I would like something faster and better then Raspberry Pi 2 b model. 2015-10-27 07:55:05 morning 2015-10-27 07:55:17 btw, we should probably clean the env for bbsuid 2015-10-27 07:55:37 crow: I don't know, we bought the odroid xu4 for cpu power, we don't need graphics at all 2015-10-27 08:05:54 LeSpocky: I bought a Firefly 4GB RAM, which is very nice, only drawback is that there is no (e)SATA 2015-10-27 08:07:18 we already have the odroid xu4 and I'll work on alpine support for it, but not this week 2015-10-27 08:07:26 ncopa: does Alpine provides tools to build fully "automatic" installer of predefined packages? 2015-10-27 08:08:55 LeSpocky: I am lacking experience on ARM (non BIOS/EFI, OpenFirmware) platforms, I am still afraid to brick my Firefly 2015-10-27 08:10:31 LeSpocky: what I want is to repartition everything (get rid of Android) and make my own partition layout, but I still not sure how to do that safely 2015-10-27 08:11:18 xming: there are some hacked/incomplete support in setup-alpine 2015-10-27 08:11:31 but that is something that i think needs to improve 2015-10-27 08:11:38 I read a lot on the odroid and now I'm sure I could restore everything I started trying, first run however was not successful 2015-10-27 08:12:59 am I right, alpine does not build the u-boot bootloader but relies on the u-boot coming with the boards? (e.g. beaglebone, wandboard, …) 2015-10-27 08:18:04 no we build u-boot ourselves 2015-10-27 08:18:16 not for many boards yet 2015-10-27 08:18:23 our arm build / experience is limited 2015-10-27 08:18:30 i use raspberry and wandboard 2015-10-27 08:21:03 LeSpocky: my board has 3 ways to recover, last resort is shorting some pin to force deep recovery 2015-10-27 08:21:08 but still 2015-10-27 08:21:34 fabled: do we need to use Alpine's uboot? 2015-10-27 08:21:55 I was really hoping that DT would make things easier 2015-10-27 08:22:05 not strictly. but we updated u-boot default script to work with the .tar.gz image we ship 2015-10-27 08:22:15 so you might need to fix your u-boot script otherwise 2015-10-27 08:22:41 oh 2015-10-27 08:23:12 ncopa: where can I have a look to those hacks? 2015-10-27 08:23:19 /to/at 2015-10-27 08:23:37 setup-alpine -h 2015-10-27 08:23:45 setup-alpine -c 2015-10-27 08:24:09 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/alpine-conf/tree/setup-alpine.in 2015-10-27 08:24:25 search for "answer file" 2015-10-27 08:25:31 xming: if the installer is to restrictive for you, you can always just bootstrap alpine without the installer 2015-10-27 08:26:05 I was thinking how to make "application specific" installation iso 2015-10-27 08:26:38 xming: did you have a run alpine in vm in browser? 2015-10-27 08:26:46 e.g. if I want to make an iso that installs on any PC with Freeswitch 2015-10-27 08:26:46 i dont remember who did it 2015-10-27 08:26:50 ncopa: I did 2015-10-27 08:26:56 is it still functional? 2015-10-27 08:26:58 yes 2015-10-27 08:27:04 the url? 2015-10-27 08:27:10 i just got reminded of it 2015-10-27 08:27:15 i think its awesome 2015-10-27 08:27:21 fabled: I tried to find how u-boot is build for the different boards alpine supports, but couldn't find it, where is it? 2015-10-27 08:27:25 and wanted to post it on twitter :) 2015-10-27 08:27:41 LeSpocky, http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/tree/main/u-boot 2015-10-27 08:28:23 fabled: I saw u-boot tools, so the part running on the linux target later, but not the actual bootloader 2015-10-27 08:28:52 oh, now that i remember. latest u-boot support syslinux files 2015-10-27 08:28:57 we changed to that 2015-10-27 08:29:09 so if it's new enough u-boot, and the u-boot is built with that enabled. it should work. 2015-10-27 08:29:34 ncopa: moment, just saw that it wasn't on bitbucket any more 2015-10-27 08:29:51 oh I see, you actually build u-boot, okay that's a point to start then 2015-10-27 08:30:30 will have a look in the beaglebone stuff, I could even test this on my beaglebone black. thx :-) 2015-10-27 08:30:34 xming: i was also wondering if we should build a special kernel package for it 2015-10-27 08:30:39 probably not worth it 2015-10-27 08:30:49 just vanilla 2015-10-27 08:30:53 ok 2015-10-27 08:31:32 w/o any modules, just eth/kb/ide support 2015-10-27 08:31:36 LeSpocky, iirc, beaglebone is not well tested 2015-10-27 08:31:45 nm, i dont have time to mess with it really 2015-10-27 08:31:48 wandboard works well, and rpi 2015-10-27 08:32:05 I changed HDD recently, need to find things back 2015-10-27 08:32:08 i did add the beaglebone build with someone helps, but i'm not sure if it was ever tested well 2015-10-27 08:33:19 8-) 2015-10-27 08:41:45 ncopa: http://xming.github.io/alpine-v86/demo2/instant.html 2015-10-27 08:42:16 ncopa: http://xming.github.io/alpine-v86/demo2/coldboot.html 2015-10-27 08:42:48 hehe 2015-10-27 08:42:53 that is so awesome! 2015-10-27 08:43:23 fabled: so for ARM, basically uboot, kernel/DT are both still board specific 2015-10-27 08:43:28 am I right? 2015-10-27 08:43:56 xming, u-boot is board specific; kernel is generic for all, DT is specific but u-boot knows which DT to load 2015-10-27 08:44:24 so basically selecting right u-boot image, it can tell kernel what to do 2015-10-27 08:44:31 assuming the proper DT is available 2015-10-27 08:44:31 fabled: so I can use ALpine's uboot with correct DT for my board? 2015-10-27 08:44:56 assuming all related kernel options are enabled, yes 2015-10-27 08:45:31 I am less worried about kernel, more about uboot because that's more the unknown to me 2015-10-27 08:46:33 uboot is board specific; and the installation is board specific too 2015-10-27 08:46:34 fabled: so I can just use everything provided by alpine, make a correct DT, and it will probably boot but may not have all devices supported by the kernel,? 2015-10-27 08:46:54 DTs are provided by kernel 2015-10-27 08:47:00 basically 2015-10-27 08:47:06 for new ARM board, if it's supported upstream 2015-10-27 08:47:12 1) configure kernel and enable the board 2015-10-27 08:47:29 2) you get new kernel with DT and needed modules 2015-10-27 08:47:37 3) configure u-boot build for the board 2015-10-27 08:47:41 4) profit 2015-10-27 08:48:12 configure uboot? no need to compile? 2015-10-27 08:48:26 okay that's sound pretty straight forward 2015-10-27 08:48:34 by configuring, i mean also compiling 2015-10-27 08:48:47 my board is partially supported in 4.x, probably prettty well with 4.3 2015-10-27 08:49:08 fabled: ah still board specific uboot binary + kerenel 2015-10-27 08:49:22 xming, uboot is board specific binary blob 2015-10-27 08:49:29 but kernel is generic 2015-10-27 08:49:33 i meant 2015-10-27 08:49:40 enable new arch as module 2015-10-27 08:50:04 support needs to be enabled, but the same kernel can run on pretty much all armv7+ boards 2015-10-27 08:50:17 as long as we said 'Y' or 'M' to the required modules/arch flags 2015-10-27 08:51:49 that's assuming evereything is using device tree, right? 2015-10-27 08:52:18 yes, but we use DT for armv7+ 2015-10-27 08:52:25 if it's not DT capable, we don't ship it 2015-10-27 08:52:28 currently 2015-10-27 08:52:37 we can consider exceptions if there's willing maintainer 2015-10-27 08:52:39 but if the board vendor uboot is not using DT then I am SOLled 2015-10-27 08:52:40 like for -rpi 2015-10-27 08:53:15 okaido fabled thanks, now I know that I need to focus on uboot 2015-10-27 08:54:15 fabled: still it uboot support DT, then there is just one uboot binary with DT for each board, there is not more board specifi uboot bin any more 2015-10-27 08:54:29 that's why I deducted from Alpine's dl dir 2015-10-27 08:54:34 s/why/what 2015-10-27 08:54:44 xming, depends on board 2015-10-27 08:54:53 for wandboard, there's board specific u-boot image 2015-10-27 08:55:19 some u-boot images support multiple boards 2015-10-27 08:55:32 technically the relation ship is 2015-10-27 08:55:42 u-boot starts first, it does not know DT at all 2015-10-27 08:55:56 u-boot image needs to support the hardware it boots on 2015-10-27 08:56:01 and it's hardcoded for it 2015-10-27 08:56:09 it needs to be installed in board specific way too 2015-10-27 08:56:14 what u-boot does is. 2015-10-27 08:56:20 1. load kernel image 2015-10-27 08:56:23 2. load DT image 2015-10-27 08:56:28 3. load initramfs image 2015-10-27 08:56:46 4. boot to kernel image, and it gives as parameter the location for DT and initramfs images 2015-10-27 08:57:20 5. kernel boots, and parses DT image so it knows what CPU/peripherals are enabled and at what addresses 2015-10-27 08:57:32 uboot == BIOS + MBR boot load on x86 land ? 2015-10-27 08:57:41 plus passing DT 2015-10-27 08:58:09 basically yes 2015-10-27 08:58:17 fabled: thanks a lot 2015-10-27 08:58:36 I thought that DT solved the boot/init h/w issues too 2015-10-27 08:58:42 no 2015-10-27 08:58:44 but it doesn't, which makes sense 2015-10-27 08:58:46 DT is for kernel only 2015-10-27 08:58:56 in arm world 2015-10-27 08:59:08 in some other architectures that use same DT format, the BIOS supports it 2015-10-27 08:59:29 but with u-boot. DT is not much of help 2015-10-27 08:59:39 there's several reasons 2015-10-27 08:59:51 each board boots differently (boot loaded is loaded from different place) 2015-10-27 09:00:15 they usually need early init of RAM, and other core peripherals, and DT is not available at that time 2015-10-27 09:02:00 fabled: so thers is no garantee that Alpine's uboot will work on my board? 2015-10-27 09:02:25 we tested only wandboard so far. that i can guarantee to work. but not others. 2015-10-27 09:06:05 fabled: how does uboot find the kernel/DT/initramfs on the flash/emmc? by specific partition name/number? Is that a compile time option? 2015-10-27 09:06:14 compile time option 2015-10-27 09:06:23 hardcoded in u-boot by board type 2015-10-27 09:06:33 can be overridden with u-boot script 2015-10-27 09:10:34 do kernel, DT and initramfs have to be on 3 different partition, or can they be on the same partition, then I need to give the right address + offset? 2015-10-27 09:14:49 xming, it does not matter where they are, as long as u-boot can load them. for alpine we keep them on same /boot partition. 2015-10-27 09:15:07 u-boot handles the addresses/offsets internally 2015-10-27 09:16:32 ah uboot understand ext2/3/4 FS like x86 bootloaders 2015-10-27 09:17:41 xming, yes, if it's enabled in the config 2015-10-27 09:18:00 the default config is board-specific, but most enable ext* support 2015-10-27 09:18:14 fabled: thanks a lot, things are much clearer for me now 2015-10-27 09:19:09 now I just need an uboot for my board with alpine's tar.gz support, a way to do recpvery flash 2015-10-27 09:19:41 a 4.x kernel then I am all set :D 2015-10-27 09:39:33 my subscribe mail to alpine-devel was spam blocked. o.O 2015-10-27 09:44:39 spammer 2015-10-27 09:49:06 me? 2015-10-27 09:53:12 yeah you were blocked :p 2015-10-27 09:55:08 is there another way to put me on the list? 2015-10-27 10:04:19 ncopa: I still get intel PCH FIFO underrun errors with the latest mkinitfs version, is this a known bug? 2015-10-27 10:05:29 nmeum, that sounds like kernel driver bug 2015-10-27 10:06:29 well…I didn't get this error before the nlplug change and I only see that error in the mkinitfs…it doesn't appear again afterwards 2015-10-27 10:08:54 it can be 2 problems 2015-10-27 10:09:07 1) some netlink buffer problem 2015-10-27 10:09:25 2) something that always has been there, but was previously hidden 2015-10-27 10:10:03 nmeum: intel graphics? 2015-10-27 10:10:08 i think i have the same on my lappy 2015-10-27 10:10:14 yeah, intel graphics 2015-10-27 10:11:11 looks like this: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/40952?project=1 2015-10-27 10:12:47 interessting 2015-10-27 10:31:30 oh no.. /o\ 2015-10-27 10:31:50 i think armhf 3.2 is broke 2015-10-27 10:32:43 i don tknow if we can fix it 2015-10-27 10:33:12 phew... 2015-10-27 10:33:42 i realized that the repositories for armhf builder points to edge 2015-10-27 10:34:04 so i got scared 2015-10-27 10:34:18 that it may have gotten gcc-5.* 2015-10-27 10:34:32 phew... i was wrong 2015-10-27 10:34:41 its all ok 2015-10-27 10:34:55 :D 2015-10-27 10:35:14 the edge repo was commented with a # 2015-10-27 10:36:32 ACTION notices that algitbot shares the \o/ joy but not the /o\ sadness 2015-10-27 10:36:43 :) 2015-10-27 10:36:48 algitbot is a happybot 2015-10-27 10:37:38 algitbot: ^_^ 2015-10-27 10:37:52 nor is it Asian 2015-10-27 10:40:08 Do you guys compile packages with -O2 or -Os? 2015-10-27 10:40:22 usually. 2015-10-27 10:46:41 I think it's -Os 2015-10-27 10:46:51 for Alpine 2015-10-27 10:47:10 personally I use -O2 on my desktop 2015-10-27 10:48:30 we use -Os 2015-10-27 10:49:14 i think we have some exceptions like zlib, which is -O2 2015-10-27 10:49:49 my measurements are off then... brb recompiling everything with -Os >.> 2015-10-27 10:54:09 skarnet there is (at least on my build lxc) the file /etc/abuild.conf 2015-10-27 10:55:06 there are flags exportet, but could be overwriten with APKBUILD ones in packages 2015-10-27 10:57:20 thanks. It's just my own packages that enforce -O2 and lack flexibility, I need to fix that. 2015-10-27 11:28:39 I am looking at the initramfs-init for a good way to customize the system initialization but I don't see any way short of patching the script directly. Is that by design or just for lack of requirement? 2015-10-27 11:29:02 chris|, it's been lack of requirement. but we've recently talked about having some sort of hooks in initramfs 2015-10-27 11:29:09 patches are welcome 2015-10-27 11:29:25 we talked also lua based initramfs init script 2015-10-27 11:29:43 i think we now just want 3.3-stable out and will look at initramfs after that 2015-10-27 11:32:48 hooks would be great 2015-10-27 11:33:09 are there logs of that discussion by any chance? 2015-10-27 11:35:10 chris|: http://dev.alpinelinux.org/irclogs/ 2015-10-27 11:37:25 any chance you can narrow it down a bit? ;) 2015-10-27 11:39:34 sure 2015-10-27 11:39:36 apk add grep 2015-10-27 11:39:38 :p 2015-10-27 11:39:55 i dont know when this talk was 2015-10-27 11:41:48 hehe, okay, I'll give it a go 2015-10-27 11:41:53 a few days ago. 2015-10-27 11:42:01 some time last week 2015-10-27 11:49:59 okay, unless barely five sentences were spoken here last week, the logs seem somewhat incomplete 2015-10-27 11:54:12 chris|: http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2015-10-27 2015-10-27 11:58:10 found it, thanks 2015-10-27 12:08:13 chris|: initramfs init is under development currently 2015-10-27 12:08:38 we just implemented nlplug-findfs, a C app to find the root device 2015-10-27 12:09:04 the initramfs init script still need fix relocation of mounts 2015-10-27 12:10:00 current development are in the mkinitfs' nlplug-findfs branch: http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/?h=nlplug-findfs 2015-10-27 12:10:39 i am interestined in a solution where things are more plugable 2015-10-27 12:11:08 i have been thinking in the lines of just using debian/ubuntu's init 2015-10-27 12:11:17 and implement the tmpfs root as a hook 2015-10-27 12:11:44 but i am not sure the debian/ubuntu way is a good solution either 2015-10-27 12:11:56 there is dracut but it depends on bash and udev 2015-10-27 12:11:59 which is a no-go 2015-10-27 12:12:24 the latest idea was to use lua 2015-10-27 12:12:34 and i think that might be a good idea 2015-10-27 12:12:37 lua+C 2015-10-27 12:13:30 ncopa: can you please (when you get the time) tell me what kind of structure you need in variables again? 2015-10-27 12:13:45 variables? 2015-10-27 12:13:54 where? 2015-10-27 12:14:30 conf variables. I want to see if I can come up with something that would work in shell so you don't have to switch to lua. :) 2015-10-27 12:14:47 for initramfs ? 2015-10-27 12:15:01 Yes, but ah, I'm mixing stuff. The conf variables were for the installer. 2015-10-27 12:15:02 lua+C sounds intriguing 2015-10-27 12:15:21 For the initramfs... please please please don't switch to lua. 2015-10-27 12:15:49 ok? 2015-10-27 12:16:40 I am not familiar with dracut, but the way debian/ubuntu does it is to complex for my taste because of the implicit ordering 2015-10-27 12:16:42 I *can* make it faster without you depending on an interpreted language. 2015-10-27 12:17:20 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/tree/initramfs-init.in?h=nlplug-findfs 2015-10-27 12:17:35 we need to parse kernel boot opts from /proc/cmdline 2015-10-27 12:18:25 the current problem at hand is find all mounts in /prob/mounts and mount move them so they correspond with a given fstab 2015-10-27 12:18:59 i am pretty sure it is possible to implement it in shell 2015-10-27 12:19:01 awk 2015-10-27 12:19:05 and stuff 2015-10-27 12:19:22 but its clumsy 2015-10-27 12:19:29 i also thought of implement it in C 2015-10-27 12:20:07 but i think Lua is kind of good for this kind of job 2015-10-27 12:20:31 is it necessary for 3.3? Because if it's not, I'd suggest overhauling it all for 3.4 (maybe even doing most of the initramfs in C) 2015-10-27 12:20:44 we need mount move in 3.3 yes 2015-10-27 12:20:51 and yes, i want overhaul it for 3.4 2015-10-27 12:20:51 wait what's the objection to lua? 2015-10-27 12:21:07 that arrays start to count from 1 :) 2015-10-27 12:21:17 adds a dependency before even getting to init... 2015-10-27 12:21:45 if the question is bash or lua, then it will be lua 2015-10-27 12:22:08 but i agree, woudl be nice to avoid adding deps in there 2015-10-27 12:22:28 however, it might be possible that with lua + C, we might not even need busybox 2015-10-27 12:22:59 you'd get a lua interpreter as emergency shell :) 2015-10-27 12:23:25 yeah, um, I wouldn't throw busybox out like that 2015-10-27 12:23:30 we could also link to static liblua 2015-10-27 12:23:38 i know, its just a possibility 2015-10-27 12:23:47 we would probably want bb in there 2015-10-27 12:24:30 if you're willing to write bits of C for computational stuff, I don't understand why you'd want to use lua instead of sh for the glue 2015-10-27 12:25:27 because lua is good at the kind of stuff we need to do in there 2015-10-27 12:25:35 eg parse fstab 2015-10-27 12:25:46 parse /proc/cmdline 2015-10-27 12:26:00 (no it is not that easy to do that with shell= 2015-10-27 12:26:09 I see. 2015-10-27 12:26:18 its possible to do it in C 2015-10-27 12:26:41 but C is a bit clumsy there 2015-10-27 12:27:15 *cough* I have all the primitives to do it and you won't even see it if it's static *cough* 2015-10-27 12:27:36 libskarnet 2015-10-27 12:27:40 i need study it 2015-10-27 12:27:56 we are also interested in some plugin framework 2015-10-27 12:28:09 plugins in what sense? 2015-10-27 12:28:10 so you can extend and do stuff in init via hooks or similar 2015-10-27 12:28:22 in init or initramfs? 2015-10-27 12:28:27 initramfs 2015-10-27 12:28:40 where would the user store plugins? 2015-10-27 12:29:35 for example 2015-10-27 12:29:49 someone wants include some ethernet kernel drivers 2015-10-27 12:29:56 and mount root on nfs 2015-10-27 12:30:07 i dont mind people doing that 2015-10-27 12:30:16 but would prefer not hardcode support for it in initramfs 2015-10-27 12:30:28 thus functionality added as a plugin 2015-10-27 12:31:16 with lua, we could have the initramfs' init to be a C app, linked to static liblua 2015-10-27 12:31:24 have lua plugins 2015-10-27 12:32:03 same question: where would the plugins be stored 2015-10-27 12:32:18 user store plugins in /etc/ when generating the initramfs image the plugins are pulled in 2015-10-27 12:32:50 ah, ok, so it's, er, compile-time plugins 2015-10-27 12:32:56 yes 2015-10-27 12:33:02 well 2015-10-27 12:33:13 similar to what ubuntu/debian does now 2015-10-27 12:33:19 and i think even dracut does it 2015-10-27 12:33:20 then you don't need any dynamic stuff, you can do it all at initramfs generation time 2015-10-27 12:33:30 correct 2015-10-27 12:33:36 even arch does it 2015-10-27 12:33:41 yes 2015-10-27 12:33:46 a directory with executables works :P 2015-10-27 12:33:59 it probably does 2015-10-27 12:50:12 skarnet: if you feel for getting your hands dirty and help with the mkinitfs' initramfs init script, shell style 2015-10-27 12:50:25 then what we currently need in there 2015-10-27 12:50:58 is fix the relocate_mount 2015-10-27 12:52:12 problem: fstab says /dev/cdrom should be mounted on /media/cdrom 2015-10-27 12:52:32 the nlplug-findfs will get sr0 hotplug event 2015-10-27 12:52:35 run mdev 2015-10-27 12:52:49 which should create the /dev/cdrom -> /dev/sr0 symlink 2015-10-27 12:53:13 but nlplug-findfs will mount it as /dev/sr0 on /media/sr0 2015-10-27 12:53:55 the relocate_mount needs to figure out that the /dev/cdrom in the fstab is the same thing as the already mounted /dev/sr0 2015-10-27 12:54:10 and move the mountpoint to whatever the given fstab says 2015-10-27 12:54:39 it also need to handle if there is UUID=... or LABEL=... in the fstab 2015-10-27 12:55:25 wait 2015-10-27 12:55:52 is it simpler to detect that and relocate, or to do the right thing at mount time in the first place? 2015-10-27 12:56:39 not possible 2015-10-27 12:57:24 because the tarball containing the fstab with use config is found with nlplug-findfs 2015-10-27 12:57:46 nlplug-findfs will look on all found block devices (which it manages to mount) 2015-10-27 12:57:59 and when it finds an apkovl it will use it 2015-10-27 12:58:08 the apkvol might contains an fstab 2015-10-27 12:58:14 ew 2015-10-27 12:58:24 and if it does, then we need mount move it 2015-10-27 12:58:34 so we need to relocate according to the ovl fstab 2015-10-27 12:58:36 not the orig one? 2015-10-27 12:58:46 according the ovl fstab 2015-10-27 12:58:59 yeah, so that has to be done afterwards 2015-10-27 12:59:11 if there are no ovl fstab, then there might be an fstab provided from an .apk 2015-10-27 12:59:17 so it needs to be dome afterwards 2015-10-27 13:02:45 so parse the fstab, look for /dev/bar mounts where /dev/foo is in fstab and /dev/foo is a link to /dev/bar, and if there is one, move the /dev/bar mountpoint to where fstab says /dev/foo should be mounted 2015-10-27 13:12:00 Going to lunch, but I'll work on it afterwards. In the meantime please explain (or link a doc) how LABEL= and UUID= work. I haven't used fstab since those were added. (Yes, I'm a dinosaur.) 2015-10-27 13:18:19 http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/blkid.8.html 2015-10-27 13:19:21 blkid can find the LABEL, TYPE and UUID of a filesystem 2015-10-27 13:19:25 without mounting it 2015-10-27 13:20:02 so you can say that you want use filesystem with UUID=affa-daffa as your root 2015-10-27 13:20:54 then it will find the correct root file system, regardless if kernel calls it hda1, sda1, sdc1 /dev/cciss/c0d0p1 or mmc1p2 2015-10-27 13:21:56 the file system with UUID=affa-daffa is my root fs, i dont care what kernel driver is needed, i dont care what kernel calls it at all 2015-10-27 13:22:22 same with LABEL 2015-10-27 13:23:00 so you can say in your fstab: UUID=affa-daffa should be mounted on / as rw 2015-10-27 13:29:00 with blkid you can can also find out what type it is 2015-10-27 13:29:09 if it is ext4, xfs or whatever 2015-10-27 13:35:56 i'm setting up the build-3-3-armhf now 2015-10-27 13:36:00 its building the toolchain 2015-10-27 14:50:52 ncopa: what does the current relocate_mount() do incorrectly? 2015-10-27 14:51:00 i don tknow 2015-10-27 14:51:01 :) 2015-10-27 14:51:28 it just does not mount move the /dev/cdrom to /media/cdrom as i would expect 2015-10-27 14:51:40 ok. 2015-10-27 14:52:32 i have actually not even verified that the /dev/cdrom symlink is acutally created 2015-10-27 14:52:38 i just assume it is 2015-10-27 14:53:34 set -x? 2015-10-27 14:54:58 ncopa: I thought you were going to twit the alpine in js thingy 2015-10-27 14:56:47 i forgot 2015-10-27 14:56:48 will do 2015-10-27 14:57:18 ty :D 2015-10-27 14:57:46 when i tweet about alpinelinux 2015-10-27 14:57:56 should i use #alpinelinux or @alpinelinux? 2015-10-27 14:58:10 i suppose @alpinelinux is better 2015-10-27 14:58:11 Both! 2015-10-27 14:58:13 both :) 2015-10-27 14:59:53 I am a twitter noob, I suppose @ is user and # is just a tag? 2015-10-27 15:00:15 yes. 2015-10-27 15:01:49 twitter twit twat twut 2015-10-27 15:06:30 @i #i @dont #dont @want #want @type #type @words #words @double #double 2015-10-27 15:06:45 but thats probably what the twit generation does? 2015-10-27 15:07:20 tell @Twitter to add @# support for both an id and a hashtag :P 2015-10-27 15:08:14 maybe #@id ? 2015-10-27 15:08:24 i have better idea! 2015-10-27 15:08:30 !#@$%& 2015-10-27 15:08:34 :) 2015-10-27 15:08:46 !#@$%&keyword 2015-10-27 15:08:50 actually, !@#$%^&*() is how I swear in chat 2015-10-27 15:09:17 that would make me feel like I can't tweet without profanity 2015-10-27 15:09:31 lol 2015-10-27 15:09:49 :) 2015-10-27 15:11:08 I have an account since the beginning but seldom use it 2015-10-27 15:11:18 I have like maybe <10 twits 2015-10-27 15:11:25 never appealed to me 2015-10-27 15:11:40 ncopa, @foo means the @foo should read the message and that it's for him; #foo means it's about #foo 2015-10-27 15:11:50 neither did MSN/FB/G+/.... 2015-10-27 15:12:22 Ah a twitter guru 2015-10-27 15:12:48 :-O 2015-10-27 15:12:56 twitter advice from fabled 2015-10-27 15:13:08 fabled never stop surprise :) 2015-10-27 15:13:18 @ will send the msg to brazil 2015-10-27 15:13:35 i though <3 was for brazil? 2015-10-27 15:13:36 :) 2015-10-27 15:13:36 @foo is about users; #foo is about topic 2015-10-27 15:13:43 but yeah 2015-10-27 15:14:02 $ sends your tweet to the NSA, and % to China 2015-10-27 15:14:03 yeah, i got that but what if i want say something like: 2015-10-27 15:14:18 boot @alpinelinux in vm in browser: http://xming.github.io/alpine-v86/demo2/coldboot.html 2015-10-27 15:14:24 it is about alpinelinux 2015-10-27 15:14:33 then # 2015-10-27 15:14:39 that'd be # 2015-10-27 15:14:43 that should be # 2015-10-27 15:14:44 so i did wrong :-( 2015-10-27 15:14:46 as a topic 2015-10-27 15:14:50 retweet it 2015-10-27 15:14:58 how do i delete it? 2015-10-27 15:15:00 you can retweet yourself, nobody will notice 2015-10-27 15:15:11 don't delete, just retweet with #alpinelinux as a comment 2015-10-27 15:15:30 you just said it to alacerda :) 2015-10-27 15:16:11 apparently i cnanot retweet myself 2015-10-27 15:16:32 ok, I'll do it for you. 2015-10-27 15:16:36 my name?! 2015-10-27 15:16:40 what what? 2015-10-27 15:16:57 alacerda: check our twitter acc 2015-10-27 15:17:02 ncopa is talking to you 2015-10-27 15:17:06 i tweeted @alpinelinux 2015-10-27 15:17:26 there, all is well 2015-10-27 15:18:10 i purged the tweet 2015-10-27 15:18:35 so we retweeted /dev/null? 2015-10-27 15:18:40 yeah 2015-10-27 15:18:43 sigh. Make me look bad. 2015-10-27 15:18:58 thats better than me look bad :) 2015-10-27 15:19:05 i dont even have a photo 2015-10-27 15:19:12 so i look bad anyway... 2015-10-27 15:19:12 :) 2015-10-27 15:19:14 ACTION adds backdoors into relocate_mount() 2015-10-27 15:19:44 ACTION renames relocate_mount to backdoored_relocate_mount() for readability 2015-10-27 15:29:15 boot @alpinelinux in vm in browser -> translation: kick the user alpinelinux in a sandbox of your shinny blue Internet explorer icon 2015-10-27 15:30:29 it's 3.1? 2015-10-27 15:30:45 oh that would be awesome. render the vm as favicon :) 2015-10-27 15:31:09 I think it's 3.1, never updated it 2015-10-27 15:31:17 its still cool 2015-10-27 15:31:18 um, xming? 2015-10-27 15:31:34 ncopa: render the text in the console, char by char in favincon? 2015-10-27 15:31:56 you're giving everyone access to a machine behind a firewall, *with Internet access* 2015-10-27 15:32:05 not me 2015-10-27 15:32:08 this is.. unwise 2015-10-27 15:32:21 why? 2015-10-27 15:32:28 skarnet: the creator of v86 provides that 2015-10-27 15:33:18 ncopa: random idea - I could use that VM to mail child porn to the FBI 2015-10-27 15:34:06 FBI woudl go after you if you did 2015-10-27 15:34:13 it runs in your browser 2015-10-27 15:34:23 not the internet connection 2015-10-27 15:34:32 isn't it emulated in your browser 2015-10-27 15:34:32 hmwait 2015-10-27 15:34:37 it'd be coming from your ip 2015-10-27 15:34:45 that goes through ws socket of the v86 project 2015-10-27 15:34:46 Geez I need sleep. 2015-10-27 15:34:54 forget I said anything. 2015-10-27 15:35:04 it's NATed, I bet he logs 2015-10-27 15:35:15 oh hm 2015-10-27 15:35:18 those "servers in the browsers" completely mess up with my expectations 2015-10-27 15:35:18 I mean either way 2015-10-27 15:35:35 its a real virtual machine implemented in javascript 2015-10-27 15:35:39 yeah. 2015-10-27 15:35:41 I think the fbi is familiar with at least open proxies 2015-10-27 15:36:28 it *looks* server-side, but it's client-side. 2015-10-27 15:36:48 i think its kinda cool 2015-10-27 15:37:03 skarnet: I must say it's fast enough to give that impression 2015-10-27 15:37:21 i wonder what happens when people click on that on their phones :) 2015-10-27 15:37:26 if you forget that JS is single-threaded and an OS over it is an incredibly ugly hack, yes, it's cool 2015-10-27 15:38:07 ncopa: some say it runs well on iPads 2015-10-27 15:38:41 its slimmed down kernel though 2015-10-27 15:38:42 can abuild sanely build something that doesn't have release tarballs 2015-10-27 15:39:05 the real alpine kernel took 7mins to boot or so here 2015-10-27 15:39:09 yeah I had to cheat :p 2015-10-27 15:39:14 ammunta: not really 2015-10-27 15:39:38 this one is even faster: http://bellard.org/jslinux/ 2015-10-27 15:40:14 bellard was the orig author 2015-10-27 15:40:28 v86 has network support, VGA (yes X11) 2015-10-27 15:41:12 and 2.6 kernel is way faster 2015-10-27 15:41:21 i think the idea is so stupid that it becomes cool :) 2015-10-27 15:41:36 ammunta: you can take a snapshot an then have abuild build that 2015-10-27 15:42:19 the general idea is that if upstream does not make releases, and maintain that, why should we do that? 2015-10-27 15:42:45 if we end up maintain snapshots, then is it basically us who make releases for upstream 2015-10-27 15:43:00 and we end up maintain a "stable" snapshot for it 2015-10-27 15:43:00 well even if I just build apks for local use 2015-10-27 15:43:08 right 2015-10-27 15:43:13 that is valid usecase 2015-10-27 15:43:13 fastest linux in js I know of is this one http://s-macke.github.io/jor1k/demos/main.htm 2015-10-27 15:43:29 we did play with the idea of volatile packages 2015-10-27 15:43:35 I'd rather do that than keep track of things all over my fs 2015-10-27 15:43:48 but never implemented it 2015-10-27 15:44:16 xming: I think jslinux is faster than jor1k 2015-10-27 15:44:19 which is actually the best way to compile pkgs for openrick1k 2015-10-27 15:45:07 but I may be wrong 2015-10-27 15:45:16 root 2015-10-27 15:45:16 skarnet: bellard runs kernel 2.6 and jor1k kernel 4.1 2015-10-27 15:45:23 mt, wrong window XD 2015-10-27 15:45:32 hi there :) 2015-10-27 15:46:08 $ gcc -v 2015-10-27 15:46:15 gcc version 4.9.1 (GCC) 2015-10-27 15:46:33 pretty insane to run gcc in the browser 2015-10-27 15:48:38 $ time gcc hello.c 2015-10-27 15:48:38 real 0m 3.47s 2015-10-27 15:48:40 :D 2015-10-27 15:48:48 that's ... long 2015-10-27 15:48:56 :&& 2015-10-27 15:49:43 that's just bearable 2015-10-27 15:49:58 for hello world, I assume 2015-10-27 15:50:24 I saw a university uses it for C course 2015-10-27 15:51:31 skarnet: https://github.com/s-macke/jor1k/wiki/Benchmark-with-other-emulators 2015-10-27 15:52:29 oh jslinux has a nice speed increasesince last year 2015-10-27 15:53:24 yeah 2015-10-27 15:53:51 there are fs ops though 2015-10-27 15:54:22 it would be nice to have timings on pure CPU hogs, because I don't trust emulated FSs 2015-10-27 15:55:04 (and the jor1k FS is buggy) 2015-10-27 15:58:39 on jslinux 2015-10-27 15:58:51 # time gcc hello.c 2015-10-27 15:58:51 real 0m 53.86s 2015-10-27 16:00:56 second run is much faster, js JIT working 2015-10-27 16:00:58 # time gcc hello.c 2015-10-27 16:00:58 real 0m 5.87s 2015-10-27 16:03:56 cool, now we only need build qemu in there... 2015-10-27 16:05:14 VM in qemu in jor1k in a browser in a VM in qemu? 2015-10-27 16:05:27 (on a VPS on Xen) 2015-10-27 16:05:50 then we could start sell cloud computing 2015-10-27 16:05:56 from our browsers 2015-10-27 16:06:10 https://xkcd.com/908/ 2015-10-27 16:06:16 ok gotta go 2015-10-27 16:06:17 see u 2015-10-27 16:53:20 skarnet: quick s6-rc question if I may: can a service declare itself as a dependency of another service or as part of a bundle? 2015-10-27 16:58:03 nope, dependencies only go one way 2015-10-27 16:59:02 that's so the information is centralized in one place - if, for instance, services could declare themselves as part of a bundle, you couldn't know what's in the bundle without scanning the whole source 2015-10-27 16:59:09 (or compiling it, ofc) 2015-10-27 16:59:33 ACTION stares blankly at algitbot 2015-10-27 16:59:44 it just does that whenever someone mentiones compiling 2015-10-27 16:59:55 I know \o/ 2015-10-27 17:00:28 \o/ 2015-10-27 17:18:36 algitbot: go re-compile yourself 2015-10-27 17:35:31 I see, good thing it's easily scriptable 2015-10-27 17:44:08 wait is lua one of those languages where you can shoot yourself with global and not even get a warning 2015-10-27 17:47:10 depends on what you mean by that, but possibly yes 2015-10-27 18:11:03 http://luaposix.github.io/luaposix/modules/posix.unistd.html#execp wait 2015-10-27 18:11:05 what 2015-10-27 18:11:14 ???? 2015-10-27 18:12:17 I don't understand the question :) 2015-10-27 18:16:20 that's not what it does 2015-10-27 18:16:24 it does execvp 2015-10-27 18:16:33 the doc is not correct by any stretch of the imagination 2015-10-27 20:19:06 wait I'm a bit unclear on why some of the core gems are split out of the ruby package 2015-10-28 07:47:50 hum 2015-10-28 07:47:57 we shoudl probably upgrade linux-headers 2015-10-28 09:19:42 im working on busybox 1.24 2015-10-28 09:19:52 do we need/want mount -T 2015-10-28 09:19:58 i think not? 2015-10-28 09:20:30 i2cget? 2015-10-28 09:20:42 Read from I2C/SMBus chip registers. 2015-10-28 09:23:02 ncopa, i2c* might be useful; especially on arm 2015-10-28 09:23:12 ok 2015-10-28 09:23:30 is it useful from busybox or is apk add i2c-tools ok? 2015-10-28 09:23:50 i suppose i2c-tools is enough fornow 2015-10-28 09:23:52 i mean is it worth always adding it 2015-10-28 09:24:47 how is the state of toybox, is it a good replacement for bb? 2015-10-28 09:25:15 dont know 2015-10-28 09:25:28 it may become a good replacement 2015-10-28 09:25:32 but i dont think it currently is 2015-10-28 09:26:09 http://landley.net/toybox/status.html 2015-10-28 09:26:51 does it already have lua build in? 2015-10-28 09:26:58 lol 2015-10-28 09:48:25 i will push busybox 1.24.1 soonish 2015-10-28 09:52:40 anyone else using uksm patch for the kernel? I've been using it for few years and works pretty well 2015-10-28 09:54:36 never used it 2015-10-28 09:54:53 ok 2015-10-28 09:54:57 here comes busybox 1.24 2015-10-28 09:55:00 watch out for breakages 2015-10-28 09:55:17 it saves about 10% RAM usage on my desktop 2015-10-28 09:55:53 for host with lxc containers with similar images it could be more 2015-10-28 10:00:21 does it work with pax? 2015-10-28 10:06:26 no idea :( 2015-10-28 10:06:53 hmm maybe https://github.com/init6/init_6/wiki/geek-sources 2015-10-28 10:08:46 he made a mix with pax/grsec and uksm 2015-10-28 10:09:38 don't know it one can mix and match 2015-10-28 10:11:46 will not have time look at it now though 2015-10-28 10:13:11 oh np, that wasn't my intention, was just rebasing uksm and thought I would mention it here 2015-10-28 10:14:01 what's the alpine policy about /bin vs. /usr/bin? should all "vital" binaries be in /bin, or is there virtually no difference? 2015-10-28 10:15:16 (same question wrt /lib vs. /usr/lib. I tend to think /usr/lib should be for .a from -dev packages and /lib for .so, but YMMV) 2015-10-28 10:16:02 skarnet: current policy is that "vital" binaries in /bin /lib 2015-10-28 10:16:18 anything that is needed before the /etc/init.d/localmount 2015-10-28 10:16:39 does not work if eudev is in use 2015-10-28 10:17:27 the move to /usr/bin and /usr/lib was because it was not possible to boot a system without /usr/share/ database for hardware database 2015-10-28 10:17:52 apparently eudev needs the hardware database to handle kernel events 2015-10-28 10:18:11 ok. If my... friend is working on some (post-3.3) low-level (init) scripts, can he move the binaries he needs from /usr/bin to /bin then? 2015-10-28 10:18:43 either that or you friend will have to convince us that require /usr is a good idea 2015-10-28 10:19:09 he definitely doesn't like requiring /usr :) 2015-10-28 10:19:26 booting got so complicated with dynamic devs, hotplugging, dm/lvm/encryption/.... sigh 2015-10-28 10:19:43 then moving needed stuff to /bin /sbin /lib is required 2015-10-28 10:19:52 ncopa: of course, that was implicit 2015-10-28 10:20:07 ACTION still remembers the solaris 2.5/2.6 days 2015-10-28 10:20:29 fabled, i've been talking with clandmeter about quagga-nhrp. Is multicast supported now? 2015-10-28 10:20:35 xming: you mean the days where I could be root on the entire network by exploiting NFS bugs? yeah, good times. :P 2015-10-28 10:21:33 can be used OSPF with quagga-nhrp? 2015-10-28 10:22:04 skarnet: not only NFS :D 2015-10-28 10:22:05 ncopa: bb 1.24.1 has uevent ! 2015-10-28 10:22:16 no, i disabled it 2015-10-28 10:22:17 :) 2015-10-28 10:22:27 :) 2015-10-28 10:23:26 mknod FTW, no need for udev 2015-10-28 10:24:11 devtmpfs FTW, no need for mknod 2015-10-28 10:24:13 :) 2015-10-28 10:24:26 I want to work on the "netlink-enabled, no-forking mdev" more, but that will be later 2015-10-28 10:24:31 are there any non non-sense distro like Alpine but use glibc? 2015-10-28 10:24:43 xming: void 2015-10-28 10:24:46 xming: no non-sense distros don't use glibc 2015-10-28 10:24:59 void linux is probably the closest you get 2015-10-28 10:25:22 skarnet: I kind of stuck with glibc for my desktop 2015-10-28 10:25:40 s/desktop/nvidia card/ 2015-10-28 10:25:52 thats why we love intel 2015-10-28 10:27:19 radeon here with OSS driver, but some java/non OSS games/ ... 2015-10-28 10:27:49 non-OSS games is a valid reason for glibc imho 2015-10-28 10:27:53 xming: is that amd driver any good? 2015-10-28 10:28:15 the only thing i am missing is support for netflix 2015-10-28 10:28:24 clandmeter: yes, been using it for 5+ years, last 2 years with dual 7950s 2015-10-28 10:28:47 running multi seat setup 2015-10-28 10:28:48 the day netflix work with musl libc i'll throw the ubuntu box out the window 2015-10-28 10:29:04 xming: hasnt it been recently imrpoved (i mean last 2-3 years) 2015-10-28 10:29:10 for hw ofloading 2015-10-28 10:29:23 like, cat ubuntu | window 2015-10-28 10:29:53 clandmeter: a lot, vdpau h/w decoding, OpenGL 4.x, still lacking good OpenCL, ogl speed is on par with Catalyst 2015-10-28 10:30:27 xming: i only played with intel, and have been satisfied. 2015-10-28 10:30:43 dont see much amd gfx in hw i have. 2015-10-28 10:30:52 clandmeter: my intel CPU doesn't have GPU 2015-10-28 10:30:57 but i prefer intel cpu's anyway :) 2015-10-28 10:31:16 xming: ok, not many dont have it. 2015-10-28 10:31:40 i think only the highend right? 2015-10-28 10:31:45 clandmeter: old x58 xeon 5660 2015-10-28 10:31:53 ah ok 2015-10-28 10:32:03 6 cores :D 2015-10-28 10:32:12 i dont play games, so no need for highend 2015-10-28 10:32:14 got it cheap 300 euro board + RAM + CPU 2015-10-28 10:32:49 but i have a real expensive one at home, because we had one around not used (engineering sample :)) 2015-10-28 10:33:00 I play some old games and I need good android emulator 2015-10-28 10:33:27 did anyone got lucky with intel phi - low price offer 2015-10-28 10:34:00 genymotion (binary) with accell OpenGL for my android gaming fix :D 2015-10-28 10:37:56 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgzNjY 2015-10-28 10:47:28 rebooting brb 2015-10-28 10:58:24 alacerda: what do you think of moving mate-* and deps to community? 2015-10-28 10:58:39 to reduce future maintenance work 2015-10-28 10:59:23 ncopa, I am ok with that 2015-10-28 10:59:35 alacerda: do you have time to do it? 2015-10-28 11:00:46 ncopa, these days I am under a ton of "snow" (snow in Brazil - funny) 2015-10-28 11:00:56 ok 2015-10-28 11:00:57 np 2015-10-28 11:00:58 I cant do that until the next week 2015-10-28 11:01:02 np 2015-10-28 11:01:22 sounds like unhealthy snow 2015-10-28 11:01:35 Do you think I could do that next week or is it urgent? 2015-10-28 11:01:42 not really urgent 2015-10-28 11:04:42 fcolista, no, no multicast in quagga-nhrp yet 2015-10-28 11:08:40 fabled: you said i could also use OSPF for routing 2015-10-28 11:57:53 i'm taking build-3-2-x86 offline for a few mins 2015-10-28 12:09:25 build-3-2-x86 is back 2015-10-28 12:09:34 im taking down build-3-2-x86_64 2015-10-28 12:10:13 hey :) 2015-10-28 12:10:38 i have a problem pinging special usecase domains like .wien 2015-10-28 12:10:42 or .nyc 2015-10-28 12:10:56 this seams like a bosybox problem 2015-10-28 12:11:04 does dns resolve? 2015-10-28 12:11:31 yes, the host command works 2015-10-28 12:11:52 ping foobar.wien 2015-10-28 12:11:53 ping: bad address 'foobar.wien' 2015-10-28 12:14:08 ; <<>> DiG 9.10.3 <<>> foobar.wien 2015-10-28 12:14:08 ;; global options: +cmd 2015-10-28 12:14:08 ;; Got answer: 2015-10-28 12:14:08 ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 36367 2015-10-28 12:14:08 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1 2015-10-28 12:14:24 dns does not seem to exist 2015-10-28 12:15:07 nic.wien 2015-10-28 12:16:38 does it work for you? 2015-10-28 12:16:51 hmm, maybe i have to reboot this thing here after the busybox update 2015-10-28 12:22:38 Hey. Do i have to subscribe to alpine-aports mailing list before sending a patch or does it work without? 2015-10-28 12:24:30 you don't have to subscribe 2015-10-28 12:26:01 leo-unglaub: nic.wien resolves atleast 2015-10-28 12:26:02 subscribing leads to block you because you send spam anyway 2015-10-28 12:26:03 SCNR 2015-10-28 12:26:30 I sent in a patch yesterday via git send-email but it doesnt appear in http://lists.alpinelinux.org/alpine-aports/201510bydate.html 2015-10-28 12:26:39 danilobuerger: or you can use github 2015-10-28 12:27:04 danilobuerger: you can also do: git format-patch -1 --stdout | tpaste 2015-10-28 12:27:08 and paste the url here 2015-10-28 12:29:16 tpaste? 2015-10-28 12:29:22 apk add sprunge 2015-10-28 12:29:38 its a simple wrapper script for http://tpaste.us 2015-10-28 12:29:45 ah ok, never heard of it 2015-10-28 12:29:54 so which one is preferred, github or tpaste? 2015-10-28 12:30:20 if its a single trivial patch and we are available here, then pasting an url here is simple 2015-10-28 12:30:34 github will likely easier get forgotten 2015-10-28 12:30:56 if it is a long list of patches, then github is better 2015-10-28 12:31:07 as then can we git pull everything in one shot 2015-10-28 12:31:34 if there are uncertainity or if you want feedback, then alpine-aports is probably better 2015-10-28 12:32:03 only a small new package... link here: http://tpaste.us/2Lm0 2015-10-28 12:32:30 yeah, i still dont know why my email didnt make it to the list... :-( 2015-10-28 12:33:35 + /usr/bin/cmake . || return 1 2015-10-28 12:33:35 + /usr/bin/make || return 1 2015-10-28 12:33:43 why absolute path? 2015-10-28 12:33:50 "a valid init for containers", nope 2015-10-28 12:34:01 not valid: doesn't respawn any process if they die :P 2015-10-28 12:34:20 skarnet: his words not mine, you are the author of s6 right? 2015-10-28 12:34:26 he is :) 2015-10-28 12:34:41 so lets call it "a tiny but invalid init" :) 2015-10-28 12:34:45 XD 2015-10-28 12:35:00 danilobuerger: could you please remove the /usr/bin/ from there 2015-10-28 12:35:04 git commit --amend 2015-10-28 12:35:09 and post new url 2015-10-28 12:35:15 ncopa: no reason for the absolute path 2015-10-28 12:35:19 + /usr/bin/install -D -m755 tini "$pkgdir"/usr/bin/tini || return 1 2015-10-28 12:35:19 sure i will amend it 2015-10-28 12:35:24 yes that too ;) 2015-10-28 12:35:44 export CFLAGS="-DPR_SET_CHILD_SUBREAPER=36 -DPR_GET_CHILD_SUBREAPER=37" 2015-10-28 12:35:46 whats that? 2015-10-28 12:36:17 ACTION per the authors build instructions https://github.com/krallin/tini#building-tini 2015-10-28 12:36:45 ok 2015-10-28 12:37:40 ncopa: anything else except the absolute paths before i amend? 2015-10-28 12:38:12 no, look good otherwise 2015-10-28 12:38:25 is this your first patch? 2015-10-28 12:38:41 for aports 2015-10-28 12:38:47 yes 2015-10-28 12:38:51 good job 2015-10-28 12:38:58 first patch to alpine in general 2015-10-28 12:39:09 ty 2015-10-28 12:39:11 i hope not last ;) 2015-10-28 12:40:02 i hope so too, apk is really nice.. some trouble with musl vs glibc, but nothing too weird 2015-10-28 12:41:22 ncopa: btw. any chance to get the division by zero fix for abuild accepted? The error message is irritating :) 2015-10-28 12:42:16 ofc 2015-10-28 12:42:23 i though i had it fixed 2015-10-28 12:42:55 I sent a patch to alpine-devel but didn't see any response 2015-10-28 12:42:55 ncopa here is the amended patch http://tpaste.us/GZjZ 2015-10-28 12:45:02 so the fastest workflow to get a patch accepted is to paste it somewhere and post the link here? 2015-10-28 12:45:22 (reviewed, at least, I mean) 2015-10-28 12:45:28 fastest yes 2015-10-28 12:45:36 but sometimes we forget. 2015-10-28 12:46:18 so 1. post the patch, 2. paste the link here, 3. be annoying enough that people don't forget 2015-10-28 12:46:54 yeah, that's about it, but 3. can also apply to list / patchwork patches 2015-10-28 12:47:02 :) 2015-10-28 12:47:44 most of us are almost human 2015-10-28 12:48:21 almost 2015-10-28 12:49:02 algitbot needs write access to the repo, and a backdoor 2015-10-28 12:49:17 algitbot, sudo commit my patch 2015-10-28 12:49:42 +1 2015-10-28 12:49:47 ### a note from infra, please do *not* use nl.alpinelinux.org for init sync. ### 2015-10-28 12:51:11 you can use for instance http://mirror.leaseweb.net which support rsync 2015-10-28 12:58:14 respawning process is nice to have, but I still not very kin to have that done by init by default 2015-10-28 12:58:23 skarnet: accepting patch via tpaste is only a "first patch is free" offer ;) 2015-10-28 12:58:30 in future they are ignored 2015-10-28 12:58:32 :) 2015-10-28 12:58:42 ncopa: I need to choose a good one then :) 2015-10-28 12:58:43 or 1 euro per patch 2015-10-28 12:58:53 xming: that's not what I meant. 2015-10-28 12:59:02 seriously 2015-10-28 12:59:13 if a patch get stuck in patchwork 2015-10-28 12:59:23 xming: the thing is, if init doesn't respawn anything, you can easily brick your box by, for instance, kill -9 -1 2015-10-28 12:59:25 and no response, then it probably failed for some reason 2015-10-28 12:59:40 skarnet: the use case of tini is quite different to s6 i think 2015-10-28 12:59:54 chris|: re abuild patch 2015-10-28 12:59:59 doing both patchwork and irc is ok, patchwork should auto accept it when commited (as is_ 2015-10-28 13:00:02 ) 2015-10-28 13:00:05 i am not sure when its needed 2015-10-28 13:00:08 it's not about s6, it's about being an init. sysvinit and busybox init respawn gettys for this reason 2015-10-28 13:00:15 how can i reproduce the problem it solves 2015-10-28 13:01:07 chris|: i have a feeling that the problem can be solve with fewer lines of code 2015-10-28 13:02:42 ncopa: when you build a metapackage (as in a package that does nothing but create $pkgdir), that function gets called with 0 which will cause the loop to run until i == 0 => y = 0/0 => error 2015-10-28 13:03:13 skarnet but that depends on your definition of an init ;-) 2015-10-28 13:03:50 chris|: makes sense 2015-10-28 13:04:26 the fix is probably equivalent to for(i=5; y < 1 && i > 0; i--) 2015-10-28 13:04:48 but I don't enjoy awk so I always opt for the simplest choice ;) 2015-10-28 13:04:48 thats what i was thinking of 2015-10-28 13:05:15 chris|: can you please rebase the patch with the && i > 0 2015-10-28 13:05:26 and tpaste it 2015-10-28 13:05:31 and i'll apply it 2015-10-28 13:05:52 danilobuerger: it's certainly easier to recover a bricked container than a bricked real machine, true - but it's still better to do the right thing :P 2015-10-28 13:05:56 apologies if I'm late to the party. Just updated and upgraded edge and nice new nlplug-findfs appears to be trying to do stuff I don't about. What gives? 2015-10-28 13:06:12 chris|: write in commit message, fix division by zeron when input is 0 2015-10-28 13:06:38 ScrumpyJack: what it tries to do? 2015-10-28 13:06:43 find your root files system? 2015-10-28 13:07:03 does it? 2015-10-28 13:07:24 skarnet in the world of containers, i personally, dont want the process inside the container to restart, but i want the container itself to restart. AWS ECS does that automatically for services for instance. 2015-10-28 13:07:34 ncopa thanks for the commit 2015-10-28 13:08:20 danilobuerger: that's not what I meant; PM me if you want to discuss it, to avoid spamming the chan. 2015-10-28 13:08:48 sure ;-) 2015-10-28 13:09:20 ok, cool. so why do i need nlplug-findfs? 2015-10-28 13:12:47 and why have i got 16 RAM disk devices? 2015-10-28 13:24:33 ScrumpyJack: nlplug-findfs is just a faster implementation of what was previously done in initramfs in shell 2015-10-28 13:24:51 well, at least bits of it 2015-10-28 13:25:43 and 16 ramdisks probably just come from the kernel config 2015-10-28 13:26:58 for posterity: I retract my statement, tini is indeed a valid process 1 for containers. (but *only* containers) 2015-10-28 13:27:28 tini? who is she? 2015-10-28 13:27:48 ScrumpyJack haha ;) 2015-10-28 13:28:22 skarnet: nlplug-findfs is failing for me 2015-10-28 13:28:46 what does it do that you don't want? 2015-10-28 13:29:04 failing, as in it errors 2015-10-28 13:29:23 pastebin the error messages? 2015-10-28 13:29:53 how do busybox symlinks get set up in initramfs, if at all? 2015-10-28 13:30:30 there is a nlplug-findfs -p /sbin/mdev in the init shell script 2015-10-28 13:30:46 does it use applets in initramfs? 2015-10-28 13:30:47 i take it /sbin/mdev is busybox mdev? 2015-10-28 13:31:29 but how does the link get set up? it's not in the initramfs cpio 2015-10-28 13:32:29 /bin/busybox --install -s <- is that it? 2015-10-28 13:33:00 yes 2015-10-28 13:34:27 i'll have to reboot to check the error, but i think mdev was missing 2015-10-28 13:34:48 rebooting 2015-10-28 13:42:23 ScrumpyJack: yes i know it displays errors, but does it work? 2015-10-28 13:42:26 does it boot up? 2015-10-28 13:42:41 oh yes, it boot 2015-10-28 13:42:42 i likely had errors previously too, but they were just hidden 2015-10-28 13:42:53 it probably also boot a bit faster 2015-10-28 13:42:59 my guess ~1 sec faster 2015-10-28 13:43:02 i can't tell 2015-10-28 13:43:12 i really don't care about boot speed :) 2015-10-28 13:43:55 nlplug-findfs will help us find the device, regardless if it is on isohybrid, ext4 image, usb disk or whatever 2015-10-28 13:44:06 without needing edit the boot command line 2015-10-28 13:44:45 that way we can use same syslinux.cfg for both cdrom image and usb image 2015-10-28 13:44:47 I misread the error, it's not mdev it can't find, it's mdadm it cant find, and lvm 2015-10-28 13:45:01 obviously not available yet 2015-10-28 13:45:40 is your rootfs on lvm/mdadm? 2015-10-28 13:45:59 yip 2015-10-28 13:46:31 and does it boot? 2015-10-28 13:46:34 yip 2015-10-28 13:47:24 so the problem is only that it displays errors when it should been quiet? 2015-10-28 13:48:03 hmm, let me check 2015-10-28 13:48:31 can you make a photo of the error message or similar 2015-10-28 13:48:36 and email it to me? 2015-10-28 13:48:47 my laptop has root on lvm 2015-10-28 13:49:00 hang on, i've got other problems 2015-10-28 13:49:07 davice names 2015-10-28 13:49:26 my work desktop has root on lvm on mdadm 2015-10-28 13:49:29 and both works for me 2015-10-28 13:50:07 actually, i was wrong (i forgot) 2015-10-28 13:50:34 boot/root is not on md or lvm 2015-10-28 13:50:42 s/is/are 2015-10-28 13:51:12 but you have some other md or lvm partition 2015-10-28 13:51:14 ok 2015-10-28 13:51:16 that makes sense 2015-10-28 13:51:41 so, /home is on 3 disks in raid 5 md ... 2015-10-28 13:52:50 nlplug-findfs finds block device and tries to start md 2015-10-28 13:52:55 but fails 2015-10-28 13:53:00 lvm is on an external disk only 2015-10-28 13:53:18 probably due to mdadm not even being included in the initramfs 2015-10-28 13:54:46 LUKS is on top of md raid5 2015-10-28 13:54:47 hmm. playing with apk-tools... is it correct that the return in here http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/apk-tools/tree/src/database.c#n1709 is not really cared for here http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/apk-tools/tree/src/commit.c#n310 ? 2015-10-28 13:55:25 ACTION replaced apk_world_file_tmp with '/dev/full' to see what happens 2015-10-28 13:55:36 ncopa: how does nlplug-findfs know that the block device is md? 2015-10-28 13:56:00 ScrumpyJack: libblkid says it found a raid member 2015-10-28 13:56:10 so it tries to start it up 2015-10-28 13:56:20 ok 2015-10-28 13:56:29 i think we need to 2015-10-28 13:56:34 i mean 2015-10-28 13:56:41 mkinitfs has support for "features" 2015-10-28 13:56:54 would it be silly to add md support to the initramfs? 2015-10-28 13:57:06 raid, lvm and cryptroot are features 2015-10-28 13:57:11 we already have support for it 2015-10-28 13:57:30 the problem is that you have raid device but not for root 2015-10-28 13:57:47 so your initmrafs does not need to care about raid or lvm at all 2015-10-28 13:58:29 but autodetection can't know that 2015-10-28 13:58:34 so you need to exclude devices from the blkid? 2015-10-28 13:58:34 correct 2015-10-28 13:58:56 however, you will not add mdadm to initramfsimage unless you enable that "feature" 2015-10-28 13:59:19 so i think, only try to actually start the raid if the raid "feature" is enabled 2015-10-28 13:59:29 well yes XD 2015-10-28 13:59:30 same with lvm and cryptroot 2015-10-28 13:59:51 currently it tries to start it regardless 2015-10-28 14:00:06 yeah, it needs to be guarded by the config 2015-10-28 14:00:18 but since the "feature" was not enabled, then it just thorws an error 2015-10-28 14:00:26 and ignores it 2015-10-28 14:00:41 we could also make it ignore /sbin/mdadm not found errors 2015-10-28 14:01:02 and use that as a way to tell initramfs that the feature was not enabled 2015-10-28 14:01:22 no, because the error could have another cause 2015-10-28 14:01:28 (this kind of things shoudl be dealth with in plugins/hooks imho) 2015-10-28 14:01:31 better to save the config in a small file 2015-10-28 14:01:38 and included it in initramfs 2015-10-28 14:01:41 yes 2015-10-28 14:05:39 at what stage and how does blkid get called or libblkid ? i can't see in initramfs 2015-10-28 14:05:55 i see the libs 2015-10-28 14:07:57 init: http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/tree/initramfs-init.in?h=nlplug-findfs 2015-10-28 14:08:05 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/mkinitfs/tree/nlplug-findfs.c?h=nlplug-findfs 2015-10-28 14:08:45 ncopa: sorry, connection issues. http://tpaste.us/3ly5 2015-10-28 14:08:58 ScrumpyJack: its only cosmetic 2015-10-28 14:09:11 heh. of course. nlplug-findfs 2015-10-28 14:09:48 chris|: should it not be && i > 0? 2015-10-28 14:11:25 ncopa: no, my explanation was wrong, the issue is not i == 0, it is i <= -1075 (roughly), because 2**(-1075) is close enough to zero 2015-10-28 14:12:12 does not make sense 2015-10-28 14:12:17 we dont want it iterate 1000 times 2015-10-28 14:12:31 true, but we did 2015-10-28 14:13:06 because $1 == 0 caused y to never fulfill y >= 1 2015-10-28 14:13:14 are you sure it happens when package is empty? 2015-10-28 14:13:15 ok 2015-10-28 14:13:29 so the loop went on applying i-- until -1075 was reached 2015-10-28 14:13:46 i am not able to reproduce still 2015-10-28 14:14:01 do you have a test APKBUILD? 2015-10-28 14:14:45 are you sure problem is that $1 == 0? 2015-10-28 14:15:41 try this: http://tpaste.us/GdP8 2015-10-28 14:16:59 this reproduces it for me: http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/APKBUILD_meta:Meta 2015-10-28 14:18:01 what filesystem is it? 2015-10-28 14:18:42 what filesystem do you have your aports on? 2015-10-28 14:18:44 ext4? 2015-10-28 14:18:49 here it reports 4k use 2015-10-28 14:19:11 btrfs 2015-10-28 14:19:15 ok 2015-10-28 14:19:17 thats why 2015-10-28 14:19:24 thats why i cannot reproduce 2015-10-28 14:19:42 in any case the function is broken, but your patch also works 2015-10-28 14:20:44 yes its broken 2015-10-28 14:29:45 chris|: I'm gonna push this: http://tpaste.us/241j 2015-10-28 14:29:47 in your name 2015-10-28 14:30:39 sure, go ahead, don't worry about the name though 2015-10-28 14:35:02 pushed, thanks! 2015-10-28 14:35:23 my pleasure 2015-10-28 16:00:28 are there any pending abuild patches that i have forgotten? 2015-10-28 16:14:17 hum 2015-10-28 16:14:26 bug in busybxo ash i think 2015-10-28 16:14:33 musl does not build 2015-10-28 16:14:40 ./configure: line 50: syntax error: unexpected "}" 2015-10-28 16:18:36 ouch 2015-10-28 18:14:20 running alpine 3.2 updated to latest, I'm getting a mini_httpd crash when I try to use ACF: 2015-10-28 18:14:23 Oct 28 18:13:16 alpine25 kern.err kernel: [8048017.875210] PAX: From 10.252.15.57: execution attempt in: , 5398c000-5398e000 5398c000 2015-10-28 18:14:23 Oct 28 18:13:16 alpine25 kern.err kernel: [8048017.876540] PAX: terminating task: /usr/sbin/mini_httpd(mini_httpd):4792, uid/euid: 65534/65534, PC: 5398c088, SP: 5f51ce5c 2015-10-28 18:14:23 Oct 28 18:13:16 alpine25 kern.err kernel: [8048017.876552] PAX: bytes at PC: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 c8 a7 89 53 c8 a7 89 53 00 00 00 00 2015-10-28 18:14:23 Oct 28 18:13:16 alpine25 kern.err kernel: [8048017.876596] PAX: bytes at SP-4: 00000000 5394cbea 5389a7b0 00000000 00000000 5389a840 5389a7b0 13e3c41f 13e3c3e2 5394cc5c 5389a7b0 13e48980 13e48ac0 13e39094 5389a7b0 13e3c41f 5394cc2b 13e41e04 13e3c3e2 13e3cae6 000001f4 2015-10-28 18:14:26 Oct 28 18:13:16 alpine25 kern.alert kernel: [8048017.877462] grsec: From 10.252.15.57: bruteforce prevention initiated for the next 30 minutes or until service restarted, stalling each fork 30 seconds. Please investigate the crash report for /usr/sbin/mini_httpd[mini_htt 2015-10-28 18:18:11 this problem started relatively recently, but not sure when 2015-10-28 18:19:04 ncopa: ^^ problem with PAX? 2015-10-28 18:43:35 just got a different failure for the same usecase: 2015-10-28 18:43:36 Oct 28 18:42:15 alpine25 kern.info kernel: [ 1602.944849] mini_httpd[1569]: segfault at 8 ip 4caeab15 sp 5ae1fa60 error 6 in ld-musl-i386.so.1[4cac7000+82000] 2015-10-28 18:43:36 Oct 28 18:42:15 alpine25 kern.alert kernel: [ 1602.945790] grsec: From 10.252.15.57: Segmentation fault occurred at 00000008 in /usr/sbin/mini_httpd[mini_httpd:1569] uid/euid:65534/65534 gid/egid:65534/65534, parent /usr/sbin/mini_httpd[mini_httpd:1562] uid/euid:65534/655 2015-10-28 18:43:36 Oct 28 18:42:15 alpine25 kern.alert kernel: [ 1602.945836] grsec: From 10.252.15.57: bruteforce prevention initiated for the next 30 minutes or until service restarted, stalling each fork 30 seconds. Please investigate the crash report for /usr/sbin/mini_httpd[mini_httpd 2015-10-28 18:43:40 Oct 28 18:43:00 alpine25 cron.info crond[1288]: USER root pid 1572 cmd run-parts /etc/periodic/1min 2015-10-28 18:44:04 ACTION is confused 2015-10-28 18:44:59 ACTION started another VBox run-from-RAM box, and ACF works fine with latest packages 2015-10-28 18:45:16 from 3.2 repo 2015-10-28 18:46:58 qemu_x86_defconfig on current master build fails with 'genext2fs: couldn't allocate a block (no free space)' :-/ 2015-10-28 18:47:48 sorry, wrong channel :-/ 2015-10-28 18:47:59 this should go to #buildroot 2015-10-28 19:50:22 fabled: With the latest openjdk8 package I get the error 'Fatal Error: Unable to find package java.lang in classpath or bootclasspath' when invoking javac…did you notice this? 2015-10-28 19:57:04 yes, i noticed it recently. not sure what causes it 2015-10-28 19:57:17 it seems to have happened with openjdk8 all along 2015-10-28 19:57:38 probably package missing some file, or some environment variable/path is wrong 2015-10-28 19:59:32 need to look at it later. off to sleep now. 2015-10-28 19:59:52 i'll be next two days more or less afk. attending t2.fi 2015-10-28 20:00:11 fabled: have fun 2015-10-28 20:01:21 thanks 2015-10-28 20:01:26 ttyl 2015-10-28 20:27:39 can anyone recommend sane owncloud provider or is willing to lend me an account? I pretty much need just the calendar 2015-10-28 20:29:00 barthalion: sure, i can set you one up in the morning 2015-10-28 20:29:17 don't fancy self hosting? 2015-10-28 20:31:17 great, thanks 2015-10-28 20:31:26 yeah, I kind of lost my will for that 2015-10-28 20:32:10 I run syncthing though, but it's a no-brainer 2015-10-28 20:41:06 Everytime I try owncloud - pretty much since their first release - I always end up dumping it because of all the bugs in the core components 2015-10-28 20:41:17 is that any better now ? 2015-10-28 20:44:22 oh, I hope so 2015-10-28 20:44:42 gnome is silly and doesn't allow to add normal caldav server like radicale 2015-10-28 20:44:55 making me unhappy 2015-10-28 20:46:42 i heard good things about seafile, but it's file sync only 2015-10-28 20:46:56 yeah seafile is really neat 2015-10-28 20:46:59 just works 2015-10-28 20:49:48 with ios and android clients 2015-10-28 20:49:51 yeah, I shied away from it because it lacks postgres support 2015-10-28 20:50:18 the owncloud client for android really sucks, it's pretty much useless 2015-10-28 20:51:00 for calendar I was looking into zarafa, but it proved too difficult for me to port it to musl 2015-10-28 20:51:33 zarafa is not fun to use imo 2015-10-28 20:52:13 I am using zimbra for years, but trying to migrate to alpine/arm 2015-10-28 20:52:14 unless you require activesync or whats it called 2015-10-28 20:52:18 so zimbta is out 2015-10-28 20:52:34 activesync is handy with android 2015-10-28 20:52:53 so maybe kolab? 2015-10-28 20:53:27 i have basically given up on groupwares, the all suck to some degree 2015-10-28 20:54:52 I know, just need one that sucks less and runs on musl 2015-10-28 20:59:30 does kolab run on non-centos systems? 2015-10-28 20:59:43 they used to support only CentOS/RHEL few years ago 2015-10-28 21:00:37 I don't know, I will have to try to build it 2015-10-28 21:03:32 owncloud works if you avoid their webclients 2015-10-28 22:07:08 ah, forget about groupware, just found out that there is zpush for roundcube, with rc plugins for addresbook/calendar, these are all I need 2015-10-29 01:32:56 any thougths on http://www.citadel.org/doku.php 2015-10-29 07:01:55 morning 2015-10-29 07:02:52 tdtrask: pax and grsecurity will stall a crashing process that autorestarts 2015-10-29 07:03:01 to prevent prute force attachs 2015-10-29 07:09:41 ncopa: morning 2015-10-29 07:16:41 ncopa can that be prevented " pax and grsecurity will stall a crashing process that autorestarts" with paxflags? 2015-10-29 07:16:59 crow: i dont know 2015-10-29 07:17:28 crow 2015-10-29 07:17:29 you can 2015-10-29 07:17:36 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Grsecurity/Appendix/Grsecurity_and_PaX_Configuration_Options#Deter_exploit_bruteforcing 2015-10-29 07:17:44 kernel.grsecurity.deter_bruteforce 2015-10-29 07:18:16 echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/grsecurity/deter_bruteforce 2015-10-29 07:18:42 i should start charge people for googling things for them :) 2015-10-29 07:26:06 lmgtfy.com 2015-10-29 07:26:25 google grsecurity+bruteforce 2015-10-29 07:26:54 tdtrask, crow you should fix the application that crashes 2015-10-29 07:38:38 ncopa or not use it :D 2015-10-29 07:39:12 yeah 2015-10-29 07:43:10 umh. It's me, or looks that this difference between main and community is creating mess? 2015-10-29 07:43:41 And is not fully clear? 2015-10-29 07:50:08 ha: systemd people are not willing to play nice with the rest of the world. 2015-10-29 07:50:10 http://git.busybox.net/busybox/commit/?id=accd9eeb719916da974584b33b1aeced5f3bb346 2015-10-29 07:53:05 wtf 2015-10-29 08:10:56 how sad... 2015-10-29 08:15:27 systemd is morphing Linux into Windows 2015-10-29 08:17:14 we know systemd is sad, but the reponce is not much better. 2015-10-29 08:27:36 morning 2015-10-29 08:30:46 'ning 2015-10-29 09:27:33 what is the procedure for joining the devel mailing list if the server of my mail provider (1&1, huge provider in germany) is spam blocked? 2015-10-29 09:32:27 oh 1and1 2015-10-29 09:33:00 can't someone add you manually? 2015-10-29 09:33:25 LeSpocky: can you give me your email addr in private and I'll add you 2015-10-29 09:34:27 I really really like golang 2015-10-29 09:34:34 that, or stop supporting things like SPF and PBF, if it's envisionable 2015-10-29 09:34:42 PBL* 2015-10-29 09:37:44 ncopa: thank you :-) 2015-10-29 09:44:39 skarnet: are you familiar with busybox ash code? 2015-10-29 09:44:44 its messy... 2015-10-29 09:45:02 ncopa: no, but if you have a specific question, I can try answering it 2015-10-29 09:45:19 regression in busybox 1.24.1 ash 2015-10-29 09:45:25 i send to busybox mailing list 2015-10-29 09:45:39 and there was informative response on similar issue (and fix) in dash 2015-10-29 09:48:34 ew 2015-10-29 09:48:49 thats why i asked if you were familiar :) 2015-10-29 09:49:02 lots of global vars 2015-10-29 09:49:34 no, my ew relates to "Disabling the CONFIG_UNICODE_SUPPORT makes the problem disappear" 2015-10-29 09:49:44 so it's probably something in unicode character handling 2015-10-29 09:49:46 :) 2015-10-29 09:50:00 and I'm *not* familiar with those 2015-10-29 09:50:20 ok forget it then 2015-10-29 09:50:25 i'll figure it out 2015-10-29 09:50:30 your best bet is probably to lock up Denys until he answers you 2015-10-29 09:50:31 and let me double check that unicode thing 2015-10-29 09:50:48 and do a hackish workaround in the meantime 2015-10-29 09:50:51 i might have done something wrong 2015-10-29 09:51:32 no, if you bisected a commit that broke it, that's a bug somewhere 2015-10-29 09:51:38 it actually does not build without unicode 2015-10-29 09:51:42 yes its a bug 2015-10-29 09:51:53 its the "Disabling the CONFIG_UNICODE_SUPPORT makes the problem disappear" i want doublecheck 2015-10-29 09:52:00 but is the bug in bb, or in musl 2015-10-29 09:52:08 i think bb 2015-10-29 09:52:43 probability says you're right 2015-10-29 09:53:14 drats 2015-10-29 09:53:32 CONFIG_UNICODE_SUPPORT is irrelevant 2015-10-29 09:53:34 argh 2015-10-29 09:53:54 well that's kinda a relief 2015-10-29 09:54:20 the bug is probably not in the string functions then 2015-10-29 09:55:45 + if (heredoclist) { 2015-10-29 09:55:45 + raise_error_unexpected_syntax(-1); 2015-10-29 09:55:45 + } 2015-10-29 09:56:16 if (heredoclist && ! tbh Denys would prob. fix that in a minute, the problem is grabbing his attention 2015-10-29 09:57:51 so if you can hack quote() until he comes nearby, that may be the faster solution :) 2015-10-29 10:18:33 ncopa: it's for the musl configure script, right? as long as you're not installing musl in a demented location with special chars in it, you can just omit using the quote() function 2015-10-29 10:24:50 its triggered by musl configure script 2015-10-29 10:24:56 but there might be other stuff that breaks too 2015-10-29 10:25:17 i could probably also temp add bash ... 2015-10-29 11:03:24 when I built the new skarnet.org server in 2013, busybox ash wasn't enough to actually build stuff, it was breaking in a lot of ways. I installed zsh to do it all; that worked fine, and I didn't go back 2015-10-29 11:03:51 but if it has changed and bb ash is now *almost* able to build... 2015-10-29 11:05:16 (the aboriginal toolchains include a static bash, precisely because bb isn't doing the job. It will be some time before bb sh is able to build gcc. :)) 2015-10-29 11:21:13 ncopa: just got a mail from the alpine devel list :-) 2015-10-29 11:35:29 ncopa: someone got a fix for the ash bug :) 2015-10-29 11:51:04 ha 2015-10-29 11:51:08 i am working on the same 2015-10-29 11:51:13 the patch it not complete 2015-10-29 11:59:15 03:50 <@ncopa> http://git.busybox.net/busybox/commit/?id=accd9eeb719916da974584b33b1aeced5f3bb346 2015-10-29 11:59:18 wait 2015-10-29 11:59:21 what happened 2015-10-29 11:59:34 i have no idea 2015-10-29 12:01:06 presumably Denys had to fight against Yet Another Systemd Brainlessness somewhere, and it tipped him over 2015-10-29 12:01:51 there's only so much a man can tolerate :P 2015-10-29 12:03:36 I mean 2015-10-29 12:03:37 it's true 2015-10-29 12:03:40 basically 2015-10-29 12:03:57 but that's p non sequitur 2015-10-29 12:04:21 yes. That's why I suspect a flash of temper. 2015-10-29 12:24:35 i sent a "better" patch 2015-10-29 12:54:16 libgusb-dev-0.1.6-r2 requires udev-dev, which is missing from the edge repos 2015-10-29 12:55:10 uedev-dev 2015-10-29 12:55:15 no 2015-10-29 12:55:18 eudev-dev 2015-10-29 12:56:39 can you rebuild libgusb with eudev-dev? 2015-10-29 12:57:06 there is a typo in udev APKBUILD file too 2015-10-29 12:57:27 pkgdesc="Compatility package. Use udev instead" 2015-10-29 13:17:35 kaniini: do we still need/want the xen's init-xenstore-domain.patch? 2015-10-29 13:17:56 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/tree/main/xen/init-xenstore-domain.patch 2015-10-29 13:18:44 http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/log/main/xen/init-xenstore-domain.patch 2015-10-29 13:20:55 i suppose we do 2015-10-29 13:48:28 good morning 2015-10-29 14:18:19 xen 4.6 is coming up 2015-10-29 14:18:30 i also move webkitgt to community 2015-10-29 14:18:33 its horrible 2015-10-29 14:18:52 there are like 3 differente APIs for 2 different gtk versions 2015-10-29 14:18:56 so 6 builds 2015-10-29 14:19:02 /o\ 2015-10-29 14:28:24 ncopa: basically everything web/rendering engine related is horrible 2015-10-29 14:28:42 yeah 2015-10-29 14:28:43 i noticed 2015-10-29 14:30:05 ncopa: i think it way you who retweetet this: https://twitter.com/txustice/status/659394161154609153 2015-10-29 14:30:11 its soooo true 2015-10-29 14:30:58 am I the only one thinking 20kLoC for lua is still too much? :P 2015-10-29 14:32:21 well 2015-10-29 14:32:23 compiler 2015-10-29 14:32:28 vm 2015-10-29 14:32:31 and stdlib 2015-10-29 14:32:48 lua ~300kb 2015-10-29 14:32:55 python is ~40MB 2015-10-29 14:32:56 everything over 1000 lines of code is too big to maintain 2015-10-29 14:32:59 :) 2015-10-29 14:33:50 it is :P 2015-10-29 14:55:30 ncopa: yes probably 2015-10-29 14:57:09 i have already rebased it 2015-10-29 14:57:25 its in my push queue 2015-10-29 15:19:43 ncopa: you are moving claws to community? 2015-10-29 15:22:08 yes 2015-10-29 15:22:19 due to the webkitgtk dep 2015-10-29 15:22:26 i dont want webkitgtk in main 2015-10-29 15:22:48 i agree ... but i dont want webkit* at all to use claws 2015-10-29 15:22:58 i think its a plugin 2015-10-29 15:23:06 so only buildtime dep 2015-10-29 15:23:16 ah, okay 2015-10-29 15:23:23 then i dont mind :) 2015-10-29 15:23:32 but as a hard dependency i would cry 2015-10-29 15:23:43 fucking webkit shit ... its bigger than my kernel ... 2015-10-29 15:25:49 hm 2015-10-29 15:26:53 abuild does not handle circular deps well 2015-10-29 15:27:09 that is font-utils-dev depends on font-utils 2015-10-29 15:27:17 so it ends up in makedepends 2015-10-29 15:32:04 10:28 < leo-unglaub> ncopa: basically everything web/rendering engine related is horrible 2015-10-29 15:32:10 can't we simplify to "everything is horrible" 2015-10-29 15:32:31 ammunta: sadly yes .... 2015-10-29 15:44:52 can we put _builddir="$srcdir"/$pkgname-$pkgver in newapkbuild? we have to set _builddir every time, and 99% of the time it's "$srcdir"/$pkgname-$pkgver for me anyway 2015-10-29 15:45:05 yeah 2015-10-29 15:45:07 good idea 2015-10-29 16:00:24 clandmeter: you about? https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages <- doesn't look healthy 2015-10-29 16:03:09 oh dear 2015-10-29 16:09:03 ncopa: Thanks for your comments on ACF / PAX. I found the problem. Turns out I was using the wrong Lua binary. So, it was only an issue on my devel box, not for released packages. 2015-10-29 16:10:04 :) 2015-10-29 16:27:13 ScrumpyJack: thx 2015-10-29 16:27:30 seems there is something weird in xen pkg 2015-10-29 16:28:37 ncopa: did someting change in abuild? 2015-10-29 16:33:01 ncopa: ping 2015-10-29 16:34:22 hi 2015-10-29 16:34:29 found it 2015-10-29 16:34:36 busybox ash is broken 2015-10-29 16:34:45 xen puts a file in / 2015-10-29 16:34:50 i think thats the issue 2015-10-29 16:34:57 no other pkg puts any file in / 2015-10-29 16:35:15 ok? 2015-10-29 16:35:26 that means there is no path 2015-10-29 16:35:40 so my json script gets wacko 2015-10-29 16:36:11 interesting 2015-10-29 16:36:39 didnt care enough to fix it in the first place, cause i thought it couldnt happen. 2015-10-29 16:37:01 it is a bug in xen pkg too 2015-10-29 16:37:02 i think 2015-10-29 16:37:16 but you should fix your pkgs.a.o app 2015-10-29 16:37:21 init-xenstore-domain 2015-10-29 16:37:28 yeah 2015-10-29 16:37:34 i think i know why it happens 2015-10-29 16:37:39 i rebased that patch 2015-10-29 16:37:44 but i need to run now 2015-10-29 16:37:50 i remeber abuild complained if you put something in / 2015-10-29 16:37:53 not sure though 2015-10-29 16:38:02 go run 2015-10-29 16:38:06 forest 2015-10-29 16:38:17 samehere 2015-10-29 16:48:22 gotta go 2015-10-29 16:48:23 see u 2015-10-29 17:54:09 anyone familiar with luajit ffi? 2015-10-29 17:55:42 I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how construct a char ** from a table of strings 2015-10-29 18:07:58 it know lua-turbo uses it, but thats all i know about it. 2015-10-29 18:09:21 I'm basically trying to call execvp and having it explode at me because strings orz 2015-10-29 18:44:37 https://gist.github.com/muhmuhten/16fd0b3c87b6a8be6edf is there anything obviously wrong with 2015-10-29 19:35:39 well I guess I could also just unpack and execlp 2015-10-30 07:11:18 ncopa, how's that new aports's patches have been committed directly on main? %790-800 2015-10-30 07:23:31 happy friday! 2015-10-30 07:24:57 fcolista: i didnt notice it was main 2015-10-30 07:24:59 sorry 2015-10-30 07:25:08 ah ok 2015-10-30 07:25:09 my bad 2015-10-30 07:25:24 nevermind, just wondering if something changed with the commmunity introduction :) 2015-10-30 07:25:44 no, i just didnt pay enough attention 2015-10-30 07:25:47 ncopa: how's the job hunting? 2015-10-30 07:26:00 part-time is difficult 2015-10-30 07:26:18 i got invited to interview, but when when telling i want part time i lost it :-/ 2015-10-30 07:27:11 :( 2015-10-30 08:47:37 the general public has the impression that part timers are losers 2015-10-30 08:52:04 ncopa: Here in Belgium there are some legal construct to work part time when getting hired for a full time job, don't know if your country has something similar 2015-10-30 08:52:44 dunno 2015-10-30 08:52:53 what i'd like is remote and parttime 2015-10-30 08:52:57 so i can work from home 2015-10-30 08:53:22 that means i could work for any company in any country 2015-10-30 08:54:07 That's more difficult 2015-10-30 08:54:49 at least here in western europe 2015-10-30 08:54:52 :( 2015-10-30 08:57:38 i've applied %803 2015-10-30 08:57:39 http://sprunge.us/EVWT 2015-10-30 08:57:46 this is the output of checkapk 2015-10-30 08:57:54 ncopa: maybe becoming independent consultant and work on project basis? 2015-10-30 08:58:25 it changes modules path 2015-10-30 08:59:17 ncopa: i guess your bootstrap generates another batch of failures? do we have a list so we can help? 2015-10-30 09:01:09 i'm going to merge it, if someone does not have any in contrary. 2015-10-30 09:01:50 modules location moved? 2015-10-30 09:02:38 yes 2015-10-30 09:02:45 why? 2015-10-30 09:02:55 need rebuild ever apache thirpary module 2015-10-30 09:02:56 upstream changed 2015-10-30 09:02:59 ok 2015-10-30 09:03:20 + checkpath --directory $(dirname $PIDFILE) 2015-10-30 09:03:35 use ${PIDFILE%/.*} 2015-10-30 09:03:58 -ServerRoot "/var/www" 2015-10-30 09:03:58 +ServerRoot "/usr/lib/apache2" 2015-10-30 09:04:00 why? 2015-10-30 09:04:08 that's what i was wondering too. 2015-10-30 09:04:12 i am not happy with that 2015-10-30 09:04:21 ServerRoot directive is wrong imho 2015-10-30 09:04:29 what does other distr do? 2015-10-30 09:04:30 i think so too 2015-10-30 09:04:50 lots of changes that will break things without good explanation why 2015-10-30 09:04:55 might be its worth it 2015-10-30 09:04:59 but we need know why 2015-10-30 09:05:22 i would also prefer separate the commits 2015-10-30 09:05:30 move the dirs around 2015-10-30 09:05:37 and upgrade as separate 2015-10-30 09:06:12 +ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "/var/www/localhost/cgi-bin/" 2015-10-30 09:06:17 that's the same lighttpd has 2015-10-30 09:13:18 wth, ServerRoot "/usr/lib/apache2 2015-10-30 09:14:06 /usr/share/apache2 is understandable, but lib, seriously? 2015-10-30 09:18:32 +1 xming 2015-10-30 09:20:04 but okay no one uses stock apache config 2015-10-30 09:25:39 scriptalias looks good 2015-10-30 09:26:03 clandmeter: you can look for x86/x86_64 build error in #alpine-commits 2015-10-30 09:26:08 the log url should work for those 2015-10-30 09:26:13 just not for armhf 2015-10-30 09:26:25 also 2015-10-30 09:26:35 we should fix the issues on bugs.a.o 2015-10-30 09:37:07 ncopa: its a bit clutterd, no way to have a list? 2015-10-30 09:40:54 speaking about moving around, gentoo moved top from /usr/bin to /bin, grrr 2015-10-30 09:48:50 please git pull git://git.alpinelinux.org/user/fab/aports 2015-10-30 09:48:58 just some flask stuff 2015-10-30 10:11:00 fcolista: kunkku had some questions abou apache packaging iirc 2015-10-30 10:11:03 to mailing list 2015-10-30 10:18:10 clandmeter: low hanging fruit: for i in */APKBUILD; do (cd ${i%/*} && abuild -q sanitycheck); done 2015-10-30 10:23:08 :) 2015-10-30 10:23:22 good, only a few popup 2015-10-30 10:28:46 stuff like #4703 seems also relatively simple to fix 2015-10-30 10:29:11 ncopa: did you see my email? 2015-10-30 10:30:53 i saw 2015-10-30 10:30:54 nice 2015-10-30 10:31:46 i got a new reply 2015-10-30 10:32:09 That will allow you to run 2 servers with 150GB SSD disk on each. 2015-10-30 10:32:21 \o/ 2015-10-30 10:38:26 wow 2015-10-30 10:38:38 i suggest we move primary mirror to there 2015-10-30 10:38:44 rsync.a.o 2015-10-30 10:38:53 150 is not enough 2015-10-30 10:38:59 atleast not for our current mirror 2015-10-30 10:39:11 but im writing an email now. 2015-10-30 10:39:15 to somebody else 2015-10-30 10:40:45 we can probably remove the old releases 2015-10-30 10:42:33 you will have 50G on root, and you can mount an additional 100G 2015-10-30 10:42:56 we need very little root 2015-10-30 10:42:57 :) 2015-10-30 10:43:04 but we might need swap 2015-10-30 10:43:30 well, its limits us that we need to think how we would mount the additional space 2015-10-30 10:43:53 anyway, first lets wait if i get a reply from my new eamil. 2015-10-30 10:45:01 i purged v2.6 release candidate iso images 2015-10-30 10:45:21 saved 8-10G or so 2015-10-30 10:55:48 i guess if the builders are ready with 3.3, we will even more to purge 2015-10-30 10:59:17 we can probably purge v2.3 and v2.4 2015-10-30 11:04:06 can't you purge all those outdated minors and just keep latest of the major? 2015-10-30 11:58:16 ncopa: I think we could move mpv to community 2015-10-30 11:58:32 I don't think it has any kind of LTS 2015-10-30 11:58:53 and whoever is using alpine on desktop, I guess he/she's gonna upgrade rather soon after new release 2015-10-30 12:19:48 i'm trying to build my first package with python waf, and it's failed. I have never built one before so i have no idea how to troubleshoot it 2015-10-30 12:22:24 does this mean anything to anyone? http://tpaste.us/3Mz9 2015-10-30 12:23:28 hmm, i see arch have a patch called ListStore.patch 2015-10-30 12:25:51 not waf issue, it's vala calling ambigious function 2015-10-30 12:26:45 yes, i realise it's not waf. I said it's my first build with waf 2015-10-30 12:26:48 so it's me :) 2015-10-30 12:27:34 you need to patch it :D 2015-10-30 12:28:24 it's been patched at source, but not released 2015-10-30 12:28:25 https://github.com/p12tic/libdesktop-agnostic/commit/226501370eb1c68d7c39a8c12e49dd22d2f7b4f2 2015-10-30 12:28:42 i'll open an issue to get a git release tag 2015-10-30 12:40:26 barthalion: ok. 2015-10-30 12:41:50 oh 2015-10-30 12:41:59 nginx 2015-10-30 12:42:11 there are like 3 diffrent nginx variants 2015-10-30 12:42:26 we could have a separate nginx-initd subpkg 2015-10-30 12:42:34 which they all depend on 2015-10-30 12:43:10 i dont know if we could build all nginx flavors from same APKBUILD 2015-10-30 12:43:18 ah 2015-10-30 12:43:21 i already did that 2015-10-30 13:19:37 hey :) 2015-10-30 13:37:18 ncopa: who manages the wiki? 2015-10-30 15:43:44 clandmeter: I thought it was you… 2015-10-30 15:54:53 barthalion: nope, else it would be a bit faster :p 2015-10-30 16:11:52 i want to fix that issue when you edit your recent data, it takes it from previous cache. its pissing me off. 2015-10-30 20:25:19 whats wth community/davfs and testing/davfs ? 2015-10-30 20:25:46 move to community from testing then add anew in testing/ ;) 2015-10-30 20:27:04 davfs2 2015-10-30 21:12:26 vkris: lol 2015-10-30 21:12:30 i didnt know it exists 2015-10-30 21:13:06 its happend before because of stuff in community 2015-10-30 22:51:11 how many flavours of nginx do we have anyway